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Jonny Flynn coming to Pistons training camp

Vincent Goodwill of The Detroit News:

Source: PG Jonny Flynn will be in #Pistons camp, along with Terrence Williams.

Flynn has has been pretty bad as an NBA player, but there was a reason the Minnesota Timberwolves drafted him No. 6 overall into 2009. Maybe that’s because David Kahn is a moron, or maybe Flynn, still just 23, has some untapped potential.

For the mere price of a training-camp contract, it’s worth it for the Pistons to find out – even though I think Terrence Williams is much more likely to steal a spot on an already full roster.

53 Comments

  • Sep 23, 20127:28 pm
    by labatts

    Reply

    Just curious: Do you know why he has struggled?  I glanced at his stats, and nothing is standing out at me.  Not the worst assist to turnover ratio.  Three out of four years he had decent shooting percentages.  The one glaring number is the lack of minutes.

    • Sep 23, 20127:46 pm
      by DasMark

      Reply

      Lack of playmaking and general basketball IQ. Had great athleticism, until he started having hip  injuries. Not a great shooter either.  

      • Sep 23, 20128:13 pm
        by Max

        Reply

        He didn’t have such a bad rookie year…….the injuries definitely derailed his early career thereafter. 

  • Sep 23, 20127:45 pm
    by DasMark

    Reply

    Don’t see the harm in bringing him in for training camp. Detroit could use some depth at PG, but they would have to trade one of their six small forwards to clear space. 

  • Sep 23, 20127:54 pm
    by RyanK

    Reply

    We have a depth issue at point guard, so I like them brining in a journeyman to ride the pine until he’s needed for foul trouble, injuries, or suspensions.  Knight will hopefully play 35 minute per game…leaving 13 minutes for another PG (Stuckey, Bynum, Flynn).   Assuming he makes the regular season roster…long shot.
     
    Bynum has always struck me as more of a side show than an actual NBA player.  I’d rather not have him getting minutes on a nightly basis.  A guy like him matching Melo’s FGA per minutes played rate is ridiculous.

    • Sep 23, 20128:25 pm
      by labatts

      Reply

      Unfortunately, I agree with you about Bynum.  I have always liked him because he is hard working, shows up to practice when everyone else is “making a statement”, etc., but he really is not a reliable option.

      • Sep 23, 20129:49 pm
        by Mark

        Reply

        I have no desire to watch Bynum play another minute on this team. So assuming he is out, Stuckey is the only other PG, and he’s expected to play 36+ at SG. We don’t need him getting worn out as the backup PG too. So there should be an open role for Flynn as the primary back up PG, for maybe 15 mpg.

        Flynn is no scrub. He had the same type of rookie year as Knight. Just struggled the last two for w/e reason, injuries, trades, lockout, etc. But I can’t think of many teams with a more talented backup PG for 10-15 mpg tha Flynn could be for us. I think it’d be a great fit and perfect replacemet for Bynum. Just trade him for anything to make a roster spot.

         

  • Sep 23, 20128:44 pm
    by T Mc

    Reply

    Brandon knight is a good catch-n-shooter guard. He is far behind Bynum, Twill & Flynn in PG playmaking skills. His ceiling is lower than you homers think. Kinda like Stuckey good but not a all-star or elite talent. I watched summer league he did not look above the comp level. Like d.liddard or Josh Shelby. I expect him to get #’s just because of big mins. In a fair training camp Jonny & Twill would make the squad.

    • Sep 23, 20129:53 pm
      by Mark

      Reply

      You’re a joke man. You watcched Knight in SL? Did you see him avg more asts than any other player out of both SL’s, ORL and LV?

      Not the best example to say hes not a playmaker. And to say he’s worse than Bynum, who might be the most selfish worse playmaker in the league is beyond stupid.

      Sorry, but when you come with that BS you have to get called out

      • Sep 24, 201212:18 am
        by Mike Payne

        Reply

        Sorry, but when you come with that BS you have to get called out
         
        Your turn to get called out, Mark.  Over the last 25 years of Detroit Pistons history, who holds the franchise record in assists in a single game?  Will Bynum.
         
