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Andre Drummond dominates, so much so that everyone forgets the Pistons are 0-6

Detroit Pistons 94 FinalRecap | Box Score 105 Oklahoma City Thunder
Jason Maxiell, PF 20 MIN | 0-3 FG | 1-2 FT | 6 REB | 0 AST | 1 PTS | -4Maxiell was awful. But it was his awfulness that led to Andre Drummond finally getting time on the court with Greg Monroe. If Maxiell was solid or even average in this game, that probably wouldn’t have happened.
Tayshaun Prince, SF 36 MIN | 6-16 FG | 2-2 FT | 6 REB | 3 AST | 16 PTS | -2Prince couldn’t do much defensively with Kevin Durant, but who can? His offense was solid, he helped on the glass and he made half of his 3-pointers.
Greg Monroe, C 35 MIN | 6-15 FG | 2-4 FT | 10 REB | 6 AST | 14 PTS | -9Monroe struggled shooting the ball and with turnovers, but he was as active defensively as I’ve seen him … well … maybe ever. He played physical, he blocked shots and he was sneaking up on another triple double had a couple of teammates knocked down open shots that he set up.
Brandon Knight, PG 36 MIN | 4-10 FG | 2-2 FT | 6 REB | 6 AST | 11 PTS | +1Knight was OK offensively, helped on the glass and was part of a solid defensive effort on Russell Westbrook, limiting him to 3-for-10 shooting.
Rodney Stuckey, PG 36 MIN | 5-14 FG | 3-3 FT | 2 REB | 6 AST | 15 PTS | -1Stuckey chipped in on Westbrook too, but he continues to struggle shooting the ball.
Jonas Jerebko, PF 20 MIN | 1-4 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 2 AST | 2 PTS | -9Jerebko didn’t do much in this game, other than the three steals, but it’s understandable considering the beating he took in Sacramento.
Kyle Singler, SF 15 MIN | 3-5 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 7 PTS | -13Singler was pesky and chipped in once again, as he’s done every game this season.
Andre Drummond, C 21 MIN | 8-10 FG | 6-9 FT | 8 REB | 0 AST | 22 PTS | 0I wish I could give more plusses here. This morning, Lawrence Frank basically said that he wanted Drummond to prove that he was worthy of more minutes. Drummond, quite simply, left absolutely no doubts tonight. I can’t wait to see how he follows up tomorrow.
Will Bynum, PG 12 MIN | 3-8 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 0 AST | 6 PTS | -12Bynum didn’t shoot particularly well, and although he was pesky on defense with two steals, he had a couple of costly turnovers when the Pistons were still in it and Knight was resting in the fourth.
Kim English, SG 9 MIN | 0-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 1 AST | 0 PTS | -6English didn’t play a lot, and on one of Bynum’s turnovers, he didn’t step into a pass he could’ve came up with aggressively enough, which contributed to a Kevin Martin steal.

Andre Drummond left no doubts

Lawrence Frank is an intelligent person and he knows the game. I’m sure his reasons for waiting to play Drummond and Monroe in the same lineup were reasonable, even if he’s not disclosing the specifics of why to the media. Frank doesn’t strike me as a dumb or illogical person. This morning, in a story by Vince Ellis of the Detroit Free Press, Frank said:

“What you would like to do is be able to stretch out Andre’s minutes. You’d like to be able to play those two together and you’re just trying to read the performance of the game.”

Frank is becoming a master of saying nothing when it sounds like he’s answering a question. But reading between the lines, let me take a stab at a rough translation: “Benching a veteran player who is performing reasonably if underwhelmingly well and happens to be in a contract year is not the best way to endear yourself in the locker room. I need Andre Drummond to leave no doubts before I even consider a Drummond-Monroe frontcourt.”

Now, like I said, it’s just pure speculation on my part, but prior to this game, Maxiell has played OK. Drummond has had brilliant flashes and also been non-existent a time or two. To begin considering benching a serviceable veteran for a young player, that young player, particularly one as talented as Drummond, has to start doing things like Drummond did tonight.

