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Kim English becoming a cult hero among Pistons fans

Me at the Detroit Free Press:

Of all Joe Dumars’ mistakes, trading Arron Afflalo holds a special place among the most devastating.

Drafting Darko Milicic and signing Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva were ill-fated decisions, but none made Pistons fans suffer the doubling indignity of watching them excel elsewhere. I doubt Gordon or Villanueva — once the Pistons finally get around to dumping him — will change that.

But Afflalo has become one of the NBA’s better shooting guards in Denver, making his trade — for what would become late second-round pick Vernon Macklin, a player apparently no longer in the Pistons’ plans — even more difficult to stomach.

Chauncey Billups has had success after Detroit, but at least in exchange for him, the Pistons received Allen Iverson coming off arguably his best season since he won the MVP — and the promise of cap room if Iverson didn’t work out. For Afflalo, they not only got practically nothing, that was the plan all along.

It’s in that framework Kim English is quickly becoming a cult hero among Pistons fans — a second chance at Afflalo.

62 Comments

  • Jul 20, 20124:15 pm
    by Eric

    Reply

    affalo over stucky all day. better attitude, shooter, defender.

    • Jul 20, 20124:33 pm
      by labatts

      Reply

      Attitude wise, I think Stuckey grew up last year.  They are also hard to compare since the playing style is so different.

    • Jul 21, 20128:58 am
      by The Dude

      Reply

      Stuckey and Afflalo was such a fun backcourt to watch off the bench. That 2007-08 bench was bad ass.

    • Jul 21, 201211:21 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Better shooter, yes. Better defender, maybe, but it’s close. Much, much worse though at creating his own shot, getting to the line, and setting up teammates. Attitude is kinda tough to tell, I don’t know either personally. And neither has had such an incredibly good or bad attitude as to stand out from afar.

  • Jul 20, 20124:26 pm
    by Victor

    Reply

    Where is the Czar of All Comparisons now? Just kidding Dan and Patrick. Loved the article. Hope Kim is a good SG.

    • Jul 20, 20124:45 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Feldman is already a repeat offender with his Daye-Durant and Gordon-Vinnie Johnson stuff from the past. There’s no hope for him.

      • Jul 20, 20124:52 pm
        by Victor

        Reply

        I just thought it was a pretty funny coincidence that just after you posted about comprisons, the following post would be a comparison itself. A good one I may say. But it is somewhat an irony.

        • Jul 20, 20125:02 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          I’ve actually been waiting for him to link to his column all day just so I could point out the irony and induct him into the Unreasonable Comparisons Club, but you beat me to it. Haha.

    • Jul 20, 20124:52 pm
      by Guus

      Reply

      Haha, was thinking the same thing ;P
      But I guess it would fall under the realistic comparison categorie Patrick talked about: If he works hard at it, I think an Afflalo type player would be a feasible outcome for English. He certainly seems to have the attitude and work ethic down :)

    • Jul 20, 20125:01 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Yeah, English-Afflalo … I’m OK with that comparison. Not because it’s likely English will be as good as Afflalo, but English was a very productive college player. That was my issue with Rice-Middleton — not only is Middleton not an elite shooter, he wasn’t a great college player either. I understand why he’s a prospect and why he had an up and down college career, but I just think guys should show some modicum of production at some level before they get compared. English can shoot and plays D, and he’s proven that at a pretty high level. Afflalo can shoot and play D, likely at a higher level than English will, but it’s not an out of left field comparison.

  • Jul 20, 20125:41 pm
    by C-Foe

    Reply

    Patrick, when I saw the video of the rookie press conference he impressed me the most out of the 3 rookies.  Sometimes you can hear passion in a person’s voice.  He sounded like a young man who was very happy to be a Detroit Piston.  He knew our history and respected the organization and what it’s accomplished.  From that point, I’ve been rooting for him.   I agree with Guus, he does have the attitude and work ethic.  I’m tired of prima donna players not respecting these organizations that give them opportunities.  It’s good to see players who come in and just work hard.   I’ve mentioned how much I hated losing Affalo on this board before because we traded him when he finally put it all together as an NBA player.   So I agree 200% with your statement that trading Affalo was devastating to those of us who were fans of his.  He’s been a very good player in Denver. He works within their system.  If English is the next Affalo then I’ll take it, but I hope he’s better.

