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Pistons finally play like a true team, win big over Suns

I didn’t plan to make player grades the sole component of so many game reviews this season, but for the most part, once I analyzed each player individually, I had nothing left to add about that game.

The Pistons haven’t been a team as much as they’d been a collection of players.

Guys like Corey Maggette, Charlie Villanueva, Jason Maxiell and Will Bynum seem to be just taking up space until the Pistons dump them this summer. And players who appear integral to the franchise’s futures – Greg Monroe and Andre Drummond – barely play together. Both groups constantly share the court, and there’s no point drawing meaningful conclusions about how they play together.

It’s worth watching the veterans to assess their trade value, and it’s worth watching the young players to track their development. But how the Pistons worked together? Who cares. Half will be gone soon, and the other half will – hopefully – improve a great deal before it’s important to worry about fit.

Tonight, though, the Pistons played like a team. They had 28 assists. Eight players scored at least eight points. Everyone who played more than five minutes was at least +10.

It all added up to a 117-77 victory over the Phoenix Suns – the Pistons’ first 40-point win since 2007.

The Suns, playing their third game in four nights in three different road cities, certainly helped the cause. They trailed the final 34 minutes and by at least 15 points the final 21 minutes. Somewhere along the way, Phoenix gave up and let the Pistons pad their numbers.

But make no mistake, it got that way only  because the Pistons played like a team while the game was in reach. The jumbled mess finally came together, and it did in a big way. For one night at least, all the parts fit.

Afterward, the Pistons huddled at midcourt as Corey Maggette spoke. I don’t know what he said, but it probably involved some of those clichés that all teams use – emphasizing the value of teamwork, unselfishness and belief in each other.

Tonight, those words aren’t a plea. They’re reality.

Phoenix Suns 77 Final
Recap | Box Score
117 Detroit Pistons
Jason Maxiell, PF 22 MIN | 4-6 FG | 1-2 FT | 6 REB | 2 AST | 9 PTS | +12

Steadily efficient.

Tayshaun Prince, SF 30 MIN | 3-5 FG | 5-6 FT | 2 REB | 3 AST | 12 PTS | +23

Using assist-to-shot ratio, admittedly a crude measure, Prince had only one game this unselfish last season.

Kyle Singler, SF 32 MIN | 5-12 FG | 1-2 FT | 4 REB | 1 AST | 12 PTS | +19

Who would have thought Singler could score 12 points in what feels like an off game for him?

Greg Monroe, C 28 MIN | 4-7 FG | 1-2 FT | 8 REB | 3 AST | 9 PTS | +15

The ball didn’t go through Monroe as much as usual, which means it went through him far less than I’d usually like. But with four turnovers, Monroe wasn’t sharp, and there were better options tonight. Still, he had a fine game overall.

Brandon Knight, PG 24 MIN | 5-11 FG | 6-7 FT | 1 REB | 6 AST | 19 PTS | +24

I don’t think Knight has turned a corner yet, but here’s another excellent game to support the theory that he has. I don’t know whether I was more impressed with his 3-of-3 3-point shooting or 6-of-7 free-throw shooting. Six assists and three turnovers, in this context, is definitely acceptable.

Charlie Villanueva, PF 21 MIN | 7-8 FG | 1-3 FT | 6 REB | 2 AST | 19 PTS | +32

There have been plenty of reasons to not like Villanueva as a player, but you must give him credit for this: When his number was called, he was ready. Since replacing Jonas Jerebko in the rotation, Villanueva has played exceptionally well. He didn’t need to play through rust, and he deserves credit for his preparation.

Austin Daye, PF 7 MIN | 1-4 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 1 AST | 2 PTS | +11

The only Piston to play who didn’t make a noticeable positive impact tonight.

Corey Maggette, SF 15 MIN | 3-5 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 2 AST | 8 PTS | +11

Quiet but efficient.

Andre Drummond, C 25 MIN | 3-7 FG | 0-2 FT | 9 REB | 0 AST | 6 PTS | +21

Drummond dunked on a couple alley-oops, but I’d like to point out the one from Rodney Stuckey to star the second quarter. Sure, the dunk was spectacular, but don’t miss that Drummond set a great screen to create the play. Add his usual rebounding and rim protection, and this was a nice night for him.

Will Bynum, PG 7 MIN | 0-0 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 4 AST | 0 PTS | +10

Four assists with a usage rate of zero? Oh, my. That had happened only once in each of the last three seasons. Plus, this was even more assists per minute than Bynum’s 20-assist game.

Rodney Stuckey, PG 25 MIN | 4-8 FG | 10-11 FT | 5 REB | 4 AST | 18 PTS | +22

Look at all those free throws! Add the passing and rebounding Stuckey has shown in past seasons, and I think he’s found the his best role – at least for now.

Kim English, SG 5 MIN | 1-3 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 0 AST | 3 PTS | 0

Made his only 3-point attempt, a reminder that English could still serve a role on this team.

Jonas Jerebko, PF DNP COACH’S DECISION

Didn’t play at all in a 40-point win, and at least one beat writer think Jerebko has shown "displeasure" with his demotion (make that two). I’m not reading too much into this, but Jerebko didn’t appear too happy during the post-game huddle, either. I’ll let you – if my perception is even accurate – decide whether that’s a disruptive problem or just his competitive nature. It is curious that he didn’t play at all tonight.

111 Comments

  • Nov 28, 201210:19 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    great game… total team effort

  • Nov 28, 201210:29 pm
    by Serge Geara

    Reply

    .500 basketball maybe?

  • Nov 28, 201210:37 pm
    by vic

    Reply

    now that was some real basketball!
    Easier to play like a team when the players on the court fit together. Kudos to Stuckey for adding Singler to the starting lineup.
    Kudos to Frank for finally sitting Will Bynum, and spacing the floor with CV (though I would have preferred English & Jerebko over CV and Maggette).
    Kudos to CV for putting all the talk behind him and just balling finally. Can’t hate that. 
    Go Pistons.  

  • Nov 28, 201210:38 pm
    by Mel

    Reply

    I’ll man up and give Frankenberrie Props for coaching this game. Lets see how we look against Memphis.

  • Nov 28, 201210:39 pm
    by Desolation Row

    Reply

    Glad CV’s picked up his game.

    ….trade bait at some point? Maybe if he does this a bit more consistently? 

  • Nov 28, 201210:40 pm
    by Moonchild

    Reply

    real nice win tonight for the stones, stuckey is tough to handle off the bench.  my favorite part about stuckey is hes taking will bynums minutes. We looked like a playoff team tonight, one solid trade and i think we will be.

  • Nov 28, 201210:41 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    dont want to water it down but his was the suns 4th game in 5 nights ….. i just dont want to go crazy, 

    • Nov 29, 20129:39 am
      by Crispus

      Reply

      Same story when we blew out Boston. Still, 40 points shows we have some firepower.

  • Nov 28, 201210:43 pm
    by vic

    Reply

    Winning the games they’re supposed to win is something they would not have done before Stuckey and Frank made the appropriate changes…
    This is good regardless of who they were playing, they’ve changed as a team. 

