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Andre Drummond, darkhorse Rookie of the Year candidate

After the Pistons drafted Andre Drummond, some thought it could take as long as five years for Drummond to develop into an impact player. Certainly no one thought he’d be a Rookie of the Year candidate. But, after one strong preseason, Ben Golliver of Sports Illustrated has him in the mix:

The Overlooked Long Shot

Andre Drummond — Detroit Pistons – Las Vegas Odds:30/1

6-foot-10, 270 pounds; age 19

Las Vegas Summer League Stats: 7.4 points, 5.4 rebounds, 2.0 blocks, 1.2 steals in 24.2 minutes per game in five games

Preseason Stats: 9.8 points, 5.8 rebounds, 1.5 blocks in 17.5 minutes per game in six games

Drummond produced plenty of reasons for doubt after his one season at UConn — his free-throw shooting, foul trouble and questions about his love of the game generally occupying the top spots on that list — but there’s no good reason for Las Vegas to have treated him so harshly in its early odds. Drummond is unrefined, to be sure, but blessed physically, too. So blessed that his resume already boasts a 19-point, 10-rebound effort against Milwaukee and excellent per-minute production for a big man, considering that he’s only been used off the bench and hasn’t yet played more than 25 minutes in a game. Foul trouble, playing time and the likelihood that Davis will put up better apples-to-apples numbers combine to put Drummond on the outside of this race looking in. But the early returns suggest that he’s the most undervalued player in this class.

The Pistons are still being cautious with Drummond, but it’s worth stating again — what he’s done this preseason has been remarkable. He’s already clearly the second best big man on his roster, and I don’t think even the biggest cheerleaders of the Pistons selecting him in the draft expected him to come along that quickly.

56 Comments

  • Oct 29, 20128:59 am
    by Ray

    Reply

    Sometimes I feel like the only Pistons fan that not surprised Drummond is this good already, watch this high school highlight he has a really solid face the basketball…he is comfortable with his game…physically he is gifted he doesn’t move like 6’11 270 …. At the end of the day my prediction for drummond rookie year was 12ppg 8rebs 2blk …. And that was before he did it in the preseason …. Because Dwight Howard did it on a worst team…and Drummond too has more ball skill than Dwight did at the same age…

    • Oct 29, 20129:32 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      “Drummond too has more ball skill than Dwight did at the same age”

      No he doesn’t. Go back and watch tape of a young Dwight. Dwight was way, way more advanced defensively when he entered the league. And that’s not a knock on Drummond. Dwight was a once in a generation type of talent.

      • Oct 29, 20129:52 am
        by ray

        Reply

        Ball-Skills – in Dribbling, passing, a better shooting touch”…. and you can all that defensive instinct that Dwight had, but his nmbers look just like Drummonds did… in the summer league and in the pre-season 

        thats my point Patrick Drummond is also a once every 10 years type player…. coming out of highschool Drummond was being talked about as the number 1 pick for almost 2 years! …

         

        • Oct 29, 201210:18 am
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          Then why wasn’t he the No. 1 pick? The fact is, he was underwhelming at UConn. He’s had a good preseason, but preseason performances can be misleading. Like I said in other posts, I’m excited about Drummond’s potential. But I’m going to hold off on anointing him as a future star, let alone someone in Dwight’s company, until he’s a productive member of the regular season rotation.

          • Oct 29, 201211:06 am
            by bugsygod

            Agree with ray here, if you look at purely skills at what Drummond can do now vs. dwight he does have more skills!   NOT saying he is better than dwight or will be as good as dwight.  But looking at his step back shot, bankers, jumper, these are all shots dwight does NOT have in his game.  He is an incredible defensive player and beast around the basket, BUT that is how other teams play him…just for dunks and some jump hooks.  This has been dwights critisms for years, no low post game.  He worked with hakeem cpl years ago, but do we really see improvement in the down low game??  Now drummond has a looongg way to go to develop the basket skills on a consistent level, but you can see the skills.
            *
            i know you dislike comparisons etc, but who else can we compare this athletic beast too?  the only 2 players in the league with similiar athletic gifts are mcgee and howard at that size.  Finallly– Drummond was considered top 1or2 pick in the draft BEFORE he went to uconn.  Uconn was horribly dysfunctional last year and i think that had a great affect on drummond.  He went there as a 17yr old kid!  No coach most of the year, no consitent guard play and throw the kid in the fire.   Can we say that if Drummond competes for ROY that Uconn harmed him more than helped?  That is beginning to be the picture being painted.

          • Oct 29, 201211:25 am
            by Patrick Hayes

            “Agree with ray here, if you look at purely skills at what Drummond can do now vs. dwight he does have more skills!”

            How so? I’m serious. They’re both big and extremely athletic. How does Drummond have more skills? If Drummond was only a rotation player on a mediocre UConn team, are you saying that Howard wouldn’t have even got off the bench for that team, because Drummond has more ‘skills?’

            “But looking at his step back shot, bankers, jumper, these are all shots dwight does NOT have in his game.”

            Are you sure Drummond has them? I mean, the only offense we saw out of him in preseason was dunks and finishing around the basket, just like Dwight. What makes you convinced that Drummond has this array of moves at the NBA level? We just haven’t seen it yet. Also, you’re selling Dwight short on offense. He does a lot more than just dunk/finish.

            “i know you dislike comparisons etc, but who else can we compare this athletic beast too?”

            I’m fine comparing Drummond and Howard if we’re just talking about a relationship to huge size and athleticism of the two. Comparing their skill level is insane though. They’re not even close right now. Dwight was more polished as a rookie and he’s light years ahead right now as a NBA veteran.

            “Can we say that if Drummond competes for ROY that Uconn harmed him more than helped?”

