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Andre Drummond’s talent, youth both on display this summer/Game Thread

Andre Drummond had his worst game of the summer league Tuesday against Kyle O’Quinn and the Orlando Magic. Brian Windhorst of ESPN writes that that was no accident. O’Quinn, an underrated player from a small college who fell in the draft, purposely used the opportunity to play against a hyped, big-school lottery pick to show what he could do:

Tuesday, for example, he became the personal target of Orlando Magic rookie Kyle O’Quinn, who was the 49th pick overall. O’Quinn went after Drummond both physically and mentally, bashing into him and trash talking all the way. Drummond did not appear totally up for the moment, posting a three-point, three-rebound game. Afterward, O’Quinn, a four-year college player at little Norfolk State who showed polished footwork and extreme confidence, crowed about outworking the lottery pick from the big school.

“I wouldn’t say people look at me as a target, just a player they need to play against,” Drummond said matter-of-factly. “Why would someone target me just because I’m a lottery pick?”

Well actually Andre … yes. There’s a lot of charming naivete in that quote from Drummond. In fact, one of the common descriptions of Drummond by former teammates and coaches is that he’s a genuinely really nice person, sometimes to his detriment on the court. The NBA is full of grudge-holders, full of guys who are motivated by slights both real and perceived, full of guys who use the opportunity to play against higher profile players to show that they are better.

But the most promising thing about Drummond so far this summer? He rebounded from that sluggish performance against Orlando and played really well against Oklahoma City the next day. Developing a mental toughness and ability to move past poor performances is huge for young players and it was great to see Drummond was able to do that.

(Oh, and feel free to use this as your open thread for today’s game, which is already underway, since I forgot to post one)

Essentials

  • Teams: Detroit Pistons vs. Boston Celtics
  • Date: July 12, 2012
  • Time: 11 a.m.
  • Television: NBATV


48 Comments

  • Jul 12, 201212:08 pm
    by Travis

    Reply

    As a fan Im really enjoying watching the Celtics vs. Pistons game on both ends of the court. Knight is having a great game as a point guard. Middleton is having his best performance in Orlando. Drummond is playing within his game by avoiding monster dunks and instead going for the soft and easy layups.

  • Jul 12, 201212:08 pm
    by Reaction

    Reply

    Drummond is making it realll hard game for Sully

  • Jul 12, 201212:16 pm
    by jacob

    Reply

    To Patrick: What do you think they plan is now that they have signed English? Who do you see on their roster this season?

    • Jul 12, 201212:18 pm
      by Reaction

      Reply

      Not Patrick but I can see the potential they thought Middleton had. Hope they at least stash him in Europe if they decide not to have a spot for him

    • Jul 12, 201212:31 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      It really depends on a lot of things. One thing that is off the table for sure is the amnesty. All indications are that if they use it, it won’t be until next offseason when they’ll have more significant cap space.

      - Would Middleton be amenable to playing overseas for a year?
      - Is Ben Wallace really committing to playing another year?
      - Do they have a trade in the works to clear a roster spot, either trading a player for a pick or a 2-for-1 or 3-for-2 type of trade?
      - Will they buy out one of their expiring contract veterans like Bynum or Maggette?

      My best guess at the roster for next season:

      Locks: Monroe, Knight, Drummond, Stuckey, Jerebko

      Will be here, but the team would listen to trade offers: Prince, Villanueva, Maxiell, Bynum, Maggette, Daye, English, Singler, Kravstov 

      Will be here if he wants: Wallace

      Unlikely to make the team: Middleton

      Like I said, they could certainly make some sort of trade and get some roster flexibility. I hope they do, because it would be a shame to not give Middleton a longer look. But if they don’t make a trade, I would guess Middleton will be odd man out.

  • Jul 12, 201212:18 pm
    by Nate

    Reply

    Drummond is having a great game. Rebounding well, showing a good offensive touch, keeping Sullinger contained. The refs keep calling a lot of fouls on the Pistons though. Am I the only one who isn’t seeing the fouls?