        In this century, where does Brandon Knight rank in assist rate amongst rookie guards?  122nd.
         
        You’re a joke man. You watcched Knight in SL?
         
        Call me when Summer League means anything.  If it did, Austin Daye would be league MVP.

        • Sep 24, 20127:43 am
          by RyanK

          Reply

          Bynum has had some sold performances…25 points in a quarter, 25 assists in a game, creating turnover after turnover…  But those are once per season type performances that happen because no one respects him or even pays attention to him.  Most the time he charges into the lane and throws up a crazy shot that gets rejected. 
           
          Bynum is a CBA/Israel type player…He’s not an NBA level talent. 

          • Sep 24, 20129:15 am
            by Patrick Hayes

            “Bynum is a CBA/Israel type player…He’s not an NBA level talent. ”

            That’s a huge overstatement. Does Bynum have flaws as a player? Certainly. Is he good enough to make just about any NBA roster in some capacity? Absolutely. 

          • Sep 24, 201210:47 am
            by RyanK

            “Is he good enough to make just about any NBA roster in some capacity? Absolutely.”  I made an overstatement?!?  Why couldn’t he get a NBA contract offer when he was a free agent?  Remember how long that went on?  No other team had an interest. 
             
            I remember Joe D in the media saying Will needed to bring him an offer to match…no offers were made, at least none were reported in the media.  His agent put a spin on it here: http://www.aolnews.com/2010/07/28/pistons-will-bynum-agree-to-3-year-deal/ 
             
            Bynum is not NBA material.  He filled a talent vacuum during one of the worst eras in Piston History.  He doesn’t cause problems and he works hard in practice…combine that with the lack of talent on the team as a whole and that explains why he stuck here for a few years.
             
            Joe D will let him walk at the end of the season…back to Turkey or where ever the talent level is low enough that they can justify him being a human black hole…  The ball goes into his hands and it is never seen again until it’s either rejected back or it clanks off the rim into the defensive rebounder’s hands.

          • Sep 24, 201211:08 am
            by Patrick Hayes

            Maybe he wanted more money than teams were willing to pay. Maybe teams knew Detroit was going to trump their offer if they made one, so they didn’t offer. There are a lot of factors besides just talent that lead to players getting or not getting offers in free agency.

            If you remove salary, however, and are just talking about talent, there is no question Bynum was a NBA talent who would’ve made most rosters. Now, maybe that isn’t the case right at this point. It depends on how healthy he is. But if he’s healthy, he’s clearly good enough to play in the league.

            Also, love when people talk about playing professionally in overseas leagues or whatever like it’s garbage or something. Bynum played in Israel, one of the top non-NBA pro leagues in the world. Turkey’s top league also has a very good reputation competition-wise and pay-wise.

            If Bynum goes overseas next season, that doesn’t mean he’s not a NBA-caliber player. It means he had the opportunity to make more money in a good international league than he would’ve on the end of a NBA bench. Nothing wrong with that. But it also doesn’t mean he lacks the talent to play in the NBA.

          • Sep 24, 20124:13 pm
            by Mark

            Like RyanK alluded to, the only reason Bynum was even on this team and still on this team was because they couldn’t find anyone better, and he came cheap. He was no longterm answer for anything, especially him being an older player.

            Now that they’ve found someone just as good, if not better, who is also younger and cheaper, it makes zero sense why they would keep Bynum over him. Unless they just can’t find anyone to take his contract and simply can’t make room for Flynn.

            Flynn’s career avg – 9 pts, 4 asts
            Bynum’s career avg – 8 pts, 3 asts
             
            Flynn’s expected salary – $1 mil
            Bynum’s expected salary – $3.3 mil

            Flynn’s age – 23
            Bynum’s age – 30

            Flynn’s best season – 13.5 pts, 4.4 asts 3 yrs ago
            Bynum’s best season – 10 pts, 4.5 asts 3 yrs ago

            Since then, both have steadily regressed. At 30, there’s little chance Bynum is going to turn it around and start back up an incline in production. At 23, there’s at least still a chance Flynn will turn it around and get back to that level he was at as a rookie.