            Sure, it’s definitely a possibility that UConn didn’t do anything to develop him. But why do you discount the possibility that maybe Drummond didn’t work that hard at UConn, then when it got closer to the draft and then over this past summer, he started working harder? I mean, there’s evidence of this. He didn’t arrive at UConn in good shape and he actually lost weight after he declared for the draft. Isn’t it possible that Drummond just didn’t put much effort in at UConn? Or that he never wanted to play college basketball, he just did it for a year because he had to do something while he got to the minimum age for the NBA Draft? I’m totally fine with that, by the way. It’s stupid that NBA-ready kids have to go to college for a year. But I think that’s the far more likely scenario than UConn harmed his development in some way. Drummond’s not dumb. He knew he was a lottery pick, I’m sure he knew he was going pro after a year and maybe he just wasn’t that into playing for UConn.

          • Oct 29, 201211:46 am
            by bugsygod

            I have never seen dwight with step back or just regular jumper in his 8yrs in the league..period.  I have seen this in college, summer league and preseason from drummond.  Just look at there games for just a minute dwight is all dunks and jump hooks.  Drummond you can clearly see has some other skills.  Again the biggest critism of dwight is lack of skills after 8yrs in the league
            *
            When you say dwight is more polished, YES on the defensive end and on an experience level.  If Drummond had of came straight from high school like dwight he would have been a top 2 pick and not had as many concerns.  He would be putting up same numbers as dwight as a rook and wouldnt have so much “worry” about drummond. 
            *
            i dont agree that drummond just said that “im a lottery pick no need to work hard at uconn”.  Not sure how much you watch interview or pre draft specials.  But drummond has been profiled alot from predraft to now.  In EVERY one of these he seems to be a kid that cares and does the right things.  Every one screams about the kids great character.  Now look at the Uconn situation.  Head coach in an out because of discipline issues since retired, team cannot play in tournmanent this year because of poor academic performance overall, two shoot first & second guards there last year, NO senior leadership as kemba left.  That progam was in total dissaray.  To have a 17yr old kid go there, after they just won the championship, dont you think there was going to be “some” dissapointment no matter what he did, if they didnt win back to back titles?  Look at the hit lamb took, he was projected top ten pick at the beginning of the year, then drops out of the lottery! **I do agree that he just went to uconn because he had too***  But dont agree he thought “i just wont try”.  HE WAS SEVENTEEN! Not all 17yrs old mature the same.

    • Oct 29, 201211:17 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Good for you that you’re not surprised? Maybe? Most of us recognized that he really wasn’t very good all last year. I certainly hope that he carries his strong preseason over into the regular season. And at this point, I wouldn’t be particularly surprised. But typically dominating over weak high school competition and then struggling against stronger college competition doesn’t bode well for one about to face the toughest competition available, NBA.

  • Oct 29, 20129:16 am
    by Al

    Reply

    @Patrick, I get this is about grooming Drummond but after a thought more about it this really should be about Monroe moving into a more natural NBA PF(4) spot and having a natural center right? So, if we have two legitimate bigs now why is Maxiell even still and option as a starting PF?? Shouldnt have Frank been focusing on Dre vs Slava for the 5 spot in preseason and Max vs Charlie/Daye for backup PF time? Just a thought. Showcasing or starting Max for a trade later when he is a backup at best is doing what for our youth movement again??

    • Oct 29, 20129:37 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      From the comments Dumars made here, it seems that the Pistons are as surprised by Drummond’s readiness as fans are. So basically, how I’m interpreting that, is they are extremely pleased he seems more ready to contribute as a rotation player than they thought he’d be, but that’s not changing their original plan with him yet. It seems that they’re at least open to the possibility of making Drummond their primary center in the near future, but they want to see how he performs in the regular season first. Let’s face it, preseason competition is different. A couple preseasons ago, Austin Daye looked like he’d be Detroit’s best player and Greg Monroe looked like he’d be awful. Then the regular season started and those preseason results suddenly got turned upside down. Daye quickly fell out of the rotation and Monroe gained playing time, then never gave it back.

      As a fan, I absolutely want to see him play. But I also understand that the organization has prudent reasons for being cautious about it. He’ll be in the rotation when the season opens, and if he shows he can handle that as well as he handled preseason, his role will only grow. 

      • Oct 29, 20129:42 am
        by sebastian

        Reply

        Caution will not sell tickets, though.

        • Oct 29, 20129:48 am
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          Selling tickets at the Palace is MC Hammer’s job these days.

          • Oct 29, 20128:01 pm
            by MNM

            “like”.

          • Oct 29, 201210:37 pm
            by gmehl

            It’s just Hammer now for crying out loud :-)

        • Oct 29, 201211:20 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          the hope of watching Drummond play will sell tickets if he continues to perform well even in a limited role

          but quite frankly, why should you or i give a rat’s fuzzy ass about ticket sales? i’m a pistons fan. i root for the pistons to do well. i don’t care one bit about how much money gores is or isn’t making off the team. 

          • Oct 29, 20124:41 pm
            by sebastian

            Yo tarsier, I don’t care about Gores’ bottom line, either, but winning games is directly linked to ticket sales.
            When OUR Pistons were in the top 5 in attendance, WE were also going to ECF every year.
            There is a correlation, my man.

          • Oct 29, 20126:06 pm
            by tarsier

            True but the causation is in the other direction. Higher ticket sales will never cause an increase in team performance.

  • Oct 29, 201210:07 am
    by Keith

    Reply

    I just wanted to throw this out, because I feel it is an easily overlooked gripe I’ve had about the Pistons under Dumars. Specifically their lack of player development.
     
    Q: His approach seems to be coach to the top end, to the people already familiar with the system, and make every else catch up, make them sink or swim.  Are they sponging it?  Are they accelerating at the right pace?
    A: “I think you have to coach like that.  I think you have to set the bar of expectations of not only how you play, but how well and how quickly you learn the system.  We don’t have a lot of time to keep going over things until somebody finally gets it.  It’s up to them to get up to speed, come in early, stay late, do whatever you’ve got to do, to get up to speed with what we’re doing.”
     
