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Detroit rookies Andre Drummond, Kim English and Khris Middleton give hope for bench production this season in loss to Bucks

Hopefully, Andre Drummond won’t have an opportunity to be a productive member of Detroit’s second unit this season because he’ll be too busy starting. But for the time being, Drummond is considered a reserve, and after scoring 18 points with 10 rebounds and two blocks in a 108-91 loss to the Milwaukee Bucks Saturday, it’s pretty clear he’ll be more ready to contribute something right away more quickly than most anticipated.

Drummond’s performance wasn’t without its hiccups — he fouled out in 25 minutes and he still sometimes leaves his feet too much on defense (Drew Gooden beat him badly with a pump fake in the fourth quarter). But he provides energy, defense and dunks when he’s on the court and, although the Pistons overall played very poorly for the second straight preseason game, their rookies are giving some hope that the Pistons could piece together a competent bench despite the struggles of some veteran players.

Charlie Villanueva shot 1-for-9 in 16 minutes. Austin Daye was 1-for-3. Both players, whose biggest asset is their 3-point shooting, have yet to make a 3-pointer in three preseason games. The Pistons came into this game having made just 4-for-31 from three in their previous two games, so although Daye and Villanueva didn’t do anything to bolster that effort, Kim English and Khris Middleton did in their first preseason action.

English shot 2-for-3 from three and Middleton was 3-for-6. In the two times I’ve watched English as a Piston (the other being the open practice), he seems to jump in the air a bit too much, and it can result in turnovers like a really bad pass he made in the fourth quarter tonight. Middleton had a pretty well-rounded effort with 11 points, five rebounds three assists and two steals. He moves well and his shot mechanics look good despite the fact that he didn’t shoot a particularly great percentage from three in college. The potential for him to be a good shooter seems to be there.

Some weaknesses of the Pistons have obviously been exposed this preseason, but perimeter shooting has been a big one. If the Pistons are going to have good spacing for Greg Monroe to operate in the post or if they’re going to create driving lanes for Rodney Stuckey and Brandon Knight, they’re going to need players to knock down shots. Through two games, that looked like it would be a serious problem this season. After tonight, it still could be, but at least Middleton and English showed that if the players in front of them on the depth chart aren’t making shots, they have the ability to do it.

Poor frontcourt defense

Jonas Jerebko and Corey Maggette got the starts at the forward spots tonight, and both played well offensively. Maggette had 14 points and Jerebko had 11. Both shot over 50 percent. But they were part of a frontcourt defense that was pretty uninspiring.

Ersan Ilyasova got pretty much anything he wanted against any defender the Pistons threw at him. Sam Dalembert was 5-for-6 off the bench. Drew Gooden and John Henson didn’t shoot particularly well, but neither guy had a problem getting quality looks. Small forwards Marquis Daniels, Tobias Harris and Mike Dunleavy also had no problem getting good shots, even though Dunleavy was the only one from that group who shot well. Ilyasova is a really underrated player, but the Pistons are going to see far better frontcourts than Milwaukee’s this season. Their reserves are going to have to provide more resistance than what we saw tonight.

Knight’s turnovers creeping up, but he continues to create for others

The obvious weaknesses in Knight’s game as a rookie were the fact that he turned it over too much and he didn’t create good shots for others enough. So far this season, we’ve seen improvements in one of those areas. He had eight assists against the Bucks after having six and five in the first two preseason games. But his turnovers have crept up from two to five to six against Milwaukee.

Turnovers are obviously problematic, but they’re easier to live with if his passing continues. He only took six shots against the Bucks and he really seems to be making efforts to be a pass-first player. A few times tonight, he seemed to be a little too unselfish, which may have contributed to his turnovers. The Pistons need Knight to be a passer, but they also need his scoring and shooting.

Stuckey off to poor shooting start

Last night, I mentioned Tayshaun Prince‘s cold shooting to start last season as a contributing factor to the Pistons’ poor start. It’s also worth mentioning that Rodney Stuckey got off to a really poor shooting start last season and, like Prince, he’s struggled so far this preseason. Stuckey is just 8-for-22 through three games. He also has eight turnovers. He’s still getting to the line some, but like with Prince, the Pistons don’t really have a margin for error this season, so both guys have to get off to solid starts once the regular season opens.

53 Comments

  • Oct 13, 201211:33 pm
    by DasMark

    Reply

    Drummond has been solid in the preseason. I don’t see how Frank could start Maxiell over him. 

    Then again, if they wanted to boost Maxiell’s trade potential, they would start him. We’ll see what happens.

    Villanueva repeats the same process. Talks himself up all offseason. Season start, Charlie continues to show us his best years were the ones when we still thought he could be special.

    Austin Daye, I believe this is a guy who’s ego has gotten in the way of his talent.  

    • Oct 13, 201211:59 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Max is just an expiring contract. That is his trade potential. Nobody is trading for him because he is such a valuable player. His value to the Pistons or to anyone who may inquire after him is that he comes off the books when the year is up.

