Comments on: Ben Wallace is no symbol http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/08/ben-wallace-is-no-symbol/ Your Go-To Source For Pistons Coverage Thu, 23 May 2013 16:54:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: tarsier http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/08/ben-wallace-is-no-symbol/comment-page-1/#comment-82917 tarsier Fri, 24 Aug 2012 21:44:23 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=10831#comment-82917 Coaches will teach Drummond defense. That's not Ben's job. This idea is way overstated. Having a great player on your team rarely translates to vast improvement in young guys. Have you seen the young PGs behind Chris Paul or the young SGs behind Kobe or the young SFs behind Lebron etc greatly improve as a result of having a teammate to teach them? Coaches will teach Drummond defense. That’s not Ben’s job. This idea is way overstated. Having a great player on your team rarely translates to vast improvement in young guys. Have you seen the young PGs behind Chris Paul or the young SGs behind Kobe or the young SFs behind Lebron etc greatly improve as a result of having a teammate to teach them?

]]> By: Patrick Hayes http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/08/ben-wallace-is-no-symbol/comment-page-1/#comment-82910 Patrick Hayes Fri, 24 Aug 2012 20:24:20 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=10831#comment-82910 <p>Actually, looking back on the box scores, Wallace's three DNP's late in the season, his minutes went to Villanueva, who was finally back healthy by then. Earlier in the season when Wallace need more rest, it looks like they just went with Monroe/Maxiell/Jerebko playing longer minutes.</p> Actually, looking back on the box scores, Wallace’s three DNP’s late in the season, his minutes went to Villanueva, who was finally back healthy by then. Earlier in the season when Wallace need more rest, it looks like they just went with Monroe/Maxiell/Jerebko playing longer minutes.

]]> By: Patrick Hayes http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/08/ben-wallace-is-no-symbol/comment-page-1/#comment-82905 Patrick Hayes Fri, 24 Aug 2012 20:22:22 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=10831#comment-82905 <p>Yeah, another good opportunity to do it. I'm not too upset about it one way or the other, but they did draft the guy and only had him under contract for one year, so I would think they'd want to get him a few meaningful minutes at some point just to see if he had anything there. But hey, maybe they saw enough behind the scenes to determine it wasn't worth it too. That's always a possibility. I don't think they missed some grand opportunity and Macklin is destined to be decent somewhere else. I just think it's a bit odd from an outsider perspective. But, like I said, they have far more information on the guy than I do. </p> Yeah, another good opportunity to do it.

I’m not too upset about it one way or the other, but they did draft the guy and only had him under contract for one year, so I would think they’d want to get him a few meaningful minutes at some point just to see if he had anything there. But hey, maybe they saw enough behind the scenes to determine it wasn’t worth it too. That’s always a possibility.

I don’t think they missed some grand opportunity and Macklin is destined to be decent somewhere else. I just think it’s a bit odd from an outsider perspective. But, like I said, they have far more information on the guy than I do. 

]]> By: CNA5 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/08/ben-wallace-is-no-symbol/comment-page-1/#comment-82904 CNA5 Fri, 24 Aug 2012 20:17:45 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=10831#comment-82904 I think Patrick was referring to the last 10 or so games of the season when you could kinda tell the Pistons gave up a little bit.  They were out of the playoff race at that point, so he has a point about why they didn't decide to give him a 5 minute block in the 2nd quarter just to get a look.   I think Patrick was referring to the last 10 or so games of the season when you could kinda tell the Pistons gave up a little bit.  They were out of the playoff race at that point, so he has a point about why they didn’t decide to give him a 5 minute block in the 2nd quarter just to get a look.
 

]]> By: bugsygod http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/08/ben-wallace-is-no-symbol/comment-page-1/#comment-82903 bugsygod Fri, 24 Aug 2012 20:17:30 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=10831#comment-82903 Ok i agree on that.  Funny, i dont even know what they did in those situations, now that you mention it.  Who did get Ben's minutes?  Just shortened the rotation? hmmm.... Ok i agree on that.  Funny, i dont even know what they did in those situations, now that you mention it.  Who did get Ben’s minutes?  Just shortened the rotation? hmmm….

]]> By: Patrick Hayes http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/08/ben-wallace-is-no-symbol/comment-page-1/#comment-82902 Patrick Hayes Fri, 24 Aug 2012 20:12:10 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=10831#comment-82902 <p>Not saying he should've been put in the rotation or anything. But there were times, for example, when Ben Wallace had to sit out a game on the second half of a back-to-back or something. I think that would've been an easy opportunity to slide Macklin in for 10-15 minutes of non-garbage time play to see if he had anything. I don't think the Pistons needed to give him a two or three week audition with those kind of minutes, I just think they should've tried it with a game or two, that's all. It's not a big deal that they didn't, it just would've been an opportunity to see if he had any potential to develop into a rotation player. Chances are, he probably won't. I just think he did enough in the very limited opportunities he did get to get a bigger look here or there. </p> Not saying he should’ve been put in the rotation or anything. But there were times, for example, when Ben Wallace had to sit out a game on the second half of a back-to-back or something. I think that would’ve been an easy opportunity to slide Macklin in for 10-15 minutes of non-garbage time play to see if he had anything.

