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Andre Drummond – great pick and probable bust – makes draft night marvelous for himself and Pistons

NEWARK, N.J. – Andre Drummond is a great draft pick. He’s not a great player – or even necessarily a good player – and he might never become one.

Make sense?

Welcome to the NBA, where a team in a market like Detroit has few opportunities acquire elite talent outside the draft. Drummond is an elite talent, and in a six-player draft,* the Pistons got a premier prospect at No. 9.

*Anthony Davis, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Bradley Beal, Thomas Robinson, Harrison Barnes and Drummond

Of course, that comes with no guarantees – and if forced to make a binary success-or-failure call to day, I’d bet on Drummond busting. But nobody is forcing me, or anyone, to determine Drummond’s fate right now. I have no idea how this will play out. How could I?

Drummond, stylistically, fits the exact profile of an ideal Greg Monroe complement. Drummond  has the size and athleticism to protect the rim, defend post-ups and sky for dunks in ways that Monroe simply can’t.

The potential of that pairing made Drummond a no-brainer pick once he fell to No. 9, much the same way Monroe was a steal at No. 7 two years ago and the Pistons thought Brandon Knight was a steal at No. 8 last year. Greg Monroe is off to a great start, and the Pistons think Knight is too.

So, there was no way – as they told Drummond after his workout with the team earlier in the week – that the Pistons were going to stop their annual tradition of taking the player who slips from the high end of mock drafts to the middle of the lottery.*

*That the Pistons coveted Drummond was an open secret. “They had established that if Drummond dropped, they were going to pick him,” John Henson said. “If not, they were going to pick me. So, I knew it was coming up.”

Drummond, sitting at his green-room table, tucked his head toward his lap as David Stern began to announce the Raptors’ pick at No. 8. Once Stern declared Toronto had take Terrence Ross, Drummond lifted his head, leaned back and grinned. And then he started crying.

“My mom was holding my hand throughout the whole draft,” Drummond said. “’She was like, ‘We’re here, so just be patient. Your name is going to be called soon.’”

Once it was, Drummond mixed tears and that silly smile as he took the stage and shook David Stern’s hand. It was a genuine moment of joy from someone who has probably faced more questions than anyone in this draft.

From there, Drummond did everything possible to impress.

After drafted players leave the stage, they go through a tedious circuit of interviews. First ESPN, then radio, on-site reporters, Craig Sager, more radio, a conference call with hometown beat writers and more television. Plus, for someone like Drummond who played at nearby UConn, questions as he walked from station to station.

NBA workers escort each player throughout the process, at times handing off the player to another worker who handles the next step. To many players, the workers are anonymous signs to silently follow. Not Drummond. He exchanged introductions and handshakes with each one.

One woman introduced herself to Drummond and said that she’d be his bodyguard. As they waited together for yet another radio interview, she told him she could remove any pesky media (me) who was bothering him with questions between official stations. For his part, Drummond never took up the offer, and after completing the radio interview, he stood up.

“Where we off to, bodyguard?” Drummond asked.

It’s a question Drummond could ask the Pistons – though, not only are the Pistons charged with protecting him, they must challenge him. Drummond, at least based on what he said last night, is game.

“All the talk about my motor and not being able to play hard,” Drummond said, “will be put to rest immediately. I know that I’ll have my teammates – or my brothers now – to push me.”

Are you listening, Pistons? Detroit failed to properly develop players like Arron Afflalo, Amir Johnson and Carlos Delfino while they were here – and those are just the players I can safely list, because they thrived elsewhere. It’s impossible to tell whether players like Darko Milicic and Rodney White would have gone onto different career tracks if drafted elsewhere.

As, I spoke with Drummond, he gave polished answer after polished answer. He wasn’t angered or seeking revenge on the teams that passed on him. I asked Drummond whether it told him him anything that he went at the bottom of his draft range.

“Not at all,” Drummond said. “All I know is that I’m a hard worker. Like I said before, wherever I go, I’m going to work hard. So, it doesn’t matter – two, four, five – it doesn’t matter where I’m going to go. I’m just going to work my hardest.

“I’m trying to win games. It don’t matter what number you go. That’s all it is.”

As Drummond spoke calmly and clearly, proving himself a more mature orator than many professional athletes, it was easy to forget that Drummond is just 18 – except when sounded like a kid while chatting with Sager before their interview. Sager, in a pink jacket that only he could or would wear, said his shoes were made of ostrich.

“Ostrich?” Drummond gasped, in total awe of Sager’s worldly style.

A minute later, Drummond was back to sounding like he had everything together while Sager interviewed him.

At one point, flabbergasted by how different the Drummond I was seeing was from the Drummond I had heard about, I asked where all the questions about him came from.

