Comments on: Meyers Leonard’s ceiling apparently the Pistons at No. 9 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/ Your Go-To Source For Pistons Coverage Fri, 24 May 2013 08:04:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: oats http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/comment-page-1/#comment-72222 oats Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:35:31 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/#comment-72222 This is maybe half true. Monroe was a reasonably average rebounder in the college game, but decidedly better than Leonard. Monroe was actually a very good defensive rebounder, and only kind of poor on the offensive boards. The thing was, Georgetown's offense had Monroe in pretty terrible position to get offensive boards. He was often in the high post in order to help run the offense, and he wouldn't have much time to get better positioning before a shot would go up. He went pro, and with facilitator responsibilities largely taken away from him, Monroe moved closer to the basket. This allowed him to bolster his offensive rebounding numbers and turned him into a rebounding machine. In both years as a pro, Monroe pulled in a full 2 more offensive rebounds as a pro than he was doing in college. All of this was a totally natural transition for a guy based on his role changing to fit his new offense.   Meyers Leonard is in a different situation. He isn't asked to play in the high post, or to help facilitate for his team. He actually is placed in a position to work for offensive rebounds. Despite that, he doesn't do it any better than how Monroe did in college. As the fact that he is a worse rebounder would indicate, he is a worse defensive rebounder than Monroe. So while Monroe only needed to improve on offensive boards to become good, Leonard needs to improve on all aspects of rebounding to be good. He's big, and athletic, and he is a shot blocker, so there is reason to think he can develop the skill. That is still very different from Monroe who already had the skill and just needed a role change to allow him to display it. I'm just not convinced Leonard will be effective on the glass at the next level considering he isn't better at it while at a school like Illinois that really needed him to be good at it. Throw in how raw his game is all around to my concerns about his rebounding, and I'm just not buying Leonard as one of the 9 best players for the Pistons. This is maybe half true. Monroe was a reasonably average rebounder in the college game, but decidedly better than Leonard. Monroe was actually a very good defensive rebounder, and only kind of poor on the offensive boards. The thing was, Georgetown’s offense had Monroe in pretty terrible position to get offensive boards. He was often in the high post in order to help run the offense, and he wouldn’t have much time to get better positioning before a shot would go up. He went pro, and with facilitator responsibilities largely taken away from him, Monroe moved closer to the basket. This allowed him to bolster his offensive rebounding numbers and turned him into a rebounding machine. In both years as a pro, Monroe pulled in a full 2 more offensive rebounds as a pro than he was doing in college. All of this was a totally natural transition for a guy based on his role changing to fit his new offense.
 
Meyers Leonard is in a different situation. He isn’t asked to play in the high post, or to help facilitate for his team. He actually is placed in a position to work for offensive rebounds. Despite that, he doesn’t do it any better than how Monroe did in college. As the fact that he is a worse rebounder would indicate, he is a worse defensive rebounder than Monroe. So while Monroe only needed to improve on offensive boards to become good, Leonard needs to improve on all aspects of rebounding to be good. He’s big, and athletic, and he is a shot blocker, so there is reason to think he can develop the skill. That is still very different from Monroe who already had the skill and just needed a role change to allow him to display it. I’m just not convinced Leonard will be effective on the glass at the next level considering he isn’t better at it while at a school like Illinois that really needed him to be good at it. Throw in how raw his game is all around to my concerns about his rebounding, and I’m just not buying Leonard as one of the 9 best players for the Pistons.

]]> By: Marvin Jones http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/comment-page-1/#comment-72176 Marvin Jones Wed, 13 Jun 2012 17:06:34 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/#comment-72176 Monroe wasn't a great rebounder in college either, so I wouldn't hold that against Leonard. Once he gets to the pros I think he'll rebound better. Monroe wasn’t a great rebounder in college either, so I wouldn’t hold that against Leonard. Once he gets to the pros I think he’ll rebound better.