      Even if that weren’t the case, you never play a guy to boost his trade potential. You play guys to win or to develop them. Trades are unpredictable enough that you just let the pieces fall where they may on trade values. 

      • Oct 14, 20124:32 am
        by Tom Y.

        Reply

        I’d say Max has more value than just his expiring contract. Sure his contract would be a big part of the reason to trade for him, but he can also really help a playoff team or contender. Another solid big off the bench can be useful for a lot of teams.
        I do agree though that you don’t start him to showcase him. For now, it looks like Drummond deserves to start.

      • Oct 14, 20129:46 am
        by DasMark

        Reply

        I agree, you shouldn’t play a guy to increase his profile. But, it happens. I believed that was the reason they began starting Maxiell last year, it just turned out he was better than the alternatives. 

        But, if he’s coming back in even better shape, He could have legit value, even to the Pistons. We’ll wait and see where this scenario goes.  

  • Oct 13, 201211:54 pm
    by Vic

    Reply

    I missed 90 % of the game, but those stats look beautiful.
    Drummond 19 and 10 and 2.
    Maggette scoring efficiently.
    Middleton doing it all.
    English hitting shots.
    Jerebko hitting shots.
    T will doing everything.

    Thats all the preseason is about, finding out where guys are at. 

    The Pistons are looking pretty good, if you take CV, Daye, and Prince out of the rotation. Now it’s just time to see where Lawrence Franks courage is at. To be fair, Prince never really starts hitting shots till the regular season, so i’ll give him the benefit of the doubt for right now.

    Right now here’s my lineup. 

    Knight Bynum TWill
    Stuckey Maggette English
    Prince Jerebko Middleton
    Monroe Maxiell
    Drummond Kravtsov 
     

  • Oct 14, 201212:20 am
    by Keith

    Reply

    Drummond continues to destroy the offensive boards, and it’s crazy how much the Pistons have been missing someone who can do something as simple as finish easy baskets in the paint. I hope Frank is smart enough to put Drummond out there with the starters, and I hope the guards start actively looking for him on lobs and in pick and rolls. Maxiell starting offers no benefit now or in the future.
     
    If CV or Daye should not play a minute unless multiple serious injuries hit. They offer no value on either side of the ball. It would be one thing if it was just a slump, but it’s years now. Both have to be near the bottom of defenders in the entire league. Even if they could shoot, their value is negative overall. I would rather pretend Jerebko is a stretch 4 than continue trotting out those jokers.

  • Oct 14, 201212:25 am
    by Jack

    Reply

    Drummond was to put it simply dominant.  No plays were run for him and he gets 19 points and 10 rebounds.  Between Moose, Pimp juice, Krastov, Jerebko, and Max we could have one of the best if not the best offensive rebounding teams this season.  I hope Drummond starts at C and Moose moves over to the PF.  My Line up

    Knight/Bynum
    Stuckey/English/Middelton
    Prince/Maggette/Single/Daye
    Monroe/Jerebko/Max/CV
    Drummond/Krastov 

    With CV and Daye Watching from the Bench and not playing.  If any body is worries about depth at pg, Stuckey can play a few minutes there, and Prince or any of the other off guards can initiate the offense.  Franks plan is to push push push, so really unless we are playing a half court game, that can be most of the 1s, 2s, and 3s. 

  • Oct 14, 201212:29 am
    by Mark

    Reply

    Plain and Simple. This team is just not good enough to afford the luxury of bringing a beast like Drummond off the bench, when our starting lineup is avg at best without him.

    He’s been the best player on the team thus far for pete’s sake! 

    Frank needs to get with the program and quick. Enough dicking around with these crazy rotations   . This team is trying to develop a winning culture. They can;t afford to just get blown out every night anymore playing scrubs, just for the sake of experimenting.
     
    Time to get with it. Start Drummond the rest of the way and the rest of the pieces will fall into fall place. You build from the inside out. The foundation is Drummond and Moose.  Start them together and the rest will sort itself out.

    Kim/Khris looked awesome btw. We lack shooting so much in the starting lineup, we might beed to find a way to start one of them. Maybe over Tay or even Stuckey, who could be a great backup combo guard. I don’t care if they are rookies we need shooting that badly. 

    • Oct 14, 201212:46 pm
      by Jerrific

      Reply

      You realize the entire point of preseason is to experiment and evaluate the bottom half of the roster, right? Wins don’t matter right now. Finding out where our players are at so we can set ourselves up for more wins when it does count is what matters. 

  • Oct 14, 201212:30 am
    by Mark

    Reply

    I will say they make a nice tandem together though, and could be just what we need as duo off the bench. 

