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Pistons need to prove they are worth the time of fans

There won’t be grades tonight. It’s (almost) a holiday and, if you’re really into the grading thing, Greg Monroe is really good. Andre Drummond looks like he could be if he could ever play more than 18 minutes, even in a loss to a terrible team when most of the rotation players look lethargic and Charlie Villanueva, of all people, gets nearly 10 minutes of action. I think you can figure out the rest of the grades based on those sentences.

The Detroit Pistons organization has gone to great lengths to court fans. They’ve improved the facilities. They’ve improved the in-game entertainment. They have people working for the organization who have a long-term vision for running a successful, entertaining, fan-friendly business.

The basketball is the serious problem. And it’s not even about fans expecting this team to win a lot. Aside from a few of the deluded, no one approached this season expecting that the Pistons would return to playoff contention. Would it have been a nice surprise if the young talent on the roster collectively took a huge leap forward and made this team a playoff contender? Absolutely. But I think most fans would be extremely satisfied by pretty basic standards.

Are the young players developing? Is the team realizing that limited veterans, likable and useful though they may be, are much more useful if they’re turned into assets that help the team’s future?* Will the front office and ownership acknowledge, not even with words so much as with actions, that selling this team as a potential playoff contender so soon did everyone, from the coaches to the players to the fans, an incredible disservice?

* And, for that matter, is the team realizing that those veteran players are far more useful to teams who actually are contending than to teams that desperately need to develop young talent?

That’s not a long list. And if this team had been presented to fans with more reasonable expectations or fewer mixed messages, I don’t think the poor start would be nearly the issue it has become. If you have an owner who, even if he wasn’t doing it in a threatening way, says he thinks and wants the team in the playoffs, you will have an organization that reacts accordingly. I have no inside information about what conversations Tom Gores has had with Joe Dumars or Lawrence Frank. I don’t know if he really meant it when he said in the offseason that this team could make the playoffs this season. But, trying to put myself in the shoes of an employee who hears those words, I think I might take them to heart. If I were a coach, I might tend to play less mistake-prone veterans rather than gambling that a promising rookie could handle big minutes off the bat. If I were a GM, I think I’d be more hesitant to admit that there are players on the roster with guaranteed contracts that no other team wants who should not be on the roster (although I would find it hilarious to watch Dumars play the Larry David role in a conversation with Gores about the Villanueva/Gordon/Hamilton signings). If I were a player thinking about playoffs on a team that had no business thinking that way, I’d probably get more frustrated with losses than I would in an organization that was more realistic about its immediate fortunes while also looking to be competitive long-term. If I were a fan — and I am a fan — I would be upset that I’d been sold something the team isn’t delivering on.

This is going to come off like a straight rant, and I’m OK with that. There is actually practical evidence of bad teams doing the right things to get better. The Charlotte Bobcats are owned by Michael Jordan, who might be the most competitive person (and most fashionable person) in the history of humanity. Via ESPN Chicago, check out these comments from Jordan about the Bobcats:

He knows it won’t be a quick, easy process.

“Are we a playoff team? C’mon, we can’t expect that,” Jordan said Thursday. “But we need to get the ball rolling in the right direction. I’m not real happy about the record book scenario last year. It’s very, very frustrating.”

See how he did that? Most people hate losing, so I understand where Gores was coming from in his ‘playoffs’ comments. But, as Jordan demonstrates, you can hate losing and still be realistic. Charlotte came into the season with low expectations. They added more young players through the draft and a couple of stopgap veterans on the cheap, not with burdensome long-term contracts. When they made one trade for a burdensome long-term contract, they picked up an asset (a future first round pick … the team who helped them do that shall remain nameless). They knew they’d be young, they knew they wanted to play and develop their young players, so they made an outside-the-box hire and brought in a relatively unknown coach (by NBA standards at least) in Mike Dunlap whose specialty is — get this — young player development. The bar was set low for them, and guess what? They’ve rolled with their young players, errors and all, and started the season 6-4. I certainly don’t think that will hold up, but imagine being a fan of that team. If you’d spent an offseason hearing angry but realistic comments from front office personnel and ownership who hate losing every bit as much as fans do then your team had a strong start while playing intriguing young guys in big roles, you’d be extremely happy, right? The Bobcats set themselves up to exceed expectations.

