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Andre Drummond is the Pistons’ best defensive hope, but they barely use him while allowing Knicks to score 121 points

Detroit Pistons 100 Final
Recap | Box Score
121 New York Knicks
Jason Maxiell, PF 24 MIN | 2-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 4 REB | 0 AST | 4 PTS | -7

He made both his shots, but didn’t really rebound well. He wasn’t awful, but he looked replaceable. Hint, hint.

Tayshaun Prince, SF 33 MIN | 3-11 FG | 0-0 FT | 5 REB | 3 AST | 6 PTS | -22

Carmelo Anthony had his way with Prince, which had more to do with Melo than anything. But Prince also shot poorly and was mediocre in other areas.

Kyle Singler, SF 29 MIN | 5-7 FG | 4-5 FT | 3 REB | 1 AST | 16 PTS | -6

Singler was the floor spacer the Pistons need him to be. A Knicks team that moves the ball well, though, exposed his foot-speed issues.

Greg Monroe, C 30 MIN | 4-8 FG | 4-5 FT | 5 REB | 7 AST | 12 PTS | -15

Monroe nearly had as many assists as shot attempts, and it’s encouraging he kept making the right and unselfish reads. But four turnovers is too many, and he wasn’t much of a defensive presence.

Brandon Knight, PG 34 MIN | 8-13 FG | 2-2 FT | 2 REB | 5 AST | 21 PTS | -16

Knight had a really nice game. He picked his spots well, shot efficiently and set up teammates wile turning the ball over only twice. Still, Raymond Felton gave him some trouble on the other end. And in each of the last two games, Knight has too casual getting an inbound pass, resulting in turnovers.

Charlie Villanueva, PF 19 MIN | 7-15 FG | 0-2 FT | 4 REB | 1 AST | 17 PTS | -11

Hey, 17 points in 19 minutes is nothing to sneeze at, but those numbers are at least somewhat empty. They were boosted by garbage time, and Villanueva’s defense and rebounding today didn’t counteract everything we already know about him.

Austin Daye, PF 4 MIN | 1-1 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 1 AST | 2 PTS | 0

Daye played the final four minutes in case you’re tracking what it would take for him to enter a game. Kim English also played the final four minutes, but we already know he’s not buried so far on the bench that he can’t enter blowouts. For Daye, it was slightly revealing.

Corey Maggette, SF 17 MIN | 2-5 FG | 4-5 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 9 PTS | -2

Not bad or anything, but why is a so-so-at-best 33-year-old on an expiring contract playing so much for a rebuilding team?

Andre Drummond, C 19 MIN | 1-6 FG | 0-0 FT | 11 REB | 0 AST | 2 PTS | -9

Drummond was a defensive force. Carmelo Anthony was 6-for-6 until Drummond blocked Melo’s layup – a play I doubt any other Piston could have made. Add a few rebounds that fit the same description, and Drummond could have made a serious impact on this game. Of course, he barely played – especially considering his playing time was boosted by the final four minutes of garbage time. Drummond was shaky offensively, but his defense warranted more playing time, and that would have given him an opportunity to develop his offense.

Will Bynum, PG 14 MIN | 3-6 FG | 3-3 FT | 0 REB | 2 AST | 9 PTS | -5

Did a nice job of attacking the rim.

Rodney Stuckey, PG 13 MIN | 1-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 2 PTS | -12

Stuckey played just 2:38 in the second half. His total contribution in that time: one turnover. Stuckey’s production has varied between non-existent and poor. Today, it was the former.

Jonas Jerebko, PF DNP COACH’S DECISION

For the first time this season, Jerebko didn’t play. It looks like his poor play has finally cost him a rotation spot. Unfortunately, it went to Villanueva instead of giving more minutes to Drummond and/or Viacheslav Kravtsov, who probably deserves a look sooner than later.

 Lawrence Frank, HEAD COACH

Frank is beginning to realize veterans like Stuckey and Jerebko might not have all the answers. Unfortunately, giving their minutes to Maggette and Villanueva was not the solution I had in mind. Before the game became a slopfest, I liked the Pistons’ ball movement, for whatever that’s worth.

Most Valuable Player

Not only did Carmelo Anthony score 29 points in 32 minutes, he had three assists and generally kept the ball moving. Tayshaun Prince’s defense wasn’t necessarily poor, but when Melo is playing like this, it’s tough to stop his Knicks.

X-Factor

While the Pistons defense was mostly terrible, Andre Drummond had 11 rebounds, three blocks and a steal. So why did he play less than Charlie Villanueva did?

That was… comforting

Whether it was J.R. Smith (15 points, 10 rebounds and five assists), Steve Novak (5-of-7 on 3-pointers) or Rasheed Wallace (15 points), plenty of Knicks have reason to feel especially good after snapping a two-game losing streak.

111 Comments

  • Nov 25, 20123:48 pm
    by Ozzie-Moto

    Reply

     Drummond and Monroe were not on the floor together for even 1 Min.  So beyond Stupid it is hard to imagine. It is like the coach works for the other teams and it his job to make sure we don’t even have a chance to win   Frank is a HACK 

    • Nov 25, 20125:36 pm
      by T Casey

      Reply

      Calling it puzling would be generous. Memphis had a ton of success going big against them. Obviously we aren’t nearly the team that Memphis is, but you can’t jus tnot use your best lineup. Maxiell wasn’t even playing that well tonight, yet he got 5 more minutes than Drummond who clearly outproduced him tonight.  

  • Nov 25, 20124:07 pm
    by Visions

    Reply

    Frank is a very limited coach in seeing the whole picture. He is rigid, closed minded, inflexible and set in a pattern or patterns, even when losing there is no awakening. He can’t see the long range potential of this team. He refuses to or is unware of empowering his player. Why did it take so long for Drummond and Monroe to play together??? Yes… it is stupid…but if you are limited in seeing the long range picture.. it’s ok from Frank’s coaching perspective.

  • Nov 25, 20124:08 pm
    by piston moribund

    Reply

    ?????????WTF.  Reasons why this is happening.
    1.  Bath salts.
    2.  Crack.
    3.  Frank knows how crap the organization is and wants to get fired.  Go Brian Hill.