            If the Pistons were a winning team the last 3 yrs and Bynum was a big part of that, I’d fully understand keeping him over a younger unproven guy. But the fact is we sucked the last 3 yrs, and Bynum did absolutely nothing to make any difference in that. Time to give someone else a chance in that role.

          • Sep 24, 20124:33 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            We can debate the merits of Bynum’s game vs. Flynn and probably never agree. Bynum isn’t great, but he’s far better as a reserve than he’s been given credit for in this thread. And on a team that started a natural, pass-first PG with Bynum’s instant offense as a backup, you’d probably feel differently about him. In Detroit, he’s been a shoot-first point guard on a team with too many shoot-first point guards. That, along with injuries, has hurt him. But to suggest that he’s not a NBA-level talent in some capacity is lunacy.

            I would argue he’s been a more reliable player than Flynn. Both have been injured, but I would argue that Flynn’s injury is far more serious and debilitating than any of Bynum’s, which have been more of the nagging variety.

            Bynum’s salary is exactly WHY Flynn stands little chance of getting a roster spot though.

            Bynum’s $3 million is guaranteed, so unless they find a team willing to take Bynum for a second round pick or cash and pay his salary, the Pistons are still on the hook for that, even if they wanted to cut him (which I’m not sure they do) and keep Flynn.

            Flynn and Williams stand very little chance of making this team. They are intriguing names because of their draft positions, but both have been awful as pros. Could the be upgrades over a few of the end of bench guys the Pistons have right now? Maybe. But they have to prove that they’re significant enough upgrades for the Pistons to eat guaranteed money in order to keep them.

            There’s always a possibility that a trade could clear additional spots, but as we’ve seen the last few years, trades are rare in these parts nowadays. Plus, what team really wants to trade for Daye, for example, coming off a terrible season, or Maggette or Bynum, for another example, who were both injured at times last season?

            Bynum is extremely likely to be on the team and Flynn is extremely unlikely to make it. I am admittedly intrigued some by the untapped potential that made Flynn and Williams lottery picks, and I wish the Pistons had the flexibility to take a longer look at one or both, but they don’t. So it’s pointless to do a blow by blow comparison of Flynn to Bynum because the fact is Flynn stands very little chance of beating him out for a variety of reasons.

            The fact is, the Pistons brought these guys in as training camp bodies. They are bigger names and younger than some typical training camp bodies, but until they prove otherwise, that’s all they are.

          • Sep 24, 20126:14 pm
            by RyanK

            You’re right, there’s nothing wrong with taking more money to play overseas…that’s what I would do if I were a guy like Bynum who few would even offer a contract to…and only Joe Dumars would give a fat deal to like he had the last three seasons.
             

          • Sep 24, 20129:07 pm
            by bugsygod

            RyanK great analysis on bynum, you nailed that one on the head! 

          • Sep 24, 201211:55 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            @bugsy:

            It’s ‘great analysis’ that he said a front office you support so loyally has kept a player who is, according to RyanK, not talented enough to be in the NBA for four, going on five, seasons now? Honestly, if that were the case — which it isn’t, Bynum is clearly good enough to be in the NBA on most teams — wouldn’t that be an indictment of that front office? What competently run organization would keep someone who could easily be purged from the roster around for as long as he’s been around?

            Makes no sense. Unless you are just agreeing with him because he disagreed with me. Which, in that case, your comment makes perfect sense. 

          • Sep 25, 20128:02 am
            by RyanK

            Bynum is a sideshow.  He was buried at the end of the bench on one of the worst teams in the NBA last season.  I don’t see how he can have a role on a good team when a bad one didn’t want him on the floor very much.
             