And yes, it’s incredibly depressing that I resorted to using the Charlotte Bobcats for a comparison to what I consider one of the league’s elite franchises, the Pistons. But that’s where we’re at. No one paying attention faults the Pistons for rebuilding. All teams have to get there at some point. But the fact that they’ve never fully committed to a youth movement, to a tearing down of the team in order to build it up again, suggests they aren’t doing this the right way. This isn’t the Spurs, who had to just draft Tim Duncan and wait for David Robinson to return from injury to get good again. This isn’t the Celtics, who had to just wait for a former player to hand them Kevin Garnett for pennies on the dollar. The Pistons are in a traditional rebuilding situation, they’ve continued to rely on (and pay) limited veterans who ultimately have looked worse with less talent around them than they did on better teams, driving down their trade value, and they continue to give dual public messages, both stressing a practical long-term approach while also tossing out that ‘playoff’ word fairly frequently in the build-up to the season, which puts unreasonable expectations on coaches and players.

I’m not mad that the Pistons are bad. In fact, I thought the absolute best case scenario for them this season would be about a 35-37 win mark and it was far more likely they’d be in the 25-30 range. They’re a bad team, but not a remarkably bad one, and they at least have a few young players who are intriguing enough to continue paying attention. But as a fan, it’s incredibly frustrating to watch a player be as productive as Drummond has been in limited minutes and not be rewarded with more minutes. It undermines everything the coaching staff says publicly about earning minutes. Drummond, point blank, has out-played every big on the roster except Monroe in the scant minutes he’s been given. On top of that, the Pistons have been awful, including two ugly losses to a bad Orlando team. Their biggest weakness — defense — is an area where Drummond seems like he’d be the most help, and yet he’s still languishing in the same role he started the season in. In short, there is absolutely no possible excuse to not play him more.

I jumped the gun the other night when the Pistons beat the Celtics and I decided I’d move on from the Drummond issue as long as the Pistons were playing better. Dan Feldman is right. They are a team that has no shot at the postseason, and never really did, despite the preseason rhetoric. The largely non-competitive performances of the team to open this season — against both good teams and bad teams — has proven as much. Drummond’s development is vital to the long-term stability of this franchise. They were incredibly lucky a talent like him, even with some red flags, fell to them at the spot he did. If they get it wrong with him — and to this point, they’ve had little success in Dumars’ tenure developing players considered ‘projects’ who weren’t NBA-ready immediately — it will have dire long-term circumstances. Drummond is still raw. There are certainly rosters with better big man options in front of him where keeping him on the bench would’ve been more justifiable. The Pistons, clearly, are not one of those teams. Drummond is their second best big man, maybe their second best player already (at least on a per-minute basis in the limited role he’s played) and it’s clear to every objective eye that the Pistons are not playing him enough thus far.

I never intended to rant like this, especially on the eve of a holiday, and wish there was a more positive note to end on, but this game offered zero positives. On Sunday, I complimented Frank for having the team ready to put a beating on a very good Boston team after a disappointing loss. Following that up with an awful performance against a bad team is incredibly disheartening.


  • Nov 22, 201212:18 am



  • Nov 22, 201212:23 am


    this was a great piece of writing, not because it was a rant but because this was from a true fans heart.


    • Nov 22, 201212:24 pm
      by Piston Truth


      Yeah I agree this was the message we was looking for and to have a writer make this nice article stand out really help us out as fans! You know its not the fact that we couldnt make a playoff team its the fact that we cannot make a exciting product for our fans to come out and see, thats all I ask for. You look at teams like a Golden State, Portland, and hell even Sacremento they play some interesting basketball with their young talent and most of the time they dont even make the playoffs and were below that level. Joe D preached before the draft in the spring that he’s gotta get a ready made NBA player in the draft.. ok you get one AND YOU DONT PLAY HIM! Its getting sad to watch and I dont have the stomach to do it anymore if they dont get their act straight by mid december more fans will be jumping off the mini red piston fan wagon. I cant break everything down because its too much to write but pat said it all period to me I think we under achieved like the Detroit Lions this year HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

  • Nov 22, 201212:29 am
    by Haan


    An insightful comparison with Charlotte, one to which I’m especially receptive given my frustration with the Gordon/1st rounder trade.  It’s a night for reflection for Frank.  It looks like he’s in desperate straits with not many big moves available apart from featuring Drummond.  He’s made one creative move recently by starting Singler, whether by design or not.  I suppose he could let Stuckey try to run the offense again, but apart from that, he’s plum out of big moves this side of Drummond, unless it would be a general youth movement.  With his job in jeapardy to the point of the Orlando radio announcers commenting on it in the 4th quarter, now’s the time for him to roll the dice.  Could be interesting and fun if he does.