  • Nov 25, 20124:17 pm
    by Visions

    Reply

    Yes he’s doing an excellent job to get Fired!!!!!!!!!!

  • Nov 25, 20124:19 pm
    by bball4224

    Reply

    Can’t admit that Charlie actually played decent tonight? If he had played like he had the rest of the season I’d see your point, but he didn’t so that comment was unnecessary.

    • Nov 25, 20125:17 pm
      by RationalSportsFan

      Reply

      Throwing up 15 shots in 19 minutes (most of which came in garbage time), while managing to make 7 of them is nothing special.

      • Nov 25, 20126:41 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        Although, I think he pretty much just sunk AD’s chances in the PP stretch 4 competition.

    • Nov 26, 201210:03 am
      by Tyrone

      Reply

      CV played a good game and should be given credit.  He played none garbage minutes in the first half.  There is no reason why CV31 can not come off the beach and give us 10 to 15 points per game on the regular.  Also for the record I though that he played well with Drummond. 

  • Nov 25, 20124:22 pm
    by Ozzie-Moto

    Reply

    Half of Drummond’s minutes were in garbage time ..  he was in less that 10 min that might have mattered none with the first team. You might think Frank might learn something from the game before …  

    • Nov 25, 20125:13 pm
      by Mark

      Reply

      You would think that he would’ve learned, but when you’re addicted to bath salts its hard to think straight I guess.

  • Nov 25, 20124:23 pm
    by RationalSportsFan

    Reply

    So much for playing time being determined by merit.

  • Nov 25, 20124:29 pm
    by Raphael

    Reply

    Frank is the most inept coach in the league.  He refuses to play Drummond and Monroe together, continues to play bynum far to much and is grossly limited in his game time adjustments.  He is so far over his head I almost feel embarrassed for him. 

  • Nov 25, 20124:53 pm
    by swish22

    Reply

    Make

  • Nov 25, 20125:03 pm
    by Gareth Masters

    Reply

    Charlie’s best game for MONTHS tonight. But he just shouldn’t be out there as he has nothing to offer this organisation going forward.

  • Nov 25, 20125:03 pm
    by pokerpro932

    Reply

    UUUUUh guys,when should have Drummond played.The Knicks are playing really small with Carmelo on the 4,so if Andre and Moose play together,one of them will have to guard Melo…

    • Nov 25, 20125:16 pm
      by Mark

      Reply

      And Monroe/Drummond guarding Melo would’ve been worse than Maxiell/Tay in what way?

      Maxiell/Tay gave up 29 pts in 32 min to Melo. Do you really think it would’ve been worse with Monroe guarding him? How much more could he have scored in 32 min?

      At least we would’ve had an advantage on offense, where Monroe could’ve abused Melo in the post and Drummond gotten every rebound, with only 1 true big in the game for NY. 

      • Nov 25, 20125:36 pm
        by gmehl

        Reply

        Or even better we could of had Melo in foul trouble and sitting on the bench by exploiting the lack of height.

    • Nov 25, 20126:42 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Yeah because winners try to mirror the opposite lineup rather than put their own best lineup on the floor. Oh, wait…

    • Nov 25, 20129:25 pm
      by Vic

      Reply

      Small ball is a useless trend, it only works because certain teams do it with all world players that they happen to have. 
      DOn Nelson invented small ball, and he said he only did it because he had bad teams with no good bigs.
      Mostvof the effectiveness of  small ball is that you can trick the other team into trying to match you instead of slowing it down and bashing you in the post.

      • Nov 25, 201210:03 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        The team with better players will usually win, whether playing “small ball” or “big ball”. There is a typical set of positions because usually the skill sets of bigs and smalls compliment each other well. But as long as you can get a complimentary set of skills on the floor, who cares how big the players are.

    • Nov 25, 20129:57 pm
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      small ball is effective….

      when you have Lebron, Durant, or Ruby Gay …. type players other than that… its pointless 

  • Nov 25, 20125:04 pm
    by IQ

    Reply

    At this point Tom Goes should have seen enough to tell that Lawrence Frank is not the guy. He has no clue what it is to coach at this level and was merely extraordinarily blessed in his time with the Nets to have a hall of famer like Jason kidd coaching the team…I mean plyaing point guard.His rotations are assinine his defensive schemes (which are supposed to be his calling card) are questionable and his offinsive system non existent. Personnally, though I dont believe in rookies making demands  if Frank isnt fired and this trend continues  I dont think a trade request by Drummond and his representation is out of the question. This man has no clue and it is time to pull the trigger he is not going to develope talent be it Drummond, Middleton,English or any rookie for that matter  or this team at any point.  He simply needs to be replaced.

    • Nov 25, 20125:17 pm
      by Mark

      Reply

      Exactly. Its ironic because they guy who Frank got the job over, Woodson, is now the lucky benefactor of having Kidd to make him look better than he really is, lol.

      • Nov 25, 20125:27 pm
        by T Casey

        Reply

        Woodson is a much better coach than Frank. Even without Kidd, last year he had them playing over .600 basketball with Lin, Melo, and Amare healthy. In Atlanta he got the Hawks to perform better in just about every year he was there, taking them from the bottom of the east all the way to a 50 win team, despite not having a quality starting pg and star players who’s chemistry was often in question.

        Frank, on the other hand, has coach 2 straight teams to the worst starts in their franchise’s history and his teams do better without him than with him. And the Nets were fresh off of back-to-back championhip appearances before he got there and then immediately plummetted after his arival.

        In their two stops apiece as head coaches, Woodson has shown himself to be be a far better head coach than Frank. It’s not even close.

        • Nov 25, 20125:51 pm
          by jerrific

          Reply

          Woodson has had way more talent on his teams than Frank has on this one. Not saying Frank would be as successful as Woodson was with those teams, but I really doubt Woodson would be fairing much better with this one. We’re pretty bad regardless of who calls the plays. 
           

        • Nov 25, 20125:57 pm
          by Mark

          Reply

          Woodson is a much better coach than Frank, but my point was more that both rely on veterans to succeed. In ATL he didn’t start out good. It wasn’t until he got Bibby, who was still a really good starting PG at the time, that ATL started to turn things around. He rode the veteran backcourt of Bibby/Johnson to success. In NY he had Melo and Chandler last year. Now he’s got Kidd too.