            When Joe D signed him, he was competing with Turkey or some other overseas team.  Other than the Pistons, NBA teams don’t want him.  When he goes overseas after this season, it’ll be for the money, because he can’t get much of an offer in this league…little on have a playing role. 
             
            I wish him the best, but he needs to go.  Our team is not better when he is on the floor. 

        • Sep 24, 20123:55 pm
          by Mark

          Reply

          Alright, your turn to get called out, Mike Payne.

          First of all, you need to read posts before deciding to chime in. Because “T mc” was the one using Summer League as a measuring stick of Knights playmaking ability, not me. He said Knight didn’t look above the competition level, like Lillard and Selby did.

          My response about Summer League was simply to point out that he was wrong, since Knight actually had more assists in SL than Lillard, Selby, and every other player in both SL’s.

          And its a bit hypocritical of you to say ”call me when Summer League means anything”, after just finishing talking up Bynum based on 1 fluke reg season game. Call me when 1 reg season game means anything….

          • Sep 24, 201210:37 pm
            by Mike Payne

            talking up Bynum based on 1 fluke reg season game
             
            So there’s zero irony in your eyes that the “most selfish worse playmaker in the league” holds a 27-year assist high for this franchise?  Okay, how about a wider sample size then.  In Bynum’s four year career as a Piston, his assist rate has been 38% higher than Knight’s was during his rookie season.
             
            I’m not here to defend Bynum though.  I just thought your “you’re a joke”, “you need to get called out” routine was hilarious when it was based on empty hyperbole and loose logic.  Be nice brother!

    • Sep 24, 20128:53 am
      by Steve K

      Reply

      Brandon Knight was the youngest player in the NBA last season, and he didn’t get a rookie league or a training camp.

      Those aren’t excuses. They’re facts. Players his age simply don’t come in to the league and dominate, unless they’re a Lebron-level talent. And nobody is saying he’s Lebron-level. Knight’s ceiling is that of a near-miss Allstar. His likely career trajectory is that of a mid-tier NBA PG, like a Mike Conley.

      As a rookie, I’d say he exceeded expectations. He may not wow anyone with his assist/turnover ratio, but I’d bet most GMs would be thrilled to have this kid on their roster. 

      • Sep 24, 201210:47 pm
        by Mike Payne

        Reply

        Brandon Knight was the youngest player in the NBA last season
         
        No he wasn’t.  Kyrie Irving is nearly four months younger.
         
        he didn’t get a rookie league or a training camp.
         
        Neither did Kyrie Irving.
         
        Those aren’t excuses. They’re facts.
         
        Well, no actually they’re not.
         
        Players his age simply don’t come in to the league and dominate
         
        Kyrie Irving did.  The only active guard who had a better rookie season than Irving did was Chris Paul, if you’re a fan of ESPN’s favorite metric.
         
        This talking point has been used a lot– that Knight didn’t have a summer league, a training camp, etc due to the lockout.  Yet amongst rookie point guards, he was barely the 4th most productive in 2011-12.  Those other guys have the same excuses you mentioned here on behalf of Knight.

        • Sep 25, 20127:45 am
          by RyanK

          Reply

          Knight played well last year…not well enough if that he doesn’t need improve, but well for a 19 year old rookie.  He made the all rookie team.
           
          I’ve read articles saying he’s improved greatly…he says himself that he has gotten so much better.  That’s exciting to read. 
           
          I don’t know if he’ll ever be an allstar or ever be as good as Kyrie Irving, but he definitely has a much higher ceiling that Bynum…I think that’s what this discussion has turned into, right?