  • Jul 20, 20125:53 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    this fan gets on joe d all of the time for his approach to drafting and developing players.
    with the english pick, however, he seems to have hit on another gem.
    nothing bad to say about him.  
    he’s quicker than afflalo, with better lateral movement, but afflalo appears to be bigger and stronger. 
    he needs to have better judgment about when to take his man off the dribble – he appears to force some drives to the basket – but that aggressiveness might land him on the free throw line, also. 
    a great pick by joe d, and english looks like he will be able to carve a niche for himself in the league. 
    btw, it certainly doesn’t make up for the stupendously dumb afflalo trade – which was done, remember to facilitate that astoundingly stupid series of personnel moves the summer he signed CV and BG – but it salves the pain a bit.

    • Jul 20, 201211:46 pm
      by jacob

      Reply

      When the Detroit Pistons traded Ben Gordon to the Charlotte Bobcats for Corey Maggette last month, it had as much — or more — to do with contracts and the salary cap as any other factor. Prior to last season, in an attempt to best understand the new CBA and how to work contracts and the cap, the Detroit Pistons hired Ken Castanella from the NBA offices to be their guru on those areas, according to Keith Langolis at Pistons.com.
      “He’s a huge resource,” [team president Joe] Dumars said. “You hear people talk about the new CBA and how you have to prepare for the new CBA, well, we have a guy who was a part of the negotiations. He knows the intricacies of the new CBA as well as anybody does. It’s been huge to just walk over to his office and ask, ‘How is this going to impact us a year from now, two years from now.’ Ken has been great.”
      In an age when the big-money teams are lining up All-Stars three deep, it’s imperative that smaller market teams like the Pistons make smart financial moves. Next summer, they will have just Rodney Stuckey, Brandon Knight, Greg Monroe, Andre Drummond, Tayshaun Prince, Jonas Jerebko, Kim English and Charlie Villanueva (his option) under contract. Austin Daye will be a restricted free agent. As a result, they could have as much as $30 million under the cap with which to play next offseason.
      - Tom Carpenter

      • Jul 20, 201211:49 pm
        by jacob

        Reply

        It’s not easy being a gm in the nba. I know we have been bad for a couple years but affalo wasn’t really going to make us that much better. I think he has a really good plan in place and has drafted extremely well.

        • Jul 21, 20125:01 am
          by MrHappyMushroom

          Reply

          I disagree, Jacob.
           
          The team would have been a little better with AA instead of Gordon for starters. But if Joe had a clue that AA could be a solid NBA starter–and Joe drafted him and watched him show all evidence of this over two seasons–Gordon is perhaps never signed.  So, AA + $55 million to spend?  Yeah, that could have made a difference.

  • Jul 20, 20125:56 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    one more thing…
    as much as i hated joe dumping afflalo the player, i also thought that he’d gotten rid of the young player who could have emerged as the leader of a new generation of pistons.  the team still has not found that player, though monroe shows signs.  it was always confounding that joe seemed to not value that part of afflalo’s worth.
    english also appears to have the same kind of leadership abilities as afflalo, skills that are sadly lacking on the team and have been for years now.

  • Jul 20, 20126:40 pm
    by Mark

    Reply

    “Devistated” over the trading of Afflalo?

    He’s an overpaid and overrated role player. No one should be devistated over dumping him, especially since he would’ve lost him to FA anyways, as there’s no way Dumars would’ve or even could’ve paid him $8 mil/yr during the ownership change. Another casualty of the ownership fiasco maybe, but anyone devistated about losing a role player has their priorities mixed up.