It’s actually a common concept. I’m putting on my ‘former political science major’ nerd hat here, but this is one of my favorite Franklin Roosevelt stories:

After his election in 1932, FDR met with Sidney Hillman and other labor leaders, many of them active Socialists with whom he had worked over the past decade or more. Hillman and his allies arrived with plans they wanted the new President to implement. Roosevelt told them: “I agree with you, I want to do it, now make me do it.”

Obviously, that’s a way out there example, but the principle is the same. Frank likely wants to insert Drummond into a bigger role. But while fans can clamor for it because it’s exciting and not care even if Drummond isn’t ready for that big role, Frank has to worry about a hierarchy in the locker room and other issues that fans never have to think about. He needed Drummond to prove beyond a doubt that he’s their best option in the frontcourt next to Monroe. This was a major, gigantic step in Drummond cementing himself in a primary role on this team and, my hunch is, eventually the starting lineup.

The bench was out-played

The bench has been a bright spot, both for production and energy, all season. And although Drummond was obviously great amd Kyle Singler was solid the rest of the bench guys weren’t up to the task. Jonas Jerekbo, Will Bynum and Kim English didn’t shoot well, Bynum was sloppy with the ball and Jerebko — perhaps due to the lingering effects from that Kings game — wasn’t his usual energetic self. Oklahoma City, conversely, got scoring out of Kevin Martin (16 points) and Eric Maynor (13 points) and activity out of Nick Collison (three points, four rebounds and a steal). That unit also played good defense — Martin had three steals and Maynor and Collison each had one.

Monroe-Drummond is everything we are and everything we’re not

The comments here, on other sites and on Twitter obviously blew up when Drummond entered the game in the third quarter and Monroe didn’t leave. Then, when Monroe found Drummond around the basket with two quick assists, the potential of this duo was on display for everyone. Their skillsets perfectly complement each other offensively and defensively. Whatever hesitancies that existed — and like I said above, we don’t have all of the behind-the-scenes information, so we shouldn’t just assume there were no valid reasons for the team not doing this sooner — there is clearly nothing to have reservations about. During Monroe’s rookie season, we saw how he can enhance the skills of an offensively limited but athletic big man as he frequently found Chris Wilcox on cuts and dump-offs around the basket.

More importantly, if you haven’t noticed, the Pistons lost this game. And sure, it would be nice for this team to get a win, but no one is depressed tonight. No one is talking about another loss. No one is wondering if ownership is just going to get fed up and clean house. Playing Drummond in a prominent role, as long as he’s improving and working hard, even if he makes mistakes, gives everyone hope. If the team plays this hard every game, if they are developing their key young players, and they still lose? That’s perfectly fine for now. Every fan will understand that and accept it, even if everyone ultimately wants to root for a winning team. The issue with this team for three years now has been not only were they bad, they were bad and old. Now they have a chance to be bad and quite a bit younger, if they choose, and that is a far easier concept to root for.

Frank is making progress

No one has taken more of a beating (much of it deserved) in the comments this season than Lawrence Frank. He often seems inflexible, his rotation hasn’t made sense for a team building for the future and he hasn’t explained some of his more perplexing decisions, particularly his hesitancy to play Monroe and Drummond together, very well. But slowly (every slowly), he’s starting to get it. After the game on Fox Sports Detroit, he talked about Monroe as the focal point of the offense because of his passing, and Monroe’s performances (17 assists over his last two games) back up that Frank truly is trying to make that happen. The defense is still awful despite how much he’s preaching it, but the Pistons did have a pretty good gameplan against Westbrook tonight, Drummond’s presence clearly altered shots and bothered the Thunder and he was rewarded with more minutes because of it and Monroe, though he didn’t play great defensively, was physical and engaged, which is an improvement for him.

I remember two straight years of watching John Kuester fumble his way through postgame questions. That was always a good way to feel even more depressed about a depressing game. I don’t feel that way when Frank is interviewed. I’m still not convinced he’s the right coach for a young team, but I’m also not convinced he’s an in-over-his-head dolt like Kuester came across. The Pistons need time and talent to get better, and I hope tonight was a positive step in Frank understanding that playing Drummond a lot is the best team for the long-term prospects of this franchise.

50 Comments

  • Nov 9, 201210:54 pm
    by I LOVE U FRANK

    Reply

    when i was that A+ next to Jason name…i was ready to get banned from this place….but then i laugh and agreed!!!