  • Nov 22, 201212:39 am
    by Mel


    Great Post, even though you said I’m not your Bro the other day, you said everything I would have said and more, and I thank you for it. Good Night !

  • Nov 22, 201212:40 am
    by sebastian


    A very thoughtfully written rant.

  • Nov 22, 201212:47 am
    by domnick


    i really want to add more about this but i dont know..

    what a holiday… horrible loss.. we also don’t have strong leaders in our roster right now.. we had lots of so-so players.. including the veterans.. and we are not doing it right…

    for me. this puts frank in a bad position… he had a good 21-21.. but following it up to 2-10.. seems to be pretty bad..

    our team is not as bad as washington but we are not doing any good either… for me.. lets make some adjustments… we need a real-leader and dump the useless ones.. if we want playoffs.. then we need to change our current roster!

    • Nov 22, 20121:18 am
      by Reaction


      You are right. Our current team is WORSE than Washington. People seem to forget how big of an impact Wall will have when he comes back. Not to mention a player like Nene who has yet to play because of an injury

  • Nov 22, 201212:56 am
    by MNM


     Gores needs to show me more as a owner that he is serious about getting this turned around. Lame-ass halftime segments and some new suites/lockeroom for players and fans means nothing..Kinda like CV and AD’s games.. Which by the way, I feel he could have shown he was someone intune with whats going on by giving those 2 their pink slips and send some sort of a message, but since it’s a money issue more than anything, we have to get used to the fact that he’s not much of a basketball fan as he is a business man.. We don’t have a Mark Cuban, as much as we may have wanted that type.  It’s still early I guess, but thats the feeling Im starting to get. I mean, when he talked about how he was gonna “learn from Joe and others as much as he hoped they’d learn from him” and how the feeling is that he wasn’t THAT in intune with the inner workings leaves much to be desired.. Again, I know it’s early in this new era, but as long as we are speaking openly..
      Brandon Knight has been pretty much awful and irrelevent thus far. I don’t know if it’s the organization that has put an onus on him becoming more of a traditional point gaurd when he was naturally more of a scorer that’s giving him issues…? It seems that he’s over thinking and a bit uncomfortable..Again I know it’s early, but maybe he’s more of a scoring point gaurd like a “poor mans” Russell Westbrook, where he runs (not all, but..) plenty of the offense, but scores much of the time. And no, not like Rodney Stuckey… Don’t go there. 6 years in, he still doesn’t have as good of range as Brandon does. I actually think Knight, if he was able to do what was natural for him, could still start somewhere down the line for a better team, where Stuckey still would come off the bench as a “energy guy”.  
      Andre Drummond and “not fully commiting to a rebuild” subject……. I’ve written enough about that in the past, so………Agreed.
      Look, for me, if they were scoring about 100 points a game and still losing most of them, then I could accept that.. At least THAT would be exciting, but…. Whatever. Good piece Patrick!

    • Nov 22, 20127:30 am
      by labatts


      Brandon Knight has been the biggest disappointment for me in a season full of them.  Honestly, what a difference a good point guard would make on this team.  I sure hope the Pistons didn’t miss on him.
      Funny thing:  I really hadn’t given Frank much thought this year.  watching the second half last night, my wife tells me “I am surprised the coach isn’t fired yet.  And then I think, yeah but can Joe Dumars really fire ANOTHER coach?  Will anyone worth anything ever coach here?  And then I realize how ridiculous it is to think that (to think that we shouldn’t get rid of bad assets because of previous mistakes).
      The problem is, the one – ONE!! – move Joe D has made this year was another mistake.  So we have a coach who is afraid to play the right players, a gm who is afraid / can’t make the right moves, and an owner who has yet to actually do anything productive (like get rid of coach. gm).  I really don’t think that nabbing Gladys Knight is ‘productive’.

      • Nov 22, 201210:04 am
        by MNM


        The amount of coaches has had over the years is absolutely rediculous. I’ve said before, if you look at when Gregg Popavich took over in San Antonio, look at how many coaches Detroit has had up to this last hire…It’s crazy… Do we realize that the longest tenured coach Detroit has had since Chuck Daly was Flip Saunders, and he has here for 3 years… 3 years…Some (Curry, Kuester) were wrong from the get go, but at some point you’ve gotta let a coach stick around and coach and look at the players.. In the end, players play.. Detroit doesn’t have enough of them.. Simple as that.