    • Jul 20, 20129:47 pm
      by Andrew

      Reply

      If we had kept Afflalo and not signed Gordon, Afflalo would have stayed Rip’s back-up and Rip would have stayed happy.  Afflalo, being untested as a starter, could have been re-signed for far less than the contract he ended up getting.

      However, that sequence would probably have improved our team enough that we don’t end up drafting as highly the last few years, which oddly enough could leave us in a worse spot now.  So a dumb call by Dumars that in the long run may be for the best.  Monroe>>>Afflalo.

      • Jul 21, 201212:44 am
        by jacob

        Reply

        Maybe it wasn’t dumb. Nba rosters are small.

  • Jul 20, 20126:44 pm
    by Mark

    Reply

    I agree though that English is quickly becoming a cult hero among fans, but it has nothing to do with Afflalo. Its because he’s a very interesting character who’s work ethic, knowledge of the game, and excitement to be a Piston is refreshing in comparison to the lazy bums like CV, BG , AI, and others we’ve signed/traded for recently. Plus he’s got some awesom tweets if you folow him on twitter, :)

  • Jul 20, 201211:20 pm
    by gmehl

    Reply

    Geez thinking that Afflalo was traded for a 2nd rounder that eventually became Macklin and now Macklin is gone for nothing just makes me sad. Yeah we have English now but it doesn’t make up for the pain of having to watch Afflalo succeed in Denver the last 3-4 years. I remember watching a segment on the Nuggets (i think inside the NBA) which was centred on Afflalo and his workout routine and it made sad. This was screened around the time Billups was finding his old form there and was really forming a great (in-expensive) backcourt pairing with Afflalo. It sucked because it was the backcourt that we should of had but noooooo we were forking out 18mil per year on a backcourt of Hamilton/Stuckey for half the production. Having said that everything as a piston fan has gotten better since then but it still didn’t take away the pain to see that duo excel in Denver. I think Gores should never let Joe deal with the Nuggets ever again because its obvious they always seem to fleece us on trades.

    • Jul 21, 201212:13 am
      by Mark

      Reply

      I honestly couldn’t give 2 shits about Afflalo. ppl need to stop acting like he’s become a superstar or something and we gave him away for nothing. He was a solid role player when he was here, and now he’s just a more developed solid role player in DEN, like any player is in their 5th year compared to their 2nd. That doesn’t make him special.

      Could we have gotten more value in return for him? Probably, but its not like the difference wouldve been the difference between winning a championship or not, so ppl need to stop fussing over it.

      • Jul 21, 201212:20 am
        by jacob

        Reply

        Read above. Now we have a core group of good young talent and tons of cap room. If anyone is mad about the first round pick next year to get rid of gordon, they are crazy. We need to develope young talent and stay under the cap. Maybe pick up a Josh Smith next year.

        • Jul 21, 201212:26 am
          by jacob

          Reply

          Some other possibilites, Harden, Ibaka, Evans, Ellis, Brewer.

          • Jul 21, 20123:19 am
            by Tom Y.

            I think Harden would be the prize. I’ve wanted Josh Smith for a while but he’s about to reach an age where players who depend on athleticism start to decline. Plus if Drummond develops well, we won’t have a starting frontcourt spot for Smith. Whereas Harden should just be about to reach his peak, and will probably be better than Stuckey, younger and with less injury history. Stuckey will have only one year left on his contract by then – he could stay for a transition year and they could experiment with him as a 6th man (ironically previous 6th man of the year Harden would take his starting spot) or be traded for value.

  • Jul 21, 20128:04 am
    by Eric

    Reply

    Lets hope he can defend and shoot the three at a high %.

    Pistons need to have a good yr to attract free agents next year.

    My Plan: Amnest Prince next offseason, provides more cap flexibility than to amnesty Charlie V.