    We do have some nice pieces here. Frank just needs to put them together properly and it starts with the easiest decision – starting Drummond

  • Oct 14, 201212:56 am
    by Corey

    Reply

    Starting Drummond isn’t that important for a few more games. Heck, he might not even PLAY in the next one, as it’ll probably be Kravtsov’s turn to get big minutes at center.  It’s already obvious Drummond should be in the rotation and play at least half of every game. But who should get the rest of the center minutes? Maxiel? Kravtsov? Monroe? We need to play Kravtsov to get him used to the NBA game, and find out if he’s ready. Playing Drummond and Moose together 30+ minutes a game doesn’t help that.  It doesn’t provide enough opportunity for Daye and CV to play themselves off the roster (we can dream).  It’s entirely logical to be playing a mix of everyone and see who’s got it together. The last few preseason games are soon enough to work the kinks out of the regular rotation.
     
     

  • Oct 14, 201212:56 am
    by Mel

    Reply

    Also don’t forget, or if you didn’t know. L Frank has been having the player have full practices before the games instead of walk throughs. So for some the starter that played every game they may have tired legs which equals poor shooting.( He’s trying to push them to see who will give it there all when the time counts.) I won’t speak for Daye or CV, But Stuck, Knight and Moose I’d say they’ll be ok once the season starts. Drummond is playing just like he did in high school and the good games he had at UConn. He just needs some structure, but with his soft touch and agility he makes up for the fact he’s not polished. AD1 is simply a BEAST, Love it.  

  • Oct 14, 20121:39 am
    by Mark

    Reply

    Well it all depends if the goal is to win or not. imo Drummond starting and playing 30+ mpg gives this team the best chance to win.

    He’s 19, but Knight was 19 last year too and avg 37 mpg as a rookie. Drummond doesn’t need to be coddled. He’s not a baby, and is a lot more mature and developed than he’s given credit. Just put him out there and let him go. He’s clearly ready to me.

  • Oct 14, 20121:45 am
    by MNM

    Reply

    …But Austin Daye was so go in summer league………………………………………………………………….

  • Oct 14, 20121:47 am
    by Jack

    Reply

    Exactly.  The goal is not to see who can play their way off the roster or who can’t.  The goal is to win.  This **** is okay in the pre-season.  But I really hope Drummond starts at C, with backup minutes going to Krastov.  Moose can play some if they get in foul trouble/or given matchup situation.  The TIME IS NOW.

  • Oct 14, 20123:01 am
    by Seto

    Reply

    Yeah, Drummond was dominant, but I think we should still start Maxiell next to Monroe. When they played together we were .50 team, we have tough schedule to start with and those guys have chemistry. I think we can wait and see how the things are going and then use Drummond as a starter. He will also have better chance to be dominant against reserves and it seems that Bynum is the only player whose intentionally looking for Drummond. The goal is to win games this year and I think that Max and Monroe as starters at the start of the season are the best solution. But still I think that once he gets used to the real NBA games and the tempo of the schedule, then he should start of course. Around 10 – 20 games into the season.

  • Oct 14, 20129:14 am
    by RyanK

    Reply

    Why haven’t we seen Monroe and Drummond on the floor together?  I’m guessing because they are going to bring Drummond along slowly…he’s not going to play with Monroe early on.  They probably want Drummond going against the other team’s reserves to start his career.
     
    What surprises me is it looks like Monroe is taller than Drummond…tough to say for sure.  Drummond is probably longer with what appear to be freakishly long arms. 

    • Oct 14, 201210:53 am
      by Keith

      Reply

      Monroe and Drummond were measured at the same height without shoes according to their pre-draft measurements. And yes, Drummond had a slightly higher standing reach/wingspan. Although the bigger difference is athleticism. Monroe’s athleticism is more Okafor or Jefferson, while Drummond is like Howard.
       
      I, too, wonder why we haven’t seen more Drummond-Monroe together. Monroe could be setting up Drummond for easy shots too (he’s a great passer), and also use Drummond as a safety valve when Monroe is getting mobbed around the basket. Also, it’s a far better defensive combo. For all that Monroe does, his defense is pretty terrible. Maxiell only compounds the defensive problems due to his size. Further, center has greater impact on the defense simply due to his positioning. By forcing Monroe to play C, his defensive deficiency is only more apparent and harmful. Drummond solves both issues, playing C so Monroe has less responsibility and having the requisite size to actually alter shots (unlike Maxiell).

  • Oct 14, 20129:44 am
    by acr

    Reply

    Wow.  I love out of state, so I can’t watch the games, but I caught the Drummond highlights on youtube.  Dude looked like a beast.  Hope he keeps it up and gets some burn when the games start to count…

    • Oct 14, 201211:14 am
      by Tom Y.

      Reply

      I like loving out of state… do you only go as far as the state border? And do you always do it during games and therefore can’t watch?

  • Oct 14, 20129:46 am
    by acr

    Reply

    “Live” not love…

  • Oct 14, 201211:50 am
    by bugsygod

    Reply

    I guess Drummond is NOT going to be a bust like Dan Feldman said when we drafted him.

    • Oct 14, 201212:06 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I’m not going to get into this stuff with you again. You know you are trolling, so just stop. No one on this site or any other site I’ve read has said Drummond is ‘going’ to be a bust. Writing that he had serious bust potential based on things that had been leaked out from people who have been around him up close, along with his underwhelming college production, is not saying he’s ‘going’ to be a bust.