  • Sep 23, 201210:46 pm
    by Brandow

    Reply

    i like how in the begining we were stacked with guards and needed big men and now we are stacked with big men and in need of guards, joe should definetly trade 2 or 3 of our SFs for draft picks so we wouldnt be so stacked and that way flynn can see a spot open on he pistons roster, but if i were joe i would let tay go and let him move on instead of being stuck as a piston

  • Sep 23, 201210:58 pm
    by D-TOWN

    Reply

    I definitely like the additions of williams and flynn. I would prefer both of them on the roster over bynum and maybe middleton. Although everyone seems to be against daye i still think he has some value, if he is off the team we have absolutely no 3 point shooting. The roster is such a strange balance but we should hold on and acquire the best young talent available. I like Daye as a 2/3 or 4 depending on the matchup. Although I never see daye as a starter or reserve playing big minutes i think he could contribute 18 minutes with about 8,9 points like he had in his earlier years.
    Jonny flynn as a rookie is comparable to knight. He is still only 23 and could be a nice backup.
    Twill to me can fill in the wholes as a guard or forward, he can also handle the ball and create for teammates. I really thought he would be a star out of louisville. Like flynn they both had nice rookie years, but didnt quite develop as we expected. Hopefully they can turn their careers around with us

    • Sep 23, 201211:42 pm
      by bball4224

      Reply

      No 3 pt shooting? Ummm Kim English and Charlie V both can handle that…

      • Sep 24, 201212:35 am
        by D-TOWN

        Reply

        I am excited about English but lets see what he can do on an NBA court. Charlie V is too much of a liability to enter the game/ he is in a logjam now with ad, gm, jj, jm, and sk too many bigs.

  • Sep 24, 201212:06 am
    by gmehl

    Reply

    I would be inclined to try and trade Daye, Bynum and let Middleton go. Then sign Flynn and Terrence Williams.

    • Sep 24, 20121:12 am
      by bball4224

      Reply

      And resign Ben Wallace!

  • Sep 24, 20128:10 am
    by tarsier

    Reply

    To those who said that there was no value in amnestying CV because it wouldn’t create cap room, here is the counter argument. It would be much easier to add guys like Williams, Flynn, and Ben Wallace with the extra roster spot. And at this point, it would be stupid to buy him out because then he’d count against the cap next year. As I said at the time, his contract is a sunk cost. It was all about weighing the odds of him putting together a productive season vs. the value of the flexibility gained with him off the team.

    • Sep 24, 201211:15 am
      by apa8ren9

      Reply

      Ive noticed the posts on both sides of that argument.  I see your point. 
      I just think if there is a .0001% chance that you are able to redeem CV and get something you have to see that through. I had my odds on him having a somewhat productive season.  Hell, he’s only been saying he would the entire time he’s been here. Something has to click 1 out of 5 years right? (I know Im reaching.)

      • Sep 24, 20128:29 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        I have nothing against the decision not to amnesty him. As long as it was a considered, deliberate decision. It is, after all, all about weighing the pros and cons. I am just very against keeping him simply by default or because there was perceived to be no value in amnestying him when it didn’t immediately create cap room.

  • Sep 24, 201212:15 pm
    by Ben Fridsma

    Reply

    CV had the whole city of Detroit turn on him last season. we have way to many big men on the time as of right now. If we are going to make room for these 2. Daye and maggette need to go.  will some one please tell me why maggette is the highest payed player on the team?  we got rid of gordon to save $. and now we pay maggette 10 mil? like for real is he worth 10 mil? and how much r we paying these 2 for a training camp contract? better not be over 500k

    • Sep 24, 20122:35 pm
      by G

      Reply

      Um, I’m not sure you understand how a trade works…

      Gordon was under contract for 2 more years for $12.4 mil in 2012 and $13.2 mil for 2013. Corey Maggette’s contract was worth just $10.9 mil for this year. We didn’t re-sign him or offer him a new contract. When you trade for somebody, you get the contract they are currently attached to. We swapped Gordon for Maggette, getting $1.5 mil off the books this season, and then Maggette comes off the books entirely.

    • Sep 24, 20122:37 pm
      by G

      Reply

      FYI – the 2 guys invited to camp aren’t guaranteed anything. If they make the roster, then they’ll be offered a contract.