  • Nov 22, 20121:04 am
    by 313


    Can some EMAIL Joe Dumars and Tom Gores this!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Patrick NAILED IT!! Instead of teh notes from the game in Free Press and Detroit News this should get put in there(maybe Im going too far..lol) but as a loyal Piston fan from the Bad Boys to that HORRIBLE Teal Phase to Going To Work some body needs to start being accountable for this bad team!

    • Nov 22, 201212:27 pm
      by Piston Truth


      Hell give me the teal years any day now at least we had a superstar and made some playoff apperances ijs this damn team make the teal team look like the 96 bulls team.

    • Nov 22, 201212:37 pm
      by David


      There…emailed them both. You’re welcome. All playoffs from here on out.

  • Nov 22, 20121:15 am
    by Reaction


    I honestly couldn’t have phrased it as eloquently as you did. This is what I have been trying to point out. The Pistons need to do work on their current roster, coaching, and management in general. They aren’t a playoff team. It was a stupid idea to trade BG with a 1st round pick for Maggette even if it meant to get rid of BG’s contract. NO ONE good will sign with the Pistons in there current state so there was no reason to clear cap space and lose a pick. We need to trust the draft.. Find a new player development coach (if we even have one).. etc. 

    • Nov 22, 20129:35 am
      by Jamie


      I think we need to stress the fact that no FAs with any value will come here, making our 2013 draft position huge. We were lucky enough that Monroe and Drummond fell as far as they did compare to some mock drafts. I understand its only 12 games but picking at the bottom of the lottery isn’t going to improve this team. With the outlook of this season looking as bleak as possible, a top 3 pick is likely at this point. The fact this team hasn’t lived up to unrealistic expectations could actually help in the long run. You add a star wing player to our young bigs and watch how much more interest we received from quality FAs

  • Nov 22, 20121:24 am
    by thatswhatsheedsaid


    this is so, so, so sweet. im from/live in New Zealand so the game was on in the middle of the day and was following it at work. Went for a ciggie break at at the start of the third and thought theyd pull it back. Came back to my desk and lost my shit. Bitched about it to the missus al the way home in the car, then said “I deserve better than this after 20 years” and asked her for a hug. So i was just nodding and pointing at the screen the whole time I was reading this. Awesome piece.

  • Nov 22, 20121:28 am
    by jerrific


    Give Monroe more shots. It’s unacceptable that our best player is only taking eleven shots when we have so many guys jacking crap left and right. This has been a theme with this team and I just don’t understand it. Does Frank just not realize how good Monroe is? Does he not realize how bad everyone else has been? Are they just not calling enough plays for him, or are our guards just that selfish? I seriously don’t understand it, I could see him averaging twenty points a game if he just got enough looks. 

    And for God’s sake PUT DRUMMOND IN THE GAME. I’ve been trying really hard to stay away from the whole “free Andre Drummond” camp,  more out of sheer annoyance from reading it in every other comment than from the merits of (actually) playing him (which are pretty evident.) We got manhandled by a 6’9″ PF who’s averaging 5.9 PPG on the season. Isn’t this the reason we wanted a talented seven footer in the first place?

    How can our two best assets be our two most underutilized? If Miami refused to use Lebron and Wade they would suck too!

  • Nov 22, 20121:41 am
    by Mikko


    I`m from Finland and I usually watch Pistons games at morning before I go to work. I tried to watch this one too but couldn`t take it after Magic`s 3rd quarter run. This was really bad. Almost as shameful as the loss the other week to Magic at home. 

    I really felt the Pistons didn`t deserve my time today.

  • Nov 22, 20121:49 am
    by Tom Y.


    Wow, great post. I wish I could lock Dumars and Frank in a room and have you shout this shit at them.

  • Nov 22, 20122:09 am
    by Tom Y.


    I’m beginning to get a feeling Frank may not last long. If I understand correctly, he’s Gores’ guy, so once Gores’ team realize their mistake, Dumars will be all too happy to let him go.

  • Nov 22, 20122:12 am
    by Travis


    Why don’t a hundred or so Pistons fans stage a “Free Drummond” picket line rally at a home game at the Palace? As a business owner, that would catch my attention. The local media and ESPN would certainly cover the protest before showing highlights of the game that night.