      You define yourself as only a fan, so you have the advantage of being able to choose to be solely a cheerleader who never takes a critical look at anything. That’s fine, you’re entitled to that. The people writing for this site are also fans, but we also have to make efforts to not just report on the positive aspects of things. Sometimes, that means writing that a young player has bust potential. That’s obviously not something that will be popular among people who only want to cheerlead and be positive, and that’s fine. But we still have to write it. Doesn’t mean anyone was rooting for him not to succeed or saying he definitely wouldn’t succeed.

      • Oct 14, 20121:10 pm
        by bugsygod

        Reply

        “Andre Drummond – Great Pick and Probable Bust -Makes draft night marvelous for himself and Pistons”  – that was the title of the 1st article on Drummond after draft night from this blog PistonsPowered.  Probable Bust was what was said then.  It would just be nice to admit when your wrong sometimes.  Hes not Darko, Hes Not a bust.  You guys use the same line of thinking with knight, its all about stats, advanced stats, future stats etc.  Sometimes you have to look at a guy AND his character.  Most draft picks are not busts, because of the physical talent, it is because of there mental character make up.  Drummond was never questioned about his character, it was his focus for being 17/18 yrs old in college.  Instead of blaring an alarm bell that this guy “probably” wont make it, how bout thinking of yourselves as 16/17/18 yr old kid, probably not the most serious or mature.  Think if he goes to a strong org, that has won titles, has demostrated Great character over the years and has been a model franchise in the league.  Yes if he went to the kings, wizards or warriors, he may not have been successul(not that he is now) as those orgs have been consistent losers and Dysfunctional for years.  NOT the detroit pistons. 
        *
        me as a fan of the team does not put rose colored glasses on me at all!!  I dont really care who is wearing the uniform, i just care about the team and winning.  I am also very realistic about the team, mngmt, players and ownership.  Drummond is now just another great piece to the TEAM.  We have a very good low post scorer/rebounder in Monroe, Shot blocking/Dunking athletic big in Drummond … Both with all star potential.  We have a smart athletic hard working pg that can make the 3 is tough and has close to all star potential in knight.  Jerbko provides energy and toughness.  I think singler,english, slava and middleton will all one day provide good bench play with scoring and defense.  The rest of the team will not be part of deep playoff runs or championships.  We need a starting 2guard and SF.  So if we do not make the playoffs this year, another lottery pick and FA$$ to add those two positons.  

      • Oct 14, 20121:19 pm
        by bugsygod

        Reply

        Why not the title: “Pistons get there man in Drummond”, “Drummond falls to Pistons based on focus/maturity issues”, “Detroit is floor on Drummond fall, Pistons welcome the risk”, “Super Talented Drummond falls to Pistons, focus/maturity major concerns”, “Pistons looking for shot blocking and defense get there man – Drummond”.  
        But know first thing Dan writes is he will be a “probable bust”.  LOL, true fans you are patrick and dan.  Like i always say we will be a great team again in the near future.  Then you guys can talk about how we are going to lose in the first round to the Heat or Celtics. 

        • Oct 14, 20123:08 pm
          by Georgio

          Reply

          Agree with you 100%, some of us took issue with the title of the article when it was written and of course were called all kind of names by the moderators. Glad you took notice. 

          • Oct 14, 201210:00 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            @Georgio:

            If you are critical of something someone writes and you respond with that criticism, explain to me how it is improper if the ‘moderators’ respond to you if they think your criticism is wrong? I believe there’s a saying about dishing it out and taking it that might apply here?

            Let me give you a scenario here. I write for this site out of passion for basketball, passion for this team I’ve grown up following and been invested in for more than 20 years now and passion for writing. I don’t get paid, I don’t do it as a job or career. I write for PistonPowered because it is a creative outlet for me to combine some things I care about. I invest a lot of myself into what I write here, I sacrifice time that I could probably be doing more productive things and I do it because I genuinely think I’ve had a small hand in helping Dan build his site into the absolute best place to have conversations with people about the Pistons anywhere. I obviously believe in what I write, I’m passionate about it and I think the same can be said for Dan and for anyone else whose byline has appeared on his site. It’s cheesy to say, but this is like a home for me. There are people here I enjoy talking to, I enjoy trying to challenge myself to write better or more compelling content every day and I enjoy hearing feedback and other opinions from people, even dissenting opinions, when they’re expressed reasonably.

            But when people stroll into my home with dirty shoes, when they grind those muddy ass shoes into my suede coach and act like loudmouths, sometimes I will (figuratively) respond by punching the shit out of their legs to try and get them to leave.

            There is a lot more leeway to post things in the comments here than there is on other sites. I think that’s important. If something I write inspires someone to call me names or try to trash my credibility or reputation down here in the comments, so be it. But don’t expect me to take it silently. Dan has a different style than I do about responding to comments and he’s more easily able to let things like that go. I’m not, and I make no apologies for hurting feelings if I think someone is wrong. I have always and will always continue to speak up down here if I disagree.