    Big Free agents on the market.  James Harden, Josh Smith, Andrew Bynum, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Serge Ibaka, just to name a few.  The Pistons will be one of a few teams that could sign multipe players.  

    If the Pistons do not want to trade Knight, Stuckey, Monroe, or Drummond, sign Harden and Josh Smith, backup point guard, maybe Collision.  If willing to trade these playes make a play for the others.

    Potential Lineup 2013

    PG Brandon Knight SG Rodney Stuckey SF Josh Smith PF Greg Monroe C Andre Drummond
    Bench: Collision, Harden, Singler, Jerebko, Villanueva, English, the the other C.

    • Jul 21, 20128:39 am
      by DoctorDaveT

      Reply

      The Pistons only have one player that they can amnesty: CV

    • Jul 21, 20129:25 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      How sick would it be if the Pistons somehow convinced Howard to sign? I’m not seeing Paul leaving LAC nor Harden OKC. But all the emphasis on Harden may leave Ibaka miffed (who I personally believe is more valuable than Harden). If Detroit got Ibaka, Bynum, or Howard, the frontcourt would be all set and the Pistons could be ready to return to contention.

      I believe that Stuckey, Prince, Jerebko, Monroe, Knight, Drummond, Singler, English, and Kravtsov will add up to about $33M. That should leave around $24M to work with after cap holds. That’s enough for 2 max/near-max contracts. Although don’t count on those happening because then the Pistons salary would absolutely balloon over the next couple seasons as the raises start taking their tolls and Monroe, Knight, and maybe Drummond reach the end of their rookie deals.

      What would be really great would be such a signing paired with a Prince/Gay trade. Memphis gets financial relief and Detroit gets a big upgrade but one who only hits the budget for two seasons. Then all we’d need is a bargain basement guard to round out the roster.

      • Jul 22, 20125:21 am
        by Max

        Reply

        Howard would never come and I’m glad of it.   I’d hate seeing him or Bynum in a Pistons uniform but I’d love Ibaka.   Howard and Bynum are not my kind of jerks and don’t compare well with the kind of likeable (if they are on your team) jerks the Pistons have had in the past.  They are both thoroughly unlikeable and nearly impossible to root for.

        • Jul 22, 20127:36 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          The main reason I don’t mind rooting for these “jerks” (like Dwight) is that they only seem to be bad guys in the sports sense. They are not criminals. They did not go all Sprewell on their coaches. Howard just failed to handle his business in a professional manner. certainly a red flag as a repeat performance could be a major distraction for a team. So that reduces his value. But his talent is sufficient to make up for that in my opinion.

          So I’m not the type to mind having a “jerk” on the team I root for. But I can understand people who do take issue with it. I know where you’re coming from on Howard. What do you have against Bynum? This is a genuine question, not a you’re-wrong-but-I’ll-phrase-it-as-a-question.

          • Jul 22, 20122:15 pm
            by Max

            Howard is inauthentic in his persona and treats the public like dupes.  His behavior over the last couple of years is a disgrace to himself and the NBA.  Also, while the Magic could not have handled his tenure worse themselves, Howard has been so wishy washy, unclear and unreasonable during the last couple of years that he has actually made their franchise and management the objects of sympathy.
            Bynum is terminally immature, will never “get it”and treats his teammates like crap.  He also makes some of stupidest comments of any player in the league every year and that is saying a lot.   He might even be more selfish than Kobe since he has publicly demanded to take Kobe’s shots instead of Kobe.  Did you hear about the incident last season when he shot a three pointer for the second game in the row for no reason?   Mike Brown rightly pulled him from the game but when Bynum talked to the media after the game, he said Brown might have a problem with him taking threes but he was going to still take them.   I think this may partially be a case of having played for Phil Jackson and not respecting a lesser coach but the problem is that every coach he will ever play for again is probably going to be an inferior coach and even more so by Bynum’s perception.  Therefore, he is going to defiantly cause trouble and sow discord and I don’t want him on the Pistons.  I actually think he is mentally ill (here I go in my amateur psychiatrist’s chair again) and just hasn’t been diagnosed yet like Cousins or Beasley.    Unlike them though, I think Bynum has a borderline personality disorder whereas they are bipolar.  And LeBum has a narcissistic personality disorder.
             