    Drummond was awesome, he takes up space and moves well without the ball…it was another great team effort…but i feel like…if we can get the right rotation we wont have to keep trying to come back…

    I LOVE U FRANK FOR ATLEAST ONE GAME

    NOTE: TO DRUMMOND DUNK IT, AND MAKE THEM FEAR YOU 

  • Nov 9, 201210:54 pm
    by Shash

    Reply

    ahahahahaha CLEVER. I like how you gave Max an A+ for giving AD playing time(:

  • Nov 9, 201210:56 pm
    by I LOVE U FRANK

    Reply

    GREG is soon gonna be considered the best passing Big man in the league,,,i can see him averaging 5 ast this season or be never close

    • Nov 9, 201210:56 pm
      by I LOVE U FRANK

      Reply

      *very close

    • Nov 9, 201210:57 pm
      by Shash

      Reply

      5 ast per game for a PF/C is CRAZY good….personally, i’d be happy with 3-4 apg

  • Nov 9, 201211:03 pm
    by SizzleMyBaconPlz

    Reply

    haha that A+

  • Nov 9, 201211:04 pm
    by Mark

    Reply

    Monroe has 20-10-4 potential like Webber was doing in his prime

    Drummond is a beast. 

  • Nov 9, 201211:04 pm
    by Mel

    Reply

    The dunks will come for Drummond confidence and developing more strength will help that. He’s playing with grown men and he’s 19 yrs old. 
    But on the other end of the discussion I got this off ESPN:
    “ Coach Lawrence Frank said before the game that Detroit had been hesitant to use the two big men together because “you don’t take away one of your main cogs and put him in a position of weakness there” but that the Pistons would probably try out the lineup eventually.”
    IDIOT !!! 

  • Nov 9, 201211:06 pm
    by rick

    Reply

    I know you like Sngler but lets not get carried away. Dude was -13 and he gets a B where is the defensive effort at? Also Monroe played pretty shoddy defense and allowed Perkins to score from the top of the key with the shot clock winding down. So please explain to me how this man gets a passing grade when offense is only half the game. I am trying figure whther this a joke or not, can you please explain your rationale. Oh yeah I guess if you are getting 9 straight points scored(2nd qtr) on you by Kelvin Martin then you must be real pesky,lol.

    • Nov 9, 201211:11 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      This is a team full of bad defensive players. I grade mostly on effort as a result of that. It would be unfair for me to expect Rodney Stuckey to morph into Tony Allen or something. So yeah, Monroe sucked defensively, but he was competitive. He was physical, he blocked shots, etc.

       ”I am trying figure whther this a joke or not, can you please explain your rationale.”

      My rationale? I dunno … I’m assigning fake letter grades to dudes playing a basketball game. There’s not really a rationale here. If someone grabs my attention for doing a few things well, they’ll likely get a good grade. If they do something multiple things bad, they’ll likely get a bad grade. 

      • Nov 10, 201212:00 am
        by rick

        Reply

         All I wanted to know was if it was serious and had any merit. Obviously I did not get the joke. That’s why I said I was trying to understand the rationale of the grading scale. I saw the other day Charlie V had an F for playing 4.4 seconds and thought,wow. Then I said to myself I’d hate to have this guy grading my papers. That is all

  • Nov 9, 201211:10 pm
    by Mel

    Reply

    Also I would give English a C, because Bynum passing SUCKed this game. A couple of passes English had to run to them to keep from getting it stolen. I blame that on the passer. Singler is my new favorite, he brings something to every game.  

  • Nov 9, 201211:29 pm
    by Mel

    Reply

    One more thing , we won the rebound battle TOO !

  • Nov 9, 201211:30 pm
    by I LOVE U FRANK

    Reply

    Next step is Monroe, Drummond and Knight …. Getting real minutes together

  • Nov 10, 201212:02 am
    by Mike

    Reply

    Knight, Drummond, Singler shot 15 of 25 or 60%, Drummond alone shot 75% 6 of 8, all the rest 21 of 62 34%.

    Put Knight,  Drummond, Singler, Monroe and Stuckey (if the Stuck can find the broad side of a barn) for 35 minutes a game and you might have a playoff team.  It will take the rest of this season at least for Drummond, and the rest to get consistent.  Regardless, with that lineup, it could be entertaining at least this year.  