“I don’t know,” Drummond said. “If I knew, I’d tell you.”

Then a thought occurred to me. Is Drummond a draft-night specialist in the way someone interviews well for jobs but doesn’t necessarily do jobs well? Had he been preparing for this night or preparing for an NBA career?

Drummond lost a lot of weight leading up to the draft, which he said improved his game. But if winning were as important to him as he said, why not put in the work to lose that weight while at UConn?

I’m not complaining. After all, I wrote too many posts explaining how the slightest rumblings in the top eight picks would affect Drummond’s availability at No. 9 to turn back now. I fully support this pick. It’s just a concern.

Shortly before leaving the Prudential Center, Drummond and his family and friends gathered behind the draft stage, an area where many drafted players were celebrating with their loved ones. As Drummond and his mom made arrangement for their group’s bus – perhaps, the bandwagon is already full – Drummond put on a pair of sunglasses.

For the record, I have zero issue with Drummond’s choice in eyewear. It’s silly to suggest that a humble and hard-working person wouldn’t wear sunglasses inside at night, and I’m not doing that. Drummond is entitled to dress how he wants in his own time. I’m just saying that image of Drummond wearing those sunglasses in the backstage area doesn’t mesh with the professional image he gave off earlier in the night. Maybe the Pistons’ future with him is a little dimmer than it appeared for most of the evening.

Or maybe the future is just too darn bright.

155 Comments

  • Jun 29, 201212:22 pm
    by Shane

    Reply

    I hope he is not a bust. I don’t think he will be like Kwame Brown because he has man hands and not baby hands like Kwame has. He seems to be pretty motivated and wants to show what he can do as well.

    • Jun 29, 20121:21 pm
      by frankie d

      Reply

      agreed.  
      having good hands is the difference between him being kwame brown and a good rebounder/low post defender who can go get the ball off the offensive boards.
      i don’t think pistons’ fans will have to get used to easy baskets bouncing off of drummond’s hands as he stands underneath the basket staring at his hands, as happened constantly with kwame.

    • Jun 29, 20121:56 pm
      by Todd

      Reply

      Here is my question, would anyone have referred to Kwame Brown (or Darko) as a bust if he were drafted #9, instead of #1? That to me is the prime reason that Dan’s read about this being a great pick is right on.

      When you can get a guy that has this kind of athletic ability and size, mixed with at least a decent understanding of basketball, you don’t let him go this far down in the draft. To me, I see Amir Johnson with about 70 extra pounds – and I will take that!

      • Jun 29, 20122:24 pm
        by Patrick Hayes

        Reply

        Part of what will also define Drummond is how well the bigs taken after him do. He could be an OK NBA player, but if Henson or Leonard or even Zeller turn out to be much better players than him, the pick will be criticize, probably by the some of the same people in the comments here right now who are saying that there was absolutely no red flags whatsoever about the guy.

  • Jun 29, 201212:28 pm
    by Chris

    Reply

    Dan,
        Are you a Pistons fan? All of your articles just seem to have a negative tone… This kid is a Steal at 9 and the culture there creating in the locker room with the high character driven guys will help this kid along… He will be a great player.

    • Jun 29, 201212:34 pm
      by Marvin Jones

      Reply

      My thoughts exactly, sounds like he’s trying to find anything(eyeglasses, really) to turn into a negative and you’re right, his articles lately have been extremely negativve and full of venom. It seems to me like he has a beef with Joe and doesn’t want to put a positive spin on anything. 

    • Jun 29, 201212:46 pm
      by bugsygod

      Reply

      OMG yes!  i have been saying this for months!! We get the guy EVERYBODY wanted outside of Davis, and now he’s going to BUST?!?  WOW! He’s 18 years old!  He’s coming to a championship organization, with a very good hard working coach!  Players like knight, monroe, jerbko, prince to show him how to be a professional and work hard!  BUT you talk about the guy wearing sunglasses?!?!  This is prolly the greatest night of this kids life!  Let him live it up a little..sheeesh!

      • Jun 29, 20121:13 pm
        by Patrick Hayes

        Reply

        I want to believe you are not as dumb as your comments sound. I really do. But I have a hard time.

        Go back and read the first six or so paragraphs of this post. You know, the ones where Dan says that Drummond was one of the six most talented players in this draft. Or go back and read any number of posts he’s written over the last month where he was openly rooting for Drummond to fall to the Pistons.

        He did not say he is going to be a bust. He said that it is a possibility. Anyone who follows the draft knows it’s a possibility. He was terrible at UConn. He’s a prospect with immense physical tools and a low level of basketball skill right now. His own former teammate at UConn, Jeremy Lamb, was asked the other day whether Drummond would be a good player. Lamb said, “If he wants to work at it.” That’s hardly a ringing endorsement, right?