    • Jul 12, 201212:27 pm
      by Reaction

      Reply

      No they are there. I can see them happening most of the time. Those mainly on Drummond are because he doesn’t see to have complete control of his hands when he goes into the air for a rebound/block.

    • Jul 12, 201212:28 pm
      by Scott Free

      Reply

      I hear many of these refs are trying to prove themselves to the league the same way as the players are.

      • Jul 12, 201212:37 pm
        by Crispus

        Reply

        I hope they are calling plenty of unwarranted technicals then.

  • Jul 12, 201212:27 pm
    by Scott Free

    Reply

    “Developing a mental toughness and ability to move past poor performances is huge for young players and it was great to see Drummond was able to do that.”

    I don’t think Ben Gordon EVER developed it.

  • Jul 12, 201212:28 pm
    by KLG

    Reply

    Drummond is showing once again that he belongs in the NBA. Runs the floor well, blocks shots and rebounds at a good rate. He has a lot to learn about rotational defense and needs to box out but the foundation is there. He also needs a jump hook. He is not utilizing those long arms in the post. Instead he elects to shoot his jumper that has a low-release point. Knight continues to disappoint. Forces the issue and his decision making has been subpar. Middleton is having his best outing by far due to Singler sitting out. Don’t think it’s enough for him to stick though. I like English as a catch and shoot guy right now. He handles the ball well enough to develop into a combo guard.

    • Jul 12, 201212:33 pm
      by Reaction

      Reply

      How the hell is Knight disappointing. Do you even watch the game before you talk? 17 points 12 assists 3 rbs and a steal is disappointing? AND the fourth quarter just started. The only reason we are ahead is because Knight is playing superb and finding players. Watch the game before you talk.

      • Jul 12, 201212:36 pm
        by Reaction

        Reply

        Lets say each of the 12 assists were 2 pointers (which they weren’t but w/e) Knight has been part of 12x 2+ 17= 41 point so far. You are trying to say that his decision making is bad and he’s forcing the issue? How is he forcing the issue and has bad decision making when he has 12 assists already and has 5/11 shooting especially since he ends up taking end of the clock shots since there are nonroster players stalling the ball instead of getting inside.

        • Jul 12, 201212:39 pm
          by KLG

          Reply

          I’ve watched every game and was looking at the first half of this game. He HAS forced the issue in EVERY Summer League game. Is all u took from my post?

          • Jul 12, 201212:42 pm
            by Reaction

            No but the fact of the matter is you don’t realize this is the summer league. He is playing with players who don’t know the plays / end up running out of position and missing the accurate pass that Knight makes. I won’t deny he had a horrible shooting night yesterday but he also had to force up a ton of shots if you rewatch it yesterday. I do agree with everything you said about Drummond but I think you are being wayy to harsh of a critic of Knight just based on these Summer games thus far.

          • Jul 12, 201212:45 pm
            by Travis

            KLG, “Is all (that you) took from my post?”

            - Yep

            The rest of your comments are null and void after the “Knight continues to disappoint.” statement.

    • Jul 12, 201212:33 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Players with his size and athleticism belong in the NBA by default. They stick around 5 years or more whether they get significantly better or not.

      I’ve been excited that Drummond has bounced back from a poor performance with a couple of decent ones. I would like to see him be more aggressive though. Might not be in his nature at this point yet.

    • Jul 12, 201212:35 pm
      by Travis

      Reply

      “Knight continues to disappoint.”

      You must be watching CSULB’s Casper Ware and thought he was Knight.

      Knight’s stats as of 7 mins to go in the 4th are:
      17 pts, 12 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 5/11 FG, 7/8 FT

      • Jul 12, 201212:51 pm
        by KLG

        Reply

        I was looking at the first half when I made the comment. I agree with Reaction that he’s playing with out of position players but he doesn’t have to force shots with other scorers on the team. He is having a better game as I am looking at it on DVR delay. But for this to be his only good game is disappointing…period. He’s STILL playing with those same inexperienced players but found a way to have a good game. He didn’t do that in the first 3 games.