          I think both coach’s know the game and if you give them talented vets who can coach themselves, they are both good enough to just manage the game into winning seasons. But I question whether Woodson could do the same with a young team like the Pistons. I think we would’ve seen similar results as with Frank. Though I do think Woodson would at least be playing Drummond more, maybe even starting him. So I much rather have Woodson right now, BUT I really don’t want either. I’d rather have Van Gundy.

          • Nov 25, 20125:59 pm
            by Mark

            Frank was good in NJ until all his good vets left. Then you saw his real coaching ability (0-16), which we are seeing again now with Detroit.

  • Nov 25, 20126:21 pm
    by Bugsygod

    Reply

    Well something needs to happen because this is bordering on ….. BUFFOONERY!!  Drummond is easily your most talented defender an your supposed to be a D coach but you don’t play him??   Can someone just ask frank what Drummond is doing wrong??  I thought last game showed everything.    I mean is he not practicing good?  Is he late to meetings/practices?  Does he not know the play book?  Does he keep parking in franks spot?   This big talented PRODUCTIVE guy we have been asking for who has been playing well and PRODUCING more than the guy in front of him!  If Dumars has to go then he has to go too. But I KNOW frank has to go.    inflexible. unimaginative. Stubborn. Non winner.  

    • Nov 25, 20126:27 pm
      by IQ

      Reply

      Im actually beginning to wonder if Drummond slept with Franks wife.

  • Nov 25, 20126:32 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    Pistons are the only team that would think about bringing defensive big man off the bench, as though he was a James Harden. It hurts the team, put Maxiell on the bench. Start Drummond

  • Nov 25, 20126:56 pm
    by Jodi Jezz

    Reply

    Whats going on with Stuckey??. Why is he playing so bad this season?..

    • Nov 26, 20127:23 am
      by Derek

      Reply

      Stuckey’s play (if you can call it that) seems to resemble someone who has given up.  He looks he’s just going through the motions.  I thought dude was ready to take the next step to being a better player, but it looks like that step is in the direction of a different franchise.

      I am beyond disappointed.  We are in his sixth year and he still can’t figure out how to be productive. 

    • Nov 26, 201210:15 am
      by Tyrone

      Reply

      Great question Jodi.  Im not sure if he is injured or like Derek says just going through the motions.  I hope that he has not given up and given in but his play so far is terrible.   

  • Nov 25, 20126:58 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    “Not bad or anything, but why is a so-so-at-best 33-year-old on an expiring contract playing so much for a rebuilding team?

    had to laugh!
    were you talking about this year or last year?
    or wilkins or maggette?
    or ben wallace perhaps?
    what were any of those guys doing, logging regular rotation minutes for a supposedly rebuilding team?
     

  • Nov 25, 20127:03 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    btw, get ready to see a potentially great rookie tomorrow.  
    damien lilliard is the real deal.
    he is what brandon knight is supposed to be: an athletic, smart combo guard with a good outside shot who just needs a bit of experience and coaching before he becomes a bona fide nba point guard.
    funny, no one brags about lilliard’s GPA in high school but this guy runs circles around knight as far as BB IQ is concerned.
    and another lesson regarding lilliard is how portland obtained the draft pick to acquire him.
    textbook trade – involving gerald wallace – and one that joe dumars would do well to try to emulate with a several of the guys – maggette, tay, maxiell – on his roster. 
    not that i am expecting it… 

    • Nov 25, 20127:17 pm
      by FUCK FRANK'S PROCESS

      Reply

      I think the same thing man.. portland traded a washed up gerald wallace and got the 6th pick, boston traded the 5th pick for ray allen, lots of trades like that.
      We need to find a team that wants to dispose a bad contract that could be a lottery team and is willing to give away that pick. My first options are GSW with Jefferson and Biedrens. Also the Wiz with Okafor. Bobcats and tyrus thomas. We need to take a rental player in order to try to get two lottery picks this year. We cant keep going year by year adding one lottery pick and still consider ourselves a rebuilding team. Joe D now has the flexibility to make moves that he was not able to make prior to ownership changes. This is his time to clean up this pile of shit.
      Only players worthwhile to keep our Knight, Monroe, Drummond. Everyone else can be part of a trade or used to add salary to a big trade.

    • Nov 25, 20128:23 pm
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      Knight is not be used correctly, the guy has been a scoring play maker his whole career even at Kentucky but last year they made him a spot up shooter and now they want him to be a pure PG…. Knight has to have the freedom to get off at least 17 shots up without getting funny looks

    • Nov 25, 201210:08 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      It’d be great is Joe could swing such a trade, but that is setting your sights a bit high. New Jersey didn’t give up their pick for Gerald Wallace because he was an expiring contract. They did it because he was an excellent player, way better than Tay, Max, or Maggette (although he hasn’t looked so hot this season).

      And even given that Wallace was such a desirable player, the only reason the deal was struck was because the Nets were desperate to do something to appease D-Will. And they were nearly universally mocked for doing it.

      In summary, there is no way Dumars could turn any of those three guys (or all of them) into a lottery pick. But if he can get picks for them at all (even second rounders) without taking back too much in crappy deals, he’d better jump on those opportunities. 

    • Nov 25, 201210:12 pm
      by Vic

      Reply

      Damian lillard was also a 4 year player. Yes Lillard has a more mature game, but give Knight wont always be this bad. He’s already starting to rebalance his game and score more.

    • Nov 26, 20127:27 am
      by Derek

      Reply

      Damian Lilliard is an impressive prospect.  Dude is very close to being a finished product in his rookie season.  He knows when to score, when to distribute, and how to control the game.  These nuances are lost on BK7 right now, but I think he’ll get it eventually.

      I look forward to seeing how BK7 matches up against Lilliard.  I’d like to think that game winner against Toronto changes things for the better for BK7.  We will see if that is the case.