        It’s good to be happy with this pick. Drummond has immense, immense potential and could be one of the top players to come out of this draft. But you have blinders on if you’re ignoring the numerous red flags that led to him falling to nine. A center who is a freak athlete, who is already 280 pounds, who projects as a defensive force if he develops, would not fall to nine in a fairly mediocre draft if there weren’t serious questions as to whether he could live up to his potential. Pointing this out is not being overly negative. It is taking a realistic approach to a player who was a high risk/high reward pick.

        • Jun 29, 20122:46 pm
          by Haan

          Reply

          In fairness, the headline does announce that Drummond is a “probable” bust.  That’s much stronger than saying he’s a “possible” bust, which is something that could be said about any pick.  Saying that someone’s a possible bust is trivially true; claiming someone’s a “probable” bust is a strong statement, bound to solicit resistance (and I say that as one who agrees with Dan’s multileveled assessment).

          • Jun 29, 20122:53 pm
            by Dan Feldman

            As I explain in the article, that’s in a binary sense — bust or not. Would I be surprised if Drummond is a success? Not in the slightest. I think there’s a >50% chance he’s a bust, though.

          • Jun 29, 20127:53 pm
            by tarsier

            Exactly, every pick is a possible bust. Drummond has more red flags than most. So he is a probable bust. But still the right pick.

        • Jun 29, 20123:05 pm
          by bugsygod

          Reply

          In this article Dan states that if he was betting he would say “Drummond would bust”.  Why? Because of who he is, no motor, no refined offensive game?  What is a bust in Dan’s opinion?? That he is not an a hall of famer? all-star? starter?  You state to me show facts etc.  Where are Dan’s facts?? Then he says that because he wears sunglasses it doesnt show the “professional image he showed throughout the night”.  Did he see wade, durant, westbrook throughout the playoffs?? They were wearing some of the craziest outfits for there “podium game”.  Does this make them look bad??  NO ONE has said Drummond has “character” issues, they state does he have desire to be great issues.  So i dont know how wearing sunglasses has to do with professionalism. 
          *
          Patrick you read this article and state it comes across positive, so saying the guy will bust and he has questionable professionalism does not sound too positive to me.  So that is why i deem Dan & Patrick to be negative in their columns on this site.  So in one breath he is the “one of the most talented players” but he is going to bust? In every scouts view big man in the nba take time to develop.  At uconn, he was playing with two trigger happy guards that wanted to be the “man”.  His coach was gone for 2months of the season.  He came there as a 17yr old.  They just won the national title BUT lost the hear n soul of the team in Kemba.  That is ALOT of obstacles for him to cross especially as a SEVENTEEN/EIGHTEEN yr old kid.  To me Drummond came to the Perfect situation here in Detroit.  He has vet leader in prince, hard working knowledgable good coach frank, an owner looking to put best product out there and win! 
          *
          The reason i continually come to this site is there is ALOT of Pistons content that you provide…ALOT!  So i look forward to coming here.  I have never called either one of you names…NEVER!  But if i disagree with ANYTHING you guys write i get called names. As you can see with the other commenters I am not the only one feeling a negative tint to your columns.  I look at Pistons with good young talent..monroe, knight, jerbko, stuckey, drummond. Great Coaching in L. Frank. Good managment in Joe D.  Good & engaged ownership in Gores… We will be contenders again and i look forward to that day!

          • Jun 29, 20123:27 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            First of all, that’s a fine response. That’s exactly the type of response that I would read, consider the points you made, and respond civilly to.

            Also, a past issue I’ve had with your comments has been you questioning the credibility/knowledge of individual writers. For example, you’ve frequently brought up my age (which you don’t even know, incidentally) and suggested that I’m too young to know the history of the franchise, etc. I think that’s unfair, and I think that’s a shot at my credibility. So to you, that might not be name-calling or a slight. But to me, as a writer, as someone who puts a lot of work into what I write, that’s worse than a name-call to me, and admittedly, I’ve responded angrily to you in the past when I should’ve probably controlled my temper better. Anyway, onto some of the points you made:

            “In this article Dan states that if he was betting he would say “Drummond would bust”.  Why?”