]]> By: oats http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/comment-page-1/#comment-72169 oats Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:13:42 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/#comment-72169 I have mixed feelings about this. I'm not sold on Leonard, at all, even if my comments lately make me look like I'm on the Leonard bandwagon. He's my 10th favorite prospect in a draft we are selecting 9th in, so I wouldn't be thrilled with getting him. I understand why he's not a terrible gamble. He's a big man, he is athletic, and he has shown signs of improvement. He's a center, which I think is the hardest position to fill in basketball. He's also a solid free throw shooter, which suggests he will develop a jump shot in time. Most importantly, he is farthest along as a defender, and the Pistons desperately need a competent post defender. Despite all that, he doesn't rebound well. Maybe he learns how to do it, but I'm not confident of it. Big men who don't rebound are scary. Poor rebounding teams often struggle against good competition, and if your starting center isn't a good rebounder it becomes hard for that to be a strong point for your team. He could develop on the glass, but I really would rather not count on him doing something he hasn't shown the ability to do all that effectively. I like him enough that I wouldn't be upset with the pick, but I really wouldn't feel good about it either. I have mixed feelings about this. I’m not sold on Leonard, at all, even if my comments lately make me look like I’m on the Leonard bandwagon. He’s my 10th favorite prospect in a draft we are selecting 9th in, so I wouldn’t be thrilled with getting him. I understand why he’s not a terrible gamble. He’s a big man, he is athletic, and he has shown signs of improvement. He’s a center, which I think is the hardest position to fill in basketball. He’s also a solid free throw shooter, which suggests he will develop a jump shot in time. Most importantly, he is farthest along as a defender, and the Pistons desperately need a competent post defender. Despite all that, he doesn’t rebound well. Maybe he learns how to do it, but I’m not confident of it. Big men who don’t rebound are scary. Poor rebounding teams often struggle against good competition, and if your starting center isn’t a good rebounder it becomes hard for that to be a strong point for your team. He could develop on the glass, but I really would rather not count on him doing something he hasn’t shown the ability to do all that effectively. I like him enough that I wouldn’t be upset with the pick, but I really wouldn’t feel good about it either.

]]> By: Corey http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/comment-page-1/#comment-72165 Corey Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:52:14 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/#comment-72165 I still like Leonard, but Moultrie's combine athletic numbers are stellar. I don't think I'll cry if they take him either. Henson scored fairly poorly, except for his extreme length (highest standing reach at the combine- 9'4"). But he jumps almost as poorly as Moose. I still like Leonard, but Moultrie’s combine athletic numbers are stellar. I don’t think I’ll cry if they take him either. Henson scored fairly poorly, except for his extreme length (highest standing reach at the combine- 9’4″). But he jumps almost as poorly as Moose.

]]> By: oats http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/comment-page-1/#comment-72161 oats Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:20:44 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/#comment-72161 I keep defending Leonard... Strange. Anyways, another difference is easy to explain. Leonard has shown signs of development from last year. As a freshman he barely played and wasn't very effective. While far from a star player, this year he got play time and had huge jumps in productivity. Those jumps came not only in totals, but in per minute stats as well, which suggests that he actually did get better. I know per minute stats for the 8 minutes a game he played as a freshman don't really say anything conclusive, but when coupled with the fact that he earned the minutes this year it becomes reasonably safe to say Leonard is showing signs of improvement. That is an important thing to know about a project guy, that he is in fact making positive strides. Darko, meanwhile, was still consistently being buried on the bench in Europe. We had very few opportunities to see him. It was impossible to determine if he was actually good, none the less if he was improving. I do think that makes Leonard a better risk than Darko. That's especially true when you consider, as has already been pointed out, the relative strength of the draft at 9 this year and at 2 that year.   I should also acknowledge that your point about foreigners is mostly spot on. I do trust them less because I've not had an opportunity to judge them for myself. What's more, Euro league doesn't use rotations like we do in the states. They often spread their minutes out way more than we do. I also have no ability to know how good the strength of any given league is in Europe, I just don't pay enough attention to them. As a result, I can't even come to opinions from their stats.  I don't know what Euro Leonard would look like as a prospect because you also have to account for all the different leagues. He probably wouldn't have been at a top notch league in what was his freshman year, so I'd look for him to make the jump up to a better club in year 2. He'd also have done more against worse competition in that weaker league, so I'd be looking for him to remain mostly consistent while transitioning to higher level talent. Anyways, the end result is that Euro Meyers Leonard has a very different profile than American Meyers Leonard. I don't know exactly what the Euro version of him would look like, but I'd definitely have less faith in him since it would require I lean more on scouting reports and less on my own opinion of him. I think that's a natural reaction though.  All of that said, I don't dismiss every Euro. I loved Valanciunas and Biyombo last year. I still like those guys much more than Leonard this year too. I suspect that I'd see him more or less the same way, a huge gamble that I can understand the team taking. I keep defending Leonard… Strange. Anyways, another difference is easy to explain. Leonard has shown signs of development from last year. As a freshman he barely played and wasn’t very effective. While far from a star player, this year he got play time and had huge jumps in productivity. Those jumps came not only in totals, but in per minute stats as well, which suggests that he actually did get better. I know per minute stats for the 8 minutes a game he played as a freshman don’t really say anything conclusive, but when coupled with the fact that he earned the minutes this year it becomes reasonably safe to say Leonard is showing signs of improvement. That is an important thing to know about a project guy, that he is in fact making positive strides. Darko, meanwhile, was still consistently being buried on the bench in Europe. We had very few opportunities to see him. It was impossible to determine if he was actually good, none the less if he was improving. I do think that makes Leonard a better risk than Darko. That’s especially true when you consider, as has already been pointed out, the relative strength of the draft at 9 this year and at 2 that year.
 