          • Jul 22, 20122:16 pm
            by Max

            And I love Sprewell.  At least he was authentic.

          • Jul 22, 20127:56 pm
            by tarsier

            re: Bynum
            That’s fair. I’d still like to have either Howard or Bynum for the right price (and at least for Howard, that would include a max contract as long as Detroit didn’t trade a ton of assets for him), but I can see why someone wouldn’t like them.

            re: LeBron
            Did you really have to bring him up again when talking to me? We have wildly different opinions on him. I think we’ve pretty much explained them to each other as much as we can. It is time to just drop that conversation because we unswervingly disagree and there really isn’t anything more to add to it anyway.

          • Jul 22, 20128:18 pm
            by Crispus

            I believe the medical term for what LeBron suffers from is “Kanyitis”.

          • Jul 23, 20121:34 am
            by Max

            @Tarsier:  Just including LeBum on my list of players with mental disorders.
            @Crispus  Good one!  Kanye West too.

    • Jul 21, 201210:11 am
      by sop

      Reply

      Eric,
      A. Prince is actually still a very good value player and amnestying him would send a terrible message to potential free agents that the Pistons don’t really care about their players.
      B. Amnesty for CV3 next summer makes sense unless he has the most unbelievable resurgent year of all time.
      C. There is no way the Pistons can acquire Harden, Josh Smith and Darren Collison, plus extend Monroe next summer with a maximum possible cap space of just under $28 mil.
      2013 Top Free Agents, likely destination, age at start of 2013-14 season
      1. Dwight UFA (probably stays with Lakers or goes to Dallas) 27
      2. CP3 UFA (probably stays with Clippers) 28
      3. James Harden RFA (stays with OKC, Thunder match any offer) 24
      4.  Al Jefferson UFA (Utah probably trades him at the Feb. Deadline or he resigns) 28
      5. Serge Ibaka RFA (stays with OKC, amnesty Perkins) 24
      6. Andrew Bynum UFA (stays with Lakers or goes to Dallas) 26
      7. Josh Smith UFA (Detroit overpays for him or stays with ATL which has huge cap space) 27
      8. Paul Milsap UFA (Utah probably trades him at the Feb. Deadline or he resigns) 28
      9. Steph Curry RFA (GS matches any offer) 25
      10.  Tyreke Evans RFA (Good chance he leaves Sacto, probably lands in ATL) 24
      11. Monta Ellis ETO (Bucks extend him this season) 28
      12. Ty Lawson RFA (Nugs matches any offer) 26
      13. Jeff Teague RFA (ATL matches any reasonable offer) 25
      14. J.J. Redick UFA (Minnesota likely to make a run at him) 29
      15. Darren Collison UFA (doubt he’s the long term solution at the point for DAL) 26
      16. Taj Gibson RFA (Bulls unlikely to match the unrealistic offer he gets) 28
      17. Kevin Martin UFA (Good chance he leaves Hou) 30
      18. Anthony Morrow UFA (50% chance of staying in ATL) 28
      19. Tiago Splitter RFA (stays with Spurs) 28
      20. Elton Brand UFA (signs with a contender) 34, David West UFA (Pacer resign) 33
       

      • Jul 21, 201212:25 pm
        by Crispus

        Reply

        Given your meticulous and somehow depressing list I’d prefer the Pistons try to cultivate the talent/potential they have. Paying to much for too little value on the open market is what got us into our current malaise. I’m not saying Joe D shouldn’t sign anybody, but he should have fatheads of CV and BG on the walls of the office where he is making the phone calls.