            Well, I think if you look at the history of the draft lottery, you would be safer betting that anyone of the players would be busts rather than All-Stars or better. The lottery traditionally produces far more players who don’t pan out than do. So, if you were betting on a prospect panning out or not, it’s probably a safer assumption that he won’t than he will. That’s not saying that anyone is rooting for that outcome at all. It’s just a reality. A large percentage of high draft picks just don’t work out. The main criticism of Drummond all year has been that he doesn’t work particularly hard — scouts have said it, UConn coaches alluded to it and even his teammate, Lamb, mentioned it. That’s why people worry he could fail to live up to his potential and become one of the many lottery picks who doesn’t make it. Doesn’t mean he necessarily won’t either or that he’s a bad kid, it’s just being real about the odds.

            “What is a bust in Dan’s opinion?? That he is not an a hall of famer? all-star? starter?”

            I won’t speak for Dan on that, but I’ll instead ask you a question. Obviously, no one is saying that if he’s not a HOF player, he’ll be a bust. But what is your expectation? What is the minimum standard he needs to hit for you for this to be a good pick? For me, it’s a good pick if he develops into a starting center who blocks shots, rebounds and can stay on the court 35ish minutes per game. At UConn, because he has a hard time defending without fouling and because his conditioning as bad, he could only stay on the court about 20 minutes per game. It’s not out of the question for him to improve to the point where he’s a reliable, big minutes starter, but it’s also not an easy task, so I would assume it’s a given he can get to that productive 30-35 minute level when he doesn’t yet have a history showing he’s headed in that direction. Again, I am openly rooting for him to get there and thought he was a fantastic pick. But I’m also realistic about the significant amount of improvement he needs. I don’t see that as being negative, just trying to be realistic and keep expectations in check.

            “Then he says that because he wears sunglasses it doesnt show the “professional image he showed throughout the night””

            Again, I’ll let Dan speak for himself there, but I didn’t read this necessarily as Dan saying Drummond was unprofessional, just that he presented himself differently behind the scenes. For the record, Dan didn’t say he presented himself like a jerk or that his character was bad. In fact, a lot of this story mentioned how friendly and nice Drummond was to people.

            “Patrick you read this article and state it comes across positive”

            I don’t know if it comes off positive or negative. I think there are things in the article that are definitely very positive and make me like Drummond a lot. But I think it’s balanced because it presents the very real reasons that exist that a talent like Drummond, who was once considered a possible 1 or 2 pick in this draft before the college season started, slipped all the way to nine. I think it’s fair to discuss those things, which Dan did. But to say that this article is only negative, I just don’t think that’s true. Go up and read it again. There are several passages in there that both talk about this being a great pick and talk about what a nice, mature kid Drummond comes across as.

            “So in one breath he is the “one of the most talented players” but he is going to bust?”

            He doesn’t say he is ‘going’ to be a bust. He says he ‘could’ be a bust. That’s a huge, huge difference.

            “To me Drummond came to the Perfect situation here in Detroit.”

            Dan has a full paragraph in that post that says basically that same thing.

            Like I said, my aim is not to call names or fight with people who disagree with me down here. But, as you have in the past, when you have said things like I’m too young to understand something or haven’t watched the team long enough or whatever, I take those as shots at my credibility, and it makes it harder for me to respond civilly. Your comment above was fair. I didn’t agree with some of what you said, but I didn’t read it and get mad either. You defended what you said and you didn’t act like the writer was somemoron who doesn’t know anything about basketball. Those types of comments will always, always be responded to in a positive way.

          • Jun 29, 20123:37 pm
            by Dan Feldman

            What is a bust in Dan’s opinion?? That he is not an a hall of famer? all-star? starter?

            For Drummond, with his physical tools, he’ll probably be judged a bust if he doesn’t become a top-25 starter among the 60 starting power forwards and centers in the league.

            Do you think Walter Sharpe was a bust? Austin Daye? DaJuan Summers? A lot of Pistons fan would. 

            Did he see wade, durant, westbrook throughout the playoffs?? They were wearing some of the craziest outfits for there “podium game”.  

            Those three have nothing to prove about how seriously they take basketball and how mature they are. 

            “saying the guy will bust”

            I never said this or anything close to it. Every player drafted last night has a chance to become a bust. Each player’s odds sit somewhere between 0 and 100 percent. Probable means > 50 percent. I think Drummond falls above 50 percent (not much. Low 50s somewhere). Thus, Drummond is a probable bust. It doesn’t mean I’m declaring that he will.