I should also acknowledge that your point about foreigners is mostly spot on. I do trust them less because I’ve not had an opportunity to judge them for myself. What’s more, Euro league doesn’t use rotations like we do in the states. They often spread their minutes out way more than we do. I also have no ability to know how good the strength of any given league is in Europe, I just don’t pay enough attention to them. As a result, I can’t even come to opinions from their stats.  I don’t know what Euro Leonard would look like as a prospect because you also have to account for all the different leagues. He probably wouldn’t have been at a top notch league in what was his freshman year, so I’d look for him to make the jump up to a better club in year 2. He’d also have done more against worse competition in that weaker league, so I’d be looking for him to remain mostly consistent while transitioning to higher level talent. Anyways, the end result is that Euro Meyers Leonard has a very different profile than American Meyers Leonard. I don’t know exactly what the Euro version of him would look like, but I’d definitely have less faith in him since it would require I lean more on scouting reports and less on my own opinion of him. I think that’s a natural reaction though.  All of that said, I don’t dismiss every Euro. I loved Valanciunas and Biyombo last year. I still like those guys much more than Leonard this year too. I suspect that I’d see him more or less the same way, a huge gamble that I can understand the team taking.

]]> By: tarsier http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/comment-page-1/#comment-72114 tarsier Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:10:54 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/#comment-72114 The Okafor trade is a mega long shot. You seriously underestimate Ben Gordon's negative value. And apparently how much more valuable the number 10 pick is than 2nd rounders. You also apparently undervalue Stuckey since you even consider throwing yet another 1st rounder in there. And BG is not a backup plan for EG. Eric Gordon is staying in NO if hey want him. And nobody wants BG. Listen, you'd have to additionally incentivize someone to take BG for nothing. The Okafor trade is a mega long shot. You seriously underestimate Ben Gordon’s negative value. And apparently how much more valuable the number 10 pick is than 2nd rounders.

You also apparently undervalue Stuckey since you even consider throwing yet another 1st rounder in there.

And BG is not a backup plan for EG. Eric Gordon is staying in NO if hey want him. And nobody wants BG. Listen, you’d have to additionally incentivize someone to take BG for nothing.

]]> By: Jeremy http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/comment-page-1/#comment-72085 Jeremy Wed, 13 Jun 2012 07:11:19 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/#comment-72085 DraftExpress just released a <a href="http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Meyers-Leonard-Video-Scouting-Report-3963/" rel="nofollow">scouting video report</a> for Leonard. Worth watching. I like Leonard, but my main concern is that his stats are too similar to those of <a href="http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Cole-Aldrich-1250/stats/" rel="nofollow">Cole Aldrich</a> (except Aldrich was a far better blocker in college). Piston fans were once excited about the prospect of drafting that guy and he's been a non factor in his NBA career so far. At the end of the day this is all speculation. I hope the Joe D will bring in all these guys (Leonard, Zeller, Henson, Melo and um... Sullinger) to practice one day and have them go head to head. Though even this type of assessment has its flaws, it can provide the best indication of who can bring to the Pistons what they need. DraftExpress just released a scouting video report for Leonard. Worth watching. I like Leonard, but my main concern is that his stats are too similar to those of Cole Aldrich (except Aldrich was a far better blocker in college). Piston fans were once excited about the prospect of drafting that guy and he’s been a non factor in his NBA career so far.
At the end of the day this is all speculation. I hope the Joe D will bring in all these guys (Leonard, Zeller, Henson, Melo and um… Sullinger) to practice one day and have them go head to head. Though even this type of assessment has its flaws, it can provide the best indication of who can bring to the Pistons what they need.

]]> By: Tim Creamo http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/comment-page-1/#comment-72066 Tim Creamo Wed, 13 Jun 2012 04:43:44 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/#comment-72066 Yikes.  Wait it out, guys... Emeka?  Not worth the speculation. Yikes.  Wait it out, guys… Emeka?  Not worth the speculation.

]]> By: Lorenzo http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/comment-page-1/#comment-72032 Lorenzo Wed, 13 Jun 2012 01:50:22 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/#comment-72032 Lol, I swear some of these trade scenarios would have trouble going through in video games let alone in real life. In my *Yoda voice*...."strong is this delusion." Lol, I swear some of these trade scenarios would have trouble going through in video games let alone in real life. In my *Yoda voice*….”strong is this delusion.”

]]> By: joe d http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/comment-page-1/#comment-71968 joe d Tue, 12 Jun 2012 18:00:18 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/06/meyers-leonards-ceiling-apparently-the-pistons-at-no-9/#comment-71968 All you trade ideas are long shot trades none of them have a chance at happening they will keep grodan because he is a RFA they r gonna match any offer and pair him with anthony davis then they will draft another big at 10 have a a  young core to build on they arent gonna trade for bg All you trade ideas are long shot trades none of them have a chance at happening they will keep grodan because he is a RFA they r gonna match any offer and pair him with anthony davis then they will draft another big at 10 have a a  young core to build on they arent gonna trade for bg

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