          • Oct 15, 201210:03 am
            by Crispus

            I remember this turned into a huge fight, but in my opinion the original post/article was a little snarky, and almost gleefully dismissive. If I remember correctly, Dan went to the draft and may have even talked to Drummond himself (I can’t recall) then wrote about him like some doomed statistic with no agency, and only a measure of humanity. You don’t have to write lies to be optimistic, and I didn’t see the point of being super-neutral to the point of a lack of reasonable empathy. It didn’t have to be a puff piece, but the distinct impression I got was that Dan knew the odds were against Drummond, and was more excited about the stats proving it, than the prospect of Drummond overcoming said stats and becoming great.

            Then again that’s just my opinion. Some of the commenters on here were taking things too far and getting under Patrick’s skin. However I think Drummond is a much greater force, “raw” as he is, than most of us expected. I say let optimism abound – we’ve already been prepared extensively for a letdown, at least on this blog.

          • Oct 15, 201210:10 am
            by Crispus

            I just reread the post. It wasn’t as cold as I remembered, but the sunglasses thing caused quite the brouhaha. It was the back and forth, negative-positive tone of the article that bothered me. I guess the article couldn’t possibly be wrong – it can only be 50% wrong because it took both sides. Either way it’s wonderful that “Andre the Giant” had a good offseason and is having a really good preseason too.

          • Oct 15, 201210:15 am
            by Patrick Hayes

            @Crispus:

            I think your criticism is entirely, 100 percent fair. I would never object to what you just said above. 

            My issues revolved around people drawing conclusions that weren’t actually in Dan’s post  and supporting those faulty conclusions with even faultier logic in an annoying way. 

        • Oct 14, 20129:42 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          @bugsy:

          Like I said, I’m not going to get into a debate about it with you again. The post/title was what it was. Some people understood the point Dan was making, some didn’t. That’s just a product of opinion writing. My personal opinion is that you interpreted some elements of the post differently than they were intended, and you’re entitled to do that. But if you look back in that thread, I think plenty of others also got what he meant when he wrote it too, so you’re not right. You have your opinion and you’re entitled to it, like I said. It doesn’t mean you’re right about it.

          I do take exception to your post above, though, when you say, “It would be nice to admit when you’re wrong sometimes.” To be fair, we have both written plenty of times on this site about getting things wrong. I think it’s one of the reasons people read — we actually revisit predictions we make and have fessed up to being off on things. But when it comes to Drummond, first of all, the post you are referencing didn’t even say that Drummond wouldn’t make it. It said he had high bust potential, it said he had more red flags than the other elite lottery prospects (which is why he fell out of the top three where he belonged) but it never said, “Andre Drummond is going to be a bust.” And secondly, if Drummond has a rookie season close to what he’s been producing in the preseason, I think you will absolutely see myself and Dan write multiple times that we were, in fact, wrong about how long it might take Drummond to develop into a contributor.

          But be serious man. He’s played two good preseason games against non-playoff teams. For you to be drawing a conclusion that he’s definitely not going to be a bust is just as crazy as if someone had actually said after the draft that Drummond will never make it. It will take a full season or more to actually evaluate if Drummond was the right pick there, and it will not only be based on how good Drummond gets, but how good Henson gets as well, since there were plenty of people who thought he was a reasonable pick at that spot too.

          • Oct 15, 20122:00 pm
            by bugsygod

            “Of course, that comes with no gurantees – and if forced to make a binary success-or-failure call to day, i’d bet on Drummond busting.”  That is the direct quote from Dan on the article, if he was betting he would say Drummond would bust.  Again i took the article as negative and like crispus said it was almost ”gleefully dismissive”.  I consitently state the bad and the good with the pistons.  I was ECSTACTIC when we got Drummond, so to read that type of article was a big downer in my opinion.  Also i know the pistons have made mistakes high in the draft and what i stated was that it is usually Character that makes a guy bust.  In the cases of Rodney and darko it was there charcter why they didnt succeed.  If you look at cleaves, it was his physical ability that held him back.  So i stated if the player has the physical tools, which Drummond has, the only way to bust(outside of injury) is because of the players character.  I studied drummond alot before the draft and during the college season and i just saw a young kid that needed direction.  Comes from good family background and has never been in trouble.  So i thought the Pistons would be able to provide that direction as he has zero character issues. But we have gone over this before, so i will just leave it alone.  I guess both you and Dan hope Drummond succeeds and becomes an all star player. 

      • Oct 14, 20123:19 pm
        by revken

        Reply

        To be fair, even Keith Langlois of Pistons.com said Drummond had high bust potential when he was writing about guys the Pistons might pick.  Also, if you look closely at previous drafts, a lot of guys don’t make it.  There have been many bigs who were busts, or at least didn’t come close to realizing their anticipated potential. For example, Patrick O’Bryant was also picked #9 (in 2006), and he proved to be a total bust.  Personally, I was scared of this pick not panning out.  Right now it’s looking good, and if Drummond becomes a star, then Dumars will look like a gutsy genius.  I think all of us who doubted the pick will be thrilled if we’re proved wrong.  But any one who wrote about the pick right after it happened and acted like it was a sure home run was being really naive. 