          • Jun 29, 20124:54 pm
            by bugsygod

            Patrick First – 1. Dan states he BETS HE WILL BE A BUST, the headline is PROBABLE BUST.  So thats basically a buzzkill right there… which i call negative. 
            2. To me a “bust” is a person out of the league or is a marginal rotation player drafted in the lottery…darko, thabeet,kwame, rodney white, tszvilli(denver guy before darko).  I think AT THE LEAST Drummond will be a productive starter. Meaning a guy who can start for your championship team, maybe not all-star, but perkins, chandler, type guy AT LEAST,  My reasons being talent(of course) and character.  NBAtv did a nice piece on him before the draft, showing his home family life. His mom is from Jamica and real close knit family, thats why in his first comments about coming to detroit he mentioned “family” and “brothers”.  I think ppl look at him at 16, 17 yrs old and make a judgment about his work ethic.  Which come on, when i was 16 i hated to do dishes and clean my room. (S/N he didnt have problem with foul trouble at UConn, draftexpress said that is one of the better things able to block shots without fouling)
            3. The sunglasses comment again to me was unnecessary, if your not making a judgment on it, why mention it? (very very subjective comment)
            4. Didnt say “could” be a bust, said PROBABLE bust
            5. Reason i mention your age, it goes to “lack of experience”.  Not in your writing, but in your knowleage of the Pistons.  Im an older guy so i remember the dark times of Pistons basketball, BUT this is one of the top 7 franchises in the league and sometimes your columns come off “they dont know what they are doing”.  Well they been doing this a long time and have been very very succesfull.
            Dan
            1. Dont know about Daye yet, but yes sharpe and summers..BUSTS!  So your definition of bust is out of the league?? WOW so there is a great than 50% chance he will be out of the league?  I just dont agree with that.. too talented w/ character
            2. Agree totally those guys have nothing to prove about maturity, but i dont think fashion determines a players professionlism
            3. Again, the headline of his article is PROBABLE BUST and you state again over 50% of bust.  Thats not saying he will bust??

          • Jul 2, 20123:27 pm
            by Dan Feldman

            1. Dont know about Daye yet, but yes sharpe and summers..BUSTS!  So your definition of bust is out of the league?? WOW so there is a great than 50% chance he will be out of the league?  I just dont agree with that.. too talented w/ character

            No. My point is that whether a player is a bust is determined on a sliding scale based on where he’s drafted and what is expected of him.

            2. Agree totally those guys have nothing to prove about maturity, but i dont think fashion determines a players professionlism

            I don’t either and have said that multiple times.

            3. Again, the headline of his article is PROBABLE BUST and you state again over 50% of bust.  Thats not saying he will bust??

            No. I don’t know whether Drummond will be a bust. I think it’s more likely than not, though barely. Imagine a container with six blue marbles and four red marbles. If you reach your hand in and blindly pick a marble, it’s more likely to be blue. That doesn’t mean you say it will be blue.

    • Jun 29, 20121:08 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      @Chris:

      Your comment is not an argument. You said this:

      “This kid is a Steal at 9″

      Dan said this:

      “ the Pistons got a premier prospect at No. 9.”

      You said this:

      “ the culture there creating in the locker room with the high character driven guys will help this kid along”

      Dan said this:

      “The potential of that pairing made Drummond a no-brainer pick once he fell to No. 9, much the same wayMonroe was a steal at No. 7 two years ago and the Pistons thought Brandon Knight was a steal at No. 8 last year. Greg Monroe is off to a great start, and the Pistons think Knight is too.”

      So essentially, your comment just restated some of the same things Dan said in his post.

    • Jun 29, 20121:14 pm
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      Patrick beat me to responding to most of these, but one more.

      “doesn’t want to put a positive spin on anything.”

      “Andre Drummond is a great draft pick.”

    • Jun 29, 20121:22 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      For Chris, Marvin and bugsygod:

      Check out the comment from Jason below. THAT is how you argue against a point in an intelligent, productive way.

      You guys resort to vague, “you guys are haters” or “you guys are always negative” or, sometimes, just create things that the writer never said and put words in their mouth.

      Compare that to what Jason did. He picked out a passage and said, “This particular example is unfair, and here is the reason why.”

      If you want to make arguments that are taken seriously, that we pay attention to or respect, that is how you will go about doing it. What you guys are doing doesn’t foster any kind of discussion, it is not interesting to read and it just drives a wedge between writer/reader that doesn’t need to exist.

      For example, if you come to me, and say, “Patrick, here’s a specific example of where I think your argument went off the tracks or doesn’t make sense, and here’s why I think that,” I can respond to that civilly and intelligently. I can say, “OK, maybe you’re right, I hadn’t thought of that.” Or, I can provide more evidence to explain what I was getting at.

      If you say, “Your articles are always negative and you’re a hater and I hate you,” the only way I can respond to that is tell you to go screw yourself. Maybe that’s all you’re looking for — you hate the site and want to be annoying to writers you hate. If that’s what you want, have at it. I don’t really care.