    Drummond will be good and I can’t wait til Sir Drummmm-ond starts fighting back, with the over the hill centers (Jermaine O’Neal and Kendrick Perkins etc.) that keep hitting him in the groin, and pushing him in the back to stop Andre from doing a FACIAL on them.  

  • Nov 10, 201212:30 am
    by MIKEYDE248

    Reply

    I guess now we know why it took Frank so long to put Drummond and Monroe together, they really stunk up the place.  Now all we have to do is see Drummond get some more minutes.  22 points in 21 minutes, not bad.

  • Nov 10, 20121:08 am
    by John V

    Reply

    I can’t wait for Coach Frank to reward Drummond with a whopping 25 minutes tomorrow while Stuckey and Prince get 35 while shooting 30%.

  • Nov 10, 20121:17 am
    by Domnick

    Reply

    enough for this game… lets win against Houston tomorrow! if monroe and drummond play together!

  • Nov 10, 20121:18 am
    by pete

    Reply

    Now all we need is for Dumars to trade for shooting guard who can actually shoot. Im not  Stuckey Hater but i just dont think he fits this team at all. Put somebody like Kevin Martin, Oj Mayo, Eric Gorden,JJ Redick even a Monta Ellis and watch how much better Knight , Monroe and Drummond look…

  • Nov 10, 20122:40 am
    by YesSir

    Reply

    Great game good sign thanx frank now your getting it. Drummond has not even reached half of what he can become. its trade time too much dead weight now stuckey must go tay must go and max and bynum must go. im tired of cv sitting on the bench he has a nice contract he should be working for some of that money i dont care if he cant play defense. i saw more balance when monroe and drummond played because monroe can pass really well. bynum is a bad decision maker turnover prone. singler can stretch the floor with drummond and monroe out there. stuckey whats wrong if he plays better we can actually win some games. very encouraged from what i saw tonite.

    • Nov 10, 20122:52 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      I would be fine with trading any of those. But none of them need to go. It all depends on the return. If you have to give up assets to get rid of them (even second rounders), it’s not worth it unless you have some reason to believe the Pistons can sign 2 big time FAs next summer.

      Max in particular. Because he is an expiring deal anyway, there is no reason to trade him unless you’re bringing something of value back. But I can think of no trade partners who have use for him and have a more worthless expiring deal to send back along with a young player or pick nor a team with a comparably sized, longer-term deal we’d want.

      Prince I’d be the most open to trading. I don’t think he’d fetch an asset but he could probably be swapped with a contender for an expiring contract straight up.

      Stuckey has been awful this season. And he doesn’t look to have great potential anymore. But I really Liked the chemistry I saw between him and Knight in the second half of last season. I would give him at least 20 games to get back on track before I started lookign to sever ties. 

      • Nov 10, 20123:25 am
        by frankie d

        Reply

        max has value.
        pistons’ fans might be surprised at how much value.
        in fact, broadcasters often refer to “jason maxiell-type” players when they describe a certain type of physical, energy player off the bench.  
        maxiell is well-regarded out here in the west, and if the pistons were willing, i have no doubt they could find a very willing trading partner, out of the western conference contenders. 

  • Nov 10, 20122:46 am
    by ryan

    Reply

    The positive:
    -This game was fun to watch which is a nice change.
    -Greg Monroe game up big again and gave a solid effort on defense.
    -Andre Drummond.
    -Tayshaun Prince woke up.

    The negative:

    -We were pretty sloppy this game. Guys need to be able to play fast and under control.
    -Our defense still isn’t consistent or good. We just need to do way better on that end. I think we would’ve won this game if we had.

    Overall:
    -Is Will Bynum a free agent this summer? Because I’d like to see Rodney Stuckey in his role and a rookie shooting guard starting. I say that figuring that we’re probably going to miss the playoffs.

    I really think a solid defender who can move without the ball and shoot well would be an ideal starter and that Stuckey could do a lot for us as the third guard.