  • Sep 24, 201212:56 pm
    by Slap Dog Hoops

    Reply

    I’ll be rooting for him.  The Pistons are in desperate need for a PG and if Flynn manages to return to his rookie year shape, he just may have a chance to make the team.

  • Sep 24, 20121:23 pm
    by IsraeliPiston

    Reply

    I read a lot here but rarely post but I need to defend Bynum a bit
    Not only did he play in Israel he played for Israel’s powerhouse team Maccabi Tel Aviv and lead Maccabi to the Euroleague final.
    Bynum can play for any team in the NBA and if he leaves Detroit he will end up like Delfino and Arron Afflalo

    • Sep 24, 20121:35 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Thank you very much for posting that.

      Bynum’s disadvantage after this season is he’s a little bit older than Delfino and AA were when they left, but I wholeheartedly agree with you — if he’s healthy, he’s a legitimate NBA player on just about any roster. 

      • Sep 24, 20123:50 pm
        by apa8ren9

        Reply

        I think that even though can make a roster and has NBA talent, that doesnt necessarily mean he could be a plus player.  Meaning can he be a starting point guard on a winning team? We all know the answer to that, but that doesnt mean he cannot play in the NBA. He’s just not a difference maker.  There are lots of guys like that in the league. They can still play and you need them. 
        Case in point, compare him to the long relief guy in baseball.  He fills in with an injury or if its a blowout for or against you and he wont embarrass himself like Austin Daye.
        Sorry I just had to get that in.

        • Sep 24, 20124:45 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          The problem with Bynum doesn’t have to do with Bynum. He’s a change of pace backup shoot-first point guard on a team that already had that pace in its starting lineup. The Pistons have just had too many guys with similar skillsets to him that are better or more highly regarded players or prospects — Iverson, Stuckey, now Knight. If Bynum was backing up a player like Jason Kidd, playing a role like J.J. Barea played on that Dallas title team, he’d be fine. As it stood, he’d come into games and do the same things the starters would do. The Pistons just have not had enough diversity of skills at the position. That doesn’t mean Bynum isn’t a NBA player. It just means he hasn’t been a great fit on this mis-matched roster.

          • Sep 24, 20124:53 pm
            by apa8ren9

            I see what you are saying.  I agree.  My whole premise was based on the fact that we’ve needed a front line point guard like (dare I say) Chauncey, since the Rodney Stuckey experiment failed.  Bynum doesnt deliver that.  So his skills dont fit and we cant take advantage and win games.  I with you on that.

          • Sep 24, 20129:32 pm
            by bugsygod

            Wait so your saying he had better players ahead of him so he couldnt perform well?  Either your a player or your not.  Either you injury prone or your not.  You make and define yourself.  He couldnt be a lock up back pg?  You keep talking bout his offensive game, but he gets KILLED on defense.  So maybe over the last 3 years he could have played better defense?  On offense he cant make better decisons because stuckey is in front of him?  I just dont get that line of thinking, that because better players with similar skill sets are in front me i dont play well.  I know you will say that the pistons org did not use him right too many coaches, too many injuries etc.  You either get it done or you dont, this is the NBA.

          • Sep 24, 201211:48 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            “Wait so your saying he had better players ahead of him so he couldnt perform well?”

            No. I didn’t say that.

            “Either your a player or your not.”

            A front office you generally think has done a very good job has kept him on the roster for four, going on five, seasons. So if he’s not a player, are you saying the front office has done a bad job evaluating talent and giving a roster spot to him?

            “Either you injury prone or your not.”

            I acknowledged throughout this thread that injuries and durability are a concern with him. Seriously. Go read. I’ve written it three or four times in various comments.

            “You make and define yourself.”

            I define myself as someone with the self-control to stop arguing with commenters who don’t listen to reason. And yet here I am, right back in arguments with commenters who don’t listen to reason. Some people just are what they are. As much as I’d like to define myself as something else, I am what I am. And Bynum is what he is.

            “He couldnt be a lock up back pg?”