    • Nov 28, 201211:00 pm
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      i agree

    • Nov 28, 201211:45 pm
      by TheDude

      Reply

      Stuckey deserves most of the credit for that, as Frank was going to go back to his original lineup. Stuckey showed something we have never really seen out of him. Maturity. It was also pretty selfless, and team oriented.
       
      GO PISTONS!

      • Nov 29, 20127:28 am
        by Vic

        Reply

        Yeah Stuck really saved the season. 

        • Nov 29, 201210:35 am
          by mixmasta

          Reply

          Agreed.
           
          Stuck is not perfect.. Flaws like finishing strong in the paint and handling offensive flow but the guy deserves credit for this lineup change.
          I love Will Bynum but with our current lineup, sad to say but he only hurt the development of our future.

  • Nov 28, 201210:48 pm
    by PK SMID

    Reply

    Very excited about the win. But, lets say absolute best case scenario happens this year and pistons make the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed. How terrible is that BG trade going to look? Rather than being able to add one more potential rotation player in first round, pistons will have no first round pick

    • Nov 28, 201211:08 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      If the world started spinning backwards and the Pistons made the playoffs this season, presumably they would try to use the cap space from the trade to try to get a FA.

    • Nov 28, 201211:15 pm
      by Chris N

      Reply

      Not sure how terrible the Gordon trade would look if they do make the playoffs.  The draft class is still shaping up this year but I don’t think its going to be anywhere near as strong as last years was.  A mid-round pick might net you a rotation player, but it might just as well net a project.  And that’s assuming no other moves are made between now and then.

       If things form up like some are expecting, the Pistons might be able to parlay some of their cap space into a decent player or draft picks  in a trade.  Not counting them out of the first round just yet.

      • Nov 29, 201212:19 am
        by dtmfr

        Reply

        How is the Gordon trade even remotely terrible?  Gores will save himself 15 million on that deal.  The pick is lottery protected next June, top 8 protected in 2014, number 1 protected in 2015, and 2016. We’ll have the pick this next June and have a lot of cap to get a very good player. Charlotte won’t get anything better than a mid 1st for the cost of 15 million. Waste of money.

        • Nov 29, 20128:30 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          From a financial standpoint, it was probably a good trade. But I don’t care about Gores’ wallet. And from a basketball standpoint, it was a terrible deal unless DUmars can make something good happen with his cap space (which has yet to be seen).

  • Nov 28, 201210:49 pm
    by Tangen

    Reply

    Whats up with JJ?

  • Nov 28, 201211:04 pm
    by Cresto

    Reply

    It was so beautiful to see them moving the ball. Of course, in garbage time, Bynum and Daye played hilariously awkward basketball. 

  • Nov 28, 201211:06 pm
    by shawn brown

    Reply

    would they really dump maxiell?  dont you think he has value as a rotation player on this team?
         i love how they have been playing as of late.  i know the suns were playing on tired legs but id sure as hell have a win then a loss. i know its early but am i the only one who sees progress with this team.

  • Nov 28, 201211:17 pm
    by Jay

    Reply

    How come JJ was the only person not to play today?

    • Nov 28, 201211:53 pm
      by Mike

      Reply

      JJ was playing mostly with Will Bynum… and then he was also having trouble hitting the broadside of a barn we he did get his hands on the roundball… nobody playing with Bynum has looked very good except maybe Drummond cuz he can play DEfense.

  • Nov 28, 201211:18 pm
    by Mel

    Reply

    I see talent with this team, it would be good to see who really fits and then make a trade to get rid of the log jam. This will open up more cap space for us. But if the team jells the way it did during the second half of last season we’ll be in good position to get one great player and extent contracts to a few of our players. This game reminded me of better times as a Piston Fan.

  • Nov 28, 201211:56 pm
    by hirobeats

    Reply

    No mention of Brandon knight huh.. I guess we still think he sucks….

    • Nov 29, 201212:03 am
      by Vince

      Reply

      Who has ever said BK sucked? He’s a work in progress at worst, he has his pros and cons in the game, tonight he played really well, TOs still a problem, but as long as he makes good passes and keeps shooting well he’s a good player.

      Knight still has a way to go before  becoming a solid and consistent PG in the League, if we harp on him because of the few flaws in his game, it doesn’t mean we say he sucks.

    • Nov 29, 201212:03 am
      by Mike

      Reply

      Yeah BK7 just had an Isiah type night.  BK gets and keeps those turn overs down and things may get interesting, just maybe.

      • Nov 29, 20121:45 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        An Isiah type night?

        His performance looked a lot more like Isaiah Thomas than Isiah Thomas. 

    • Nov 29, 20126:52 am
      by Derek

      Reply

      BK7 is trending in the right direction.  He went from early season shooting woes to 4 successive games of putting numbers on the board.  3 for 3 from 3 is lovely.  I would like to see more free throws and better ball protection.  I think he’ll get better with his turnovers, it’s just taking a bit longer than I’d hoped.

      I also want to see more nights where he gets after his man like he did with Lillard.

    • Nov 29, 20127:47 am
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      @HiroBeat

      I agree, Last year people were down on Knight, and earlier this year people were down on Knight…In the Month of November , he has been a Top 10 PG/Combo guard …. when you look at Numbers and performace

      • Nov 29, 20129:40 am
        by Scott Free

        Reply

        What gets me is all the questions in the off-season about whether he was even capable of performing at this level… and I’ve yet to see a single mea culpa.  

        Dan will disagree of course, but I suspect those minuses in the game Knight lead the Pistons to victory in the clutch, in the game Knight dominated Lillard, and in a game where he lead his team to a blowout, is an attempt to save a little face.

      • Nov 29, 20121:44 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        How is a guy averaging 13, 3, and 6 with 3 TOs and just half a steal on 43% from the field and 75% from the line a top 10 PG?

        Why would there be a mea culpa? I would probably qualify as one of Knight’s detractors (not that I think he won’t amount to much, but I think it is far from a given that he will). I did not expect huge things from Knight. but I expected more than he’s shown. His numbers for the season are, quite frankly, substandard.

        Limiting our view to the month of November doesn’t change much either. That only removes one game in which he put up number pretty close to his averages for the season (better points, rebounds, steals, TOs and worse assists, percentages).

        • Nov 29, 20124:18 pm
          by Scott Free

          Reply

          Monroe is the only Piston whose averages havent been drug down by a hard western road swing which lead to an aberrant start of the season.  If you compare Knight’s sophomore start to another scoring PG, Ty Lawson, their 2nd season numbers per 36 are almost identical (Lawson has slight edges in a handful of categories but is also about 2 years older at this respective point in their careers) 

          I’m not saying that Brandon Knight is the second coming, but some of the assertions on this board about his ceiling and his position have been cynical to the point of absurdity.  Point guards historically take longer to develop (Chauncey Billups 2nd season per 36 minutes averages are essentially identical to Knights, with a less impressive shooting %).  Knight just has the problem of coming up in an era of “just add water” point guards like Lillard and Irving which colors perceptions.   

          • Nov 29, 20124:33 pm
            by tarsier

            “Point guards historically take longer to develop”

            People say this about PGs and Cs for some reason. But I don’t see it. Yeah, Billups came on late but he was the exception. Is there actually any evidence to support this assertion? Because if we are just going to use anecdotal data points, I can give a bunch to support it or contradict it.