    • Nov 10, 20122:51 am
      by ryan

      Reply

      • Nov 10, 20122:56 am
        by tarsier

        Reply

        Muhammad is definitely a long shot. Even if Detroit were awful and finished with the league’s worst record (unlikely), their most likely draft position would be 4th. And right now, Muhammad looks like a top 3 pick with Noel and Zeller in some unknown order. Granted a lot can change (see Drummond at this time a year ago).

        • Nov 10, 20123:00 am
          by ryan

          Reply

          I know man, I know. It’s just wishful thinking. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope might also be a good fit since he’s already supposed to have the off the ball game we need.

          What do you think about Stuckey as the combo guard off the bench?

          • Nov 10, 20123:08 am
            by tarsier

            I’d be totally fine with that. But I wanna see him get a lot of minutes with Knight, at least for this season, to see if they can recover their chemistry they had in the latter parts of last season.

          • Nov 10, 20123:17 am
            by tarsier

            I’d be just as happy with a SF as a SG. Because I figure Singler/English/Middleton can play either of those spots. And James McAdoo seems plausible. 

        • Nov 10, 20125:30 am
          by pokerpro932

          Reply

          Why is our most likely draft position 4th,if we have the worst record?
           

  • Nov 10, 20123:13 am
    by ryan

    Reply

    That makes sense to me. They’re going to need chemistry even if Stuckey’s coming off the bench. This season should be all about developing the younger guys and team chemistry too.

    Right now it looks to me like a top flight shooting guard or small forward is our greatest need. It’d be nice to pick up another rim protector in the second round too even if he’s limited otherwise. Guys who can block shots and defend will always have value next to Greg Monroe.

    • Nov 10, 20123:18 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      I still wonder if Vernon Macklin could have been that guy.

    • Nov 10, 20123:21 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Although, another great possibility would be Udoh. I bet he would be available in trade. Maybe for Singler. I like Singler and all, but he seems incredibly replaceable. And the Pistons even have a pair of rookies with a similar skill set who could theoretically be the replacement.

  • Nov 10, 20123:22 am
    by ryan

    Reply

    Me too. Of course maybe he still can be if he wants to come back from Europe.

  • Nov 10, 20124:03 am
    by @GPMasters

    Reply

    Nice to see Andre get 6/9 free throws as well. Oh for him to maintain that clip.

  • Nov 10, 20128:31 am
    by vic

    Reply

    well Shabazz is ineligible to play NCAA… so i completely understand why its okay to feed the monster and the beast, start getting more rebounds, and eventually increase our winning percentage.

    now that Shabazz is ineligible, he’s more likely to fall in the draft and we may not have to be the worst in the league to get him.

    • Nov 10, 20128:53 am
      by ryan

      Reply

      Aren’t they saying he’ll still be a top three pick? From the reports and the videos he’s going to be a monster.

  • Nov 10, 20128:36 am
    by I LOVE U FRANK

    Reply

    EXPECTATION FOR DRUMMOND:

    The 22pts were great buts its not scoring, I always said players like him can score off or put back and bunnies alone(dwight has done it his whole career)…8 rebs were good but he didn’t dominate the boards….so even if he had 13pts and 6rebs(especially in 21 minutes I would have been happy)…. Drummond had one of the best shuttle-times during the combine,so with his size, length and speed he covers a lot of space, Drummond can make the Pistons a very good or atleast solid defensive team. The excites me, Drummond is one of those players that can change a game and never touch the ball or they never run a play for.

    So what’s going to happen is teams are going make the effort to want to box Drummond out, they are going to make the effort to keep a man on him…then that going to create offensive rebounds for Greg, Jonas, Prince and Yes even Maxiell. However, when he comes off the screen he would be better severed to run down in front of the rim, it might be design or he might always be looking for the lob, but if he runs to the front of the rim it will increase his chance to put his hand on the ball

    Soon team will hesitate on penetrating, because of Drummond presence, and they will start to over pass creating chances for more turnover.

    Drummond offense is going to come in the post EVENTUALLY! He does such a great job at physically establishing position, as a team they have to do a better Job at getting it to him early, but when they do he has to just go up fast and strong….

    I’m not gonna call Drummond the savior for our team, but maybe he is the Lazarus for this team.