      • Jul 21, 201212:48 pm
        by jacob

        Reply

        Does anyone know the FA list for 2014? I’ve been looking it for it everywhere.

        • Jul 21, 20124:20 pm
          by sop

          Reply

          Rule of thumb is that the rookie class from four years ago (in 2014 it will be Monroe’s class or 2010) will all be RFAs unless they have already signed an extension. Beyond that anyone who signed a max contract with their team in 2008 or a max with another team in 2009.

          • Jul 21, 20125:30 pm
            by tarsier

            True but RFAs aren’t usually very consequential. Not much movement amongst them. It’s the UFAs that really make a free agent class.

        • Jul 21, 20125:29 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Why 2014?

          • Jul 22, 20122:23 pm
            by jacob

            Just wondering if they don’t sign anyone next offseason. Maybe the year after.

      • Jul 21, 20125:41 pm
        by Eric

        Reply

        Well I figure Howard or Bynum if not traded would not want to come to Detroit.

        Of the 2013 free agents James Harden and Josh Smith may be better options, but Pistons will have to overpay, so maybe they wouldn’t be able to get both.

        If they could get one of the two I would be happy, plus a PG (possibly Collison to backup Knight).

        if the piston offered 14-15 mil a yr I don’t see OKC matching as the main core is Westbrook and Durant and they have to think about down the line signing them and also Ibaka.  

        If not Smith could be signed for similiar amount to start at SF.

        • Jul 21, 201211:25 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          They couldn’t start Harden at $14-15M because of the CBA. They could have enough cap room to sign both harden and Smoove. The questions are really if OKC would match a max contract for Harden and if Harden would accept said deal. If he plays well again next season, he’ll probably have a couple max offers. But if he wants to stay in OKC, he may just negotiate with them.

    • Jul 21, 20121:24 pm
      by Victor

      Reply

      Prince cannot be amnestied in the first place. His contract was signed after new CBA. It is not eligible for an amnesty.

      • Jul 21, 20125:28 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        I’m kinda surprised by how few people seem to realize this fact. I feel like if you follow the NBA enough to understand the amnesty provision and the ramifications thereof–including which salaries could be worth removing, you should know who the amnesty clause can be used on.

  • Jul 21, 20121:39 pm
    by Max

    Reply

    I can’t wait for this season because Stuckey is going to kill it and put himself a tier or two above Afflalo and put that debate to rest for all time.   Does anyone remember how Stuckey beasted once he was healthy last year?   Afflalo has never even approached that level of play and never will.  Do I wish Dumars had kept him?   Sure, but it’s nothing to moan about and the Pistons have not really lacked for decent play at the two guard.   The bigs have been and and will continue to be the problem until Drummond or someone else steps up to compliment Monroe and guard the rim.  Rasheed’s decline signaled an absolute end to their run and, in my view, the past few years of pain were fairly unavoidable and Afflalo’s presence could not have made a significant impact.  I do think he is a very good role player and a positive for any team.  He just doesn’t move the bar.

  • Jul 21, 20121:50 pm
    by jacob

    Reply

    They will amnesty CV next year unless he goes off this year. i’m still thinking they may make a trade at some point. (Maybe even at the deadline.)

  • Jul 22, 201212:55 am
    by Travis

    Reply

    I would like to think that readers on here are smarter than MLive or Pistons.com readers, but reading the amnesty Prince and “we should have amnestied CV31″ comments gives me face palm. Running an NBA team isn’t like running a Fantasy Basketball team.

    I mean seriously, how many times do Feldman/ Hayes mention contracts and salary in their posts? My guesstimation is several times each month. Secondly, hardcore fans when talking about trades should consider them if it were your money or business. Gores didn’t become a billionaire by overspending on acquisitions. He gave the go ahead on Hamilton because it was absolutely neccesary for the team to rebuild with youth and with the new coach.