  • Nov 25, 20127:16 pm
    by Mel

    Reply

    Don’t even compare Woodsen to Frank, Woodsen played the game so he’s head and shoulders better than Frank. Frank is a video nerd who was given an opportunity and is running straight to the bank with it. Woodsen can relate to his players a gets them to respond when he wants them to. Even in Atlanta with Josh Smith, when he needed to put him in check he got results even if josh may have not liked it. Why ? Because he’s played the game, and players and coaches that’s played the game can speak the same language.  Frank is a good talker and knows some x’s and o’s but it’s like having a guy who watches some one play basketball but never played go out on the court and play point guard with NO experience.
     

    • Nov 25, 201210:12 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      You clearly way overvalue having played the game. You don’t have to be able to play in order to know the game. Don’t believe me? Look at Popovich, far and away the best coach in the league and arguably the best coach of all time (although I know most people would give that title to Jackson). 

  • Nov 25, 20127:20 pm
    by FUCK FRANK'S PROCESS

    Reply

    We need someone who can create a shot and bail us out when the offense stalls(every possession).
    To me, marcus thornton, marshon brooks are two guys in bad situations that could help us out a little bit. Thornton has shown to be really clutch at times and brooks looks like a complete player with a complete skill set.

    • Nov 25, 20127:32 pm
      by ryan

      Reply

      Marshon Brooks would be a very nice pick up for us. At this point I’ve got Monroe, Drummond, Knight, Singler and Jerebko on our keepers list and everyone else on the see what we can get list. I’d like to keep Prince as well but that shouldn’t be a worry since his contract is going to be very difficult to trade.
       

    • Nov 25, 201210:15 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      The Pistons need more top shelf talent, plain and simple. Once you have that, you tinker around the edges filling in holes. Filling holes now is useless because the core still needs work.

      Yeah, if you can get one of those guys for a bargain, go for it. But there are tons of teams who’d be happy to get them on a bargain. Pursuing them beyond that would be a waste of resources at the moment. 

  • Nov 25, 20127:37 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    it does not make me feel good that we are struggling….nor does it make me feel good that Frank is a horrible coach.

    But 
     

    • Nov 25, 20127:41 pm
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      Drummond is a impact player, if not more than a Shot-blocker and rebounder….that what the starting line up is missing.

      it makes no sense trying to save drummond or hide him in the 2nd unit.

      it makes no sense not finding minutes for the future of this team…that includes English, Middleton and even Slava…

       

  • Nov 25, 20127:45 pm
    by FUCK FRANK'S PROCESS

    Reply

    We need to get a combination of Poythress, Goodwin or Muhammed in this coming draft. We need to pick up a second lottery pick. All 3 options would be great for us.
    Stuckey simply does not look like the same player he was for 6 years. He can’t even get to the rack clean like he used to. To me jerebko has sort of maxed out.. hes not improved and is simply an energy guy. I personally think austin daye does deserve more chance than hes got.. his shot looks better than last year. English deserves stuckeys minutes cuz he can at least spread the floor and stuckey is not contributing in any way right now. middleton to me has a nice smooth game and hasnt got any chance. I like his shooting and has good size to set screens and get boards. Not that slow for his size.
    Frank has shown all year that he is a fucking idiot but like we’ve been told we must stay true to FRANK’S PROCESS.

    • Nov 25, 20127:52 pm
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      Im not in love with any of those draft pick but they would be a welcome addition to this team.

      Drummond in his first 7 minutes had 5rebs 1stl 1blk ….. Maxiell in 24 minutes had 4rebs 1blks 0stls.. 

      Drummond finished with 11rebs and 3 blks…in 19mins 

    • Nov 25, 201210:33 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      And how do you propose getting a second lottery pick? Presumably not by trading Monroe or Drummond (the only two guys on the roster with that much value).

      So then by moving expiring deals or Tayshaun Prince? The only way that happens is by taking on a terrible contract with it (like the opposite of the BG trade except it would probably take a worse contract to get as good a pick as given up–because Dumars sucks at his job).

      And there aren’t that many terrible contracts in the league. Joe Johnson is overpaid but they want him in Brooklyn so they aren’t going to give away assets to move him. And Rashard Lewis and Gilbert Arenas are finally off their teams’ books. And several teams still have amnesties.

      So that leaves basically Stoudemire and Biedrins. New York won’t have a lottery pick. Golden State wouldn’t give up their first rounder without lottery protection just to get out of one year of Biedrins. So we’ll say that the only way to get a lottery pick out of them is to give them some more assets. To get out from under the burden of Stoudemire in exchange for Prince and Max (with Daye thrown in to make salaries work), we’ll say New York is willing to give up their first rounder and Shumpert. So those get passed on to Golden State along with Maggette for Biedrins. It’s possible that that would be enough to get their pick with just a top 3 or top 5 protection.

      So unless you can think of some other scenario, that is pretty much the only way I can see Detroit getting a second lottery pick. Then you just have to ask yourself whether having Stoudemire and Biedrins on the books is worth one pick from the late lottery.

  • Nov 25, 20127:47 pm
    by Lake Side Live

    Reply

    Till the trade deadline they should play as much charlie v as possible to see if we can unload him.  If he duplicates these kind of performances regardless if it’s in garbarge time, it might be enough extra incentive for a team looking for an expiring contract.

    I’ve assumed this thought process is what has accounted for maxiell and bynum minutes.  

    • Nov 25, 201210:35 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      CV is not an expiring contract. And only Detroit can amnesty him. So, regardless of performance, Charlie has less negative value to the Pistons than to any other team in the league. If you are trying to ratchet up someone’s trade value, choose any other player on the team. Charlie is the only one for whom it makes zero sense.

      • Nov 26, 201212:18 am
        by Lake Side Live

        Reply

        His contract expires in 2013-2014, so it is expiring some team could pick him for next season and then have salary cap space like we did with maggette in the meantime if he’s playing well in the same minutes he played for milwaukee it makes for more incentive for that year he plays.

        • Nov 26, 201210:23 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          “Expiring contract” means a deal in its last year. So right now, the only contracts that are expiring contracts are those that expire in the summer of 2013. Period. That is what that term means.

          Yeah, technically, CV’s contract will expire and it is drawing ever closer to that date in the same sense that you and I are dying right now. But by that rationale, every contract is an expiring contract. No, the term has a specific use and CV does not fit the bill. Also, the contract does not expire in 2013-2014. It is in its last year in 2013-2014. It expires in the summer of 2014.