            You could compare Knight’s start to Lawson’s. Lawson’s has still been superior in basically every way except 3 point shooting. But not by all that much. However, this has also been quite a disappointing start to Lawson’s season.

            Knight seems like a really nice piece for the Pistons. And his ceiling is probably the sort of player who can get in an ASG if on a very winning team. I’m not convinced he’ll reach that, but he could.

            However, there are a number of people on this site who just love to sing his praises (which I am convinced is at least partly just because some mock drafters projected the Jazz to reach for him with the number 3 pick). I’m not writing off Knight’s future, but his past production has been undebatably subpar.

        • Nov 29, 20126:06 pm
          by I HATE FRANK

          Reply

          “How is a guy averaging 13, 3, and 6 with 3 TOs and just half a steal on 43% from the field and 75% from the line a top 10 PG?”

          1. 13ppg 44% from the field 47% for 3′s 6ast , 3 to’s ….. 3.5 rebs ….(i always round up, or I round down) Now list the other 10 pg’s playing better…. in November? and he only has been averaging 31minutes per game, and only averaging 10-11 shots per -game… which makes him efficient…  
          “Why would there be a mea culpa? I would probably qualify as one of Knight’s detractors (not that I think he won’t amount to much, but I think it is far from a given that he will). I did not expect huge things from Knight. but I expected more than he’s shown. His numbers for the season are, quite frankly, substandard.”

          2. last 12 games…. out of the 16 games played… he scoring 15ppg shooting 47% from the field , and 48-49% for 3′s … if that substandard? name the other players currently doing that?
          “Limiting our view to the month of November doesn’t change much either. That only removes one game in which he put up number pretty close to his averages for the season (better points, rebounds, steals, TOs and worse assists, percentages).”

          3. it makes no sense to ignore his play for the bulk of the season…If i was just looking at the last 4 games alone, then yes, but he has been building up to those games.

          I love when people argue against numbers, its the same mindset, that would say Maxiell over Drummond…
           

          • Nov 30, 201212:30 am
            by tarsier

            “i always round up, or I round down”

            What do you even mean by this? I round to the nearest. On some counts, that improves his stats, on some it worsens them, but it evens out pretty well.

            “and he only has been averaging 31minutes per game”

            31.1 mpg puts him 74th in the league. So just a hair above average for starters. In other words, his minutes are not worth mentioning to point out that he log a ton or relatively few. “Only” is not a fitting term. I wouldn’t have brought this up but you did first.

            “and only averaging 10-11 shots per -game… which makes him efficient…”

            13 points on 10.5 shots is not highly efficient. It’s not highly inefficient either, I’ll grant you, until you throw in the 1.75:1 AST:TO ratio. But that is there. So yeah, it is inefficient.

            “Now list the other 10 pg’s playing better…. in November?”

            Umm, okay, off the top of my head: Chris Paul, Rajon Rondo, Mike Conley, Jrue Holiday, Tony Parker, Deron Williams, Goran Dragic, Russel Westbrook, Greivis Vasquez, Jose Calderon, Raymond Felton, Jeff Teague, Brandon Jennings. That’s gotta be at least 10. And Steph Curry, Jeremy Lin, Ty Lawson, Darren Collison, Kemba Walker, Damian Lillard, Luke Ridnour, and Ramon Sessions are all at least arguably outperforming him… in November (which, again, is basically the same as saying this season to date).

            “last 12 games…. out of the 16 games played… he scoring 15ppg shooting 47% from the field , and 48-49% for 3?s … if that substandard? name the other players currently doing that?”

            Yeah, everyone looks good if you throw out the worst 25% of their games. And I agree that there are only a handful of players matching all of those statistical threshholds. However, at least half of the list I made above before the “arguable” section is putting up better numbers by significantly outperforming those levels in some areas while falling a little short in others.

            “it makes no sense to ignore his play for the bulk of the season”

            I agree. But I’m not sure what the point you are trying to make is. I don’t see any reason to look at November numbers instead of season long numbers. But whatever, look at either one, they are nearly identical.

            “I love when people argue against numbers, its the same mindset, that would say Maxiell over Drummond…”

            First, please don’t be condescending. You can call me an idiot or whatever. But condescension really, really annoys me. Second, what numbers am I arguing against? I was providing numbers. The numbers Knight has been producing. Yes, over the last 4 games, Knight has been fantastic. So I guess I argued against using just a small subset of his games at such an early point in the season, but I am including those fantastic games. They are worth just as much as the poor ones preceding them. You are the one oddly trying to argue against his numbers from the first one to four games of the season.

          • Nov 30, 20128:42 am
            by I HATE FRANK

            this is going to be fun…

            “What do you even mean by this? I round to the nearest. On some counts, that improves his stats, on some it worsens them, but it evens out pretty well.”

            This is about the only thing we will agree, on we just used different terms

            31.1 mpg puts him 74th in the league. So just a hair above average for starters. In other words, his minutes are not worth mentioning to point out that he log a ton or relatively few. “Only” is not a fitting term. I wouldn’t have brought this up but you did first.”

            For STARTING PG… Knight is 23rd in the league… example: Kemba Walker (3rd) gets 37mins per-game, and Damian Lilliard (2nd) gets 37 minutes per-game..Knight “ONLY” plays 31 minutes…6 more minutes a game thats half of a NBA quater, it create more opportunities scoring,ast,rebs ect….

            “13 points on 10.5 shots is not highly efficient. It’s not highly inefficient either, I’ll grant you, until you throw in the 1.75:1 AST:TO ratio. But that is there. So yeah, it is inefficient.”

            Knight in November, and YES! im talking NOVEMBER… Knight is 27th in the league for shot attempts…, shooting 43.8% (round to the nearest 44%) he is ranked 10th-11th among starting PG…. for 3 point shooting 46.7 (round to the nearest 47%) among starting NBA PG he is ranked 1st! … That not highly efficient? because their are players you’ve listed better than him NOT in top 20 for either category… and I agree he needs to be better with the ball, but he is doing soo many other things well…His TS% among starting PG..Knight is in the top 5! ….
            “Umm, okay, off the top of my head: Chris Paul, Rajon Rondo, Mike Conley, Jrue Holiday, Tony Parker, Deron Williams, Goran Dragic, Russel Westbrook, Greivis Vasquez, Jose Calderon, Raymond Felton, Jeff Teague, Brandon Jennings. That’s gotta be at least 10. And Steph Curry, Jeremy Lin, Ty Lawson, Darren Collison, Kemba Walker, Damian Lillard, Luke Ridnour, and Ramon Sessions are all at least arguably outperforming him… in November (which, again, is basically the same as saying this season to date). “

            Show me the stats…Because the numbers dont back half the people on your list…unless you are basing it ALL on “the 1.75:1 AST:TO ratio” …  Example: Kemba Walker does get steals, but does NOTHING ELSE BETTER THAN KNIGHT! other than score more but he takes 7 more shot attempts, and shots under 39% and 25% for 3′s…Jermey Lin? really 10.3ppg 6.5ast 3.0 tos …4.5 rebs 37% from the Field and 24% for 3′s … and he’s playing better than Knight?… I could easily pick apart your list…

            “Yeah, everyone looks good if you throw out the worst 25% of their games. And I agree that there are only a handful of players matching all of those statistical threshholds. However, at least half of the list I made above before the “arguable” section is putting up better numbers by significantly outperforming those levels in some areas while falling a little short in others.”