        • Oct 14, 20125:50 pm
          by bugsygod

          Reply

          Not saying there is no bust potential or was bust potential.  BUT, i thought what organization he went to would be the key factor.  So i thought him coming to Detroit tipped the scales toward him realizing his potential.  Of course many sources wrote about the risk factor for Drummond, but to say he “probalby would be a bust” the day after the draft was highly negative coming from supposed pistons fans.  I mean in most piston fans dream scenario Drummond falling to us was just a hope and a dream.  So i thought to get the guy MOST people wanted if he was there was cause for a little celebration, not he’s a bust.   But thats all water under the bridge now lets just be happy we might have one of “those guys”.  You know on the other team we watch and say “hes dunking hard everytime, .. wish we had one of those guys”.. LOL  Go drummond starting!

          • Oct 14, 20129:50 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            “So i thought him coming to Detroit tipped the scales toward him realizing his potential.”

            But see, there’s plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise too. Rodney White and Darko Milicic were both raw, athletic, talented and inexperienced when they came to Detroit and neither came close to living up to any sort of expectation. Young players who have been reasonably successful here have either been picked outside the lottery — Prince, Okur, Maxiell, Stuckey, Jerebko — or they were reasonably productive, key players on good college teams (Monroe, Knight). Drummond doesn’t fit into those groups, he’s closer to the Milicic/White unproven definition. The Pistons have developed some young talent some over the years, but they’ve also never been really successful with a player like Drummond who most scouts felt needed a lot of work. It doesn’t mean it’s impossible for them to help him realize his potential, but I certainly wouldn’t say they’re the perfect team to do it either.

            “I mean in most piston fans dream scenario Drummond falling to us was just a hope and a dream.”

            Dan wrote those same sentiments in many pieces before the draft and in the Drummond piece you are so pissed about still. I believe he called him the ‘only’ pick they could make when he was still on the board, or something like that. 

  • Oct 14, 201211:53 am
    by Crispus

    Reply

    Would “Andre the Giant” be a good nickname for Drummond?

    • Oct 14, 201212:45 pm
      by bugsygod

      Reply

      Great Name I was thinking same thing watching him!

  • Oct 14, 20121:34 pm
    by Corey

    Reply

    Drummond actually only measured as 6’10″ tall, I think, at the draft combine – without shoes. Monroe is taller. However, Drummond has a HUGE wingspan and high standing reach due to very long arms, so the shorthand is to call him a seven footer. With his reach and athleticism, he plays bigger than a lot of 7 footers. He has substantially more reach (a few inches) than tyler zeller or even Myers Leonard, who measured 7’1″ tall at the combine. 
    Compare Andre the Giant (I like it!) to anyone other than Shaq, and he matches up. Dwight Howard had a higher vertical reach, but a smaller wingspan.  A faster sprint time, but lower agility score.  And Howard was 39 pounds lighter (and a year, or part of a year, younger).  The sky is the limit.

    • Oct 14, 20123:11 pm
      by Tom Y.

      Reply

      As Keith pointed out above, they measured the same in pre-draft measurements (6’9.75″). You can look it up on Draftexpress. Drummond measured half an inch taller in shoes which I guess means he wore taller shoes. Maybe he and Monroe switched shoes.
      Anyway I do agree he’s practically a 7-footer with his rediculous wingspan and hops. There’s no one in the league who looks to have a better combination of size and athleticism though some guys (Howard, McGee) are more or less his equals.

      • Oct 14, 20123:20 pm
        by acr

        Reply

        You spelled “ridiculous” incorrectly.  I “love” that.

        • Oct 15, 20122:03 am
          by Tom Y.

          Reply

          Didn’t mean to get down on you before, was just making a joke.

  • Oct 14, 20123:07 pm
    by Lake Side Live

    Reply

    I’ll be interested to see how L plays in his lineups in game 4 of the preseason against the magic, because he’s said in the past that he was going to use the early preaseason to experiment and give guys time in rotation and the latter part of the preaseason to develop cohesiveness and chemistry among the Set rotations.  I just wonder when the early part of the preseason ends and the latter part of the preseason starts for frank game 4, 5 or 6?

    Also Patrick I was just wondering  in your section about Knight you said his turnovers went from 2 to 5 to 6 but the stats sheet on NBA.com say in game two he had 3 turnovers, are you using a different metric?  Just want to make sure because like everyone I’m following Brandon’s assist to turnover ratio very closely and want have an accurate reading at the end of the preseason.  I completely agree with you that last night he seemed to be over compensating to be a pass first point guard but his confidence might have wavered after some of those blocked shots.
     