    I get setting the bar and requiring players to meet your expectations before they play. But that’s also a great way to let players fall behind and through the cracks. The fact is, not everyone started far enough ahead to pick things up right away. Rookies need more coaching, but it sounds like Frank would rather work with the vets. That’s completely counterproductive. What is the point of being a coach if the only people you want to teach are the people who already know what you are teaching. That’s an effort in stagnation, in holding the line regardless of how unproductive that line has been.
     
    There was a great article that came out during the Finals this year. It wasn’t about Lebron, Durant, Wade, or Westbrook. It was about Eric Maynor, the Thunder backup PG who had blown out his knee early in the season and missed the whole year. This was a player who was never going to play in the finals, and who even at his best was only a solid backup. And yet, on an off-day for practices, here were 3 assistant coaches all in a gym with just Maynor working on his conditioning and physical therapy. The Thunder, not so coincidentally, have developed very nearly every player they’ve drafted. They turned the very raw and non-native english speaking Ibaka into runner up for DPOY. They turned the incredibly raw and out of control Westbrook into one of the top 10 players in the league. They said from day one, they were committed to their players – to their development on the court and their life off it. That makes a tremendous difference. It’s also something Detroit could never manage. They have always been committed to the top down approach – only giving coaching and time to those that don’t need a lot of it. Drummond may force our hand anyway, but still, I have to wonder. Would there be anywhere near the doubt about Drummond if he had been drafted by OKC (or San Antonio) if they had found a way to grab the 9th pick?

    • Oct 29, 201210:42 am
      by oats

      Reply

      I think you may be misreading that quote. He isn’t saying that the coaches aren’t available to work with young guys, at least I seriously hope not. I think they are talking about what happens during full team activities, that time is spent working on getting the team ready for games. I’d like to believe that the coaches are available to put in extra time with the players that want that extra time. Dumars says, “come in early, stay late, do whatever you’ve got to do, to get up to speed with what we’re doing.” I’m betting the coaches are there for that. Your specific example of Maynor would be a player doing whatever he’s got to do to get up to speed. Players that need extra attention should put in extra time, that’s the quote. I don’t see why that is a problem.
       
      I’d say if Drummond ended up in SA or OKC there would be less apprehension about him, but most of the talk about him being risky started well before the draft. That stuff still would carry over to some extent. Detroit flopping so badly on Darko does increase it, but the conversation would still be there.

      • Oct 29, 201211:04 am
        by Keith

        Reply

        I think it can be read either way. But I don’t think I need much evidence to point out how well OKC/San Antonio have done developing and integrating young players, while we have not. Moreso that the specific examples are the culture. Under Dumars we have consistently had a “win now regardless of young players” philosophy. Even now we are likely to see Prince and Maxiell both start and play heavy minutes. Before at least you could justify that the young players did not give us a better chance to win, even if that thinking is shortsighted. Now, we are actively giving ourselves a worse chance to win now AND in the future by refusing to focus on development.

    • Oct 29, 201210:46 am
      by bugsygod

      Reply

      what about cole aldrich lottery pick few yrs ago?  never developed.  how bout jeff green, traded in his prime?  rodrique beabous? reggie jackson back pg? these are all thunder 1st drft picks the last few years.  Every organization has success and failures and organizations play  HUGE role in developing players.  BUT alot of it has to do with the player and handling the nba.

      • Oct 29, 201211:13 am
        by Keith

        Reply

        Aldrich was set to be their backup C (historically that’s on the good end of his draft position) before being traded. Jeff Green was traded because he didn’t fit the team anymore – he was not a true big and in the way of Ibaka’s minutes. Beabouis was traded on draft night, but Mullens (who they got in the trade) is now a starter in Charlotte (he can score at a high level, but never became the defender they wanted). Reggie Jackson is still in line to become the backup PG as Maynor is in his last year. 
         
        If we are going to compare apples to apples, their “misses” are immensely better than ours, just like their big wins. Even their biggest flops (probably Mullens) are NBA players. Who is the last project that the Pistons drafted that actually developed?

        • Oct 29, 201212:13 pm
          by bugsygod

          Reply

          who is the last piston project the team developed….Greg Monroe.  There was a reason he went 8th in draft, because he was considered a project, soft, permiter oriented big man that doesnt play hard.  Now he’s a budding all star.  This year …Andre Drummond, considered immature, doesnt go hard, doesnt seem to want to be great, now he is sleeper ROY.  Is that not develpment? 
          Aldrich was a bust and has not recvd ANY minutes, he’s set to be cut by the rockets.  So how come Mullens didnt develop in OKC?  AGAIN everyone as you said has ”misses”.  Our only 2 guys who are flops in your eyes are cleaves and r. white as they are not in league not nba players.  Darko seems to get a new contract every year, so i would call him a nba player.  Presti has been running that team for about 6yrs now, NO CHAMPIONSHIPS.  In dumars first 4yrs..CHAMPIONSHIP.  So lets give presti another 5yrs to see if he gets them a championship, or with the harden trade how far back did they take a step? 

          • Oct 29, 20121:05 pm
            by Keith

            Monroe was the exact opposite of a project. He was considered highly skilled, just underathletic. Huge huge difference there. Every single rookie ever is a project by your standards, I am specifically talking about raw players with limited skills but high potential. Monroe never fit that category.
             
            Aldrich was a bust why? Because he didn’t get minutes on a contender? Like I said, he was set to be the backup C this year until the Harden trade. He’s a good per minute guy when he plays. As for Mullens, he DID develop with the Thunder, mostly on their D-League team (which is individually owned and runs the same system as the Thunder). He didn’t play for their NBA team because he doesn’t play hard on defense. He still went from end of bench filler to starter with Charlotte because he had actually developed a strong offensive game.
             
            Also, don’t confuse development with drafting prowess. Joe D has been a strong drafter. He has often found role players late and quality depth in the second round. But as a franchise and team since he’s been here, we’ve seen very little development out of players that were unrefined. Basically, Joe is great at finding players in the draft that already have viable skillsets, but rarely have we managed to get more out of any player than what they showed right off the bat. Austin Daye would be the most glaring example at the moment, as he hasn’t gotten better at anything, and in fact has flamed out completely despite a ton of talent. Sure, each individual has to needs to take credit for their own failures, but that shouldn’t skew that the best run organizations make their players into something, while the poorer run organizations just hope for their players to get it themselves.

