Comments on: NBA’s Ocean Eleven: Before Pau Gasol, there was Rasheed Wallace

By: Joseph

Joseph — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 19:49:12 +0000

To say that the Piston’s had a bottom 10 offense during those years is misleading. If you look at solely point per game this is accurate however if you turn back the clock you will remember that the Pistons grinding out possessions frequently taking shots with under 5 seconds. This generates lower scores but combined with that lower numbers of possessions and less of an opportunity for the opponent to score.
In 2005 – 6 The Pistons were the second most efficient offensive club (highwater mark for offense in the ‘Sheed years)
http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/year/2005
The championship year is misleading as ‘Sheed wasn’t on the team until later in the year.
2004 – 5 The Pistons were a middle of the pack offensive club with offensive efficiency but were dominating on the defensive end. Only the Spurs and Bulls were better defensively.
http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/defensiveEff/order/false/year/2005

By: CNA5

CNA5 — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 16:57:07 +0000

It’s hard to say. Deals are often fabricated and perpetuated by agents or GMs to meet their own objectives. Just was saying a rumored deal. I read some other ones too ranging from Minnesota offering several players and several draft picks to the ridiculous with New York getting Paul with the help of a third team (which I scratched my head at, because there was no way I thought they could get Paul after amnestying Billups and signing Chandler). The Westbrook rumor at least made sense.
Here’s one thing I absolutely DO know. There was a lot of talk in OKC’s front office about whether or not Westbrook was a long term running partner to Durant. This came out during the contract negotiations (I believe Marc Stein was one reporting it) for Westbrook’s contract. There was a lot of talk that OKC’s offense would be more balanced if they had more of a pass first PG.
That’s not a criticism of Westbrook. Let’s face it- on that team he NEEDS to score 20 most nights to win. If he, Harden, and Durant don’t score 60 points together, it’s often a tough game for OKC. We saw that first hand in the Miami series when Harden struggled.

It’s hard to know for sure. Also, there may or may not have been a number of deals offered that were tentative on Paul signing an extension. *shrugs*

By: tarsier

tarsier — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 13:11:34 +0000

I wouldn’t call Gasol a franchise player but he was definitely better on the whole than Sheed. That said, the two trades are still very comparable. And it was fun watching Sheed absolutely embarrass Malone in the Finals.

By: tarsier

tarsier — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 13:07:41 +0000

I doubt that OKC offer ever happened. I never saw anything about it anywhere reputable, OKC/Durant firmly maintained they’d rather hang on to Westbrook than chase after Paul, and it would have been the best offer for Paul so I can’t really see the Hornets opting for another package instead.

By: MrHappyMushroom

MrHappyMushroom — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 05:50:55 +0000

He was the best of ‘Sheeds, he was the worst of ‘Sheeds.

In 2004 and 2005, the situation was perfect for him and he was fabulous. After that, he got bored, frustrated, butt-hurt, lazy and was ultimately a guy the Pistons couldn’t count on. The last year, his refusal to give a flying fucque left a bad taste with me.

And I’ll maintain his selfishness cost the Celtics a championship. He was out of shape all year and tried to turn it on for the playoffs. But when Perkins went down for Game 7, the Celts needed 30 full-force minutes from ‘Sheed. He only had 25 to give them and I absolutely believe that resembling Morganna for 2/3 of the season was the reason.

By: Keith

Keith — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 04:24:27 +0000

Not to take away from any of the facts presented here, but I think Sheed was highly overrated as a scorer with us. For one, our offense was bottom 10 in the league even when he was on the team. Not to say it was his fault, we have consistently run a low mistake-low reward system for over a decade. For two, Sheed was himself well below league average efficiency every year he played for us (most especially for a 7 foot big man). Sheed, to me, while still a great player, will always be something of a poster child for never reaching one’s potential.
Sheed had all the skills in the world. He had incredible defensive awareness and good feet. He had footwork and unblockable shots in the post. He could hit threes and defend out to the perimeter. But his total was always less than the sum of his parts. He never really hit the boards. He consistently took bad outside shots despite, ultimately, not being a very good shooter (we’re talking about a 7 footer who never shot better than 44% from the field with the Pistons). His defense was generally very good, but he also coasted there when the competition didn’t meet his standards (the Horry mental lapse is the most notable, but not the only).
Rasheed should have been Tim Duncan with more range. But he never seemed to want to be that great. While the move worked, and we won the championship, I think comparing him to Gasol is too much. Gasol has been a consistently better player than Rasheed for all of their respective careers. Gasol single-handedly turned the Grizzlies into a playoff team, he was a true star at C in the West when Shaq, Yao, Duncan, and Garnett were still in their primes. Trading for Sheed was a huge upgrade for us, but we weren’t trading for a franchise player (what Gasol has legitimately been). And that’s a big difference. Trading for Sheed then would be more akin to trading for DeMarcus Cousins now. Both had crazy skill, both have significant holes in their approach to the game. Getting either guy might put a good team over the top, but neither guy should have ever been the foundation around which your team is built.

By: CNA5

CNA5 — Thu, 02 Aug 2012 21:07:23 +0000

The Lakers also got that because the League owned the Hornets at the time. Unlike the Rasheed trade, the Hornets had quite a few substantial offers from a number of teams.

I remembered a couple of the deals that looked as good, if not better, than the first deal. I think Boston offered Rondo and a pair of firsts for Paul. And, I think OKC offered Westbrook, Maynor, and a pair of firsts for Paul.

That’s the problem with Leagues having to take ownership of franchises. It’s really hard to avoid allegations of impropriety when other deals get rejected.

By: tarsier

tarsier — Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:28:15 +0000

It is interesting how for both of these really lopsided deals, one piece (Marc Gasol and Josh Smith) turned out to be so much better than expected that both really helped both sides.

By: Crispus

Crispus — Thu, 02 Aug 2012 18:00:32 +0000

Wouldn’t he be in his flying knucklehead phase during the Pistons’ turmoil? I doubt it would have ended well.

By: Brandow

Brandow — Thu, 02 Aug 2012 17:51:54 +0000

and the fact that the 1st round pick the pistons gave up was considered to be a josh smith pick, so i wonder how the pistons would contribute if j smooth was with the team