  • Oct 14, 20123:11 pm
    by rick77

    Reply

    Wow I am amazed that after three pre-season games everyone knows what to expect. If the players on this team that folks don’t like had good games I swear people would say “Oh it’s just pre-season and wait til teh real games start”. I like our team and it’s makeup but to sit here and annoint guys because they are on our squad is indeed laughable. I mean what has Singler, Middleton, English, or any other new guy on our team done over a consistent NBA season? Nothing. So my point is dont get all caught up in a 18point performance if you cant handle when it’s 2points and fouled out. I hate that most don’t like Stuckey or Prince for that matter but in order to be successful a NBA team has to have the right “mix”. Prince does not have to play 30minutes a night to be effective but what he can do is priovide knowldge and help those young guys get the most out of ther time while playing behind him. I dont know but the majority of teams that do win it always have veteran leadership. I haveyet to see as young team go out and win the NBA finals as it does not happen. Just because cats are young does not quantify success in this league. Hence why alot people want Ben Wallace to come and teach the young bigs on our team. If we go full bore with a young team alot of you will be pissed as the results will not be what we are expecting. Consider when Greg Monroes contract comes up will he want to keep rebuilding or go to a team that will be a winner. I am all for having young talent but at what expense do you go full bore? Not being a hater but trying to be a realist with my expectations. Get rid of certain dead weight and move forward. Going with energy every night at a certain spot will only get us so far as a team. At some point you need to have players that are cerebral because at the end of the day everyone knows how to play the game its a mattr of executing and beating your opponent in every phase of the game. Doesnt matter if we field the youngest team, but what matters is we field a complete team.

    • Oct 14, 201210:12 pm
      by Jack

      Reply

      Wow when exactly did Drummond post a stat line 2 points and fouled out.  He scored 19 and had 10 rebounds last night and did foul out.  But the second game he played like a minute only by design had 2 points and no he did not fouled out.  L wanted to give Krastov a shot at playing time.  Call it for what it is.  Don’t make **** up.

      • Oct 15, 201210:53 am
        by rick77

        Reply

        If you read it dully then you’ll understand that I am saying that when he does have a stat line similar to that then don’t get all huffy puffy about as if it can’t happen. Listen. I don’t have to make shit up when all I have to do is read derogatory statements about one player vs another. It baffles me when people fail to mention the $hit that was going around here and throw blame on players. Let the coach coach and the players play. If Charlie V does not perform this year I will be the first in line to say “he needs to go”. I’m saying temper expectations for unproven players versus a proven player. If proven player is getting it then that means unproven player is learning while on the job.  So don’t tell me I am making stuff up when in fact it was a preseason game that oh yeah we lost. Like I said be happy when the stat line is unfavorable as he is still learning.

  • Oct 14, 20126:26 pm
    by James Jones

    Reply

    I’m not sure why everyone is so surprised by Stuckey’s shooting performance.  He’s never been a prolific outside shooter, he’s like a poor mans Jerry Stackhouse, who was never a good outside shooter either.
    It’s my biggest complaint about Stuckey’s game and why I’ve been dying for us to ether get a good outside shooting SF or trade up for a good SG and move Stuck to another team or to the 6th man role.  TP and Daye are never going to be good outside shooters.
    Like you said if this team is going to build around Drummond and Monroe we need players that consistently hit an open 18+ ft jumper at the other 3 positions to spread the floor for them.

  • Oct 15, 20125:29 am
    by koz

    Reply

    To Patrick: Maybe you should get payed for working on your site here, then perhaps you wouldn’t be so chippy responding to what seems to be reasonable criticism by the so called “troller”  “Bugsygod” It also seems clear that Milicic never had the elite athleticism that Drummond appears to possess which would put him at least in my mind as better able to avoid the bust scenario layed out by Feldman.

    • Oct 15, 20129:09 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      @koz:

      “Maybe you should get payed for working on your site here”

      I’m not complaining. I have a job. This is a hobby. I do it for fun. My point was just that as someone who cares about what I write and what is written here, I will defend it. So don’t complain if you post a criticism and I respond with a criticism of your criticism. I have no problem rejecting weak arguments like I’m Andre Drummond if you’re coming into my lane.

      I could get paid a million dollars a post here and I’d still react the same way if I feel someone is framing their argument wrong, if their criticism is taking something out of context or if they are just generally unpleasant.

      “what seems to be reasonable criticism by the so called “troller”  “Bugsygod””

      I didn’t say he’s a ‘troller.’ Most of his comments aren’t. His off-topic post bringing up a post from months ago, framing the subject of that post out of context and posting it in this game recap thread? That’s trolling. That’s purposely posting something off-topic to get a reaction. Unless you agree with him that two preseason games against average or slightly below teams is enough to say that Drummond is definitely destined to be a great player? Personally, I’m excited by his performance. I think bugsygod’s conclusion that Drummond will definitely not be a bust is a little premature though.