      But I assume, since all of you comment regularly here, that you aren’t just trolling. So I’m begging, if you have problems with this or any piece here, please be specific. Please actually read the entire thing before commenting. And please cut out the kindergarten “do you even like the pistons you should totally only write postive stories” bullshit.

  • Jun 29, 201212:47 pm
    by bugsygod

    Reply

    See Dan & Patrick, it aint just me!

    • Jun 29, 20121:02 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Again, if you don’t like the content on this site, you are welcome to go read another site. I don’t think my opinion on the Pistons is the only one that matters. I don’t expect everyone to agree with my opinions. I don’t expect everyone to like me, like my writing or think I know what I’m talking about. But this is a hobby for me. I do it because I love to write, I love the NBA and I’ve followed this team for over 20 years now. So you and everyone else are entitled to your opinions. But — and I’m not saying this to be a jerk — what you think of my writing is really irrelevant to me. If I don’t like someone’s writing, I have a simple solution. I don’t read them. I really don’t understand your need to continuously show up to a place where you don’t like the content. If you don’t like it, fine, you’re entitled to not like it. But I hope you don’t think that you constantly saying you don’t like it is going to make me or Dan or anyone else say, “wow … I should really change my opinion to be more in line with this stranger on the internet.”

  • Jun 29, 201212:47 pm
    by Jason Fry

    Reply

    For such a good write-up, the last paragraph just seems unecessary and out of place.

    “Wearing Sunglasses backstage doesn’t mesh with his professional image”?

    Really? I’m just having a hard time figuring out how sunglasses has anythign to do with his professionalism..

    Great pick though, I too was more than impressed with his interviews… He may take a couple years to figure out the NBA, but I have high hopes for this kid, and think this will be a turning point for the Pistons.

    • Jun 29, 20121:03 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Unlike the two bozos above, I think this is a fair criticism of the piece. Dan and I don’t always agree 100 percent, and that particular passage, to me, was out of bounds.

      But overall, I think the rest of his piece was fair.

      • Jun 29, 20123:28 pm
        by Marvin Jones

        Reply

        Once again the name calling thing I just don’t get, why am I a bozo? I frankly don’t pull out passages because I don’t know how to do it.  I know it’s your site and all but the name calling and the “if you don’t like it go somewhere else”, attitude seems a little immature to me. If you’re treated with civility then you should return in kind, no one called you any names so why do you resort to name calling? Just thought you guys were bigger than that, I guess I was wrong.

        • Jun 29, 20123:41 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          Go read your initial comment again, Marvin. You vaguely alluded to Dan’s articles that are ‘full of venom’ and you accused him of having an ax to grind against an organization.

          Those are serious accusations to make against a writer. If you’re going to make them, you should back them up. You continually make comments like that here, that are both accusatory and vague.

          I have no problem with accusations, but if you’re going to accuse someone of some serious credibility issue, then have the decency to provide the evidence within your comment so that the person being accused can at least fairly respond.

          • Jun 29, 20124:30 pm
            by Marvin Jones

            In my opinion it was full of venom and negativity, there was no particular passage just the tone of the entire article. That hardly necessitate you calling me a bozo. I did not and have never called you or Dan a name, it just seems immature to resort to name calling when you are faced with a critical comment. The evidence to me was the article itself which other posters seem to agree with that it was overly negative. You can express your displeasure without name calling since I expressed mine without it. 

          • Jun 29, 20124:35 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            But that’s exactly what I’m getting at … if you read through the comments, yes some people agree with you. But there are other people who don’t think it was negative, either. So for you to say ‘it’s full of venom and negativity,’ well, you have to explain that better.

            For example, does he ever say Drummond was a bad pick? No. In fact, he calls him a great pick. Does he ever say Drummond is a bad person? No. In fact, he relates several stories that show that Drummond seems to be a really nice guy.

            Some people agreeing with you isn’t evidence that you’re right. I could just as easily say, “Well, nuetes, Frankie D and Alan, among others, agree with me, so I’m right.” That wouldn’t be a good argument for my point of view, and I wouldn’t make it.

            Also, if you think Dan’s post is negative, that’s a fine point of view, even if I disagree. What I don’t think is fair, and what made me mad in your initial comment, was line suggesting that he’s got some mysterious ax to grind against Dumars or the organization. That’s a really unfair accusation to make with no specific evidence to back it up.

    • Jun 29, 20121:31 pm
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      Jason, wearing sunglasses backstage has nothing to do with his professionalism, and I hope that’s clear. It has to do with his image. Here’s the sentence in full:

      “I’m just saying that image of Drummond wearing those sunglasses in the backstage area doesn’t mesh with the professional image he gave off earlier in the night.”