    In poliitics, I’ve seen protest staged for far less of this worthy cause. Seriously, consider staging a protest. You don’t even have to buy a ticket. 

  • Nov 22, 20122:26 am
    by Gareth Masters


    Hear, hear. I didnt see last nights game – but to wake up and read about a 21-0 run ?! Utterly unacceptable. Oh and 2-10 is the same as 4-20.

    • Nov 22, 201212:51 pm
      by David


      It’s also the same as 20-100…

  • Nov 22, 20122:43 am
    by Jakob Eich


    Great great stuff, Patrick! Speaking from a fan’s soul!

  • Nov 22, 20123:56 am
    by Henry


    Love reading your stuff, but the black letter on red background is hurting my eyes.  Am I the only one finding it hard to read with the red background?
    I get the Pistons color motif but can you pick a different color to make it easier on the eyes?
    Just a suggestion.

    • Nov 22, 20127:02 am
      by oats


      The background isn’t red. The article titles and the boxes for the comment section are red, but the background is white. If you are on Firefox and have Adblock on it turns the background red for some bizarre reason. You should be able to click on the little Adblock logo on your browser window and add an exception for PistonPowered on it. The adds on this site aren’t so bad anyways, none of them are those annoying ones with sound.

      • Nov 22, 20121:03 pm
        by Henry


        Thanks for the tip!   Now I can read it like everybody else without getting an eye strain!

  • Nov 22, 20124:42 am
    by Ryan P


  • Nov 22, 20125:09 am
    by gmehl


    “Drummond, point blank, has out-played every big on the roster except Monroe in the scant minutes he’s been given. On top of that, the Pistons have been awful, including two ugly losses to a bad Orlando team. Their biggest weakness — defense — is an area where Drummond seems like he’d be the most help, and yet he’s still languishing in the same role he started the season in. In short, there is absolutely no possible excuse to not play him more.”

    The only excuse i could possibly come up with playing Maxiell so much instead of Drummond is they would want to raise his trade value. That is the ONLY possible reason i could come up with and if that was in fact the reason and it eventuated then i would be content with it if Maxiell could somehow snag us a 1st rounder. At worst Drummond will start around the allstar break and we get two 1st rounders going into next season. Draft Shabazz and either a good perimeter defender or 3 point shooter or better yet a combo of both. Trade Stuckey and trade Prince and lets get the REAL rebuilding process started.

    • Nov 22, 201210:01 am
      by sebastian


      gmehl, not to get off topic, but have you seen Shabazz Muhammad play. I don’t mean any harm, but this guy is the 21st century’s version of Jack “Goose” Givens, the left-handed SG who played for the ’78 Kentucky Wildcats, when they beat Duke in the NCAA Championship.
      Givens had a great game that night. Scoring 41 or 44 points, if I recall correctly. Givens only played two years in the NBA, scoring a total of 1040 points.
      This Muhammad kid plays just like Givens. His game is not going to cut in the NBA, in my most humble opinion.

      • Nov 22, 201212:41 pm
        by T Casey



        I’d have to agree on Muhammad. I haven’t seen much of him so I won’t make any bold proclamations, but I don’t see much upside to his game either.

  • Nov 22, 20125:22 am
    by Zekekhaseli


    I watched the game in the morning (from Indonesia). I screamed at the TV. Too tired to get mad. Sent tweet to Gores telling I give up until they plauy Dre more minutes. I slept. Woke up to this reading. Felt relieve. This is much2 better than the writting of detroitnews & freep. Kudos Patrick

  • Nov 22, 20127:39 am
    by Vic


    I won’t go back to being obnoxious like I was after seeing how this season was going to go the first couple of games.
    I’ll just choose to believe that this is a high level tanking job, and that this season will end with Bill Laimbeer and Shabazz Muhammad/ Marcus Smart in the Pistons sights.

