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Tayshaun Prince thinks Lawrence Frank should’ve benched him, other starters sooner vs. Magic

Well, we all had to know this would be coming sooner or later. Via Vince Ellis of the Detroit Free Press, Tayshaun Prince had some constructive criticism for the coaching staff after the Pistons’ debacle against Orlando Wednesday:

But Tayshaun Prince openly wondered afterward why Frank didn’t respond quicker with substitutions when it was obvious Prince and the rest of the starting five didn’t have it.

“If I was coach, I would have made the decision sooner than what he did,” Prince said in the Amway Center visitors’ locker room. “Know what I mean?

“6-0 run, call time-out. Bam, bam and we come back out and nothing happens the second time. Bam,” Prince said while snapping his fingers for emphasis.

I definitely do know what you mean, Mr. Prince. That’s certainly not shades of ‘buffoonery’ just yet, but Prince is not a patient guy. If the team keeps playing poorly, I think we can expect more commentary from him as the season progresses. The team is almost replaying the John Kuester era, except from the opposite extreme. Kuester famously (and annoyingly) mixed and matched his rotation so often that his combinations rarely ever got a chance to start working or failing before he was already changing them up again. He was a chronic tinkerer. Frank’s rotations are so set in stone that the only significant change he’s made in two years came about when Rodney Stuckey essentially had to beg his way out of the starting lineup.

There is a middle ground there somewhere, I think.

30 Comments

  • Nov 22, 201210:14 pm
    by Accelerator

    Reply

    Buffoonery!

  • Nov 22, 201211:03 pm
    by Jodi Jezz

    Reply

    Frank is a loser and needs to be fired ASAP…Dumars should get Stan Van Gundy on the phone and see if he’s open to coaching our team…
     

    • Nov 22, 201211:27 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      David Stern will make sure SVG never works in the NBA again.

      • Nov 23, 20124:40 am
        by Jakob Eich

        Reply

        Why would Stern do that?

      • Nov 23, 20126:52 am
        by swish22

        Reply

        Stern also dislikes JVG for his calling the officials out numerous times. Stern like the malcontents left over from the philly debacle all need to go! My christmas wish list. Hopefully Joe D. can find a seat also.

    • Nov 23, 20127:12 am
      by swish22

      Reply

      Franks winning percentage is very similar to your percentage on being right. I say banish jodi for usually being wrong. Some times I just wanna scream “jeeeez; You’re still advocating Joe D. to make a decision. That alone should be grounds for a 30 day banishment. Lawrence didn’t assemble this chemistry less squad and as Bill Parcells once said if youre doing the cooking you should at least help with the grocery list. I do feel LF has struggled big time so far but the roster is still a mess. If its correct that Joe D wanted Woodson and Gores LF and the players were told this by Joe D. it totally undermines the current situation. Joe and Tay are very close making me wonder if he at least discussed that with him our supposed leader.

    • Nov 23, 20129:34 am
      by Piston Craig

      Reply

      I would support an SVG hiring 100%. He knows how to develop big men. Larry Frank simply isn’t an NBA caliber coach.

  • Nov 22, 201211:06 pm
    by Joe Dumars

    Reply

    I think it might be hard to find a middle ground considering the roster is a mess.

  • Nov 22, 201211:12 pm
    by AU Examiner

    Reply

    It’s not my fault.
     
    I’m only the veteran / team leader and mentor of this team.
     
    It’s the “coach’s fault” we’re crap.

    • Nov 23, 20128:44 am
      by Guus

      Reply

      Exactly! 