      In many circles leading up to the draft, Drummond’s image has been a guy who won’t take the NBA seriously, won’t work hard and won’t play hard. He did a remarkable job of combating that image last night as he did his interviews.

      Unfairly or not, he could not have combated that image in the same while wearing sunglasses indoors. Many would not have taken his eloquent words seriously.

  • Jun 29, 201212:59 pm
    by Oracle

    Reply

    Have a hard time seeing how this kid will be a bust.  He’s far less likely to bust than a rail thin PF like Henson.  How many frontcourt starters in the NBA are that thin?

    As for Drummond, he’s already an elite post defender and offensive rebounder.  Even if his offensive game doesn’t improve a lick, he’ll have a place in the NBA because of his size and athleticism. 

    I see him averaging about 10-10-2 after a couple seasons, where his offense comes off of a couple put backs, fast break dunks, and dump offs from driving piston guards.  He could score close to double digits without ever taking a jump shot or having a play called for him.  All he has to do is be rebound and defend consistently enough to stay on the floor, and he’ll get his chances.

    • Jun 29, 20121:02 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      “Have a hard time seeing how this kid will be a bust.”

      There’s a reason he slipped to nine, no?

      • Jun 29, 20121:18 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        sure there are fears about drummond.  well-founded ones, actually.  but lots of supposedly smart people had some of the same fears about monroe, which is why he slid also.
        they said the same things about deandre jordan, which is why he slid all of the way into the second round.
        if you go back and read the draft profiles of jordan and check his college stats, they are eerily similar to drummond’s.
        i get on dumars’ case all of the time, but i think he got this one right.  
        it took courage to take monroe, it took courage to take drummond.  i give that to joe.
        at the very least, i think he’ll be a deandre jordan-type shotblocker/defender.  (his detractors seem to conveniently ignore that he did establish himself as an elite low post defender in college.  one of the best.  and for a young college kid, that is pretty impressive.)  
        i’ll gladly take that type of player.
        and if he gets his act together at all, who knows how good he’ll be.
        the fact that he has a great set of hands will take him out of kwame brown bust territory.

        • Jun 29, 20121:23 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          Monroe was actually productive in college though, Drummond wasn’t. So yeah, he had the ‘motor/desire/work ethic’ questions, but at least he had proven he could be effective. Drummond has those questions AND has yet to prove he can be a very effective player.

          I think and hope he’ll get there, but I also have no problem with anyone pointing out the red flags that caused an elite talent to drop to nine in a so-so draft.

          • Jun 29, 20122:08 pm
            by frankie d

            sure, he is a huge gamble.  and he has huge red flags.  
            but i do think that most of his detractors are ignoring the fact that he showed that he could be a solid or very strong defensive presence in college.  that was the one thing he did well. and the numbers show that fact.
            i saw a stat over on draftexpress, under the tweets, on his page, which seemed to indicate that he allowed the fewest points per possession of any low post defender in the country.  that is pretty impressive and much more so for a freshman to be so adept at guarding the low post.  
            his 2.7 blocks per game is also impressive, expecially when you consider that he played 28 minutes per game.
            when i saw him play, he appeared to be extremely active defensively – sometimes too active as he seemed to stray out of position often – but that is exactly the kind of range that the team needs in a player next to monroe.
            if he can show the same commitment and ability in the pros and just hit the boards and run the floor, he will contribute immediately.  
            and as i’ve posted before, the kwame brown comparisons simply are inappropriate, because of the simple difference in their ability to catch the ball.  it seemed that kwame, as his career proceeded, became less offensively aggressive because he so often ended up looking like a fool as balls bounced off his hands.   he appeared to be content doing what he did well: defend big guys in the low post.
            i don’t think drummond will have that problem.  
            but the great thing about the nba is that we always end up seeing how the predictions will turn out.
            this pistons’ fan is truly excited about the chance to see this young player on the court.

          • Jun 29, 20122:27 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            “but i do think that most of his detractors…”

            See … I don’t even really think there are that many detractors. Admitting he has significant weaknesses isn’t saying he’s a bad pick. I think he has the potential to be great and it also wouldn’t surprise me if he failed to live up to expectations. I still think he was a fantastic pick at that point in the draft. I’d probably be less enthused if they took him at 2 or 3 or 4.

          • Jun 29, 20123:58 pm
            by frankie d

            “See … I don’t even really think there are that many detractors. ”
            have you been over to detroit bad boys?
            the guys who post there are definitely not a fan of this pick.
            fwiw, i don’t put dan or you in the category of being detractors.
            in fact, i’m somewhat puzzled by the reaction to this post.  i certainly didn’t find it to be a truly negative piece by any stretch.
            i thought it represented a nice piece of work that showed several different sides of a kid who is obviously very complex.  i recalled seeing an interview of him last year, before the BB season and being extremely impressed.  he’s definitely more than your typical dunderheaded gym ratt.  for better pr worse.
            but, that is just my humble opinion.