            He’s pretty small. He does a reasonable job staying in front of guards (although he could do a little better job fighting over screens). The issue is height. Most guys he guards have a pretty easy time shooting over him. He could probably be more competitive defensively, but at the end of the day, guys are still going to get good looks against him.

            “You keep talking bout his offensive game, but he gets KILLED on defense.”

            He’s a role player. His role is to put pressure on a defense, speed the game up, get to the rim, draw contact and generally be an energy guy off the bench. Why do you expect role players to be complete players? The majority of guys in the NBA are not complete players. They do one or two things well, and they are used in roles that highlight their strengths and taken out of roles that expose their weaknesses.

            “On offense he cant make better decisons because stuckey is in front of him?”

            No one said this. I said that his offensive skillset and Stuckey’s offensive skillset are too similar. The Pistons have been too one-dimensional at the point guard spot. That’s not Stuckey’s fault or Bynum’s fault or Knight’s fault. Those guys all have skills they bring to the table. The issue has been their skills, particularly Bynum’s and Stuckey’s since they were the primary PGs before Knight’s arrival, are too similar. Teams can prepare to stop Stuckey and not have to adjust that strategy any when Bynum comes in because the scouting reports are the same — better in open court than halfcourt, like to get contact, like to get in the lane, can’t shoot well from perimeter.

            Generally, if you have a starter who is good at a lot of things, and then a backup who is good at the one or two areas where the starter is weak, that makes it a lot more difficult for an opposing defense to guard you.

            “I just dont get that line of thinking,”

            I’m glad you don’t get it, because it is a line of thinking I didn’t advocate or endorse. It is a line of thinking you incorrectly attributed to me because you like to be argumentative and you dislike understanding things that others say when it doesn’t jibe with your pre-formed opinions.

            “I know you will say that the pistons org did not use him right too many coaches, too many injuries etc. ”

            No, I won’t say this. But I find it interesting that you do. Too many coaches, injuries, etc. is not an excuse for Bynum, but have you not used similar excuses for Stuckey? I know you’ve used the ‘too many coaches’ thing for Stuckey. And you use them for Knight — too young, no training camp, etc. So why are excuses OK for certain players and not others?

            You don’t like Bynum’s game, and that’s fine. We all have players we like and don’t like watching more than others. But be real here. You’re not being an honest arguer. You are holding Bynum to standards you don’t hold others to because you happen to like certain other players more than you like Bynum.

          • Sep 25, 201212:21 pm
            by bugsygod

            1.  I have NEVER, NEVER EVER said too many coaches for stuckey or knight training camp short season… NEVER.   Those are excuses either you play well or you dont.  I have thought both have played well, but certainly not reached there potentials. Stuckey has not reached his full potential because of Stuckey, he has now made the total commitment to be the best he can.  So i expect a huge season from him.  Knight as well.  This is the NBA no excuse league.
            2. I have Bashed the organization, many a time.  The signing of CV, BG were totally DUMB.  I thought bynum would have been a better player, but now its obvious he is not the player ANY of us thought, including you.  In reading the comments this year from Dumars about they werent doing full research on players when they made the Darko pick.  WOW ! really smh Dumars.  Too much faith in prince so dont draft Carmello??  HORRIBLE DECISIONS.  I also give credit to the good to great decisions he has made.  Alot of ppl dont. 
            3. I was not talking about You patrick defining yourself, i was talking about bynum.  he has defined himself as a not so good defensive player, shoots too much, doesnt get others involved at all and totally not reliable even as a backup
            4. He does not provide any of things you mentioned for defense, agree hes small, but hell he can be a little disruptive?? 
            5. I still dont get the argument that stuckey, knight and bynum have similar skill sets, so that sets bynum back?  Stuckey & knight seem to have played reasonably well and have bright futures.  Bynum same skillset argument i agree to disagree.  You say other teams prepartion for them?  So why does that stop bynums success?
            6. I hold bynum to same exact standard as everyone else, either you can play or you cant.  Hell if CV guarded a few ppl, i would be alright with him.   One thing about me patrick i rarely care about players, just the team.  The front of the jersey Detroit Pistons!  If i guy can do it i role with him all day, if he cant cut it, get his ass out of there. 