            I agree. But I’m not sure what the point you are trying to make is. I don’t see any reason to look at November numbers instead of season long numbers. But whatever, look at either one, they are nearly identical.”

            The 12 game stretch marks a turn around in his game, that the point I was making. Where he has been scoring and shooting better, making better decision. At the end of the day he has played GOOD Basketball in November, the only thing he can do better trying to eliminate turnovers,and would I like his steals to go up? YES, but Stls DOES NOT mean you are playing solid or good defense, just like blks dont make you a post defender.
            “First, please don’t be condescending. You can call me an idiot or whatever. But condescension really, really annoys me. Second, what numbers am I arguing against? I was providing numbers. The numbers Knight has been producing. Yes, over the last 4 games, Knight has been fantastic. So I guess I argued against using just a small subset of his games at such an early point in the season, but I am including those fantastic games. They are worth just as much as the poor ones preceding them. You are the one oddly trying to argue against his numbers from the first one to four games of the season.”

            I love a healthy debate, and would never call any one an idiot, but I am sarcastic by nature. Listen, I know he is not going to be 20ppg 50% FG and 60% for 3′s all year, and i’ve always said he needs to be a legit scoring threat to be effective, I could careless about him being a masterful PG averaging 8-10ast pg… Knight is showing us his potential, in another system with a different coach Knight Numbers would be better across the board. All im saying he give him praise, FOR RIGHT NOW…

          • Nov 30, 201210:05 am
            by tarsier

            Fair enough on the minutes, I was comparing him to starters on that count and not to starting PGs. But it would appear that starting PGs are tending to get more minutes than starters at other positions. So you are right on that count. However, I’m guessing you got your “23rd among starting PGs” stat from ESPN’s stats, where it is counting Reke and Ellis as PGs. Even if those two do play some PG, they are not their teams’ starting PGs and spend more time at off guard. If they qualified, I would have added them to the list of those outperforming Knight. Even so, starting PGs are averaging about 33 mpg. I don’t think the two fewer minutes are killing Knight’s stats very much.

            I agree that Knight is a very good 3 point shooter. And thankfully, he is taking quite a few threes. props to him. And yes, his FG% in November is slightly above average for a PG. I am not, however, just looking at his AST:TO ratio. I am looking at that in concert with his percentages (just like I am not just looking at his first four games, but I am including them). Furthermore, he doesn’t get to the line a whole lot, and he converts his FTs at a well below average rate for starting PGs (albeit, a fairly average rate for NBA players).

            Yes, I am sure my list could be picked apart. Especially the section I clearly listed as debatable–which is where you pulled the two names you stated you had a problem with. So let’s ignore that section even though I think Knight is somewhere smack dab in the middle of it (making a couple of them better than him too). In the first 13 names, I dare you to find 4 that you don’t think I could provide resounding evidence that they have outperformed Knight in November.

            The last 12 games may have represented a turnaround from the first four for Knight. but I am unconvinced. His numbers are only mildly better by removing those four (basically going from slightly below average for a starting PG to slightly above average). And I’m sure supporters of many of the other names could say some four bad games also represented a departure from the true level of play of their guys.

            I’m not worried about him getting 8-10 apg either. Especially when the offense is running through Monroe and everyone is moving the ball well. But the low assist numbers do make the high TO numbers more unacceptable. When someone is always handling the ball and passing it a ton, a number of TOs is inescapable. For a guy playing like Knight, that number should definitely be under 2.5 per game. And shooting at a slightly above average rate (starting PGs average about 43%) isn’t enough to make up for that and call him an efficient player.

          • Nov 30, 201211:45 am
            by I HATE FRANK

            I think we are pretty much saying the samething…and I agree that Knight has to do better with the ball, but when I watch the games and the turnover do take place. some of them are early in the game, when the score if like , 2 to 4 …. i’ve only seen maybe one game this year late when he looked out of control and made bad decision when it mattered especially recently….

            He has become very confident is his shot, and when its not falling, he does drive the ball and get into the lane.

            His assist numbers WILL NOT ever be HIGH..because of the way the Pistons play offense….

            Last note Kyrie Irving averages 4.1 to’s a game…. and nobody cares, because he scores 20ppg (but takes 17 shots) … Knight can be that player, I just think he has a bum rep….

          • Nov 30, 20122:40 pm
            by tarsier

            “ i’ve only seen maybe one game this year late when he looked out of control and made bad decision when it mattered especially recently…”

            Ok, no offense, but that attitude is one of the most egregiously erroneous ones I know. A turnover matters just as much when the score is 2 to 4 as it does with 90 seconds left in the fourth quarter. It won’t be remembered as much, but it counts equally.

            And, as I said, the low assist numbers are acceptable even if non-ideal. But the style of offense should drop his TOs as much as his assists. Hence why I use their ratio as an indicator of efficiency and not either raw number.

            Furthermore, I still don’t see how he has been a top ten PG in November. However, if one the season he can put up 15 and 6 on 45% from the field and 40% from three with under 3 TOs, I would consider it a massively successful season. Probably still not top ten PG caliber, but I don’t expect him to be a top ten PG in his second season.

          • Nov 30, 20123:05 pm
            by I HATE FRANK

            fair enough, but I think he will be much better than people expected…

            I said it about Drummond…and I was Correct…I said it about Singler and I was correct… 

  • Nov 29, 201212:06 am
    by frankie d

    Reply

    great to see a win tonight, for once.
    great to see real team play, on the court, for once.
    however, i concur with feldman and my joy at the win is tempered by the fact that 4 of the top 9 rotation players – tay, maxiell, CV and magette –  should be moved by the trade deadline to free up minutes for younger players and to accumulate assets as the team rebuilds.  
    unfortunately, that scenario is unlikely to happen and what we will be left with is another 30-35 win season, after which fans will still have many of the same questions we had this november. 
    playing CV, max and magette is great…if the idea is to pump up their trade value so that you can move them.
    playing them, and penciling in tay for his 30 minutes every night, is maddening for fans that want to move on.
    on the plus side, knight seems to have turned a corner.  with stuckey no longer there to jam up things, he seems to have taken a subtle but important step forward in the last few games.  hopefully, it will continue and if it does, playing .500 ball, the rest of the way, seems within reach.
    by the way, what they are doing with JJ is just another example of the kind of gross mismanagement that the team has done with lots of young talent over the last decade.
    he does what he does very well.  what they have been forcing him to try to do the last few weeks takes away the best parts of his game.  
    in a just world, he’d be battling with singler for the starting SF position and instead of the team trying to figure out what to do with him, he’d be presenting the team with a very pleasant quandry: what to do with a couple of young guys – singler and JJ – who should be starting.

     

    • Nov 29, 20128:22 am
      by Vic

      Reply

      The good thing is that those vets mins are easily replaceable.