        • Jul 12, 201212:55 pm
          by Nate

          Reply

          He’s been playing with them more often. The more you play with someone the more you know where they want the ball, their tendencies, etc. It makes a lot of sense that he’d be getting better at assisting as he plays more games with these guys.

        • Jul 12, 201212:56 pm
          by gmehl

          Reply

          Keep in mind that Knight is still very young. By memory i don’t think he has turned 20 yet and was the youngest player in the league this season. Even though he has 1 year under his belt he is still pretty young.

          • Jul 12, 20121:02 pm
            by KLG

            Look, I’m not saying the guy is garbage. Maybe I should have posted what I love about Knight’s game before the sharks came out. I just expected more performances like today’s. He still had 6 TOs, though. Also, everyone on the court is young so that shouldn’t be an excuse.

    • Jul 12, 20121:18 pm
      by Mark

      Reply

      There seems to be a lot of these Knight haters around lately. I bet they all feel foolish after todays game. Yes it was summer league, but if you are going hate on him for his summer league games then you also have to acknowledge when he has great games in SL.

      19 pts, 14 asts, 3 rebs, 5-11FG, 9-10FT in 31 min. He pitched a perfect game for a PG.

      Anyone complaining about 6 asts, is out of their mind. 14:6 ast to turnover ratio really sucks…smh

  • Jul 12, 201212:49 pm
    by jacob

    Reply

    Daye tore it up on D. IF and thats a big IF he plays like this during the season we really need to find something to do with cv and prince.

  • Jul 12, 201212:58 pm
    by Crispus

    Reply

    I don’t know Chicago’s cap situation, but would they be looking for a Maggette or Prince to hold things down while Deng rehabs his wrist? I imagine either could do more or less what Salmons was doing for them a few years ago. If we could bundle in Bynum we could create some roster space.

    • Jul 12, 20121:03 pm
      by Reaction

      Reply

      Maybe a possible trade for a draft pick or something. But I think they were looking to clear cap space. I think the more realistic thing would be to try to get involved in the Orlando trades as well as any team looking to clear cap space.

    • Jul 12, 20121:15 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Bulls are looking to cut costs. They didn’t pick up Ronnie Brewer’s option and are supposedly shopping Korver. I assume if they wanted wing help, they would’ve just kept Brewer, who is cheap and fits their system defensively. They’d probably take any of the Pistons expiring contracts if Detroit were willing to take on one of their bad long-term deals to Boozer or Rip Hamilton (LOL) though.

      • Jul 12, 20121:30 pm
        by CNA5

        Reply

        Yeah… if the Bulls match to keep Asik, they are likely over the Luxury Tax Threshold- even without Korver and Brewer.
         
        2013-2014 looks to be even more likely that Chicago’s paying serious tax.  Noah, Rose, Boozer, and Deng alone account for almost the entire cap by themselves.
         

  • Jul 12, 20121:02 pm
    by Travis

    Reply

    The Pistons had the highest team score of any of the Orlando Summer League games with 93 points in 40 minutes of play. It was great to see 4 players in double digits, a double double, and 5 blocks by Daye. Other stats, including lack of fouls to rave about as well.

    Knight was the best player on the court and had 19 pts with 14 assists.

  • Jul 12, 20121:06 pm
    by Ray

    Reply

    actually Drummand has the right attitude, he isnt a target just because he is a lottery pick….Quinn is a 2nd rd pick he NEEDS to play at an extrmemly high level… and if you want an excuse wasnt Drummond dealing with finalizing his contract with the Detroit pistons the night before?

    Just like those PG’s going at knight… Night has rarely been in attack mode, if allowed to just go take over Knight could drop 30 points easy…

    But when you are running the same play over and over again, its easy to defend

  • Jul 12, 20121:10 pm
    by caligula moore

    Reply

    happy with the way drummond and knight played tody. Drummond picked his spots on offence and was a force on defence making sully work on both ends of the court. and knight decsion makeing was excellent i could do with out the 6to tho, and middleton finally lookes to have gotten out of that funk i want to see how he playes tomorrow before i juge tho

  • Jul 12, 20121:21 pm
    by Mark

    Reply

    Stat on Drummond’s defense:

    His defensive assignments thus far (Kanter, O’Quinn, Aldrich, Melo, and Sulliner) are a combined 12-30 FG (40%) against him in SL. Take out the one bad 1st half against O’Quinn, and the number drops to 8-26 (30%).