          And yeah, if Charlie could play like that every night, he could generate some small amount of value. But he won’t. If he could shoot efficiently every night, Piston fans wouldn’t be so eagerly awaiting the day he is off the team. So again, give those minutes to absolutely anyone else. CV should be amnestied this summer.

          • Nov 26, 20125:33 pm
            by Lake Side Live

            Look man it’s a factor that writers from the detroit news (vincent goodwill) brought up when talking about how much money the pistons will have this summer, teams do take one year contracts we took maggette’s.

            With maxiell leaving like it or not you may need a body to guard against injury and gores may want to just eat 8.6 million dollars.  

            Theses are just opinions and notice i’m not being a d%ck when i’m giving them.  

  • Nov 25, 20127:53 pm
    by gmehl

    Reply

    The only reason Drummond isn’t playing 20-25 minutes a game could be put down to ‘Reverse tanking’. Joe will tell you that they had to bring on Drummond slowly and then come the all-star break when our record is so bad that a top 3 pick is almost certain they will insert Drummond into the starting lineup and we will probably go 20-6 the rest of the season. Seriously though i have no idea why the kid hasn’t been given more minutes. I was fine with him coming off the bench but only under the pretense that he would play 20-25 minutes a game but this is getting beyond a joke. Someone needs to tell Joe that our 1st rounder will not be going to the Bobcats next season and that he needs to try and trade Maxiell for another late 1st rounder. As soon as a contender loses a starting or a rotation big to a season ending injury he needs to strike and trade Maxi for that late 1st rounder. Is Max worth a late 1st rounder?? Probably not but teams panic and its not like Max will break the bank and he is an expiring. Drummond can then start and Kratskov can back him up. Monroe would then slide over to PF and Jerebko can back him up.

  • Nov 25, 20127:54 pm
    by Kobina

    Reply

    Every one of you needs to shut up and see the bigger picture.  The Pistons have been lucky to get 3 players that are better than their draft positions in the last years, 4 if you count Jerebko.  They are good players, Monroe is projecting to be great but we need a legitimate superstar to be the next OKC and there just so happens to be one coming up in this years draft.  

    Yeah losing sucks but what would a wins to a team that is nowhere contending do for us anyway?  Even our much coveted capspace wouldn’t do anything for us at this point in the rebuild.  However, Imagine a lineup of:
    Brandon Knight, Shabazz Muhammad, Cap Space Player, Greg Monroe and Andre Drummond.  Now you can talk about contending.  This year is not a deep draft so another 7,8,9 pick will not bear the same fruit for us.  I don’t like watching it (and I do watch every game) but I will endure a 3-79 season if it lands us Muhhammad or McAdoo.

    Yeah, I know it is too early to talking draft but what else do we have to be playing for this season, anyway? 

    • Nov 25, 20129:47 pm
      by Vic

      Reply

      Yeah I agree, this is just a reverse tank job to keep our draft pick high.

      But Frank seems to be really clueless. Or he’s a very good actor Doing a great job tanking

    • Nov 25, 201210:39 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Who are the three? Monroe, Drummond, Singler?

      I hope you aren’t talking about Knight because he has a long way to go in order to show that he is worth more than his draft position. All he’s done so far is to get lots of minutes and put up halfway decent numbers by being on the floor and handling the ball so much. He hasn’t actually played particularly well except for a random game here or there. He could still wind up being a steal, but he has thus far looked way behind several guys taken after him like Faried and Walker.

      • Nov 26, 20128:19 am
        by EMBRACE THE PROCESS

        Reply

        “He could still wind up being a steal, but he has thus far looked way behind several guys taken after him like Faried and Walker.”

        1. They are not LOOK FAR WAY BEHIND… Faried to Knight is not a fair comparison, so lets skip that. Knight vs Walker … walker 18ppg 6ast 4rebs 2.3 stls…. compared to Knights 11.7ppg 6.1asy 3.4 and .4 stls ….. Go behind those numbers walkers plays 7-8 MORE minutes than Knight (almost a quater of basketball more) ….Knight only attempts 9-10 shots pergame…Walkers leads his team with 16 shot attempts pergame…. although Knight and Walker both shoot poorly at 41%…Walker is currently 20% 3 point shooter…Knight is currenly a 42% 3 point shooter…. 

        Steals, Ast , turnovers, Rebs…

        Im more going to take anything away from Kemba defensively he has great hands, and he is better playing the passing lanes than knight and he’s allowed to take more risk than knight… but it doesnt make him a better defensive player… Jason
        Williams aka White Chocolate also use to rack up a ton of steals but I wouldnt call him a good defender….

        Ast/rebs… Knight averages 6 ast / 3.4rebs vs Walker 6 ast/4rebs …but like I stated earlier Walkers 7-8 more minutes…

        Now kemba takes care of the ball better than Knight, but maybe that has something to do with one coach allowing one of his best players to play to his strenghts vs another coach trying to make a player something he is not ….

        Either way put Knight with the Bobcats, I believe his scoring, ast, rebs, stls all would go up… put Walker on the Pistons in this current system …Walker would struggle greatly…and his numbers would be worse that Knights

        • Nov 26, 20128:33 am
          by EMBRACE THE PROCESS

          Reply

          “the most minutes Knight have played this year was 36… Walker has 6 games where he played 40 or more minutes….”


          Its little things that influence a winning a culture

        • Nov 26, 201210:33 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Hey, where was this rationale when people (I don’t know if you were one of them) were claiming Knight was one of the best rookies last year? Knight may not be getting as many minutes as Walker this season, but he has received a lot more minutes than almost any other rookie/sophomore playing at his level over this season and the last.

          And let’s look at the two PGs’ per 36 numbers

          Knight: 13/4/7 with half a steal and 4 TOs on 41-42-69 splits
          Walker: 17/4/6 with two steals and 2 TOs on 41-21-84 splits

          Yeah, Knight has a skill (3 point shooting) that Walker lacks. But Walker still is playing much better. He would just be doing that much better still if he stopped chucking from long range. Furthermore, Walker is one of the two best players on a team with a winning record. Knight is one of the best three to five players on a team that has a better record than only one other team in the league.