I don’t think the Pistons needed to give him a two or three week audition with those kind of minutes, I just think they should’ve tried it with a game or two, that’s all. It’s not a big deal that they didn’t, it just would’ve been an opportunity to see if he had any potential to develop into a rotation player. Chances are, he probably won’t. I just think he did enough in the very limited opportunities he did get to get a bigger look here or there. 

]]> By: apa8ren9 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/08/ben-wallace-is-no-symbol/comment-page-1/#comment-82901 apa8ren9 Fri, 24 Aug 2012 20:04:59 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=10831#comment-82901 I agree 100 percent with your assessment.  At this particular point in our team's development we are looking for the first line/starters.  The players will sort it out themselves.  If you lose your spot you better not sulk (Daye) so that when you get another shot you FORCE the coach to play you with production.  The lack of accountability is no longer in the Pistons locker room.  If you play that means that you earned it and beat out the next guy on our roster.  That doesnt mean you are automatically better than your opponent on a given night, but a hierarchy on this roster will be established and criteria will be clearly laid out for each position.  I agree 100 percent with your assessment.  At this particular point in our team’s development we are looking for the first line/starters.  The players will sort it out themselves.  If you lose your spot you better not sulk (Daye) so that when you get another shot you FORCE the coach to play you with production.  The lack of accountability is no longer in the Pistons locker room.  If you play that means that you earned it and beat out the next guy on our roster.  That doesnt mean you are automatically better than your opponent on a given night, but a hierarchy on this roster will be established and criteria will be clearly laid out for each position. 

]]> By: bugsygod http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/08/ben-wallace-is-no-symbol/comment-page-1/#comment-82899 bugsygod Fri, 24 Aug 2012 19:54:58 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=10831#comment-82899 Who was Macklin supposed to get minutes over??? Jonas? Max? Monroe? Big Ben?  I understand your point to get a look at young guys, but if in practice he is not better than the person in front of him(and i dont think he was better than any of those guys) he doesnt play.  People try and make the rotations/playing time like rocket science.  The better player plays...period.  Not to down Macklin, too much, but he is out of the league now.  Meaning NO ONE has minutes for this guy.  Who was Macklin supposed to get minutes over??? Jonas? Max? Monroe? Big Ben?  I understand your point to get a look at young guys, but if in practice he is not better than the person in front of him(and i dont think he was better than any of those guys) he doesnt play.  People try and make the rotations/playing time like rocket science.  The better player plays…period.  Not to down Macklin, too much, but he is out of the league now.  Meaning NO ONE has minutes for this guy. 

]]> By: bugsygod http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/08/ben-wallace-is-no-symbol/comment-page-1/#comment-82898 bugsygod Fri, 24 Aug 2012 19:51:12 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=10831#comment-82898 Well i think the point of competion is for two or three players to compete for a position in the rotation.  You state that 14 guys "should" be in an NBA rotation, well if the person in front of you is better, then that person plays.  I would say we have 14 NBA players, but not all should be part of a rotation.  Daye was clearly, clearly beaten out by Wilkens last year, so what rotation should he be a part of?  CV has a mysterious ankle injury(soft cant compete) most of last year so he didnt play.  This year if Jonas is better than CV, than Jonas plays, if CV is better than Jonas, CV plays.  Its pretty simple actually.  The problem is when guys are just handed minutes based on name(hamilton), contract(cv/bg) or gm/owners pet(stuckey).  L. Frank is not having any of that, he has made it CRYSTAL CLEAR, what you have to do to be a part of the rotation.  Play hard, smart and tough on defense.  If CV, bynum, daye, cannot bring it on a daily basis they should not be part of the rotation....period!  If they become frustrated at this, then they clearly know what they have to do to get in the rotation.  This is what you call an EXCELLENT environment.  Players compete for spots and minutes, nothing is given.  Look at teams like Denver, Pacers, Sixers etc.  All playoff teams with deep rotations, this is what the Pistons need to be this year.  The next guy comes in and there is no drop off in production.  Look at the old Bad Boys, think of those practices, rodman, salley, microwave, mahorn, all coming off the bench.  When you dont have a true superstar like, lebron, wade, howard, bryant, etc, you try and run out as many good players as you can and all compete at high levels.  That is DETTRROITTT BASSKETTBALLL!!!! Well i think the point of competion is for two or three players to compete for a position in the rotation.  You state that 14 guys “should” be in an NBA rotation, well if the person in front of you is better, then that person plays.  I would say we have 14 NBA players, but not all should be part of a rotation.  Daye was clearly, clearly beaten out by Wilkens last year, so what rotation should he be a part of?  CV has a mysterious ankle injury(soft cant compete) most of last year so he didnt play.  This year if Jonas is better than CV, than Jonas plays, if CV is better than Jonas, CV plays.  Its pretty simple actually.  The problem is when guys are just handed minutes based on name(hamilton), contract(cv/bg) or gm/owners pet(stuckey).  L. Frank is not having any of that, he has made it CRYSTAL CLEAR, what you have to do to be a part of the rotation.  Play hard, smart and tough on defense.  If CV, bynum, daye, cannot bring it on a daily basis they should not be part of the rotation….period!  If they become frustrated at this, then they clearly know what they have to do to get in the rotation.  This is what you call an EXCELLENT environment.  Players compete for spots and minutes, nothing is given.  Look at teams like Denver, Pacers, Sixers etc.  All playoff teams with deep rotations, this is what the Pistons need to be this year.  The next guy comes in and there is no drop off in production.  Look at the old Bad Boys, think of those practices, rodman, salley, microwave, mahorn, all coming off the bench.  When you dont have a true superstar like, lebron, wade, howard, bryant, etc, you try and run out as many good players as you can and all compete at high levels.  That is DETTRROITTT BASSKETTBALLL!!!!

