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Terrence Williams and Jonny Flynn are both competing as point guards

I linked to Will Bynum on Media Day discussing his view of competition with training camp invitee and former lottery pick Jonny Flynn at the point guard spot. Turns out, Flynn isn’t the only competition at that position trying to make the roster. From David Mayo of MLive:

Frank also emphasized that he thinks Williams has been “miscast” as a small forward and that he views the player as a point guard.

That certainly makes more sense than if the Pistons had signed Williams as a wing, which is their deepest position on the roster. Still though, both guys are big time longshots to make the team, unless the Pistons pull off a trade.

 

29 Comments

  • Oct 4, 20125:49 pm
    by sop

    Reply

    Trade please!

  • Oct 4, 20125:55 pm
    by Corey

    Reply

    If one of these two shows well, they can trade Bynum away, or more likely just cut him. The incremental cost of signing one of these two to a minimum salary deal would be very low, and Bynum won’t be on the team next year regardless.

    • Oct 4, 20126:22 pm
      by Oracle

      Reply

      I woild imagine Daye is first cut, unless Bynum has behavior issues, skips practice on thanksgiving, and loses his confidence against NBA players. Similar salaries, no?

      • Oct 5, 20121:46 pm
        by CNA5

        Reply

        Yes, similar, but Daye has a qualifying offer option.  If he shows something in training camp, a team could trade for him and view it as a low risk move.  If he sucks, they just walk away from an expiring deal.  If he’s good, they can extend the qualifying offer as a restricted free agent and keep him.
         
        I agree with most fans, though.  I don’t see Daye being here after this season.  He’d have to take a gigantic step forward (which is possible, but probably not likely).

  • Oct 4, 20126:26 pm
    by Kobina

    Reply

    Pistons – (Daye, Prince, Maxiel, Bynum, Villanueva) + (Williams, Flynn [Magette for cheap]) + Cap space +1 more lottery pick = FUTURE!!!
     

    • Oct 4, 20127:12 pm
      by Mr. Magette

      Reply

      Maggette already said he will probably retire after this season. He ain’ thte future. 

    • Oct 4, 20127:12 pm
      by Mr. Magette

      Reply

      Maggette already said he will probably retire after this season. He ain’ thte future. 

  • Oct 4, 201210:29 pm
    by Otis

    Reply

    The way I see it: 1) The Pistons have nothing to prove or accomplish this season. Even Keith Langlois has finally conceded that it doesn’t look realistic for any of the East’s top 8 teams will miss the playoffs. For some reason he seems to imply that the Pistons are #9, which still seems unrealistic given what Toronto and Milwaukee and maybe even Washington look like on paper, but the bottom line is that the Pistons front office seems to have accepted the truth about the team’s prospects this season, and they aren’t good.
     
    2) Joe Dumars’s recent track record and pattern of poor decision making indicates that our four lame ducks (Bynum, Daye, Maggette, Maxiell) will not be traded at the deadline under any circumstances, but rather they will be allowed to expire and come off the books. Because he has no creativity and any of those players who are contributing enough to have value will be deemed untouchable, lest the team take a meaningless temporary step back for their absence.
     
    so… 3) You may as well trade or release three of them to make room for Flynn, Williams and Big Ben. The former two have a chance of sticking around at a reasonable price, and the latter could be our MVP if he rubs off on Drummond even a little. Joe sold off a part of the future to get cap space a year sooner and give him a chance to save his job, and he shed $15 million in the process. These guys will all be dirt cheap and represent a small investment in the future.
     
    On the other hand, if Joe had the brains to dream of making a deadline trade and maybe move Max or Maggette to a contender for a late first rounder, that’s fine. But I have no faith he will.
     

    • Oct 4, 201211:31 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      Hey Otis, just curiously asking are you the commenter on here formerly known as Laser??

      • Oct 5, 201212:19 am
        by tarsier

        Reply

        There was an Otis even when Laser was commenting.

        • Oct 5, 20121:32 pm
          by Otis

          Reply

          Yeah, where is that guy anyways? Now that you mention it I haven’t seen him in forever.

          • Oct 5, 20128:00 pm
            by gmehl

            I am guessing he left because the pistons are on the up (joke). Nah i actually didn’t mind Laser (in small doses). His comments cut to the chase even if he was a bit too negative with them.

  • Oct 5, 20126:40 am
    by DasMark

    Reply

    Williams is worth kicking the tires on. But, as a PG, he would would be a defensive mismatch. PG’s would likely blast past him. 

    There’s a reason that Flynn and Williams are fighting just to get a minimum contract on a lottery team, nobody else wants them. People are really over valuing these two players.