      Tay w/Singler and English. Maggette w/ JJ, max w/ Drummond.
      When CV has it going he is a unique player, but I’m sure Daye/Middleton can hit 3 s and get boards, though they might not match his post game.

      the key with this team going forward is going to be confidence sharing the ball and coach Frank making good decisions. The talent is there, it could use a boost but 80% of the talent is there 

      • Nov 29, 20128:24 am
        by Vic

        Reply

        The only thing that changes for me is this: if CV plays anything like you did last night for the rest of the year I do not amnesty him.

    • Nov 29, 201212:09 pm
      by MikeJ

      Reply

      Trading Magette is terrible idea.  We traded for him because of his expiring contract, which is of much higher value to us than adding any player that a team would give us for the ability to play an aged Corey Magette for only the remainder of this season.  If the idea is that we can get rid pf him and his contract for a pick then that is just as useless.  We don’t need more mid-level rookie projects.  I am certainly hoping for a starting line-up including monroe and drummond, but that doesn’t mean we dump Max.  He is a high energy player who has great value coming off the bench at PF or C.  CV and Jonas can’t do what Max does and Slava is nowhere to be seen.  Building a team around youth doesn’t mean trading every player over 25.  There is value in veteran experience in practice and on the court as well as being mindful of cap space so that truly important pieces can be acquired in the long term.  Shuffling mediocre players for other mediocre players or mid to late round picks has no value to team like the pistons.  Adjusting how minutes are allocated is another story, but having a player remain on the team doesn’t force us to play him.

  • Nov 29, 201212:07 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    memphis is team we actually matchup well against….great test for us

    • Nov 29, 201210:06 am
      by XstreamINsanity

      Reply

      I would agree, if our starting frontcourt was JJ, Monroe and Drummond.  However, Tay isn’t going to be able to hold Rudy Gay, Max isn’t going to be able to contain Randolph, and Monroe will have a hard time with Gasol.

      • Nov 29, 201212:46 pm
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        I guess , i should have said. We CAN MATCH UP WELL

  • Nov 29, 201212:10 am
    by Delray313

    Reply

    Great game lets go Cv the offense is flowing with singler starting and stuckey running the bench unit. Dont hate Cv he is doing what he does best, Knight is on his way to a great career stuckey looks like stuckey. The wild card is singler he is growing on me, this team is as good as it is going to get but they look better

    • Nov 29, 20127:01 am
      by Derek

      Reply

      BK7 will have his hands full dealing with Mike Conley.  The irony in saying that is incredible.  Conley initially struggled in his first two years with the pg duties and was starting to look like a bust.  He eventually got it and now he distributes, hits the open shot, takes the ball to the basket, and pressures his man with the best of them.

      BK7 just may turn the corner ahead of when Conley showed his significant improvement (which looks like that was year 3).

      Great win against a Phoenix team we should have beat.  Now we face arguably the best team in the NBA on their home floor.  I only ask that we play selfish and go hard. 

      • Nov 29, 20123:11 pm
        by sebastian

        Reply

        Yeah, Derek, Conley has a very nice floor game, these days. Plays with patience and command and will hit the big shot all game long, too.

  • Nov 29, 201212:53 am
    by Bugsygod

    Reply

    Small disagreement with you Dan on the part about the guys not gonna be with us next year. That’s basically every team in the league.  Look at the two finals teams heat add Lewis Allen  thunder trade harden.  Every year is constant change , the key is to build a group of core of players that will be with you a long time.  Now for Detroit I see currently 4 core members. GMonroe.  Adrummond.  Bknight. ksingler  Left Jerbko out because of his play this year. Have to wait on english,middleton,slava to get real minutes to see their worth.  So to me you have to form a rest of the team and you need players to do that, some will not be with you next year.   I think we have 4/5ths of a future playoff starting lineup.  i like the idea of building a winning environment and using some vets to do this.  Drummond not getting minutes is my only real problem as far as playing time for the young guys.   JJ has been here 3years knows the league, had a great summer and now this. Would like to see him more at sf, but it is what it is an you have to make shots and no mistakes, JJ did both poorly.  So should he play over cv now that he is playing well .. NO. JJ will get another chance it’s a long season. The other three rooks time will come as well.  Lets just see how much we can win going forward.   And play best winning lineups.  And Drummond More Minutes!  Remember even the strong contenders right now are playing guys not part of their future. 

  • Nov 29, 201212:58 am
    by Bugsygod

    Reply

    Point about stuckey.  It was pointed out on espn by one of their analysts that stuckey would struggle as the two guard because he loses his size advantage against 2′s    As a pg his real advantage getting to the hoop and posting up is based on his size.  You can now see him start to play better as he is back at the pg.       

    • Nov 29, 20127:07 am
      by Derek

      Reply

      @Bugsygod I agree Stuckey loses his size advantage when he shifts to the 2, still I would argue as a strong bull of a player he should be able to power his way to the basket against the other 2′s.

      Stuckey was effective last year playing the 2, he just seems to be one of those players who needs to dominate the ball to be effective.  For some reason he has not developed to the point where he can play off the ball and be effective.  That to me seems to be more about comfort and desire than ability.  He doesn’t want to play without the ball in his hands.  It’s like Linus and his blanket.

      Anywho…he’s playing well as the backup 1 and we’re winning.  I can live with him having his security blanket if he’s going to continue to produce like he did against the Suns.

      • Nov 29, 20128:59 am
        by bugsygod

        Reply

        @derek i agree what you are saying stuckey should be able to play well against 2′s.  BUT, im sure you would agree he will have an “easier” time, driving and posting up pg’s than 2′s.  Your right too about needing the ball in his hands to be more effective.  The only problem is he is not a really good pg.  I think he is what everyone has said from day one…a combo guard.  This “harden” role he has now i think will be his best role this year and going forward.  Just not sure it will be here with the pistons.    

        • Nov 29, 20129:40 am
          by Derek

          Reply

          @Bugsygod I do agree he will have an easier job playing bully ball against smaller players.  It is just annoying to me that he hasn’t developed into a player that can diversify his game.  At the rate of his improvement, I’m not sure losing Stuckey is as big a deal as it used to be.

  • Nov 29, 20121:35 am
    by Piston Truth

    Reply

    Looks like 97.1 the ticket burned a hole in their ass this afternoon on the Valenti and Foster show Good job in responding Good win!

  • Nov 29, 20121:59 am
    by bball4224

    Reply

    Yup it’s official, the CV31 jersey is finally coming back out of my closet.
    Glad to see us playing some basketball! I wish our garbage minutes would have went to JJ instead of Daye, but other than that, great game.