    His defense is as advertised so far folks, and his offense is more advanced than ppl thought as well.

    • Jul 12, 20121:23 pm
      by Mark

      Reply

      EDIT: Actually that total should be 12-34 FG (35%) overall against Drummond. Even more impressive.

  • Jul 12, 20121:24 pm
    by Brian

    Reply

    middelton is a great player it seems he just had to feel the team everyone doesnt catch on fast

  • Jul 12, 20121:36 pm
    by Sam

    Reply

    I love the way Kim English played. When his shot didn’t fall, he always hustled and found another way to contribute–charges, rebounds, etc.. He did not hesitate to battle for rebounds against players much bigger than him–sullinger, joseph. And he seems to be a good teammate in how he is taking responsibility for Drummond.

    I know Patrick may not like me making a comparison, but his play, maturity, and intangibles kind of remind me of how Lindsay hunter used to contribute during the “Go To Work” era. Even though English is not a point gaurd.

    • Jul 12, 20121:42 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Haha … I’m OK with comparisons, as long as they’re realistic. Totally fine with comparing English’s hustle and scrappiness to Lindsey Hunter’s contributions. Now, if you said “Kim English reminds me of a young Dave Bing …” that would’ve been a different story.

      • Jul 12, 20121:56 pm
        by Sam

        Reply

        Ha.

        Why didn’t Singler play?

        • Jul 12, 20122:04 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          They just gave him the day off to rest. I also suspect they wanted a longer look at Middleton.

      • Jul 12, 20121:59 pm
        by Victor

        Reply

        Too early to make Bing comparisons, but the way Kim speaks, he could be a fina politician some day.

        • Jul 12, 20122:08 pm
          by Sam

          Reply

          True. The kid is impressive. Do you think he is the first off the bench to give Stuck rest?

      • Jul 12, 20122:42 pm
        by RyanK

        Reply

        I like English’s attitude and his game.  He has the right mindset.  If he defends hard and makes outside shots, he’ll have a long NBA career and make a lot of money.

  • Jul 12, 20121:56 pm
    by Vic

    Reply

    Knight had a great game, gotta give it to him. I’ll take 14 assists and 6 tos anyday. Steve Nash gets a lot of assist and turnovers too. What’s important is that he’s learning how to orchestrate.
    Drummond is the real deal. Defense alone makes him a top 2 pick that we got at 9. He fits perfect with Monroe and is just getting more confident.

    If guys continue to improve, our big 3 in a couple years could be Monroe, Drummond, and Stuckey. I doubt Knight cracks the top 10 in his position, but if Stuckey continues to shoot better he could be in the convo. Knight has a chance too though if he gets close to 14 assists regularly.