  • Nov 10, 20129:18 am
    by Visions

    Reply

    Frank is a very limited coach in seeing the whole picture. He is rigid, closed minded, inflexible and set in a pattern, even when losing there is no awakening. He can’t see the long range potential of this team. He refuses to or is unware of empowering his player. Why did it take so long to have Drummond and Monroe play together???  How can a young team grow if they don’t play…In the most recent game Prince played 35 minutes, Knight 35 minutes, Stuckey 36 minutes with limited success… Why Why Why….Why not empower and play other players… If they are losing why not play other players….His comments about inserting players don’t make sense to me…The Pistons will continue to regress unless Frank’s change his limited rigid mind set.  Why don’t Joe say something??? I understand… But do you? 

  • Nov 10, 20129:39 am
    by DasMark

    Reply

    I think Frank is better suited coaching a team with established veterans. He did a solid job in New Jersey when he took over for Byron Scott. 

    Nate McMillan would have been a better fit for Detroit. IMHO.

    I read in the comments above that someone said we should trade Singler, as he’s easily replaceable. I found that confusing. It isn’t easy to get players who want to play hard on every play on both ends of the floor. Singler isn’t there to be a 20PPG scorer. They need him to be a glue guy, that provides activity.

    Detroit does need to upgrade the 2-guard spot. Stuckey isn’t a long term solution. Luckily, they can bail on his contract after the season! 

    • Nov 10, 201210:34 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I love Nate and think he’s a fantastic coach. But if you think he’s better suited to coaching a young team, you should check out some of his Portland work. The same accusations that Frank gets about playing limited veterans over young guys with upside were a criticism of him there. He’s a better coach than Frank, but it’s not because he works better with young players.

    • Nov 10, 201210:34 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      I don’t particularly want to trade Singler. But I’d be very willing to for a guy with greater upside. You can always get another glue guy. Udoh is one of the best shot blockers in the league. And his defense is all around very solid. He’s not great at staying on the floor or at scoring so he is the kind of guy who doesn’t develop a huge name for himself (so he can be retained at a better price). I wouldn’t want to pin my hopes on him as a starter. But having him back up Monroe/Drummond would make for a beastly front court rotation.

  • Nov 10, 201212:10 pm
    by I LOVE U FRANK

    Reply

    DID YOU KNOW: Before this season Greg Monroe had never recorded a 3 block game?…. However he has already recorded two 3 block-shot games already this season… 

    • Nov 10, 201212:44 pm
      by Desolation Row

      Reply

      I like how you changed your screen name. Awesomeness all around on this thread. 

      Drummond was awesome, I’ve never been so entertained and happy with a loss. Hope is on the way.  

    • Nov 10, 20121:32 pm
      by vic

      Reply

      yeah i love how Monroe is getting more aggressive defensively

  • Nov 10, 20121:55 pm
    by Max

    Reply

    When people justify Drummond’s lack of minutes by saying he could hurt the team on the floor at times because he is so undeveloped, I would ask whether Brandon Knight is really so far ahead of Drummond in his development and whether his flaws hurt the team at times.   The Pistons need to play Drummond 30 plus a night and I really think Drummond showed enough to suggest that he may be the team’s 2nd best player already.   He reminds me of Rubio last year in that whenever he is on the floor, the team just looks a lot different, as in more dynamic, and you can’t take your eyes off Drummond–even the opposing teams seem to pay more attention to him than anyone else. 

    • Nov 10, 20123:40 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I agree and I would actually argue that Knight’s flaws because of his lack of development actually hurt the team far more than Drummond’s because Knight simply doesn’t do enough else at a high level to compensate if his shot isn’t going in. If Drummond isn’t scoring, he’s still likely going to rebound and be a presence inside on D.

      • Nov 10, 20125:12 pm
        by I LOVE U FRANK

        Reply

        Knight has made GREAT strides….even a Kentucky he was a late bloomer at PG ….. Kyrie Irving is currently averaging 6.5 ast and 4 to’s …. Knight is averaging 6.5 and 3 To’s … Now of course Knight isn’t a better scorer than Irving but he isn’t playing for a coach that is giving him the same freedom to either ….

        Knight plays best in a up-tempo offense and in half-court set he need swing players that can and will shoot the ball when they are open… That why he and Singler plays to well together …

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