  • Nov 29, 20122:17 am
    by jack

    Reply

    I think the better play by the Piston’s off late can be attributed to the shortening up of the bench rotation to 4 instead of 6-7 players for a rotation toatal of 9.  Instead of playing 3 pg’s L Frank is playing just Stuckey and Knight.  This gives both players more consistent minutes and production.  Also I like the fact that Knight is looking to score more.  I do not think the pistons need a pg that averages 8-10 assists due to a few factors.  Stuckey playing back up pg gives the pistons a two headed monster at the position that can on a typical night combine for 25-30 pointsand 9-11 assists.  The fact that the Pistons also have Monroe at Center one of the best passing bigs in the league does not hurt either.  As a team the pistons are averaging nearly 22 assists for the season so Knight averaging 5-6 assists is perfectly fine.  He just needs to cut down on the turnovers and get to that magic 3/1 assist to turnover ratio.  I firmly believe he can become a 17-19 ppg scorer as early as this season.  Lastly the fact that CV31 is playing like he did with the Bucks does not hurt either.  He is not only making his 3s but posting up a little, passing, and rebounding, not to mention playing good D.  That is all you can expect from your back up PF, giving 20-24 minutes of good production.  Knock on wood but if this continues I can see us making the playoffs, but the Pistons are probably better off just taking it one game at a time.  I am curios to see how they do against Memphis.

  • Nov 29, 20122:28 am
    by Mark

    Reply

    Only 3 games out of the playoffs!

    Get packed Larry O’Brien, you’re coming home!

  • Nov 29, 20127:58 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    About Drummond,

    The Alley-Opp that Drummond caught from Stuckey was the same play that Ben Wallace, and Billups use to run. ( I commented about that yesterday)

    Stuckey is the only players on our roster that causes a defense to collapse, where that pass to Drummond will be there 50% of the time… it felt a little Chris Paul to Blake Griffin-like 

    After the game against Portland I said Drummond needs to stop playing like Monroe finesse around the basket, I even tweeted Drummond, and told him he needs to dunk EVERYTHING! i said he needs to play like Shaq 2k.  I love when Will gave him that High Pass, he made a spin move NO Hesitation FLASH DUNK! it happened SO QUICK! Thats how he has to play the game down low.. Quick and with Power…

    • Nov 29, 20128:28 am
      by Vic

      Reply

      He needs to dunk everything but he does not need to alley oop everything.

      He needs to slow down and gather himself sometimes, use his hips. 

      • Nov 29, 20129:05 am
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        i agree, i would love for him to watch some of what Shaq use do to.

        Use speed, size and strenght to get deep post position, and when you get the ball play going towards the basket, and stop with that will fade away.

  • Nov 29, 20128:14 am
    by Fan

    Reply

    If the Pistons lose “They suck” but if they win, they were lucky because “the (insert team name here) was on their x road game on x days”. smh. Can’t you just support the team and be happy with the win? 

    • Nov 29, 20129:45 am
      by Scott Free

      Reply

      No kidding.  If they want a team packed with all stars to play selfish ball and roflstomp their opponents through sheer talent, they should be watching the Heat or the Lakers or the Knicks.  But that isnt Pistons ball and it never will be  (and unlike many of these “fans” thats the way I like it).

      • Nov 29, 20121:48 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        Miami plays selfish ball? How so? I know team assists are an imperfect measure, but they are the most common one for such discussions as this. And they are 4th in the league on that count.

        • Nov 29, 20123:56 pm
          by Scott Free

          Reply

          I’m comparing the franchise history of the Heat vs the Pistons.  And yes, while they’re playing good team ball this year — it took quite a few bumps in the road to iron out the dynamic between wade, bosh, & james.  But come on man, think about every other time they approached relevance — Shaq and Wade played unselfish ball?  

          • Nov 29, 20124:17 pm
            by tarsier

            I assumed you were talking right now because “a team packed with all stars” hardly describes Miami’s franchise history.

            Besides which, every franchise goes through eras of teams who play selfish ball and ones who play team ball. 

      • Nov 29, 20122:33 pm
        by Desolation Row

        Reply

        So… you would object to Dwight Howard and Chris Paul teaming up on the Pistons because that “isn’t Pistons ball”? Let’s be rational here.  

        • Nov 29, 20123:59 pm
          by Scott Free

          Reply

          Of course not, but they aren’t ever going to play here unless they’re nearing 35 and need to see Arnie — so its sort of a moot point.  My complaint is with fair-weather fans that somehow expect a minor market like Detroit to compete with some of the biggest names in the league on a talent vs talent basis, it sets people up for having completely irrational and overblown expectations for the squad (a’la Tarsier crapping over Knights performance of late)

          • Nov 29, 20124:23 pm
            by tarsier

            What about Knight’s performance hasn’t deserved crapping over? I don’t think he has been terrible, but he has been a well below average starting PG this season.

            And Detroit has competed with big markets. I don’t see how that is an unreasonable expectation. Heck, the biggest market, New York, has been miserable for a long time until getting Amar’e in 2010. The Clippers are in the second biggest and they have only recently become relevant too. Miami is a comparably sized market to Detroit. San Antonio, Memphis, and OKC are much smaller. Houston, Dallas, and Philly are among the biggest markets. And when is the last time any of them made a big free agency splash? They largely drafted and traded for talent while adding middling pieces in FA.

          • Nov 29, 20125:25 pm
            by Scott Free

            I get by your last post that you dont think he’s been terrible, but seriously, almost every one of your other comments would suggest otherwise (until I could squeeze a handful of compliments towards knight out of you.)

            And I was saying we cant compete talent vs talent against big market teams… I’m not saying we can’t compete against them, but we have to do it through hustle, grit, & smart basketball (not big name acquisitions).  I think you’re really mistaken if you think of Detroit as the same kind of draw to a free agent as Miami (even if talent levels are equal).  Stars look for glamour markets, its undeniable.  (Funny that you mentioned the Knicks, yes they’ve been terrible, but they’ve also been pulling in overrated star power since the days of John Stark & Allan Houston)  

          • Nov 29, 20125:36 pm
            by Scott Free

            How about a) making a game winning shot, b) holding the likely rookie of the year to arguably his worst performance to date, c) nearly doubling his assist totals over last year, d) dominating dragic in almost every statistical category, e) until last game he was leading all players 22 and under in assists.  

          • Nov 29, 20127:08 pm
            by Desolation Row

            I see, I supposed I misread your comment because you said you preferred it that way. I think Knight is an average point guard, which is a start for this team. I don’t consider him a franchise cornerstone like Drummond or Monroe, but rather a solid part of this team’s core that the Pistons can grow with. Saying he can be the starting PG on a championship team or even that he can be an above average player is pure speculation distorted by homer-ism bias; if he played for Utah with his performance thus far he’d barely take up a neuron of cognition in any of our brains. 

            That being said, he seems to be the most significant X factor as far as what player this team’s performance seems to hinge on. And the Piston’s record — season-long and recent — reflects that.  

          • Nov 30, 201212:40 am
            by tarsier

            “I get by your last post that you dont think he’s been terrible, but seriously, almost every one of your other comments would suggest otherwise (until I could squeeze a handful of compliments towards knight out of you.)”

            It’s true, my comments probably come across as extra negative because I am replying to people who are way too positive about Knight’s slightly below average play.

            “Stars look for glamour markets, its undeniable.”

            Sure, but most of the teams I mentioned didn’t fit that category. Heck, Miami didn’t fit that category until LeBron went there. It has an attractive climate and lack of state tax. But that hasn’t historically made Miami and Orlando big time FA draws. Most superstars never enter free agency or resign with the team they are on when they do. They typically move via trade. But the only real glamour destinations in the league are LA and NY. So maybe it is unreasonable to compare to those (yet Detroit has done better than NY for much of the past couple decades). But it is not unfair to compare to like any other franchise.