          • Nov 26, 20121:54 pm
            by frankie d

            i think knight will be ok. 
            i think he will mature into a good/very good/borderline all-star caliber player.
            i just don’t think he will ever be as good a “point guard” as a guy like damien lilliard.
            i think walker fits into that same category.
            why?
            their mental approach to the game.
            people always rave about what a supposedly smart guy knight is, but this fan has yet to see evidence of that on the BB court.  often it looks like knight has checked his brain on the sideline, when he plays.
            when a player has that high BB IQ, it is apparent almost immediately.  especially with guards who have the ball in their hands.  a good coach can definitely help – as happened when chauncey spent a couple years with larry brown – but even in those situations, a coach is typically just smoothing off the rough edges, finishing a product that is ready to shine.
            i just don’t see that with knight.  what i see with knight is rodney stuckey with a 3 point shot.  jason terry, basically.  a bigger, slightly slower, less quick tony parker.  a nice player, but not a guy who is going to lead a team to a title as a starting PG.
            lilliard, on the other hand, has immediately shown that he knows how to play the PG spot and that he has a feel, an understanding of how to play the position that the great PGs have.   
            i’ve seen most of the blazers games this year and he is amazing to watch.  you forget that he is a rookie, as he runs his team like a 10 year vet.  
            he’ll spend 3 quarters just watching, probing, taking a few shots while setting up other guys and, then, if and when he thinks he needs to, he’ll start looking for his offense.  like it is the most natural thing in the world for him.  he’s made some late game decisions and moves that only grizzled vets make.
            yea, lilliard spent more time in school and that has to help, but i just think that a huge part of the difference is simply the mental approach, his BB IQ, something that isn’t going to really improve with time.  either you have it or you don’t.
            imho, it is clear that lilliard has that PG mentality, while the jury is out on whether knight ever will get it. 

          • Nov 26, 20124:51 pm
            by tarsier

            I don’t actually believe Walker will have a better career than Knight, although it’s possible. But I definitely believe he is ahead of Knight right now, as could reasonably be expected. He spent more years in school and looked less raw as a college player. In fact, I was surprised that he didn’t look far ahead of Knight last year.

  • Nov 25, 20128:01 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    i said it from the start…and Patrick at the time disagreed with me….

    if the starting line up was…

    Drummond
    Monroe
    Singler
    English
    Knight

    with the following players coming off the bench

    Middleton
    Slava
    Stuckey
    Jonas
    Maxiell
    Prince  

    you could sell to the fans patience, we are a young team and we are rebuilding….

    But when you start and play VETS who would be come off the bench for most teams in the NBA major minutes…its boring and disheartening… especially when you still are not winning

    it makes you think your young talent isnt all that talented, and theres no reason to be excited about your future

    • Nov 25, 20128:49 pm
      by FUCK FRANK'S PROCESS

      Reply

      I want Mcadoo, Poythress, goodwin and muhummed. I think we should trade with orlando. take harrington and turkoglu off their cap and take their 1st round pick this year and send off maggette and maxiell to give them what they want some cap relief

      • Nov 25, 201210:42 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        Why would Orlando do that? Why would they really want cap relief? They have just started over with the rebuilding process. After a couple drafts, they might want cap space to go after FAs. But who is going to go to the wasteland that is their roster right now?

        And even if they were willing to trade a pick to get those guys off the books, you better believe there is no way in hell they would give up their own unprotected first rounder (this isn’t NBA 2K). They would instead part with One of the non-lottery picks they got in the Howard trade. 

    • Nov 26, 201212:04 am
      by Joe Dumars

      Reply

      You forgot to name to Maggette.

      So how is Dumars suppose explain to Gores his $30 million or so bench? Nothing like that is happening unless theres some trades. Thats a good way to piss off half the locker room.

  • Nov 25, 20128:06 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    overall Pistons media have been way to easy on franks and dumars

  • Nov 25, 20128:26 pm
    by Travis

    Reply

    It seems to me that Maxiell came off the bench for Ben Walllace – Wallace was a rebounding machine and was a liability at the free throw line – and there isn’t much of a difference between Wallace and Drummond.

    • Nov 25, 201210:43 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Wallace was old. Drummond isn’t. And the Pistons seem to have one of the crappiest GM/head coach combos in the league.

  • Nov 25, 20128:49 pm
    by Mone

    Reply

    I can’t believe we took Frank over Lambeer..

  • Nov 25, 20128:51 pm
    by Delray313

    Reply

    Some of you folks know nothing about bball this was a good game far as the flow when we needed a shot a guy like Cv can make it some of you act like Cv cant play he is not good on defense but singler got his ass handed to him by jr smith and novak so what is the difference between Cv and singler.  singler is and will not be larry legend but he is a decent backup i dont see game changer starter unless we have to allstars to help him on defense. Cv at least can mix it up inside and outside and he hasnt even played and still dropped 17 listen cant nobody check Cv in the nba i have been watching him for years. Frank is just getting out coached these days Drummond and Monroe might as well start playing more because its going to boil down to that anyway in the near future. What hell is wrong with stuckey i think he did not want to play this game.

    • Nov 25, 20129:17 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      Seriously when we amnesty CV next season can you please go with him. CV is the poster child for inconsistency in the NBA.
       
      Answer this question for me…what is the difference between Joe signing CV to $37.7mil contract over 5 years and CV going into a bank and stealing $37.7 mil?? Answer: absolutely nothing because both were hold ups. CV has certainly not lived up to his end of the contract. Hey CV might be a nice guy but being nice doesn’t change that he has been a shit basketball player for Detroit. I am starting to think that Joe should of traded CV instead of Ben Gordon because at least we would of still had some outside shooting which we are lacking atm. I am sure they tried but there was obviously no takers.

    • Nov 26, 20127:40 am
      by EMBRACE THE PROCESS

      Reply

      “singler got his ass handed to him by jr smith and novak so what is the difference between Cv and singler. ”

      1. I’ve seen JR Smith light up some of the better defenders in the league…so you point is what? and Novak is a 3 point bomber, and open looks are gonna happen when you play a switching and trapping defense against a team where 3-4 players in the starting line-up has the go ahead to shoot the 3 ball

      “singler is and will not be larry legend but he is a decent backup i dont see game changer starter unless we have to allstars to help him on defense.”