    As for 2013 & 2014, the big signings will be our own players. Why sign one or two starters next season if you can’t resign Knight or Monroe in a few seasons because in 2013 you overpaid for Josh Smith or Harden?

    MLive/Freep/DetNews commentators always mention how idiotic the moves Joe Dumars has made since 2008, but based on their comments I wouldn’t want them operating my business, let alone my favorite sports teams.

    • Jul 22, 20128:00 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      So what’s wrong with the “we should have amnestied CV” comments? It would just open up a roster spot. Gores pays him the same amount either way. Yeah, it might make for a little heftier salary hit if that open roster spot is used. But if it is, it would almost certainly be for a min contract anyway. Bottom line, the only reason to keep CV around is if you think there is a chance of his actually being an asset to the team. Getting rid of him probably won’t help at all, but it does increase flexibility. Given the unpredictable nature of the business, that is worthwhile to have.

      As for the big signings being our own players, that’s malarkey. There is not enough talent on this team to become a contender, even once developed. The Pistons need another good player. And they will have bird rights on Knight and Monroe so it’s not like they won’t be able to re-sign them just because they got another big contract. Luxury tax may well be unpalatable, and that would probably prevent using all the potential cap space next summer from being used to sign two new big contracts. But with all the cap space next summer, the fact that Detroit has lost one of its next two first rounders, Prince coming off the books as those internal raises are set tot kick in, and the fact that it is unlikely all three of Monroe, Knight, and Drummond will become near max contract level players, trying to get some outside talent is definitely the smartest approach–just not in the form of handing Smoove a max deal or some such stupid move.

      • Jul 22, 201210:35 am
        by Travis

        Reply

        Tarsier,

        Thank you for proving my point in the first statement. You’ve obviously never run a business before. “Gores pays him the same amount either way”. This is not true. Not only does Gores need to pay his salary, minus the difference from the highest bidder off from the waiver, but he also has to pay his replacements salary for the next 2-3 years. Would you personally pay out of your pocket (in Gores’ case, Platnium Equity’s financiers accounts) Rip Hamilton and CV31′s salary and their replacements salaries? Once again this real money we are taking about, not Fantasy Basketball where it’s all about roster spots.

        You and other fans contradict each other when advocating using the amnesty provision on CV31 and then in the same breath talk about how beneficial it will be to the Pistons to have $30 million in cape space next season. Adding another $5-$8 million dollars would diminish that cap space. Im in disagreement on adding another markee player to the roster. After 2 years the Pistons will need to bring in an inexpensive SF & 2 veterans to hep stabilize the bench while Drummond, Knight, Monroe, English, and the SF (Im less certain of whom this will be) do their work.

        • Jul 22, 201211:10 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Ah yes, you’re right. I forgot about the difference of whatever the highest bidder pays. I guess I was assuming noone would bid. So Gores would pay less. And I did friggin’ account for paying his replacement. If you had read my whole comment before replying snarkily, you would realize that.

          “Yeah, it might make for a little heftier salary hit if that open roster spot is used. But if it is, it would almost certainly be for a min contract anyway.”

          As I said, the upside is all about flexibility. That roster spot does not need to be used. If it is, the min contract that goes in it will probably be less than the savings Gores gets from another team bidding on CV if anyone does. And his “replacement” is not needed because he lost his place in the rotation. In other words, he wasn’t doing anything. All the slack can be picked up without hiring a replacement.

          Yes, I’ve never run a business. I’ve also never, I don’t know, filed an insurance claim for a damaged or stolen vehicle. In both cases, that means there are probably some things about it that I wouldn’t think of until I did it. And some of those are probably different in every case anyway so even if I had some of them would remain. But really freaking obvious points like what you pointed out are hardly beyond my ability to grasp in spite of never having done it. Just like I would know better than to pay for damages before consulting my insurance company and then expect them to refund my bills.