            “until last game he was leading all players 22 and under in assists”

            Could there be a more meaningless stat? How many other 22 and under PGs had played 10 games, much less the 15 to match Knight? Compare him to NBA players. Or, if you must pare them down, to rookies and sophomores.

          • Nov 30, 20129:30 am
            by Scott Free

            “Could there be a more meaningless stat?  How many other 22 and under PGs had played 10 games, much less the 15 to match Knight?”  AND BINGO WAS HIS NAME-O

            All your crapping on Knight is predicated on comparing him to either A) established players or B) Lillard/Irving — (one of whom he decimated btw)   

          • Nov 30, 201210:10 am
            by tarsier

            “All your crapping on Knight is predicated on comparing him to either A) established players or B) Lillard/Irving”

            A) I’m comparing him to players in the same position. Other starting PGs. I never said he doesn’t have potential or upside. I said he is playing below average right now. And I stand by that.

            B) I wasn’t comparing him to Lillard/Irving any more than any other starters. But if I were, a head to head matchup is kinda irrelevant. Not completely irrelevant, mind you. It counts jut as much as every other game. But that’s why you take season long averages. Because anyone can have a good or bad game on one given night. If both Lillard and Knight remain starting PGs, I guarantee they will each dominate the other several times.

          • Nov 30, 201210:56 am
            by Scott Free

            I get your point that if he’s a starting point guard, he should be compared without qualifications to other starting point guards… but if you compare him at this age, at this point in his career to other qualified point guards in your list, he matches up favorably per 36 mins… Of all the guards I compared to his numbers only Isiah Thomas’s really blew him out of the water… with 1 more turnover per game.   

          • Nov 30, 201211:07 am
            by tarsier

            Oh, I have no problem conceding that he is putting up bigger numbers than most players at his age. That is in part because he was gifted minutes from the get go by coming into a team without a PG. But still. Yeah, for his age, he is doing well. Granted, it will never look as good in the context of this golden age for young PGs.

  • Nov 29, 20128:16 am
    by Fan

    Reply

    btw that wasn’t for you Dan. 

  • Nov 29, 20129:00 am
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    About Brandon Knight

    Brandon Knight was one of the most disrespected players from last year rookie class starting with the draft, when he could have went top 4, but slipped to 8. To being the less respected player to make first team all rookie last year. He was a after thought in most conversation about breakout years for 2nd year players, Even in NBA 2k13, YES I SAID NBA 2k13, soo many rookies from last year who didnt even make first or 2nd team rookie of the year, were rated higher than him. He was called not efficient.

    Stick with me this is going somewhere, he started off trying to be a pass first PG, but was not scoring, he was passing up good looks. Even with games where he had 9, 10, 12 he did look comfortable. Recently a light switch seem to have been flipped on.
    I said all that to say:
    Last night he started slow, and I was thinking, “Here comes that ole BK”, but when they had the Suns on their heels, he went for the Kill, and got aggressive in attack mode, whether pushing the ball and shooting it with confidence. I feel like Knights Competitive Spirit has come alive..its either im better than you, or im just as good as you…
    In the Last four games..
    Knight has averaged 20.5 ppg 57%FG and 12-19 for 3′s “63%” (Will he continue at that shooting percent? Not Likely but WOW)
    vs
    Last four opponents combined average 
    13.7ppg 34% FG and 5-17 for 3′s “29″

    only match up you can can say he has loss was against Felton, because Knicks won by 21 pts…

    Overall Knight has been impressive…So Knight continue to just play your game, and stay in attack mode

    • Nov 29, 20121:54 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      How many times does it have to be pointed out that the only reason Knight going 8th was considered a “slip” was because teams in need of a PG had been typically projected by mock drafts to reach for him? He was typically considered the 6th to 10th best prospect in the draft and he got taken smack dab in the middle of that range. He has put together a nice 4 game stretch and I hope he keeps it up.

      But there is a reason he barely squeaked onto the rookie first team. he didn’t play that well as a rookie. He put up solid per game numbers but his per minute numbers and efficiency were terrible. And thus far, he has played poorly on average this season too.

      He’ll get respect just as soon as he earns it.

      • Nov 29, 20125:00 pm
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        not true, this season in the last 12 games game he has been above-average too good….

        15ppg 47% from the field 48% for 3′s …. 5.5ast  4 rebs…

        Only 31 minutes per game, and 10-12 shots per game in the 12 game stretch….his turnover ratio can be better, but he has been much better than average for the  bulk of the season….

        • Nov 30, 201212:45 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          In the last 12 games, sure. But he has played 16. If you can take the best 12 game stretch for every player this season as their stats, he will no longer be above average. When talking about how well a player is performing, you can’t just choose to drop their best or worst games. Just wait it out. If you are right and he has really turned a corner, the stats will continue to drift toward supporting you.

          But until he plays enough good games to get his average stats to above mediocre, don’t tell me it’s not true that “he has played poorly on average this season.” Because this season includes all 16 games.

  • Nov 29, 20129:19 am
    by Clint in Flint

    Reply

    This game was the most enjoyable Piston game I have watched in a long Long time. If we win at Memphis I will believe that Frank just might make a winning coach. I won’t bet on the piston to win the game, I can’t afford to throw away money that I need for Christmas. Frank, please show me I have been wrong. 

  • Nov 29, 20129:35 am
    by Scott Free

    Reply

    Who does Knight have to sleep with on PistonPowered to get some love without caveats?

    • Nov 29, 201210:09 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Personally, I hold Knight to as high a standard as I do Monroe. That’s not because I think that’s necessarily fair to Knight because he’s not as good a player as Monroe. But the organization talks about those two as if they’re both cornerstone players. So if that’s the standard they believe Knight will live up to, that’s how I’ll evaluate him.

      But I’m working on a lengthy Knight post that will be up sometime tomorrow that is relatively free of caveats. 

      • Nov 29, 201210:34 am
        by Scott Free

        Reply

        I was going to say, if half the team had games this good they’d be chalking up A+’s.  But comparing him to Monroe makes sense (even if he’s still got a year on Knight in the league). 

  • Nov 29, 201210:11 am
    by MNM

    Reply

    Frank gets an F while they manage to win by 40 and put of 117, all because Jerebko didn’t play…? That is completely rediculous. Obviously Jonas is pissed that he’s not playing right now. That’s no secret. “Sources” have said as much, but why wouldn’t he be? He is a competitor who wants to play, yet after the first handful of games, he performance dropped off and he had been awful. Whether it was fatige or something, they had to sit him.. The team hasn’t won very many games. Besides, they know what they have in Jonas going forward and he’s got a nice contract going into the future with this team.. The guys who are getting minutes infront of him right now NEVER get to play and they are trying to figure out what they have in these guys going forward or hopefully up their trade value for other teams watching. Yes, Frank has done some things that can be dissagreed with, but on a night where they win by 40 DAMN POINTS, and he still can’t catch a break? Shows he’ll probably never do right by anybody in this town.