     

    • Oct 5, 20128:46 am
      by Keith

      Reply

      Completely agree, DasMark. Even if they end up better than expected, the best we can hope for is a short minute bench player. Flynn has negative value on both sides of the ball right now, and Williams only asset is that he’s big enough to play multiple positions (though poorly). These are roster fillers, not guys you build the future with.
       
      At this point, I’m with anyone who wants to dump as many vets from the roster as possible. We aren’t making the playoffs, and we simply need talent. If some misguided star decides to take Joe’s money next offseason, awesome (though more likely it will be an overpaid role player). But with the chance of that being so low, I’d much rather see a high draft pick.

      • Oct 6, 201212:50 am
        by Max

        Reply

        I disagree on your take with regards to Williams. My understanding on Williams is that his problem is maturity, not talent. Go back to his rookie year when when he started the last month and half for the Nets. He was putting up 14+ 7 and 5+, as a rookie. And he was creating those five assists from the wing on a terrible team.
        As far as being a defensive liability as a pg, I don’t buy it. First of all, he’s lengthy and quick. Second, there are any number of ways to pair the back court so that Williams can avoid guarding the Rondo’s of the world.
        I don’t think you can trade Daye. There is no reason to do it before the season starts, at least. Bynum on the other hand, is not going to be here after this year. And he isn’t going to accrue much value between now and the deadline. I say trade him for an upgrade in a 2nd rounder. Trade him for cash. Trade him for some Chipotle, but he has absolutely zero upside (just to be clear, I love Will Bynum…).
        I don’t think there is much downside to chancing it with Williams’ as far as the maturity thing goes. Either he gets it together or we cut him. This isn’t the locker room of 3 years ago where we can’t afford to take in one or two risks. The fact that Frank coached him his rookie season helps. And the upside is tantalizing. He showed more potential for play making his rookie season than Knight did, and he did it playing the 3 – and on a wayyy worse team. I’d love to see him get a shot.
        Flynn, on the other hand, has shown me nothing at all since being drafted. And I always thought that he was picked way too high. I thought that if he maxed his potential he’d end up looking like Jameer Nelson 2.0.

  • Oct 5, 20129:08 am
    by apa8ren9

    Reply

    All of this release talk is just silly.  Its not a video game guys, you just dont release players and pay their salary unless there is a serious problem (like with Rip).   Thats not good for business and its not good if you are trying to attract better players.
    Im sure if one of these guys you’ve targeted is outplayed they will make a roster move because they will have to.  Can the season just start please cause people are losing their minds. Sometimes I cant believe we root for the same team.

    • Oct 5, 20121:36 pm
      by Otis

      Reply

      Let me put it this way: If Will Bynum or Austin Daye isn’t going to play anyways, why not clear room for someone who will? Or someone who could help in the future? Bynum was completely out of the rotation last season because Coach Frank wanted to stick to his three-guard rotation. If he’s just going to rot on the bench and have no trade value, why keep him around? You gotta pay the man anyways, and the three guys we’d like to make room for are going to get minimum contracts.

      • Oct 5, 20121:47 pm
        by apa8ren9

        Reply

        @Otis, that is where your argument is flawed. There is no decree or law that says Daye and Bynum arent going to play.   Nothing is absolute.  They have another chance to change their playing time (with their play) at any point they are on the team.  Daye supposedly has gained 18 lbs.  After 4 years does that fix his faulty defensive rotations and earn him some time?  Does that make him rebound better? You keep implying that Frank and Dumars have already made up their minds and I dont see it.   Im going to the practice on Saturday and I have to see these guys myself.  I will need to see if there is anything different.

    • Oct 5, 20122:12 pm
      by bugsygod

      Reply

      GREAT WORDS!!

  • Oct 5, 201210:24 am
    by revken

    Reply

    I agree it’s very unlikely either of these guys makes the team, and even less likely they’ll replace Bynum.  Ideally we’d have 3 point guards.  While Stuckey can play point some, we’re also thin at SG, and his injury history makes that an iffy bet, too.  So I’ll be shocked if we don’t keep Bynum, unless we do a trade that brings us back a more experienced point guard. 

  • Oct 5, 201211:59 am
    by danny

    Reply

    Williams is a combo guard and can do the play making, like a traditional point.  Flynn is more a distributor so he sees things different than shot first guys.  I love bynum but I do not feel that he is a good fit with our current team.  You guys are quick to bash players before seeing what they really can contribute.  Williams can turn it around.  I’m sure it was just an attitude problem and hopefully he gets that in check in the D.