  • Jul 12, 20122:19 pm
    by Derek

    Reply

    I was going to leave my observations of the game but KLG pretty much said exactly what I was going to say. I’ve watched all the summer league games this year and YES I too wasn’t impressed with Knight’s play overall (being that he is the ONLY all rookie 1st teamer playing in this summer league) Now before the box score watchers come out to rebuff that statement, I for the record do believe Knight will develope into a solid player (not sure he’ll reach all-star level though) and I understand that he is only 20 years old so you just don’t write a kid off because 4 summer league games, but I expected Knight to be the best player on the court every game, and I never got the sense that he was controlling the game as a PG. Too many times he came down the court and put up shots without passing once, too many ill advised 3s early in the shot clock, way too many turnovers, too many times he found himself stuck driving to the hole and trying to jump pass across the court, he got lured into 1 on 1′s too often (with lesser players that took it to him), he shot 0-7 from 3 this summer league so far (he did shoot the 3 very well when it counted last year though, but still I wanted to see him show growth from last year), sub 35% FG shooting in summer league for an all rookie 1st teamer is discouraging, especially when the guys he’s facing aren’t even NBA caliber and he’s an NBA starting PG. I feel like I’m killing Knight right now, but I’m just stating what I saw. Yes the expectations are higher for Knight then others and I feel like he didn’t show the expected improvement in these games. Now I do like to see that he’s obviously worked out hard this off season on his body (he is apparently a hard worker which is encouraging for a 20 year old). Again I haven’t given up on Knight and I think with his dedication to working he’ll improve, but I just simply hadn’t seen much improvement in his play from his rookie year in these summer league games yet. And somebody needs to teach Drummond what a Box Out is, all his rebounds are just him jumping higher than everyone but he NEVER puts his body into someone when the shot goes up in the air. Drummond’s hands are extremely impressive though, both offensively and defensively, and he’s so much faster than your average 7 footer. He is 18 and he will get intimidated early on by the NBA’s grown men but I believe he will be a great center sooner rather than later.

    • Jul 12, 20122:22 pm
      by Derek

      Reply

      I swear I included paragraphs in that reply (guess it was too long though)
      Great site, the comments are always great to read as well.

      • Jul 12, 20125:27 pm
        by MrBlockedShot

        Reply

        Couldn’t agree more with you on Knight’s game so far. Statistically they’re not bad, but not specially good either, keeping in ming the caliber of players he’s facing. I ‘ve watched all the games as well, and I expected him to dominate more, but i guess it’s difficult to play at your best when you get all your teammates changed and fight some guys with a lot to prove that keep coming at you. He will be fine, but it’s a concern to me wether he will ever get the proper PG skills: tempo controlling, good shot selection, good turnover-assist ratio, etc. Anyways for sure he’s going to be a key player for us in the years to come. 
        The same on Drummond, just practicing a few basic concepts as boxing out, keeping a body between the opponent and the rim,  would straight away improve his game a lot in terms of rebounding. The same applies to free throw percentage. Just a matter of time. He’ll take advantage of this offseason for sure.

  • Jul 12, 20122:39 pm
    by RyanK

    Reply

    Drummond is not very aggressive out there.  It’s almost like he has big man syndrome…he’s probably been told his whole life to be careful around people because he’s so big he might hurt someone.  I’m looking forward to him working out with Ben Wallace…hopefully Ben will give him a few knots on his head that make him realize he shouldn’t pussy foot around on the court.
     
    I like that his impact is coming defensively…that will get him court time right away.  He doesn’t really have an offensive game.  That can come with time…I’m sure he’ll want to score at some point.  But for now, going out and blocking shots, rebounding, and shutting down opponents is good enough.

  • Jul 12, 20122:39 pm
    by Steve W

    Reply

    I like knights resilience, he doesn’t seem to quit, he missed a few easy lay-ups this game then he would have had 25…

    Drummond seem to loaf at the end of the fourth quarter, his body language was disappointing, probably just tired with all the games hes playing.  When he is on top of his game, scoring, team defense, fast break, man, he is going to be something

    I think singler needs to get quicker to compete, but I think he has the skills to be a solid second option on offense with his post ability, smart decisions, and shooting

    I think we will make the playoffs this season

  • Jul 12, 20126:00 pm
    by DG

    Reply

    It seems like the in the last couple of games Drummond has been very aggressive in the first quarter and then disappears.  Yesterday he had 8 pts, 6 rebounds and 2 blocks in the first quarter alone.   The rest of teh game 2 pts and 2 rebs.  Today, he was very active early also, but it seemed that I saw less of him as the game progressed.  It makes me think that physical conditioning may be his biggest issue.  It must be  alot of work carrying around that huge frame!

    I really iked his defensive presence today.  He seemed to alter a lot of shots even if he didn’t block them.  I loved it when the Boston player was falling down and didn’t even bother to shoot because Drummond was right on top of him.  It was like he gave up.  That’s what I want to see in real NBA games.

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