          “Would you personally pay out of your pocket (in Gores’ case, Platnium Equity’s financiers accounts) Rip Hamilton and CV31?s salary and their replacements salaries?”
          Ummm…they’re paying those players salaries anyway. That’s called a sunk cost, Mr. Business 101. Again, their replacements are optional, especially if they are not playing major roles anyway or there are others just waiting for minutes to open up in order to get major roles. And if they are not replaced or the replacements cost less than what is saved by buying out or another team claiming the guy off waivers, that would be a net gain.

          It would seem that in your haste to insult me, you failed to practice good reading comprehension as you imply that I was suggesting that if CV were amnestied, he would immediately be replaced by a guy who costs $5-8M. That is absurd. Especially since I specifically said otherwise. Try figuring out what people are saying before telling them they are wrong.

  • Jul 22, 201210:37 am
    by Travis

    Reply

    If CV31 cant produce or be traded, I’m for using the Amnesty option on CV31 next offseason.

    • Jul 22, 201212:20 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      What changes next offseason to make you more open-minded? You think there is a chance CV could turn things around this coming season but not the following one?

      • Jul 22, 20123:04 pm
        by Max

        Reply

        It makes more sense next season because it can go in tandem with the Pistons getting under the cap and there will be a nice crop of free agents.

        • Jul 22, 20127:57 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          True, but if he was amnestied this off season, he’d still be off the books next year. And it would create more flexibility in the meantime in case some opportunity came up midseason.

          • Jul 23, 20128:54 am
            by bugsygod

            if he plays well, then they can possibly trade him and not have to anmesty.  I dont see where the flexibility is this year?  We will have 20mil in cap space next year w/o the amnesty and another 8mil if we amnesty CV next year.  If we do it this year whats the point?  They still pay him, they are still over the cap and cant add FA’s.  So why not wait till next year, thats the SMART thing to do.

          • Jul 24, 201212:50 pm
            by tarsier

            The flexibility comes because who knows what will happen all season. Maybe a potential trade comes up and the difference between it being acceptable/doable or not is the presence of CV on the team. For a trade to fit those conditions maybe another has to happen first. So it’s a long shot that his absence from the team makes any difference. But I think it’s an even longer shot that he plays well enough to be traded for an expiring deal or whatever.

    • Jul 26, 20125:46 pm
      by Ty

      Reply

      You know it all fans crack me up.  Travis you are such a condesending little prick it’s hilarious.  My first time on this site and last.  Let me know when Travis is running the Pistons so I can sell all my gear as we are stuck in Mediocrity.

  • Jul 22, 201211:39 am
    by jacob

    Reply

    Gores probably bought this team hoping to turn it around. So at some point he will have to spend some money. Scared money don’t make no money.

    • Jul 23, 201211:13 am
      by sebastian

      Reply

      Jacob like you say, “scared money don’t make no money,” is the very reason why I say Joe needs to get on the phone with two teams: 1) the Grizzlies: offer them some salary relief and veteran leadership at their wing position with Tay and Maggette for Rudy Gay; and 2) Note: because of CBA rules this trade cannot take place until 8/11/12, but offer Singler to the Bucks for Tobias Harris, then WE roll with:
      PG- Knight/Stuckey/Will B.
      SG- Stuckey/English/Daye
      SF- Gay/Harris
      PF- Moose/Jerebko/Charlie V./Maxey
      C- The Ukranian/Drummond/Big Ben
       
       

      • Jul 24, 201212:55 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        What’s the point of the Singler/Harris trade? They are both totally NBA-unproven prospects of comparable value who play the same position. If anything, Singler’s skill set is a slightly better fit for the Pistons than Harris’. I mean, the trade wouldn’t bother me because at this point, it’s a 50/50 shot who would end up with the better player. But GMs rarely do such things. Both of those players are on the team that picked them. So odds are their current GMs at least slightly overvalue them. In other words: not gonna happen.

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