      I hate these passive aggressive comments by Tay! He makes it look like he’s taking the blame saying the starters sucked, all the while blaming LF for the loss by saying he didn’t yank them soon enough. He is undermining his team, and not even head on (in house), but in a sneaky, disguised way through the media. I downright loathe behavior like that! He’s not patient, he’s no veteran leader, he’s merely a veteran, and an easily disgruntled one at that. Don’t get me wrong, I love Tay for what he meant for the ‘goin’ to work’-era, but it just seems like everybody would be so much happier and better off if Tay were playing for a contender. But with his current contract, who could afford him? He’s practically untradeable: bad to mediocre teams don’t want him (so why would we…?) and good to great teams don’t want him at that price… And for that we have Dumars to blame. I love him, he once built a great team, but my patience is running out…

      Two Eurocents from the Netherlands (slightly more valuable than the dollar at the moment, hence the length :P)

  • Nov 22, 201211:43 pm
    by Big Rick

    Reply

    We got embarrased again against Orlando, so of course finger pointing would start. Man, Tayshawn needs keep things in house and not vent to the media.

  • Nov 22, 201211:50 pm
    by Corey

    Reply

    Thank god this team has veteran leadership.

  • Nov 23, 201212:15 am
    by Day and Knight

    Reply

    Breaking news: this team is headed nowhere fast. Why? Cause coach won’t make changes to the lineup. Any coach would have done something after we lost the first what, 6-7 games of the season? Frank is a joke! Washington is the only team worst than us (record wise…with Wall they’re better) and they made changes to the lineup. The Suns just made changes. The Jazz made changes as well. Both teams are better than us and even their coach made changes cause they didn’t like the direction of their team. Orlando made changes and they just got finished kickin our ass!

    Coach Frank<Mike Brown…and that is sad

    fire this guy! 

    • Nov 23, 201212:20 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      It’s pointless to fire the coach unless you are going to do something about the guy hiring the coaches here.

      • Nov 23, 201212:25 am
        by Day and Knight

        Reply

        True. Plus I think Dumars wanted Woodson and Gores wanted Frank so unless Gores is willing to admit he made a huge mistake (Woodson is off to a great start in New York) I can still see Frank finishing the season here. I do hope he gets the boot though…

  • Nov 23, 20121:45 am
    by Mike

    Reply

    Open letter to Tom Gore.
     
    A little Piston history reminder to help you make one or two important decisions.
     
    Bill Davidson bought the Pistons about 1975 and by about 1979 had learned enough to know that he needed someone around him that truely could evaluate good basketball talent.
     
    Mr Davidson had the wisdom to hire Jack McCluskey in 1979.  Jack not only gained the reputation an astute judge of basketball talent but he also had the ability to get other teams to give it up for little in return.  He was nick named Trader Jack.
     
    Trader Jack had the foresight to:
     
    1981/ 82 drafted Isiah Thomas
    1983 hire as Head Coach Chuck Daly
    1982 Trade two lessor talents for Bill Lambeer
    1985 Draft Joe Dumars late in the first round
    1986 Draft Dennis Rodman in the second round
    1986 Trade Adrian Dantley for Mark Aguirre (thus obtaining both the #1, and #2 pics in the excellent 1981 draft)
     
    Trader Jack’s teams went on to:
     
    Make progress – get better and better from 1980 until 1991
    Make the playoffs from 1984 to 1992.
    Went to 3 NBA Finals – Won 2 – Should have went to a 4th NBA Final in 1986 except for one lazy Isiah pass against Boston in Game 6 of the NBA Conference finals.
    Beat Michael Jordan for the first 5 years of Michael’s career despite a good supporting cast in Chicago.  
     
    In fact the Pistons are the only team that had a winning playoff record against – GET THIS, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, and Michael Jordan.  That accomplishment is the Pistons and Jack’s biggest accomplishment ever.  And, in the history of the entire NBA – it’s way way up there in terms of accomplishments.
     
    And oh BTW Tom, Jack accomplished all this on a shoe string.  Mr Davidson was known to be tight fisted.  Trader Jack didn’t have the luxury of making 20 bad major decisions and 3 or 4 good ones, he would have been fired long before that…
     
    Tom Gore.  Did you know Jack McCloskey is still alive?  You might want to ask him, who he would hire as head coach and GM.  At least get his opinion.

    A Piston Fan Since The Early 60s… 

  • Nov 23, 20122:24 am
    by Vince

    Reply

    Was going to happen sooner or later. Didn’t watch the game, happy I didn’t, the box score and the comments here were enough for me to be revolted by the poor performance these Pistons have been churning out.