      “It also seems clear that Milicic never had the elite athleticism that Drummond appears to possess which would put him at least in my mind as better able to avoid the bust scenario layed out by Feldman.”

      Milicic went second overall in one of the greatest drafts in NBA history. Drummond went No. 9 in what consensus opinion seems to be was a pretty average draft. Elite athleticism or no, I think people thought of Milicic’s upside more highly than Drummond’s. Will Robinson, the Detroit legend and one of the most respected scouts/coaches in basketball history, compared a 19-year-old Milicic to Wilt Chamberlain. Wilt Chamberlain!

      And regardless, my point was not a comparison of the two. It was simply pointing out that the Pistons have had raw, highly regarded upside prospects in the past who haven’t developed. So to say that Drummond definitely got to the right organization who knows what it’s doing developing raw prospects, I disagree with that. The Pistons have had success with some young players, no success with others. It’s all about Drummond, really. Most any organization (with the exception of a few really dysfunctional ones) would put the time and resources into helping a player like Drummond succeed. At the end of the day, Drummond’s success in Detroit will be about how motivated he is, how hard he works, to realize his potential.

       

      • Oct 15, 20121:37 pm
        by Keith

        Reply

        I have to agree with your assessment of the Pistons and Drummond. While it would be great to look at those two games and predict stardom (or at least no chance of busting) for Drummond, it’s at least a year premature. 
         
        You can do a quick breakdown of Piston first rounders just to see how inconsistent to bad we’ve been. Looking at raw players with upside, Rodney White, Darko, and Daye have all failed spectacularly to develop. And if we want to get into it, it’s difficult to say we’ve done a good job of developing Knight, who was often asked to play off the ball alongside non PG Rodney Stuckey. From a pure developmental standpoint, Stuckey never became the player he was drafted to be. He is a pure slashing SG, not a passer, defender, or Chauncey’s heir apparent. He’s still a solid player, but never developed beyond the combo guard he came out as.
         
        The only players that the Pistons tend to hit on with solid success are player with considerable college experience (Tayshaun, Maxiell, Afflalo, Monroe) or professional international experience (Delfion, Jerebko). So historically, the team has very little track record of success with developing anyone. Our entire last decade of prominence and the championship were built on already developed players (FAs – including Ben/Rip, whom we did not draft – and Tay). Every time the Pistons have been forced to rely on development, we’ve seen significant drops in win totals. There’s no way I see us doing what OKC did with Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka (Durant was going to be great anyway, the other all needed specific nurturing and environment).
         
        Drummond still can be great. I don’t think the team actively sabotages young guys, but it does feel like they don’t create roles that players can fill. They put a player where they can play, if they can play, but simply don’t know what to do with players that are still working on creating their own identity. We force players then to sit (Darko, White) and learn nothing, or throw them into roles we need, even if they don’t fit what the player can/should do (Stuckey, Knight). Part of this may be the coaching carousel for years, part of it may be a real lack of identity and vision from the front office. But I feel if Drummond does turn out great, it will have a lot more to do with him and his own mentality than anything the team to nurture him.

      • Oct 15, 20122:05 pm
        by bugsygod

        Reply

        I DO NOT THINK DRUMMOND WILL BE A BUST.  Based on his high school/aau performances.  Based on his size and athletic ability.  Based on his SHOWN work ethic with the pistons(not rumors he doesnt work hard).  Based on his Summer League play again showing his talents in matching up with differenct yound players.  Based on what every coach and player has said about Drummond, that he works hard, listens and has been completely focused.  Oh and yes based on 2 preseason games.

      • Oct 15, 20127:26 pm
        by James Jones

        Reply

        I’m not sure about all the other stuff you had going on in your post but this one comment caught my attention.
         
        “Milicic went second overall in one of the greatest drafts in NBA history. Drummond went No. 9 in what consensus opinion seems to be was a pretty average draft. Elite athleticism or no, I think people thought of Milicic’s upside more highly than Drummond’s.”
         
        In just 3 summer league games and 3 preseason games Drummond already looks twice as good as Dorko did.  I’m not saying Drummond is going to be a stud because of this, but I was skeptical of Darko after watching him struggle with simple fundamentals and looking lost every time his number was called.  While Drummond’s fundamentals need some serious work, he doesn’t look lost when he’s on the floor and from game to game you can see some progression on mistakes that were made in previous games.  For those two reasons alone I think Dummand has a far better chance at becoming a contributer then Dorko ever did.

        • Oct 15, 20129:21 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          I’m talking about pre-draft. What Drummond or Milicic did after they were drafted is irrelevant to this discussion. As draft prospects, I think Milicic’s upside was considered every bit as high, if not higher, than Drummond’s, and the fact that Milicic was picked at No. 3 while Drummond slid seems to back that up.

          We can obviously use the benefit of hindsight to look back and say that Milicic sucked and the team certainly should’ve done more homework, but at the time he was picked, he was considered a can’t-miss star by many respected basketball people. 

  • Oct 15, 20125:30 am
    by koz

    Reply

    Payed, paid, whatever.

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