  • Oct 29, 201210:20 am
    by Al

    Reply

    Yep, that sounds about right! Im sure they are not blind to the fact Drummond has been a delightful surprise to the Pistons and many others as well. I cant wait to see him with I guess a younger SF(3) out there with Monroe, Stuckey and Knight. Then we will have a glimpse at the future of the Pistons and where their heading.

  • Oct 29, 201210:29 am
    by Al

    Reply

    Also, am I the only one that feels like Middleton should be in the mix for minutes, Ive liked what i seen from him since preseasonc and he looks like he is NBA ready with more playing time of course. Man if we only didnt have a roster full of……

    • Oct 29, 201211:15 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I’ve actually been more impressed with him than I have English based on their preseason performances. If Maggette is healthy, though, I doubt either guy plays that much this season.

      • Oct 29, 201212:02 pm
        by bugsygod

        Reply

        Glad we didnt cut him after summer league as you suggested so ben could come back.  Now we see why dumars took him before english in the draft.   English more mature and ready to go, middleton just 20.

        • Oct 29, 201212:33 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          Where did I write the Pistons should cut Middleton to bring back Wallace?

          I certainly wrote several times that, if the Pistons were going to bring back Wallace — and if you go back to Dumars’ comments after last spring, it very much looked like they would if Wallace wanted to come back — the needed to get a roster spot. Middleton didn’t have a contract at the time, he didn’t have a good summer league and getting rid of him wouldn’t have costed the organization a thing whereas creating a roster spot by waiving someone with a guaranteed contract would cost money. So no, I didn’t suggest the Pistons should cut Middleton. I (correctly) suggested that if they were going to find a roster spot for Wallace, Middleton was the most likely candidate to go at the time if they didn’t make a trade. Have you ever considered that maybe it’s your comprehension of what’s written that is the problem? I mean, it’s not just what I write. You seem to interpret other people’s comments here way out of context too. Maybe something for you to consider.

          • Oct 29, 20121:08 pm
            by bugsygod

            LOL, you know patrick it would be nice just once, JUST ONCE, for you or dan to admit a mistake, admit you were wrong.  You clearly stated that the guy to get rid of should be middleton so Ben could be brought back.  This was not just from dumars.  You would love to have Ben to provide a mentor to andre, etc.  YOU SAID THAT!!  You thought middleton sucked and openly questioned why he was taken ahead of english.  YOU SAID THAT!!  
            *
            reason i may differences with others or misconstrue there statements, is because alot of ppl on dont know what there talking bout! “oh we got FA money next year lets get dwight and cp3″, “oh we should trade daye, cv and max for rudy gay”, “i hate cv we should just cut him now”, “we should trade our pick this year w/ daye and cv for no.1 pick and get A. Davis”, “Dumars has NEVER made a good pick”, “This ownership seems unwilling to spend on the team”, “lets trade for al jefferson now, then he can start until drummond is ready”, “Drummond will probably be a bust”.   So if i bring clear rational arguments to the site, i dont really see any outrageous things i have said.  Hell you got ppl thinking we dont have a 1st rd draft pick next year.  WE DO, UNLESS we make the playoffs.  I will take that trade off anyday!!

          • Oct 29, 20121:26 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            “LOL, you know patrick it would be nice just once, JUST ONCE, for you or dan to admit a mistake, admit you were wrong.”

            It would be nice if you never commented again or your IQ suddenly jumped a few dozen points, but we’re both probably just going to have to settle for being unsatisfied, aren’t we?

            “You clearly stated that the guy to get rid of should be middleton so Ben could be brought back.”

            Nope. I didn’t. I explained what I stated. If they were interested in bringing Wallace back, Middleton, based on his lack of a contract and sub-par summer league, was the likely one to go. But that wasn’t the only scenario I discussed, was it? I also said the Pistons could also swing a trade or eat guaranteed money to open a spot for Wallace so they wouldn’t have to cut a player they just drafted. I just said it was far less likely that they’d explore either of the latter two options.

            “You would love to have Ben to provide a mentor to andre, etc.  YOU SAID THAT!!” 

            Well, not exactly. I wanted them to bring Wallace back because he’d still be a solid defensive player/rotation big on this team. I don’t particularly buy into the ‘mentor’ talk. This isn’t kindergarten. These are professionals.

            “You thought middleton sucked and openly questioned why he was taken ahead of english.  YOU SAID THAT!!”

            I did? Oh, right. I didn’t. Sometimes I forget that you don’t actually read what’s written before ranting. I did say that Middleton wasn’t a good pick. I did question why the Pistons took him over Doron Lamb or Kyle O’Quinn or Will Barton. I did point out that Ford, DraftExpress, etc. all had Middleton rated significantly lower on their draft boards. I never once said they should’ve take English at that spot instead of Middleton.

            “alot of ppl on dont know what there talking bout!”

            You are exhibit A.

            “ “oh we got FA money next year lets get dwight and cp3?, “oh we should trade daye, cv and max for rudy gay”, “i hate cv we should just cut him now”, “we should trade our pick this year w/ daye and cv for no.1 pick and get A. Davis”, “Dumars has NEVER made a good pick””

            Just so you know, I read every comment posted on this site and no one has every posted anything remotely along the lines of what you just said.

            “So if i bring clear rational arguments to the site, i dont really see any outrageous things i have said.”

            But you don’t. Your arguments are unclear, poorly worded and you frequently misinterpret what other people say. It’s not an issue with just the writers on the site, either. You frequently misinterpret what other commenters say. You are the problem! You have to own your role in this!

            “Hell you got ppl thinking we dont have a 1st rd draft pick next year.”

            How, exactly, do I have people thinking this? Is it the multiple posts I’ve written that state the Pistons keep their draft pick this year if they don’t finish in the lottery? Now you are just making no sense, even by your own standards of never making much sense. 

