There are obviously other measures besides regular-season wins, but without looking, where do you think the Pistons rank in wins during the last 25 years?

- I’m not resentful of the debates that go on. But I reject the notion that, if people express an opinion that sees a player differently than you see that player, they are under-appreciating said player or said team. I am absolutely not going to get into the Isiah-Stockton debate again, but using it as an example, having watched both players growing up, having looked at statistical comparisons, I could accept someone making a case that Stockton was better, whether or not I agree. But that doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate the hell out of Thomas. Same with the current Pistons. I love Brandon Knight. Love watching him, love rooting for him, hope he becomes a star because he genuinely seems like a good person who wants to succeed really badly. But I can still write about flaws in his game. That doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate him or respect what he’s trying to do. I’m just trying to express an honest, balanced opinion without letting my personal affinity for him cloud what I write. I think those same sentiments apply to most commenters here. Some are right, some are wrong. I think the majority love this franchise and like most of the players on this team, even if they find some of the players flawed or more flawed than you think they are.

- As for the Monroe part of this thread, I don’t see how anyone bashed the guy. It all started with someone saying he thought Monroe’s ceiling was ‘really good’ but not ‘great’ player, and then I pressed that person on why he thought that, because I personally think his ceiling is ‘great.’ It’s a subjective thing. No one will be proven right or wrong until Monroe retires someday a long time in the future. But I don’t see how Monroe was ‘unappreciated.’ The worst thing someone said about him is he’s going to be a consistently very good player.

Would the Pistons have been better off bottoming out? Hard to say. That’s like asking if a guy who just played a game in which he was taking a ton of bad shots but managing to make most of them anyway would have been better off taking good shots. In that specific game, he may not have been. But typically, he would be. So it was a poor strategy even if it payed off.

I’m hoping they continue to exceed expectations. But Dumars approach of just waiting around for ways to make incremental improvements is not a reliable approach. If he wanted to go for being a playoff team but not a contender, why did he make the Billups trade et al in the first place?

My question for you, I suppose, would be: What do you expect in terms of his growth in order to break out? I suppose he could become a knock-down 15-17 foot shooter like McDyess or Garnett, but that’s about all I think is reasonable at that point, and it would take a tremendous amount of work. He’s got the size, smarts and fundamentals. He’s not likely to develop into a dominant low post scorer or elite defender. Maybe he’s just what he is. And that’s fine, but I just don’t see the point in putting guys on a pedestal just because their jersey has your city’s name on it.

I know you guys have had this “Internal Improvement” series going, and that’s really the only hope for this season and who knows maybe next, but internal improvement isn’t a guarantee, and I don’t think it’s going to get this team very far– at least not any time soon. When fans talk about how we have a great young team and should be patient and not make moves, I think they’re just holding the team back and getting in the way of progress. Until this team actually looks good, why not encourage moves that would better our situation?

So how is that bashing? It’s recognizing that the team has been bad. Not historically, epically bad. But not fun to follow bad.