  • Sep 24, 20122:24 pm
    by Willioam

    Reply

    You have a good player coming into training camp who is hungry and will be ready to prove himself to  the team. His problem has been his hip injury and the lack of playing time.

  • Sep 24, 20123:46 pm
    by Desolation Row

    Reply

    Obviously very different circumstances, so just as armchair-NBA-scout pornography: remember what happened last time the Pistons signed a perceived “bust” of a PG who played for Minnesota… 

    Hey, this guy’s still young. And there was a reason he was drafted as early as he was. Wasn’t in the best position to succeed in Minny, still has a career ahead of him if he stays healthy. Why the hell not give him a shot?  

    • Sep 24, 20124:38 pm
      by G

      Reply

      Let’s not start the Chauncey Billups comparisons just yet. Billups had been traded around a bunch (like Flynn), but the Pistons picked him up from MIN after he did a great job filling in for Terrell Brandon. Flynn’s coming off some injuries and we were the only team that even offered a make-good contract. I like the move, but let’s ease up a little on the expectations.

    • Sep 24, 20124:49 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      The ‘healthy’ thing you mentioned is a big problem though. His hip injury was really serious and robbed him of some of his quickness. Minus that, the rest of his game isn’t great — he’s not a good shooter and his defense hasn’t developed. He could still be a decent player, but I doubt the potential that made him a top five pick is still there because of that injury.

  • Sep 25, 20129:05 am
    by Derek

    Reply

    I like both players and I think the competition will bring out the best in them. 

    Just a few things to consider about Jonny Flynn:
    1. He was drafted and put in a position where the franchise was never really committed to him.  Evidence: Ricky Rubio hype.  Flynn admitted letting the hype get to him and was once quoted to say his rookie year felt like he played “82 road games”.

    2. He played in a system that was not geared to draw out his talents as creator, facilitator, etc. Evidence: Triangle Offense.  Coach Rambis knew the offense had been successful, but it also was for situations where your personnel did not include a skilled point guard.

    3. He suffered hip labral tear.  The hip labral is a ring like elastic like cartilidge around the hip socket.  His surgery was 7/2010.  He was released to play 10/2010.  This suggests the injury did serious to the point of having bone on bone, degenerative changes, etc.  He didn’t suffer any subsequent dislocations.  So it appears that he didn’t get adequate rest or rehab was lacking or something to effect.

    I believe he can regain his explosiveness under the right guidance.  Also watching him in college he presented as driven player that rises to challenges, thus a high character warrior on the court.  I say this not to take anything away from Bynum (who I followed during his short stay in Arizona…to when he resurfaced at Georgia Tech…to checking the internet for him when he dropped off the map).

    I like both players and I love the Pistons.  I hope the player that best suits what we are trying to do remains with the team.
       

  • Sep 25, 20129:07 am
    by Derek

    Reply

    CORRECTION

    Under 3 I said, ” This suggests the injury did serious to the point of having bone on bone, degenerative changes, etc. He didn’t suffer any subsequent dislocations. So it appears that he didn’t get adequate rest or rehab was lacking or something to effect.” 

    I meant to say: ” This suggests the injury was not serious to the point of having bone on bone, degenerative changes, etc. He didn’t suffer any subsequent dislocations. So it appears that he didn’t get adequate rest or rehab was lacking or something to effect.”  

  • Sep 26, 20123:46 am
    by domnick

    Reply

    if i were to choose between bynumite and jonny flynn… then i’d go with the younger fella…

    no offense but bynum is getting older and it won’t be a difference if we can trade him away and try jonny flynn who is alot better in playmaking skills than bynum…

    the only thing about bynum is instant offense… quick possibly much quicker than flynn right now.. but who knows… until training camp starts?

    im quite happy about getting terrence williams but roster is full and his attitude problems are not good to hear!

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