  • Oct 29, 201210:58 am
    by bugsygod

    Reply

    “The biggest Pistons cheerleaders”???  shouldnt this be every piston fan –> Big cheerleaders??  I guess i still dont know if this is a Pistons fan site or what.  It seems they make improvement but still are crushed here.  They develop a top ten big man in monroe.. pistons suck cant develop players(daye).  Pistons consistenly get steals in 2nd rd singler, jerbko, english, amir, delfino, okur…but dumars sucks at drafting, pistons cant develp players dont trust drummond.  Is the team better than it was last year? Yes it seems the players have improved internally and their has been an increase in talent.  Drummond AVG 10,7,3blks last year in  “dissapointing” season with the “buffonery” uconn team last year.  No coach, no leadership and jealousy of the top recruit new guy, yes he struggled, BUT still avg 10-7-3.  If he avg’s that for the Pistons this year he will finish top 3 rookie of the year!  So you can call me a cheerleader of the team and players and hope to see winning.  I call it like i see it, Drummond looks like a beast AND PLAYS LIKE ONE!  Out of all the big man we have been after the last few years, biyombo, tristan thomspon, valcuinaus, kanter, henson, leonard, etc.  I believe we got the BEST talent and player out that crew.  soooo glad this guy dropped to us!  Glad he is not gonna be a bust like Dan Feldman predicted he would be when we drafted him.  waiting for df to admit the mistake.  Prolly wont be till he is in the all star game.  even that probably wont be enough   

    • Oct 29, 201211:12 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      “shouldnt this be every piston fan –> Big cheerleaders?”

      Every fan is, to an extent. However, every fan shouldn’t turn a blind eye when the organization they cheer for does things that don’t make sense. With the Drummond pick, it made sense to take him at that spot. But in this particular post, I just meant there were fans who really loved the pick and fans (if you check Detroit Bad Boys, for example) who were not happy with it.

      “I guess i still dont know if this is a Pistons fan site or what.”

      It’s a Pistons news site. Are we fans of the team? Certainly. But we also make efforts to be somewhat objective in the analysis we provide. It would be annoying to read posts from us that just say, “Everything the Pistons do is awesome and we love them.” We’ll never be fully objective because, as I said, we are fans too. But we definitely make an attempt to look at all of the good and bad of the organization.

      “Glad he is not gonna be a bust like Dan Feldman predicted he would be when we drafted him.  waiting for df to admit the mistake.” 

      You continue to make yourself into a caricature that no reasonable person could possibly take seriously when you post stuff like this. I don’t care if you keep posting it, it’s a free country. I just want you to know that no one reads what you have to say with any sort of seriousness. 

      • Oct 29, 201211:58 am
        by bugsygod

        Reply

        I critizie the team and dumb deals they make.  cv, ben, trade billups and not hamilton, (i wont say darko, because EVERYONE would have taken him 2nd)etc.  BUT you call me a homer like i have rose colored glasses on.  I look at the team as what it is, contending for 8th playoff spot, some good young talent, favorable cap next summer, ownership that is spending $$, Do you see something differenet?  poor managment? not enough talent to win a championship? ownership that is cheap? You say im going to wait for Drummond regular season to show me…DUH!!  WHO IS NOT WAITING ON THAT??  However we all see the talent, we all see and hear him working hard.  We all hear the great character traits he has.  So a super talented kid, that works hard, has great character and so far has been a joy to coach(perL.frank). 
        But you are looking at this objectively???  I dont know what bias you have against the pistons, but is is pretty obvious as i have not been the only one to say the same things.  

        • Oct 29, 20121:01 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          “I critizie the team and dumb deals they make.  cv, ben, trade billups and not hamilton, (i wont say darko, because EVERYONE would have taken him 2nd)etc.  BUT you call me a homer like i have rose colored glasses on.”

          You realize you started this thread, right? You realize you responded to an innocuous line that I had in my post and are now acting like it was somehow directed at you, right? I wrote a line acknowledging there was a wide range of opinions among Pistons fans on the team taking Drummond by saying that even the biggest supporters of that pick probably weren’t projecting he’d be in the rookie of the year conversation and you interpreted that in some completely weird way. That’s how this whole conversation started. Just wanted to remind you of that.

          “You say im going to wait for Drummond regular season to show me…DUH!!  WHO IS NOT WAITING ON THAT?”

          You said this in one of your rants above: “Just look at there games for just a minute dwight is all dunks and jump hooks.  Drummond you can clearly see has some other skills.”

          So I would say that yes, you are basing a lot of your projections on Drummond for this season on summer league and preseason. I’m saying I think it’s premature to draw the types of conclusions you are. Hitting a step-back in summer league against Ron Artest’s fat brother or whoever plays on some of these summer league rosters is not enough evidence for me to say that someone has a NBA-caliber step-back.

          “However we all see the talent, we all see and hear him working hard.  We all hear the great character traits he has.”

          I see ‘we all’ must’ve been reading Pistons.com a lot then.

          “But you are looking at this objectively?”

          Let me boil down the thousands of words I’ve written about Drummond: 1. He’s insanely talented and exciting to watch; 2. He’s shown that he’s earned a significant role on this team once the regular season opens; 3. I would like to see him play more minutes against starting-caliber competition before I conclusively say he’s ready to be a starter or big minutes player. Based on preseason, he’s on the right track. But based on preseason two years ago, Austin Daye looked like he’d be a 20 point per game scorer and Greg Monroe looked like he was going to suck. So I tend not to get to overly excited or pessimistic about preseason.

          I don’t know, I’d say that’s a pretty objective take on the situation. You’re free to disagree though.

          “I dont know what bias you have against the pistons, but is is pretty obvious as i have not been the only one to say the same things.”

          You’re entitled to your opinion, I guess. I’m opinionated, and I don’t hide from that. But as far as having some sort of agenda against a team I spend a lot of my free time watching and writing about? Nah. Not so much. Accusing people of being biased or having an agenda is the type of thing that people who wear tinfoil hats and look for conspiracy theories in everything and lack critical thinking skills do. Plenty of people can disagree with opinions on here without resorting to “OMG you’re so biased!” types of responses. You’re one of the few who can’t engage in reasonable dialogue.