    Its not only Pistons fans who’ve seen how terrible we’ve been playing, NBA and sports beat writers have been writing articles about how Frank’s lineups and rotations are wack. They’re as surprised as us to see Maxiell still starting over Drummond – contract year or not ‘Dre is killing him. They’re as surprised as us that English has done a disappearing act after he had a promising start. They’re as surprised as us that this promising squad is playing like absolute crap. 

    On paper we’re better than a 2-10 team. On paper we have a very interesting group of players that could really have an impact on the league, but they’re not being used to their full potential. Our coach is supposed to be a defensive guru. Hey we don’t have the best players, but if he was any good, would we be sitting pretty at 2-10? So many times I’ve seen them collapse defensively and offensively late in games and Frank is too slow to make a change. It happened last year, its happening this year. For how many more years is this team going to dwell in the cellars of the L and be every other team’s punching bag. 

    This is ridiculous. Fans can see it, reporters can see it, the League can see it, the players can see it. But can Management and Frank? No.  Sick of this team being the laughing stock of the NBA. The Charlotte Bobcats have a better record then us. Let that sink in.

  • Nov 23, 20123:11 am
    by Mel

    Reply

    Hey Mike great letter, you know Tom Gore’s has a Face Book account? That would be a perfect message to send him. Heck I’m willing to send him a damn message too. It couldn’t hurt, I know it would surprise him though.LOL And Maybe thats what he needs, cause I was damn surprise we would have a worst record than the Bobcats. Just a thought.   

  • Nov 23, 20124:09 am
    by domnick

    Reply

    trade tayshaun prince

  • Nov 23, 20124:11 am
    by domnick

    Reply

    you know what?… the last three coaches of Detroit were all BALD…

    BALD = BAD LUCK!

    Michael Curry = NO HAIR
    JOHN CUESTER = WHITE SEMI-BALD
    Lawrence Frank = BLONDE SEMI-BALD

  • Nov 23, 20124:58 am
    by Jakob Eich

    Reply

    Alright, what do you people want. With Kuester we complained endlessly about how much he switched up the starting line-up. In Washington Coach Wittman is publicly scrutinized for not knowing who to play, at least we have a starting line-up. Except for the few minutes Andre Drummon receives, I doubt he would make the team much better for now, and maybe even more mistake-prone. Of course, for the long-run it is better to let him play now, but the season is still young and we do not know what happens in practice. Frank is a good coach, so we should give him some time. What we should really worry about is what happens with Monroe if we keep on playing this badly. You think he’ll re-sign with the team if we keep on losing? I highly doubt it, he could be a great pick-up for a contending team, or a team on the verge. For now we are on the way to acquire another high lottery-pick which is not all that bad. Joe Dumars has made alright decisions lately, but he is missing the great ones. I hope this team pulls itself together.

  • Nov 23, 20124:58 am
    by the z

    Reply

    Why are the pistons so damn reluctant to make a trade? Is it that our players have absolutely no value or where does this come from? We are stuck with mediocre veterans that have no drive to make a difference at all. I don’t see any passion, less and less hustle, just dull play. At least they could lose kicking and screaming but hell no. I see indifference, which makes me sick. This should be a passionate and emotional game played by confident competitors. Just my 2 cents…

  • Nov 23, 20124:59 am
    by Jakob Eich

    Reply

    Also, why is Tay still around? I love him dearly for all he had done for this franchise, but he should play for a competitor like Sheed, Chauncey, and Rip. Additionally, he is just not helping, even if he is not hurting the team right now…..

  • Nov 23, 20127:46 am
    by ryan

    Reply

    I would be interested to see how player-coach Tayshaun Prince handled things.