      2. Why does he have to be Larry Bird? He is more smaller verison of Danilo Gallinari. The Defensive help should be Drummond and Slava

      • Nov 26, 201211:47 am
        by Jodi Jezz

        Reply

        Singler is a bum and shouldn’t be in the starting line-up period…

    • Nov 26, 20123:24 pm
      by Tyrone

      Reply

      I agree w/Delray313 comment. 

      Singler is a fundamentally sound player, JR Smith was able to expose Singlers lack of foot speed.  I would also note that CV is not a solid defender, but he did benefit from having Drummond on the floor with him.  CV made good rotations and closing off the lane this game.

  • Nov 25, 20129:13 pm
    by FIREFRANKB4ITSLATE

    Reply

    Frank should sit watching the game from TV. Maybe he doesnt see what all of us saw. He was too close to the game. I know its absurd. How can a man be that ignorant? Also, Joe D’s name is on the line here. Gores gonna make his move. We must keep sending those love letter to Drummond and Hate mail to Frank to Gores. 

  • Nov 25, 20129:26 pm
    by CVreplacingJJWhaaat?

    Reply

    JJ’s been off lately. He’s in the doghouse of Frank now. Frank is the one who put stuck in the second team. JJ and stuck is not a good fit. Its on Frank to figure out what to do. Not bringing the no D CV. Thats the easy solution Frank. You said you got problem with Detroit D, u think CV gonna help u with that? huh? Freakin Frank. Where is Drummond, Monroe and Knights minutes???

    • Nov 25, 20129:50 pm
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      JONAS wants to play Small Foward and he has been saying it for the last 2 years…. he lost weight and got tone this summer to play SF…but then was never given a fair chance to win the position over prince…. it doesnt make since for a franchise in rebuilding mode to hold on to aging vets like we do…

  • Nov 25, 20129:44 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    IF SOMEONE STARTS A FIRE FRANK BILLBOARD IN DETROIT I PROMISE I’LL CONTRIBUTE MONEY…

    SLOGANS LIKE

    “FRANKLY FRANK SUCKS”

    “BEANS AND NO FRANK”

    OR MY PERSONAL FAVORITE

    “WE HATE FRANK” 

  • Nov 25, 20129:45 pm
    by Pimp Zombie

    Reply

    Pertaining to Coach Frank refusing to go young w/Drummond and English, its like my Ma used to say….”A hard head makes a soft ass.”

    If ur gonna lose, lose YOUNG.

    • Nov 25, 201210:42 pm
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      in the first 5 games English was shooting 6-12 for 3′s, he brought hustle and defensive energy ….everything you want from a player off the bench…but then you take away all his minutes when a 33 years old Corey Maggette gets back…

      Maggetts will not be a Pistons next year or even after February its makes no sense  

  • Nov 25, 20129:53 pm
    by Vic

    Reply

    The good side is hopefully we can get Shabazz Muhammad, get rid of all the unproductive players, and Frank won’t be able to mess things up next year. Okc is an all talent team, Scotty Brooks can’t make good decisions either, but they’re still winning.

    To make that final step and eventually win it all we’ll have to go with Bill Laimbeer though. 

    • Nov 25, 201210:00 pm
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      we wont get Shabazz its false hopes….

      because at some point in the last 15 games of the season…when all of the other teams are throw games, we will decide to play winning basketball and end up with the 10 pick in the draft 

      • Nov 26, 201210:06 am
        by sebastian

        Reply

        Fellas, Shabazz Muhammad is not the pick that I recommend the Piston make. Have any of you seen this guy? He plays like Jack “Goose” Givens. Which was find for Givens, during the ’77-’78 NCAA College Basketball season, but will not work in today’s NBA.
        Do not draft Muhammad, please!

    • Nov 25, 201210:51 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Or if Detroit does somehow manage to draft Shabazz, he’ll play 10 mpg as the 4th player off the bench.

      • Nov 26, 20128:25 am
        by vic

        Reply

        Not if Frank is gone! Hopefully that could happen too.

  • Nov 25, 201210:04 pm
    by FRANKly I DONT UNDERSTAND

    Reply

    I just want to say that Jerbko saddens me a guy that had so much potental his rookie year is falling back this is the example of why players need to be traded before the value is ran out. You have to trade Jonas before his value in the NBA is no more. These guys are dead a SG they need to pick up a nice old scoring vet maybe like a Gilbert Arenas for at least a one year deal or just trade for a guy thats on a team thats ready to go!

    • Nov 25, 201210:30 pm
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      Jonas is a SF…. and he did not get a chance to win the SF spot…even thought he has out played Prince in the last 2 years….Jonas is frustrated by the coaching and management 

      • Nov 25, 201211:40 pm
        by RationalSportsFan

        Reply

        This.
        Why is Frank using JJ almsot exclusively at PF, when he can defend no one there?
        JJ is an energy stretch SF off the bench who can hit a few 3′s. I wish Frank would use him like that.

        • Nov 26, 201212:57 am
          by FRANKly I DONT UNDERSTAND

          Reply

          Yeah he’s gonna have to use him in another way

          • Nov 26, 201210:17 am
            by EMBRACE THE PROCESS

            JJ points/rebs per minute is greater than Prince… his energy and effort is greater than Prince….

            Put Prince stays in the starting line up because he suppose to be a leader, but I guarantee Prince is the worst personality in the locker room, he was forced into a leadership role only because all of the other vets were traded or left the team…

            we could be so fun, and entertaining to watch with to simple line up adjustments…

          • Nov 26, 201210:25 am
            by Patrick Hayes

            I would love to see more of Jerebko (and all the young players in general) and less of Prince, but the fact is, Prince is out-producing Jerebko this season. Jerebko is shooting the ball terribly. Hard to make a case for him to play over Prince when the fact is Prince is just playing better. I don’t blame Frank for that one, either. Any coach would play Prince over Jerebko. It’s Dumars’ fault. If he’d trade Prince and take the decision out of Frank’s hand, he’s be forced to play their younger wing prospects.