          • Oct 29, 20121:31 pm
            by bugsygod

            You have called me a homer thur many diffeent posts, didnt think this one was directed at me AT ALL.  You always say you are giving “objective” opinions.  arent we all?  I said Drummond would not be a bust, Dan feldman said “if i have to guess i would say he will be a bust” FACT!
            *
            Yes im basing my thoughts on his college, summer league and presesaon.  what else is there???  In college he avg. 10-7-3, summer league showed he was not afraid of contact, willing to run, block shots and finish strong, preseason he has provided energy, hustle, strong around the rim, rim protection, so yes he has looked good in what ANYONE has seen of him.  not saying he has an nba step back game now, Thee point is he has SHOWN this early in his career, Dwight has NEVER shown that.  This is why we have “projections”!  He has skills that project differently than dwights on offense.  Cousins has more offensive nba skills RIGHT NOW than Dwight, but no one is saying he is the better player.  everyplayer has strenght and weaknesses. (rants lol, cant they just be posts?)

            yes Patrick, preseaon, summer league, practices ALL count!  daye looked good and monroe didnt.  So what do we follow then??  Are you suggesting to just ignore preseaon?  Look away, look away, you really dont see that man dunking, blocking shots or hustling.  that is just a figment of your imagination.  smh.  We HAVE to look at these things and draw conclusions.  Drummond looks good and looks ready to contribute and be a part of the rotation.  In monroes case what everyone said before the draft, unathletic, etc was coming true in summer/preseason games.  Hes been grade to overcome these and now strive.  Daye was considered a very good shooter and showed that in summer/preseason, it has been dissapointing this has not translated.  Drummond they said didnt have motor or was immature, he has been neither!
            *
            Ummm sorry, but there is more than pistons.com.  He has been on nba tv numerouse times, with his family, predraft combine, day of draft behind the scenes, etc.   In those instances he seems poised, mature and great character.  Dan didnt know if this was real or fake as he reported the day after the draft with the “sunglasses” comment.  Well dumars, frank and all the players have said the same thing.  When does this become the truth???  Our eyes see it, our ears hear it and the stats show it.
            *
            CANT ENGAGE IN REASONABLE DIALOGUE???  i have been called sooo many names on this site for just trying to have a dialogue on the pistons.  that was a LOL statement you just made there.  I have never called you a name, never questioned your intelligence or integrity. BUt you have questioned all of the above about me.  BUT i cant have a reasonable dialogue??? 
            *
            I think you have some pretty thin skin when it comes to your blog site here, you are offeneded that anyone questions what you write and if they disagree they are called names and told to go elsewhere.  Its OK to have differences of opnion, but WRONG to make it personal.  I comment on probably 1 out of every 7 articles on here.  So i must be ok with alot of what your write. 

          • Oct 29, 20121:58 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            “You have called me a homer thur many diffeent posts, didnt think this one was directed at me AT ALL.”

            Then why did you respond to it as if I was? What was unclear about what I wrote?

            “Yes im basing my thoughts on his college, summer league and presesaon.  what else is there?”

            I have no problem with what you’re basing it on. But you’re drawing definitive conclusions from that. I take issue with that and think it’s a bit hasty.

            “When does this become the truth?”

            It’s getting there. But there were also legit reasons to question Drummond’s motivation. He’s done a good job moving past those things. But again, he’s not there yet. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.

            “CANT ENGAGE IN REASONABLE DIALOGUE???  i have been called sooo many names on this site for just trying to have a dialogue on the pistons.”

            Reasonable dialogue can include reasonable insults. I’m not above someone insulting me, either. What I consider unreasonable dialogue from you is: 1. garbling up someone’s argument or removing context to present it as something that person didn’t actually mean or write; 2. harping on off-topic points, like your fixation on Dan writing that Drummond was a probable bust and demanding he apologize for it. First and foremost, people who demand apologies/retractions are the worst kinds of whiners. And secondly, he hasn’t even been proven wrong yet. Drummond hasn’t even played a real game. You’re acting as if a solid preseason and an inconsistent summer league are enough to say that Drummond has answered all of the questions that caused him to drop in the draft. That’s a ridiculous position.

            “I think you have some pretty thin skin when it comes to your blog site here” 

            I definitely do. If I feel like something I write is taken out of context, it makes me mad. 

    • Oct 29, 201211:29 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Who claims Dumars sucks at drafting? I have been one of the more (although far from the most) vocal anti-Dumars commenters. And I would love to keep Joe around as the head of the scouting department. I just think he sucks as a GM because he has no plan for the team. Maybe, hopefully, he’ll prove me wrong. But his last good move (apart from draft picks) was C Webb and his last great one was Sheed.

      • Oct 29, 201212:00 pm
        by bugsygod

        Reply

        “Who claims Dumars sucks at drafting?” are you kidding with that line?   Dumars gets KILLED on this site and many like it.  darko, cleaves, r. white, etc are contanly brought up as reasons that dumars cant draft and needs to be gotten rid of. 

        • Oct 29, 20126:15 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Unlike Patrick, I cannot claim that I read every comment on this site. Especially not the really long ones with no punctuation, capitalization, or paragraph breaks. Those hurt my head. And Dumars does sometimes get killed on this site. Although not nearly as much since Laser stopped commenting. However, he is not often attacked for his draft record (although often for failing to keep/develop his late draft steals). Darko is just one of the most popular jokes of the NBA (along with Kwame). But I dare you to find me within the last month multiple comments that talk about Cleaves or White. If you can’t, don’t say they are constantly brought up. Unless by constantly you mean once every few months.

  • Oct 29, 201211:24 am
    by RyanK

    Reply

    Do you really think it’s surprising he’s the second best big man on this team given who we have?  Tell me, who among this group do you think should be anything other than a reserve at best and not really NBA caliber more likely: Daye, Maxiell, CV, Slava  Slava is the only guy who’s an unknown at this point.  Maxiell…watching him walk and the end of the season is going to bring a smile to my face.
     