    I gave up on seeing a good basketball product weeks ago when I realized they were treating Drummond like a retard on the short bus, “bringing him along slowly” 

  • Nov 22, 20127:46 am
    by hirobeats


    If Brandon Knight turns has another off game on Friday, I’m going to have to officially get off of his bandwagon, and apologize to everyone at Detroit Bad boys.com for constantly ragging on him. Turns out he may not be that good afterall

    • Nov 22, 201212:33 pm
      by Piston Truth


      Yeah I might be joining you idk if its frank or the system he’s in I would hate to turn on the kid but he’s not getting it done just trade him for a scoring guard like a john wall

  • Nov 22, 20129:04 am
    by Bugsygod


    Good rant.  Agree with everything you said.  Max minutes should be way down because there is a player better than him behind him in Drummond. so many great coaches say the key to coaching is to be flexible.  flexible to make your game plans match the talent on the team.  
    So now what happens?  We will have major cap space this summer an another high lottery pick. Do we trust dumars with that cap space?  What if he makes another bg/cv mistake … Ugh!  Does he acquire players for franks system (whatever that is)?  I’ve lost all respect and confidence in frank.  I know dumars has won before, made some good FA signings in the past and has Drafted well.  Frank?  Does he have ANY successes on his résumé??  
    i think I was the first to yell Fire Frank this year for not playing Drummond.  I’m still yelling the same thing Fire Frank.    And I think we will have no problem ever getting a coach even with dumars record firing coaches because most coaches are ego maniacs an think they can be the savior of teams and players. Charlie got ten minutes and Drummond got 18. That’s just STUPID!  Drummnod should have had ALL of Charlie’s minutes.  Great way to see what happens in extended minutes if thsts Franks concern that Drummond is only good in limited minutes.  Also by extending his minutes it can help with his conditioning to play longer minutes going forward.  What is Drummond doing wrong??  Smh

  • Nov 22, 20129:25 am
    by ryan


    What an ugly, ugly loss. I really don’t know who to blame for this mess but after starting the year feeling good about Lawrence Frank I don’t feel that way anymore. Of the big moves he’s made starting Kyle Singler seems like a solid one and not playing Andre Drummond more seems inexplicably stupid.
    I do appreciate how well Jason Maxiell has played at times and have to tip my hat to Frank (and a contract year) for getting more out of Jason than I thought he had. At the same time we’re not a contender we’re a team that’s supposed to be building for the future so unless we’re trying to drive Maxiell’s value up so we can trade him getting more out of him should be low on the list of priorities. Getting more out of Andre Drummond on the other hand should be priority number three behind only Greg Monroe and Brandon Knight.
    I would be totally okay with our record if we sucked or were getting hammered by better teams but that’s just not the case. We played OKC really tough and they’re a very good team. I really liked our effort in both games against them. Then we have these loses to Orlando… our guys should be able to show up drunk and beat Orlando. So what I’m saying is I can’t stand losing because of laziness or stupidity and I don’t know how to explain our record without resorting to one or both.

  • Nov 22, 20129:26 am
    by ryan


    Oh and happy thanksgiving to the Americans who post here. Hope everyone has a good holiday.

  • Nov 22, 20129:37 am
    by Bugsygod


    Just watched the game on dvr … What horrible coaching in the third. 

  • Nov 22, 201210:00 am
    by Bugsygod


    When two teams have equal or close to equal talent the coach makes the difference

  • Nov 22, 201210:38 am
    by D_S_V


    I only hope this game finally showed the GM how many useless pieces we have on this roster. Frank has garnered enough (deserved) criticism, but last night he threw alllll the shit he had at the wall and none of it stuck. If this doesn’t prove to Joe that our roster just doesn’t have it, I don’t know what it will take. Great post, Patrick. I was going to say the same thing last night but I was just too drunk.
    Monroe doesn’t get more scoring opportunities because the defense respects absolutely no one else on the Pistons. If he had anyone to space the floor for him he’d have more room, but they were brick chucking last night so whenever he got the ball he was covered with help ready.
    To sum up my view of last night (this post has created something of a support group feel to it for tortured Pistons fans), I was visiting the parents and beforehand I was gushing to my dad about Andre Drummond like he was a perfect new girlfriend. After watching the 3rd quarter, my dad, in a very snarky manner, claimed, “well I certainly have a lot more reason to keep watching!” He’s the typical Detroit fair weather fan, and a great example of how folks in that camp (separate from us die-hards) don’t care to waste their time watching this product of basketball.

  • Nov 22, 201210:44 am
    by apa8ren9


    Excellent post and it mirrors the feelings that I have.   We were prepared to pick the big man and he landed to us and he is not playing.  We are not competitive and someone needs to be held accountable.  I was all gung ho and buying into the crap, so I put down my money and bought some season tickets.   Now my tune is changed.  This is absolutely unacceptable.   You CANNOT under ANY circumstance have a 21-0 run to ORLANDO with that roster and players on the floor.  IT CAN NOT happen.   The game against Orlando last friday looked like a shock game.  There is no one there.  And Im stupid for showing up.  The only people there are die hards and the people who got free tickets.  I thought 35-37 wins were attainable but its not.  Something has to change.  Im thankful that I have my family and I am thankful that I was blessed enough to get tickets this year.  I hope everyone has a good Thanksgiving.  /end rant

    • Nov 22, 201211:16 am
      by Vic


      Wow, season tickets. I’m sorry.

