Comments on: Kyle Singler, Andre Drummond, Kim English try and build on strong performances in Summer League opener

By: Bugsygod

Bugsygod — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 11:05:10 +0000

But Patrick you keep mentioning lamb an Barton they would duplicate English not Middleton. Look at their size. Lamb 6’4 Barton barely 6’6. Neither of those guys plays or can play SF. Middleton is 6’8 so he can swing between SF an SG. If you go back an look at the picks after Middleton he was the last guy at that size. So I’m not sure it’s as questionable a pick as you think. But if the gamble doesn’t pay off who cares we got plenty of other guys!

By: Patrick Hayes

Patrick Hayes — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 01:43:18 +0000

In the long run, passing on O'Quinn for Middleton likely isn't going to be some sort of organization crippling move. But you should never ever pass up the opportunity to upgrade talent. O'Quinn, in my opinion, has a much better shot at being a NBA rotation player someday than Middleton does.

Also, the Langlois thing you quote makes no sense. The Pistons were too deep in the frontcourt to add O'Quinn, but their five guys already on the roster capable of playing small forward didn't scare them off from taking Middleton? Small forward was easily their deepest position heading into the draft. Maybe not deep with quality players, but deep with guys under contract for next season.

By: Patrick Hayes

Patrick Hayes — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 01:39:48 +0000

True. Alando Tucker was an amazing summer league player too when he was with the Suns.

By: Patrick Hayes

Patrick Hayes — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 01:38:53 +0000

@bugsy:

But this is the thing ... look back at the original argument. It didn't say Dumars is bad at drafting. It didn't say that the Pistons haven't made some fine picks over the years. It didn't say that they have no prospects on the roster that fans should be excited about.

It said the Middleton pick, by itself, was a questionable choice. That's not cherry picking or looking back with hindsight and criticizing. That pick happened just recently. He was picked much higher than most thought he would go. He was picked with better players who play his position still on the board. That's what make the pick a reach and a questionable.

If the goal was to get two wings and let them fight it out for one roster spot, then great. If that's your strategy, do it. But you should also take the best wing players available with each pick if that's your strategy. It was a reach, and if Middleton does indeed end up not making the roster, that reach is going to justifiably be considered a poor decision. Not a crippling decision, not a decision that says Dumars drafts bad or anything like that. But it was an opportunity to possibly get a better player that was missed.

By: Patrick Hayes

Patrick Hayes — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 01:34:34 +0000

That may have been the case. In fact, I don’t fault that strategy necessarily — double up on a position hoping that one of the two pans out. But there would still be cause for criticism since there were wings like Doron Lamb and Will Barton for example who were significantly better players and prospects than Middleton. This isn’t hindsight. This is using the data that was available. I have yet to find one mock draft or scout who writes about the draft who had Middleton in the same tier as Baron/Lamb.

By: Bugsygod

Bugsygod — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 00:47:13 +0000

Xcellent point max. Agree Patrick that Middleton does not look good. However this is what most ppl asked for a big an two wings. Need to add athletism and speed. We did all know every second rd pick is a gamble. So what’s the point of the critism? “Ha Ha you made bad pick.” “You big dummy why didn’t u pick so n so”. Constructive critism is when you hope or plan to get a positive result. A change for the better. “hey Drummond if you hold the ball a lil to the left that may help you” “daye I need you to bust your ass back on every play”. So sometimes I don’t see the point of the comments? Fire Dumars? Say pistons suck? I just want the team to win another championship an this team is getting the talent to do it. We’re not gonna be right all the time but that’s the goal. A championship!

I’m glad we picked Monroe an not Ed Davis. I’m glad we drafted Brandon knight instead of Kemba walker. I’m glad we drafted Drummond instead of Myers Leonard

By: Mark

Mark — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 00:13:16 +0000

I didn’t like the Middleton pick at the time, and he’s not done anything to change my mind. However, the guy I wanted at 39 we got at 44 anyways, so I really could care less about the Middleton pick. If you have two 2nd round picks and even 1 of them pans out, its cause for celebration. To complain that both may not pan out is just expecting too much. And it looks like English is going to be good, so who cares about Middleton?

Langlois said we would’ve takem O’Quinn instead of Middleton, but with Drummond and Karvstov there was no room for him anyways.

I like O’Quinn, but lets be realistic, he’s probably at best Jason Maxiell type of backup. Backup bigs like are a dime a dozen. The only reason he looked so great in the 1st half today was because he’s a 4 yr college player going against an 18 yr old. And no one mentions that O’Quinn didn’t score and grabbed 0 rebounds in the 2nd half, of which Drummond was on him for 10 of those 20 minutes

By: apa8ren9

apa8ren9 — Tue, 10 Jul 2012 22:28:59 +0000

@Patrick, I think Anthony Randolph might disagree with that. LOL

By: oats

oats — Tue, 10 Jul 2012 21:23:52 +0000

First, Kravstov played 22 minutes a game. He also put up a whopping 8 points and 4 rebounds in those 22 minutes. Not bad, but not really killing it. And 22 minutes a game is fairly limited minutes, although I’ll concede that it isn’t unusual for good Euros to play less than 25 minutes a game. The point is, Kravstov isn’t exactly killing it out there. Sure, he’s pretty good, but an 8 and 4 isn’t awesome. O’Quinn meanwhile put up a 16 and 10 in 31 minutes, and he also had an extra block a game. Plus, I literally just watched O’Quinn outplay Drummond. That says something for him, no?

Secondly, I’m not saying passing on O’Quinn is holding us back. I’m saying to be executive of the year you have to, you know, do a really good job. Drummond and English were good picks, although Drummond is especially tough to give him extra points for considering the fact that Drummond dropped pretty hard for Dumars to get a chance at him. Not screwing that up is something I guess, but not really a huge positive. Botching the Middleton pick when there was plenty of NBA talent available is pretty bad. The BG trade is at best a draw for Dumars, and if that ends up as a lottery pick then he might flat out lose that trade. My real point is not about Dumars making a bad personnel decision on BG, but rather that the he doesn’t get Executive of the Year consideration for giving up a valuable asset to lose a predictably negative asset.

This should have been pretty obvious, but all I’m saying is Dumars is not an Executive of the Year candidate right now. English was a good pick, but there were plenty of talented guys to choose from. Drummond looks good, but he is a raw talent that has a lot of risks. There is reason Drummond slipped to 9, and while I think he makes sense at 9 I don’t think Dumars deserves a ton of credit for getting Drummond right around where most GMs thought he was no longer too risky. Middleton looks like a terrible pick. Kravstov might be a savvy signing, but it complicates a crowded roster, it might force us to dump one of our 8 or so SFs, and makes the Middleton pick look much worse. BG was moved by giving up a valuable asset, and that asset might end up having more value than the cap space we acquire from this move. None of these moves are Executive of the Year material. At best, this year he has been solid but not great. The Pistons look to be decent because Monroe was such a good pick, but that was 3 drafts ago and has no real bearing on whether Dumars deserves Executive of the Year for this season. That’s all I’m saying, Dumars is not having a great year just yet.

By: Max

Max — Tue, 10 Jul 2012 21:16:43 +0000

It may well be that Dumars did not envision both of his second round choices making the squad and drafted two players in English and Middleton that would have to fight it out during the summer league for one spot. In such a case, there would be no cause for criticism if Middleton fails to make the team.