    Do you throw Jonas into that category?  Big man?  If so that it’s a conversation, if not, then it’s no surprise to anyone that Drummond is second best only to Monroe.

    • Oct 29, 201211:31 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Before preseason, I would have expected Max to be better than Drummond right now. Hopefully not anymore by halfway through the season. But Drummond looked so raw in both college and summer league.

    • Oct 29, 201211:34 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I’m not surprised from a talent-perspective. I’m surprised that he’s this ready to contribute this early. He’s obviously far more talented than any big on the roster other than Monroe. But Maxiell is a rotation player and so is Jerebko. I also thought at one point Wallace would be back in the mix, so I expected he’d be an impediment to Drummond getting into the rotation since he’s still a competent if limited rotation big. I didn’t think Drummond would move ahead of those three as the team’s best option next to Monroe by the time the season started. I expected maybe by the All-Star break he’d be pushing for minutes. Obviously, he’s on a much faster track than that.

  • Oct 29, 201212:20 pm
    by Ray

    Reply

    @ Patrick we can go back and forth forever… but Dwight was considered an athletic wonder…but called SOFT!!! By many critics during his rookie year…he was also a guy people were saying will takes years to develop…. Drummond played at UCONN switch was dysfunctional everyone knows that…. And when you consider Drummond didn’t event want to play College basketball in the first place, and UCONN was not his top choice is was suggested as a good place for him …. In this draft everyone was talking MOTOR!!! Players with a MOTOR!!! Drummonds MOTOR was questioned …. So he slipped… I love Kidd-Gilchrist but he is the biggest lottery project, but he went 2 because of his MOTOR!!! … Drummond had one summer league game where he look slow …outside of that one game…when have you questioned his motor? …. Name another player like Drummond you have seen in 10 years? And his production in the pre-seasons supports it …. Take away the 2 games where he didn’t get his normal minutes 11.6ppg 7.5rebs 1.6blks in 19 mints …. Dwight rookie year 12ppf 10rebs 1.6 blks 32 mins …. And Drummond has less quality big men that he will face night in and night out…

    • Oct 29, 201212:46 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      “Name another player like Drummond you have seen in 10 years?”

      Off the top of my head? Athletic big man prospects in the first round who block shots, run the floor and finish around the basket well? Howard, Chandler, Ibaka, Nene, Chris Wilcox, Melvin Ely, Ty Thomas, Mouhammed Sene, Oden, JaVale, Griffin, Aldrich, Seraphin, Kanter, Biyombo, Jonas V, Ant Davis.

      I mean, those players aren’t exactly alike, and obviously some busts along with some stars in there, so the spectrum is wide, but athletic, shot-blocking big men who are raw and need fundamentals refined aren’t what I would call extremely rare. Most guys who fit Drummond’s physical and athletic profile get a crack at the NBA. Most get taken within the top 15 picks of a draft. It doesn’t guarantee any kind of success. Projecting, based on a mediocre college season and a solid NBA preseason, that Drummond is going to be capable of what Dwight did as a rookie is a big stretch. Do you know how many bigs over the last decade or so have averaged a double-double as rookies? You can count the number on one hand.

  • Oct 29, 20121:26 pm
    by danny

    Reply

    Now name an athletic big man that is nba ready body.  You can count out pretty much everyone on that list but ibaka, kanter, oden, and howard.  How out of everyone on that list who went lower enough for us to pick?  I’d take drummond over a lot of those kids. 

    • Oct 29, 20121:29 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I didn’t say I wouldn’t. My point is, a lot of players fit Drummond’s profile going into the draft — young, raw, athletic, big, talented, good shot blockers, dunkers, etc. Drummond is a unique talent, but I wouldn’t say he’s completely out of the ordinary. there are similar (though not identical) players in virtually every draft. Some maximize their talent, some don’t.

      Also, Ibaka, Kanter, Oden and Howard are not the only ones with a NBA-ready body on that list. Nene, Wilcox, Sene, Aldrich, Biyombo and Jonas V were all plenty filled out when they were drafted. Granted, some of those guys were older than Drummond.

  • Oct 29, 20121:31 pm
    by Pratik

    Reply

    My main concerns with the Pistons right now is how there going to win on the road and how the Vets are going to be used + stay healthy. It was fun watching them in the preseason, but in order to become a consistent team now and in the future, this first road trip that the Pistons are going to face is going to be extremely crucial on how the finish the rest of the year. Yes, they were able to turn around a 4-20, shortened season last year, but who really wants to put themselves in such a big hole. We have to be able to win on the road. And I just can’t see it with the starting lineup that we have right now, because defensively we are horrible on the road. 

    And yes I do agree that the Pistons should be cautious with the development of Drummond, but at the same time if he continues to perform as he has done in the pre-season, I would start the best possible starting 5 at all times. 

    Also, if you look at the Spurs last year..gregg popovich started their bench in a lot of the games, and was not hesitant to bench their big three consisting of Duncan, Manu, and Parker. The bench surprisingly performed above expectation. I know this strategy was clearly used to make sure that the Spurs would be well rested and healthy for the playoffs, but the important part was that the young core of their team got to gain valuable experience starting in a lot of regular season games. And sometimes to develop players you have to give them responsibility. And not be afraid to bench players like Tayshaun Prince. It’s always been such a big deal in Detroit when Rip got benched, then Allen Iverson, etc. The coach should have that freedom and be able to use his team in anyway he wants to given that he is getting wins and the team is doing well. 