      Try to trade them in for next years… 

  • Nov 22, 201211:25 am
    by Ozzie-Moto


    Unfortunately Detroit you have  being sold this same load of goods over and over for the last 5 years …
    I been on the same rant. Really can’t understand why any owners,  fan and especially sports writer would put up with, it it’s been pure bull.  I doubt intentionally,  I don’t think JD is a dishonest man but obviously he is living in a delusional world that a lot of people have enabled  

  • Nov 22, 201212:28 pm
    by james


    absolutely right!!!!

  • Nov 22, 201212:45 pm
    by MrBlockedShot


    Wow guys, it has been a pain in the ass to watch this game. I got to watch it in Spain through LP while I was having lunch and I almost lost the appetite. I was really pissed off at our team. In fact, IMHO I think most of us share Patricks’ thoughts about the team. There was a strange hype in the begining of the preseason about the team being capable of earning the 8th seed and making it to the postseason since a looong time ago (at times one could read some players making statements that it was almost clinched…remember JJ? ). People started talking about Monroe’s chances for being an allstar (which I do agree), Knight’s development and him being a key player for the team in his second season…well, a lot of (let’s say it this way) very optimistic predictions we would had loved to come true. But, for all of us who have been watching the team since the Orlando Summer League, things didn’t get off to a good start. Our rookies looked great but Knight was awful most of the time, not good news, but…who cared? It was not even preseason. But then we entered the preseason, and a lot of bad feelings about the team again came back from last season: Prince and Max playing bad and too much, Monroe/Knight development taking a step back, Stuckey, CV&Daye…But ok, no problem, it was only the preseason. All of us were dazzled with Drummond’s flashes and that was all it really mattered (at least for the fans). And now we are 2-9 and have been battered by a below-average team, with two disastrous quarters (the third might be the worst I can remember). Coaching has not been great (to say the least). Coach LF sometimes seems to play against himself, with strange decissions maybe no fan will ever understand. Ok, we can live with it, but is there somebody instead of him on the court able of harnessing this team in the proper way? Mmm…I would say NO WAY. Our backcourt is actually awful and disastrous: silly turnovers, bad decissions, no defense at all, etc). We don’t move the ball well, our guards are turnover-prone, too selfish and bad defenders. Result? We only play decently on fastbreaks..half-court game is a total mess. And that is the main problem for the team to me. Difficult to find a solution for this total mess. I could think of a couple offhand: develop Drummond/Singler/English at any cost (benching/trading Maxiell, Stuckey) and get some PG capable of making his teammates better (please no turnovers, assists, good ball movement) and mentoring Knight. 
    Greetings from Spain

  • Nov 22, 20121:16 pm
    by Mel


    I wish people stop talking about the talent yeah our talent isn’t the greatest but Bobcats doesn’t either. We went 21-21 last half of the season last year. We have more talent on the team this year than last. What we don’t have is player development. Most of our team stayed for the summer and got worse out side of Tay, Max, and Monroe. Seems to me since Franks been the coach CV, Daye, Stuckey,and Knight have declined.
    It’s funny I watch those Piston practice commercials and theres one with Stuckey get bumped by a trainer while he’s making a layup. The trainer is barely hitting him, it’s like he’s tapping him. Then I watch the game and watch stuck barrel in for one of those layups gets hit and totally misses the layup. I just laughed cause they just showed the commercial just minutes prior to the play. If Doug Collins had this team I bet they would win games. He knows how to pull everything out of his players to over achieve. We need a COACH.

    • Nov 22, 20121:53 pm
      by Vic


      Agreed. This team has had a great talent infusion since the BG/CV fiasco. It’s how the tools are being/not being used. They just picked up 3 shooters and 2 paint defenders but Frank refuses to use them because they are rookies and our can’t shoot guards/undersized PFs are better at his “process”

  • Nov 22, 20122:30 pm
    by Mark


    The Bobcats are essentially doing what I envisioned the Pistons doing this year. Playing their young talent and surprising teams early in the year.