  • Nov 25, 201210:07 pm
    by Vic

    Reply

    Another good thing: knight is starting to look like himself again, realizing it’s ok to score, which is the least you can do if your going to turn the ball over and not stop the other point guard.
    I don’t think he’ll ever be a top 10 pg, but he’ll make top 15 eventually as he gets older and finds his balance in playing style. 

    • Nov 25, 201210:21 pm
      by I HATE FRANK

      Reply

      Knight is a scoring play maker…. period…. he is like Tony Parker…. it took Parker like 10 years to average over 7 ast 

  • Nov 25, 201210:25 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    Brian Hill or Dee Brown could not do any worse….

  • Nov 25, 201210:28 pm
    by I HATE FRANK

    Reply

    nothing I have seen this season can be justified.
     

  • Nov 25, 201211:57 pm
    by domnick

    Reply

    i think next season.. there’s a chance that we can hire JVG to become our new headcoach..

    then get Patrick Ewing as assistant — (Teach monroe and drummond some post moves)..

    maybe retain brian hill or whoever else there..

    but i think JVG is a better coach… defensive-wise… but offense its like frank…

    another thing we need to do is.. get a STAR PLAYER with leadership skills.. it is really apparent that we don’t have enough leadership on this team.. i don’t see our guys taking charge and being more vocal plus experienced.. Tayshaun is being viewed as our leader but he’s no star.. plus he’s not carrying this team anymore..

    i have great hopes for this team.. this season we may not be ready.. but management needs to act first… and the direction will be dictated by those above guys! Joe D… should be more active on this.. if he has seen enough then he needs to act! don’t just watch and do nothing!

  • Nov 26, 201212:12 am
    by Mel

    Reply

    Nate McMillan is a good all around coach and he’s not afraid to crack down on guys when their B-s-ing. Plus he’s played the game, players respect and listen to those coaches. I’d rather us having a players coach instead of a coach that will eventually loose the respect of their players.

  • Nov 26, 20123:06 am
    by Mel

    Reply

    McMillan’s coaching career

    Nate McMillan coached the Sonics for five seasons. He also played here from 1986 to 1998, averaging 5.9 points per game.

    Team
    Year
    W-L
    Division finish

    Sonics
    2000-01
    38-29
    Fifth

    Sonics
    2001-02
    45-37
    Fourth

    Sonics
    2002-03
    40-42
    Fifth

    Sonics
    2003-04
    37-45
    Fifth

    Sonics
    2004-05
    52-30
    First

    Portland
    2005-06
    21-61
    Fifth

    Portland
    2006-07
    32-50
    Third

    Portland
    2007-08
    41-41
    Third

    Portland
    2008-09
    54-28
    First

    Portland
    2009-10
    50-32
    Third

    Portland
    2010-11
    48-34
    Third

    Portland
    2011-12
    20-23
    Fired midseason

    Career
     
    478-452

  • Nov 26, 20128:19 am
    by Zekekhaseli

    Reply

    “I thought Charlie did well but we got drilled by 20,” he said. “In terms of judging his performance, he made shots and did some good things. It’s not a question of whether Charlie’s a good player. He is a good player. You can only play so many guys.”

  • Nov 26, 20128:21 am
    by Zekekhaseli

    Reply

    Liar liar ur pants on fire. Hey Frank. Do you really think Charlie V is a good player?

  • Nov 26, 20128:28 am
    by Zekekhaseli

    Reply

    I vote for Nate number # sonics

    • Nov 26, 20128:29 am
      by Zekekhaseli

      Reply

      Typo #10 sonics captain

  • Nov 26, 201211:10 am
    by vic

    Reply

    this team already has a lot of talent it just needs a coach to play the right players, and it needs to move on from Max, CV, Bynum… and less likely Prince.

    That will make room for Drummond, English. Then all they need is a backup PF and PASS FIRST DEFENSIVE pg.

    Right now I like Michael Carter Williams, he currently leads all pgs in the nation in Assists and Steals and Blocks. He’s not shooting the 3 well, but that’ll come around. Marcus Smart and Nate Wolters are good options too.

    As far as PFs, they could get Vernon Macklin back and that would be sufficient. 

    If they keep tanking they could end up with one of the big name PF/Cs Zeller, Tony Mitchell, Poythress.  I like Shabazz too, but I’d take a PF over him.

  • Nov 26, 20123:32 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    love nate as a coach.
    i’ve lived in seattle and portland when he was coaching both teams and i’ve seen most of the games he’s coached both in seattle and portland.
    excellent coach, but he is not a coach for a rebuilding team.
    he is as bad, or worse, than frank as far as playing young players.  in fact, it is the reason he was fired. he simply refused to play younger players and also kept batum on a roller coaster with minutes and his role.  
    nate just likes the old guys and if you are not a brandon roy or aldridge, he’s probably going to play the vet over any young player.  
    now, if detroit hires an interim coach for a couple of years, ends up with a fairly young, veteran team as a result of that transition coach, i’d definitely look to nate to get and keep that team at a level where it could contend for a title.
    but nate as the coach of a young, rebuilding team.
    no…no…no! 

  • Nov 26, 20124:41 pm
    by sebastian

    Reply

    After, OUR Pistons loose to Portland, tonight, Phoenix on Wednesday, Memphis on Friday, and Dallas on Saturday, L. Frank should be promptly fired and the next Head Coach hire should be Isiah Thomas.
    Zeke would be the best man to coach this ragged group. He would be a great teacher of the nuances of the PG position to B. Knight.
    Additionally, Joe should orchestrate the following trade:
    Move Maxey, Maggette, and Singler to the Hawks for Josh Smith and Anthony Morrow. Also, move Tay to Portland for a future 1st round pick, heck it can be a pick from 2020.
    These trades work financially for all parties:
    The Hawks get three players, two that will come off of their books @ $15 million and Danny Ferry gets a Dukie (Singler) that he can add to their roster at a minimal figure of $1 million for the remainder of this season and each of the next two seasons.
    The Pistons get a “real” SF that is not afraid of Melo, LeBron, Kevin Durant, or Rudy Gay. Also, WE get a shooter with a sweet jumper, Anthony Morrow.
    Moving Tay to Portland will return a future first round pick and provide the Blazers with a veteran player, who can help with their putrid bench production.
     

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