]]> By: Otis http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/08/ben-wallace-is-no-symbol/comment-page-1/#comment-82896 Otis Fri, 24 Aug 2012 19:31:23 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=10831#comment-82896 I got mixed feelings. Monroe is gonna get about 30 minutes at one of the power positions. Jerebko's the other "big" who's got a vise grip on a rotation spot, and we're already drowning in depth at SF too, so his minutes will come at the 4, and he's gonna get maybe 25.That leaves around 41 minutes available, and our remaining big men include Drummond, Slava, Maxiell, Villanueva, and uhh somehow Austin Daye (who gives new meaning to the term "stretch" four. Because it's a STRETCH to call him that! sorry). Also, a sensible big man rotation allows for only two more guys in the rotation, so adding Ben leaves basically four guys on the outside looking in.   The thing that drives me up the wall (or at least ONE of the many things) is that we're constantly picking our poison. Too few reliable options, almost no well-rounded players. You can plug a Villanueva into the rotation and he'll either carry the scoring load (1/10 times if you're lucky) or drag the whole team down while his man carries the scoring burden for the opponent. Or you can go with a Maxiell, who's going to give you a fairly reliable, tangible contribution, but it won't be much.   I have no idea how this team of at least 14 guys who "should" be in an NBA rotation (whether that's based on draft position, potential and the need for minutes to develop, or based on the financial commitment the team's made to them... and if Middleton comes out and plays well that makes 15) gets boiled down into a manageable rotation that makes sense. All of these guys have good reason to believe they should be playing, and you can be 100% sure that there are going to be some guys glued to the bench who are just as good as guys who get to play, but they'll be victims of the numbers game.   What kind of environment is this? And on a bad team, no less. It's got to be frustrating. It's not like you got some young wing guys who are playing behind Wade and Lebron and Battier and Ray Allen. They need to distill the talent on this team somehow and create a hierarchy that makes sense. I understand adding Ben, and I'm for it, but after they've shuffled things around to make room for him (if that happens), they need to do something about the numbers game so they don't have 1/3 of their roster justifiably frustrated that they can't get any PT over guys they play to a standstill in practice. I got mixed feelings. Monroe is gonna get about 30 minutes at one of the power positions. Jerebko’s the other “big” who’s got a vise grip on a rotation spot, and we’re already drowning in depth at SF too, so his minutes will come at the 4, and he’s gonna get maybe 25.That leaves around 41 minutes available, and our remaining big men include Drummond, Slava, Maxiell, Villanueva, and uhh somehow Austin Daye (who gives new meaning to the term “stretch” four. Because it’s a STRETCH to call him that! sorry). Also, a sensible big man rotation allows for only two more guys in the rotation, so adding Ben leaves basically four guys on the outside looking in.
 
The thing that drives me up the wall (or at least ONE of the many things) is that we’re constantly picking our poison. Too few reliable options, almost no well-rounded players. You can plug a Villanueva into the rotation and he’ll either carry the scoring load (1/10 times if you’re lucky) or drag the whole team down while his man carries the scoring burden for the opponent. Or you can go with a Maxiell, who’s going to give you a fairly reliable, tangible contribution, but it won’t be much.
 
I have no idea how this team of at least 14 guys who “should” be in an NBA rotation (whether that’s based on draft position, potential and the need for minutes to develop, or based on the financial commitment the team’s made to them… and if Middleton comes out and plays well that makes 15) gets boiled down into a manageable rotation that makes sense. All of these guys have good reason to believe they should be playing, and you can be 100% sure that there are going to be some guys glued to the bench who are just as good as guys who get to play, but they’ll be victims of the numbers game.
 
What kind of environment is this? And on a bad team, no less. It’s got to be frustrating. It’s not like you got some young wing guys who are playing behind Wade and Lebron and Battier and Ray Allen. They need to distill the talent on this team somehow and create a hierarchy that makes sense. I understand adding Ben, and I’m for it, but after they’ve shuffled things around to make room for him (if that happens), they need to do something about the numbers game so they don’t have 1/3 of their roster justifiably frustrated that they can’t get any PT over guys they play to a standstill in practice.

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