  • Nov 23, 20129:36 am
    by bugsygod

    Reply

    1. Prince ,although in the media is not the best way to say it, told the truth.  I thought the same thing when orlando was making a run, but no sub the entire starting 5…duh.  leave monroe, singler in bring drummond, stuckey, jjorbynum in.  when you sub the entire 5 it is almost a give up situation and its only the 3rd q.  those starters coming off probably felt embarrased as well.  when you break down the difference between 1st q & 3rd q, we stopped giving the ball down low or high post to monroe and just started shooting jumpers.  this is when coach stops play and sets up a specific play for monroe down low to get off the zero.  If you look at all the games where were giving up leads, its not really an energy thing its an execution and like prince said “plays at the rim or free throw opportunities”.  i remember stuckey loving frank last year, because “if we play good d, we can do what we want on offense”.  i think that play should be out the door
    2. Frank is so DAMN inflexible, he has an attitude, his way is the right way and if you play this way we will win.  well sorry coach, whatever “playing your way” is not working.  the team looks confused on many critical possesions.  and if you notice the after time out or out of bounds plays, regularly lead to poor possesions.  this should be the staple of really good coaches, the after time out play.  That play has nothing to do with energy etc, all about execution.  I was very excited with frank last year, because he did set a line up and rotation, which kuester could not do.  frank made some tough decisions on players and stuck with them last year.  HOWEVER, that was last year, it is your team now frank, you have to make changes on the fly.  To me the biggest thing missing is execution at critical times. 
    3. Frank is “supposed” to be recognized for player developmemt and looking at players on this roster, i think monroe, stuckey,bynum, drummond, singler have all gotten better under frank.  drummond/singler i think are exceeding expectations.  only player who i think has not improved greatly is knight, he seems to be a little stagnant, but playing pg is the toughest position so still may be adjusting which is OK, but as far as a in game coach, x&o coach, making smart adjustments in game coach, just dont see it with frank.  If drummond is rolling and he is the future let him rack up some big minutes those games, then we is off dont play him as much.  But frank has a plan to bring slow and will not ADJUST what so ever.  smh. 
    4. Dumars has always been a hands off GM when it comes to the coaching staff.  He allows too much player public critishm, doesn’t speak out in favor of the coach. He just hands the guy the keys backs away and says have it…for good or better.  This is where DUmars needs to step up.  Pull prince in the office “hey your words are powerful, i need you to choose them wisely”.  Pull frank in the office “hey drummond was rolling the other night why didnt you leave him in or come back with him” frank says ” well joe that was not the plan, we said at the beginning he would get 15-18mins a game and no more” joe says “dammit frank what are you watching? he is playing above our expectations give him some more”, frank “ok”.
    5. next coach…. stan van gundy or jeff van gundy.  proven winners please

    • Nov 23, 201210:06 am
      by Vic

      Reply

      Agreed. 
      Except give us Laimbeer. He knows how to win. 

  • Nov 23, 201210:13 am
    by Vic

    Reply

    You can’t blame Dumars for the Idiotic coaching non-decisions that cause us to lose several winnable games. He has brought way more talent to this team than it had before the Davidson sale, got them the siZe and the shooting they needed. Frank refuses to use it and make the small adjustments needed. 
    Instead he sees things like they are all energy and process problems, subbing entire units when a simple 1 person lineup change could play better because of how they fit. 

  • Nov 23, 20124:16 pm
    by Max

    Reply

    The way Prince is being portrayed is odd because he’s been with the team for like a decade and has made about 3 other, fairly passive aggressive,  comments in that entire period that fit with this latest one.   From my perspective, it is clear that Prince, who spent his first 7 years or so going to the conference finals every season, is frustrated with the losing and coaching decisions and finally let out a fairly innocuous comment about a single rotation decision in a single game.   This is not malcontent or coach killing behavior and at a certain point, I personally don’t even mind the kind of comment he made because I agree with what he said and feel like someone in the organization needs to push Frank out of his curious comfort zone.   Hate on him if you want but who other than Prince or Joe Dumars with the Pistons is more appropriate or qualified to try and make Frank change directions?  Prince is really not just a player for this team but, at this point, almost a senior member of the organization and one who may, much as some may despise the notion, still be the team after Frank is gone. 

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