  • Oct 5, 201212:01 pm
    by Apex_Gamer81

    Reply

    Lol as I’m scanning through the comments I don’t think you ppl really seem to understand. 1st) after this season the pistons will have the most money to spend in F.A 2nd) the pistons could have one of the best big man duo’s in the league if Drummond lives up to the potential. I get it the he’s 19 (pure talent) and as for the hole Flynn n T-will, as a pistons fan I personally don’t see Stuckey as a true point he’s more of a hybrid sg big strong fast, very good medium range shooter he seems to look more relaxed as a sg…an     T-will has spent time in coach franks system he knows it’s ( played for coach with nets his rookie year). An Terrence is a sold defender an has a great outside shot .315% from3pt an like.406 for the floor not a bad steal if you can snag him an give him tie to mature he’s only benn in the league two years going on his third as for the others we got some young talent you just cant write young players off. Give them time to grow polish there skills if they don’t show improvement by year 4 well joe d send them pine riders to home we want another ring in Motown……….

    • Oct 5, 20121:48 pm
      by Otis

      Reply

      1) “The most” free agent money doesn’t mean a damn thing when you can only offer so much money/years, as defined by the CBA. The only cap space any team needs to take away our free agent options is one max contract. And there are more teams with enough cap space to lure guys away from us than free agents worth bringing in. Like many Pistons fans, you wildly underestimate what an unattractive free agent destination this is.
       
      By my count, there are only a few free agents out there who would significantly help this team who might theoretically come play here if you put a gun to their head: David West, Josh Smith, James Harden. That’s pretty much it. Paul, Bynum, Howard aren’t coming here. There’s probably no point in trying to bring in Al Jefferson or Chris Kaman at this point. So your chances are slim and none at capitalizing on that cap room, if you want to be realistic. Much more likely that Joe is “forced” to split it on two overpaid role players, and we all saw how that worked out.
       
      2) VERY big “Could” and “If” in that sentence. Why count chickens before they hatch?
       
      3) Your assumption that Terrence Williams will make the team is equally premature.

  • Oct 5, 20124:16 pm
    by Corey

    Reply

    Harden would be my #1 perfect signing for the pistons next year, so your statement that he’s one of the few free agents they’d have a shot at is far from disappointing.  Chris Paul might be better, but only in the very short term. And I agree he’s not coming here.

    But Harden… if they get him the sky is the limit. What if they take $28M and offer it to Harden and Smith? $14M each? Maybe $15M for Harden (whatever the max for him is) and $13M for Smith?

    Monroe, Josh Smith, Harden, Stuckey, and some role players would make a strong playoff team. If Drummond pans out as well, that team is a contender, even if he’s only good at the defensive end. 

    Or forget Josh Smith entirely, as I think he’d be a luxury if Drummond develops. How about either Tony Allen or Andre Iguodala? Possibly the two best wing defenders in the game that aren’t named Lebron.  If they could sign either one and move Prince to a backup role (or out of town), a line up of:

    Monroe, Drummond, Kravtsov, and Jerebko
    Iguodala/Allen, Singler/Prince/Jerebko/Daye/abagofchips
    Stuckey, English/abagofpretzels
    Harden/Knight

    is one hell of a team.  At a minimum you have two young solid All-Star talents in Monroe and Harden, another who might sniff one or two all star games in his career (Stuckey), and a young center with limitless potential. That team would only be “Andre Drummond becoming good – not great, just good” from being a real contender for several years.  So if you’re telling us that’s the Pistons ceiling a year from now, I say, “OK!” 

    • Oct 5, 20127:34 pm
      by Venice

      Reply

      And if you spend everything on the FAs, Do you think a small market like Detroit have the money to extend the contracts of Monroe and Knight? I dont think so .

      • Oct 5, 20128:31 pm
        by gmehl

        Reply

        I was just about to say that we still have to pay Moose and maybe Knight. They wont stay here for cheap.

  • Oct 5, 201210:22 pm
    by Corey

    Reply

    That spending would only get us to the cap. The following year we pay Monroe a lot more, and we’re still under the luxury tax. The following year stuckey’s contract is over, and we could use the money to pay Knight, if he’s better than Stuckey at that point. The following year we’ll have to pay Drummond, but Tayshaun will finally be off the books. That could all be worked out. They WILL spend the free agent money next year if they can sign good players. Otherwise, the only option is to use it in trades before Monroe needs a contract extension.

    The danger of course is that they get desperate, overspend on lousy players, and ruin the opportunity that is coming.

    • Oct 5, 201211:57 pm
      by Venice

      Reply

      Nah, I think its better not to use all the cap we have. Its better to for us to have a flexibility incase of injuries, trades, etc.

  • Oct 6, 20122:03 pm
    by Slap Dog Hoops

    Reply

    I’ll be rooting for Terrence Williams, despite him being a train wreck thus far in his career.  Hopefully the Pistons will find a space for Johnny Flynn as well.  

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