  • Nov 29, 201210:19 am
    by apa8ren9

    Reply

    There were hardly any people there last night but I had a very enjoyable night at the Palace.   Even Charlie was playing some defence last night.   That was a very enjoyable game.   Big test against Memphis.   Im not expecting anything but that they are competitive and that means a spread less than 10pts with a least a chance to win in the 4th quarter. Its on the road and Memphis is very aggressive so we are going to have to bring it.  Lets go Pistons.
     

  • Nov 29, 201210:54 am
    by Al

    Reply

    I wondered who gave Frank and F too? And speaking of that, Patrick why didn’t Frank get graded on last nights game, just wondering..

  • Nov 29, 201212:40 pm
    by kamal

    Reply

    Why did Daye get a D+ and English get a C?  What the hell did English do get a higher grade than Daye? Daye had 3 boards and 2 assists.

    Looks like our teachers are showing favoritism. 

    • Nov 29, 20121:56 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Maybe they’re grading Daye as a fourth year player and English as a rookie.

      • Nov 29, 20121:58 pm
        by Patrick Hayes

        Reply

        You got it.

        • Nov 29, 20122:35 pm
          by kamal

          Reply

          “The only Piston to play who didn’t make a noticeable positive impact tonight.”

          Doesn’t sound like it to me.  

      • Nov 29, 20125:13 pm
        by I HATE FRANK

        Reply

        if thats the case, why does a 9 year player like maxiell get pats on the back for effort, when drummond actually impacts the game more? recently maxiell should be getting all D’s based on that grading curve

        • Nov 30, 201212:46 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          That’s true. We need some sort of baseline for all these players for the grades to mean anything. 

  • Nov 29, 20122:31 pm
    by Desolation Row

    Reply

    We’ll be a playoff team (caveat: in the East) if 3 out of 4 of the following happens:

    - CV continues his level of production
    - JJ gets out of his slump
    - We move Maxiell’s expiring contract for a solid wingman who can defend
    - Drummond gets 30+ mins per game

  • Nov 29, 20123:07 pm
    by sebastian

    Reply

    Regarding Jerebko: I actually like Jerebko and think that he can be a contributing player, the first back-up SF, but if L. Frank is not going to play him, then maybe Joe should get Danny Ferry on the phone and inquire about the services of shooting guard, Anthony Morrow a lights out shooter, who is in the final year of a $4 million dollar per/year contract that the Hawks seem to not have much need for these days.
     

  • Nov 29, 20124:13 pm
    by Alek

    Reply

    My view of the grades and general thoughts:
    Pistons played great last night, CV too but I would like to come back in a month and see your comments about him. he is not our backup PF he is a bad bad player. Even the sun shines on dogs a** sometimes.
    JJ is not happy because is too competitive. I am really a big fan of JJ and wish him best of luck if he can get a trade to a contender. He will be idol if he get traded to Bulls; Boston …I don’t see him long term in Pistons (not with Frank for sure).
    Regrading BK dude is not a Point Gard period. Last night he missed at least another 2-3 assist in transition (Singler 2 times and Stuck) Why A- I really don’t understand. Heating 3′s on already dead opponent really .. A- ahh . This was a Stuck’s game and btw you might not admit he is better at PG then BK7 although in reality not a god NBA PG.
    Andre is our backup center not our permanent C (ever). Mark my comments that he will never be the star in this or any team (at least not if Monroe is still here since he will newer be PF). he will be solid player but not a star.
    NBA is different league now and if you really want to contend we need 1 3 and 4 desperately. I mean starting players not the backups.If you suck like now then its OK they can play together and might get to a playoff if they are healthy once in a while but not he contending. 
    I love Moose and Singler and Stuck as our Manu and this should be the core to build on.
    So JD and TG better get some good athletic stretch PF SF and PG later. I hate Miami and OKC really but their defense is unbelievable. They can switch on anything thats the team I would love to see here.
    Finally Frank please TG don’t extend his contract he is one dimensional coach without vision and sense for the game.  Dude got outcoached on many games because he cannot see out of the box. Developing players is more important rather then win now which is his aproach. With this team JMAx Tay Stuck eating minutes we will never get to playoffs so why no one knows. Trade possible but acording to last 4 years and the NBA demand I wouldn’t be too optimistic.
    Best,
    Alek

  • Nov 29, 20124:48 pm
    by Mark

    Reply

    When the team wins by 40, shouldn’t they all get A+’s?

  • Nov 29, 201210:25 pm
    by Mel

    Reply

    It funny how people have these opinions about Knights game, when he’s only played 82 games in the NBA. That’s right, when you include last years 66 games. So to judge my mans game as a point guard with just one seasons experience is silly. It took Steve Nash 4 years before he had his break out year and that was around 15 pts and 5 assist. Knight has proven to be willing to adjust his game if needed for the team. I agree the light bub has gone off for him, just play your game the floor general stuff will come naturally. He was trying to force everything now he’s acting off instinct. The assist part will bleed into his game more naturally now . He wants to be a great player and he works hard so he’ll get there. I would agree with some of you if that was not the case but with his work ethic in just 82 games it’s just too soon to judge. Next game he will officially be considered a 2nd year player.

    • Nov 30, 201212:48 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      “Next game he will officially be considered a 2nd year player.”

      Next game you may consider him a 2nd year player. But officially, he’s already been one for a while. And most players don’t play 82 games every season anyway. 

  • Nov 30, 20122:19 am
    by Mel

    Reply

    We’ll technically then, I’m not talking about most players I’m talking about Knight having experience as a rookie. Everyone worrying about Knight being a good point guard. Not too long ago fans have been jumping on Stuckey’s case about his point guard skills but now he’s the perfect point guard off the bench. Knight wiil be fine as our point guard. The whole point of my first comment was that Knight is young and it takes time to develop that why I used Nash as an example. Plus who needs a pure point guard when we’re averaging 21 assist per game now. 

    • Nov 30, 20128:39 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      True. The Pistons have been doing a great job getting everyone involved in setting each other up.

  • Nov 30, 20127:34 am
    by Derek

    Reply

    @Mel Nash is a really good example.  He was drafted to a Suns team that already had Jason Kidd and Kevin Johnson.  He lasted in Phoenix 2 years with pedesterian numbers before being shipped to Dallas.  It took him 2 seasons in Dallas to really take off. 

    BK7 is going to be a special player.  He’s got the tools for it.  He just needs the time.  I just found out he has a 37.5 inch vert.  Didn’t realize the kid had hops like that.  Toss together hops, speed, work ethic, shooting ability, greatly improved handles, and intelligence add time and opportunity and you’ve got a baller.

  • Nov 30, 201212:13 pm
    by RalphHau

    Reply

    With regards to the grades assigned to those that played, I am all for it and they do reflect the felling of mostly all, however, why grade those that did not play, especially Jonas.  Why give him an F, an F reflects failure and he had no control over it since the coach did not ask him to play.  So therefore when you are assigning grades, those that did not play do NOT merit and F, at least give them a DNP.

    • Nov 30, 20122:20 pm
      by MIKEYDE248

      Reply

      I think the F might be refering more to his attitude about not playing.

      I hate seeing DNP next to JJ’s name, because I think he could be one of the players of the future for the Pistons.  Although I see him being traded or given away and flurishing with another team.  Seen that happen way too often in Detroit.

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