    So I feel that the Pistons are heading in the right direction, but again on Wednesday night we are going to see the same exact starting lineup, as we saw last year, and I just feel that’s not the correct decision. I’m not going to argue over who should start, but I’m a fan of trying out different possibilities until a certain group starts to get consistent wins, and plays well together. So far the team we have seen at home plays great, but on the road, they act like they’ve never played basketball before. So it’s important to start and play the right combinations and players both during the road and home. And Lawrence Frank just seems too reluctant to do that…I just wish he would take more risks and not play safe all the time. I know many people think that he made the correct decision last year to bench Jonas and bring in Maxiell, but come on..Jonas isn’t really a stretch 4, he’s a 3 in my eyes. And that’s where the Pistons coaching staff and Joe Dumars has been completely incorrect. Greg Monroe continues to play at the 5 – when he should be starting as the power forward for the team. Stuckey was seen as a point guard and now since we have brandon knight he’s a 2 all of a sudden (which I feel is the correct decision, but as the starting point guard he took strides and started to seem more comfortable being the leader of the team, we wasted 3 years developing him as the starting point guard and trading Chauncey away for what? To have him start at the 2 now). I’m sorry to bring up the past, but I’m not too happy of how the players have been used in the last few seasons. There are many more examples like Austin Daye (who they tried to convert into a stretch 4), JJ is a 3 and not a 4. 

    I feel that Dumars is the right man for the job and so is Lawrence Frank, but there not always going to make the best decisions. Dumars keeps saying that we have such a flexible roster and so many guys can play different positions, but to me that’s not the case with this team. They need to give the young core more responsibility and play players at their natural position. Stuckey is now all of a sudden our shooting guard, who can’t shoot consistently at all. We developed him as a point guard and just because Brandon was drafted they started to think that he’s best at 2. Why didn’t they realize that during his rookie season, where he could have been used along side Chauncey Billups, and not have broken up that team. Look at the Spurs there the same team for the last decade..and now Boston is going to go through transition as well, but they didn’t break up the entire team and trade their star player in Rondo and Paul Pierce. 

    Again, the past doesn’t matter anymore, but people who talk about “why do Joe Dumars” get ripped apart on this website and others, clearly have not watched any Pistons game or followed the team in the last decade or so as others have. I agree with what Dan and Patrick and the other talented writers have continued to display both the positives and negatives about the team. But let’s go Pistons!! We are all fans and want this team to be great again! But let’s be smart about it and be more realistic about this teams expectations.

  • Oct 29, 20121:43 pm
    by Ray

    Reply

    NONE!!!!! Have the ball-skills + ready NBA body + freak athletism ! They have some of what Drummond got not all … And if you really believe all of those players are special and gifted like Drummond how can you call Howard a once a generation type player?

    Example: Drummond lane agilty ranked among sf’s and SG ….NO big in combine history over 250 match drummond in any other than Nene in the 3/4 court sprint… So wouldn’t that make him more of the one a gernation type player?

    • Oct 29, 20121:50 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      “Have the ball-skills + ready NBA body + freak athletism !”

      Maybe not. But Drummond may not have all of the skills some of those players have or had when drafted, either. He doesn’t have the motor Nene came into the league with or the defensive ability Oden had, for example. He doesn’t have the offensive ability Griffin came into the league with.

      “And if you really believe all of those players are special and gifted like Drummond how can you call Howard a once a generation type player?”

      Howard is once in a generation because of what he achieved as a NBA player. That’s why I reject any comparisons between Drummond and Dwight. Right now, Drummond is an intriguing athlete and prospect. Dwight is one of the best defensive players of all time and one of the three or four best players in the league right now. Comparing the two is insulting to Howard.

      “So wouldn’t that make him more of the one a gernation type player?”

      Not unless they are basing Hall of Fame credentials on combine performance these days.

  • Oct 29, 20122:48 pm
    by Pratik

    Reply

    Love what Dan wrote for the free press a few days ago just saw it: http://www.freep.com/article/20121026/SPORTS03/121026032/detroit-pistons-lawrence-frank-pistonpowered?odyssey=obinsite

    Couldn’t agree more.

  • Oct 29, 20123:57 pm
    by Ray

    Reply

    “Maybe not. But Drummond may not have all of the skills some of those players have or had when drafted, either. He doesn’t have the motor Nene came into the league with or the defensive ability Oden had, for example. He doesn’t have the offensive ability Griffin came into the league with”

    Oden we have no clue, because of injuries…not worth getting into…Nene very skilled, but was also developed to be that way….Griffin is a 6’9 athletic PF different skill set all bad examples when comparing to a 6’11 270 19 year old….

    “Howard is once in a generation because of what he achieved as a NBA player. That’s why I reject any comparisons between Drummond and Dwight. Right now, Drummond is an intriguing athlete and prospect. Dwight is one of the best defensive players of all time and one of the three or four best players in the league right now. Comparing the two is insulting to Howard.”

    But he started off the same way Drummond did with all of the same type of questions and Howard relied on instinct and freakish athleticism just like Drummond did for the first 3-4 years of his NBA career…Drummond has just started to develop his basketball skills as a big man… Offensively Drummond is more advanced and more comfortable…. Defensively he dominated in HS and then was still a force in college if not for anthony davis he would have been the most talked about defensive player in college…drummond is on the same level Dwight was at 19! Not saying Drummond at 19 is like Dwight is not at 27 years old so its not an insult…

    • Oct 29, 20125:30 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      “But he started off the same way Drummond did with all of the same type of questions”

      He absolutely did not. If he had the same questions Drummond did, he wouldn’t have been the No. 1 pick. Drummond’s questions were about conditioning, work ethic and how badly he actually wanted to be a great player. Howard had none of those non-basketball questions pre-draft.

      • Oct 29, 20126:26 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        Just to go off of what Patrick said. There was a real debate over who should go first: Howard or Okafor. Now, it was one of those foregone conclusion debates (like Rose/Beasley or Oden/Durant). Nevertheless, if you are going to compare Drummond to Howard then you have to compare Robinson to a lesser version of Okafor. And, before the NCAA season, Drummond was pretty much considered the #2 NBA prospect. But because both those non-basketball questions came up and his production was suspect and inconsistent, Drummond fell. Were it not for those, he certainly would have gone higher than Robinson. And he probably would have gone 2nd overall.

  • Oct 29, 20125:09 pm
    by Ray

    Reply

    Can’t wait for the edit option

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