    The beginning of the season is the time to play your young guys, as the vet teams aren’t settled in yet, and no one is familiar with the rookies, so you can get wins early catching teams by surprise.

    No one was surprised by Maxiell and Tayshaun. The Pistons basically made it easy on opponents by starting the season with the same below avg lineup as last year, that every team in the league had already figured out. 

    I thought we could be 5-5, 6-4 after 10 games too, had we started Drummond from day one, and actually used the good shooters we acquired like English and Middleton. 

  • Nov 22, 20122:40 pm
    by Mone


    They should’ve hired Bill Lambeer…

    • Nov 23, 201212:08 am
      by Mike


      Lambeer would be great for a young team building with some young talent at PF & C.  He certainly knows how to win, doesn’t shine the bull… wouldn’t tolerate the turnovers, wouldn’t tolerate the bad basic defense, and clearly could do better than Sir Frank has – by at least not – watching as our players one by one lose their confidence and skills.  Who’s next on the decline?  Monroe?

      Charlie V averaged more than 16 PPG in 26 minutes for Milwaukee, BG…, Stuckey and JJ both appear lost out there these days and Will Bynum is allowed to go ball hogging in turnover land for no apparent reason.  Brandon Knight has regressed significantly in scoring and turnovers and continues to do so right when we need fewer turnovers and more scoring.  And BTW someone should tell Brandon Knight that increasing assists is NOT good if large increases in turnovers goes with it.

      Frank is playing a 10 man rotation when there are not 10 players that deserve minutes no matter how bad they play.  

      To paraphrase, Frank recently rhetorically asked in response to a question from the press “What are we going to do with Will B if Stuckey plays backup point?”, right after Will B had a 1/6 shooting night with 4 turnovers or so… wow, Frank should know the answer to that question and NOT put it out there in the press that he doesn’t know the answer.  Bench Will Bynum until the ball hog can create assists without massive turnover numbers.  Wil B learns best from the a good benching… he has proven that over the years.  

      Stuckey can produce 15 points per 32 minutes and will share the ball given the right guidance and coaching. 

      And on the subject of Andre Drummond…So this is how you bring a talented young big along?  Teach him how to lose and put him on the floor with players that probably won’t be in the league in a year or two and who’s only interest or BB IQ appears to be in padding there scoring statistics?  

      This is how you CAREFULLY, SLOOOWLY bring the young man along?  MY GOD JIM ARE YOU INSANE? (Star Trek quote seemed appropriate).  So, No matter how well Andre plays his time on the floor only can go DOWN if he does something wrong.  The kid scored 22 points in about 24 minutes against OKC and the next game the coach yanked him after 5 minutes…

      If Dumars and Frank are doing what they are doing to show case the older guys for the trade deadline, they both should be fired.  That will not work, there is not a veteran starter in the bunch.

      By not playing their second round picks this year, and not playing there free agent Ctrl-V Euro Big this year (we’ll see), the Pistons have tacitly admitted those were mistakes too.  Even if they were long shots you expect to hit once or twice with them.  You would expect more than 2 good draft choices out of ALL THE MOVE MADE IN THE LAST 6 YEARS.  Joe D’s record on BB moves is as bad as Rodney Stuckey’s first 23 shots this season… Wow.   And Stuckey drought lasted 2 weeks not 6 YEARS.

      Dumars knows he is treading on this ice with Gore, and if Frank is Gore’s guy as stated elsewhere (Joe better hope so)…  Obviously Frank is on a very short leash (as he should be) especially if there is anybody out there in the bushes that has the skill.  Sure would be nice to see Bill L leading this team…

      We won’t even talk about the Millic draft… Sir Joe will have eternity to live that one down.  Or the AI for Chauncey move, we’ll just act like that never happened.  

      Maybe Joe D is afraid that Bill Lambeer would succeed…  and Joe would have to deal with a coach that demands excellence from everyone on the team even the GM.  Well Tom Gore could do that right now.  Start with eliminating L Frank… and lets go from there.  The stands will only get emptier otherwise – speaking of wise – Tom Gore had better get up on his BB IQ quick or get someone very close to him that is.  This languishing near the bottom of the Eastern Conference has gotten old and can’t be good for the $$$ value of the team… Tommy… Tommy, come on out and play.

  • Nov 23, 20123:01 am
    by Mel


    I wish we could get Laimbeer but he’s the New York Liberty’s Coach now. Woodsen and Laimbeer are on the Big stage now while we dwell in the Little league, Bad News Bears Style.

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