          • Jun 29, 20124:05 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            Haha, OK, good call. There are some detractors. But the DBB guys are a different breed. Although I really enjoyed Kevin Sawyer giving Sam Presti an F for getting a guy who would’ve been a top three pick last year at 28 in this year’s draft. That was great.

      • Jun 29, 20121:21 pm
        by Oracle

        Reply

        He’s a project.  Third best big on the board, at least, and very frequently listed ahead of the wings and guards picked ahead of him.  Perhaps the most reputable talent evaluating draft site, draftexpress, had him at number 2 on the big board. 

        Teams draft for need, draft for immediate production, or just flat out miss sometimes.  Does not mean he’s more likely to bust, simply because a few teams didn’t pick him.  Like the cavs and toronto, who passed on him because they wasted picks in the last draft on big men and couldn’t afford to wait for another big man to develop.  Everyone else had more pressing needs on the wings.

        • Jun 29, 20121:38 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          A lot of places had him at two.

          The better question: would you have taken him at two, considering both that, A. Drummond was nowhere near as productive in college as Davis, T Rob, MKG, Beal, etc.; B. Drummond had numerous questions about his desire to get better, even from a college teammate, Jeremy Lamb, just prior to the draft; and C. Virtually everyone in the T Rob-MKG-Beal group is considered a lock to be at the very least a serviceable starter in the league while the spectrum on Drummond is everywhere from All-Star to complete bust?

          At nine, Drummond is a no-brainer. At 2-3-4 where other good prospects are there? Even if he has immense potential, it’s a much tougher call to make that pick.

          • Jun 29, 20121:50 pm
            by Oracle

            Why should I evaluate him as if I picked him at 2?  I’m not evaluating him in terms of whether he’ll fulfill every aspect of his potential and dominate the league, I’m just questioning what it would take to be a bust at 9.  To me, a bust is a player who doesn’t meet expectations or is out of the league early.

            My whole argument has been that at 9 to the Pistons, the expectations should be relatively low (he won’t be expected to carry the offense, which is good since he doesn’t have an offensive game yet), and the possibilities of him falling out of the league are pretty low given his size and athleticism (even Darko and Kwame are still around, spot starting for teams). 

            At 2, you may want more than someone who can only play defense right away.  Then Drummond has bust potential.  At 9 for detroit, I would not consider it a bust if he only ever remains a defensive specialist. 

          • Jun 29, 20122:00 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            I’m just saying that when you have options available like you do at pick two, it’s dicier to take a project. Teams do it sometimes — Olowokandi No. 1 overall, for example — but if it blows up, it’s often more ruinous because of who was available.

            At 9, let’s say Drummond doesn’t reach his potential (don’t take this as me saying he won’t, just for example). If he doesn’t, and other guys in that range — say Henson, Zeller, Leonard — are only solid rotation players who you missed out on, it’s easier to justify taking that risk there than at two. That’s all I meant by that.

          • Jun 29, 20122:07 pm
            by Oracle

            I’m not even saying other teams ahead of the pistons made bad picks by not taking Drummond.  As Dan says in the title of the article, he’s a great pick for Detroit, (partially because he’s there at 9).  I’m questioning the rest of the title, “probable bust.”  At 9, that statement just doesn’t make sense.

          • Jun 29, 20124:57 pm
            by PistonsFan22

            Jeremy Lamb didn’t say Drummond didn’t work hard. He was quoted saying Drummond’s NBA potential “depends on if he wants to work.” I take it to mean that Lamb thinks he needs to keep working on his game to become a good NBA player. People are taking that quote way too far by claiming he meant Drummond does not work hard. He simply reiterated what people know already about Drummond, to reach his potential he has to work hard. Lamb was an awful interview during his NBA interviews I wouldn’t take a vague comment like this too far. He also said during the same interview “I believe he’s going to work hard, develop post moves, I think he can be a great pro.”

          • Jun 29, 20125:03 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            Lamb didn’t say Drummond was unwilling to work. But here’s the full context of the quote:

            “It depends on if he wants to work. He’s a great athlete. He can jump. He can block shots. He can rebound. I always say, it’s funny, we will have an early practice at like 8 AM, and everyone is trying to get warmed up and stuff. He’ll just come out and do a windmill to warm up. His bounce is amazing. I believe he’s going to work hard, develop post moves, I think he can be a great pro.”

            That implies that Drummond is used to getting by because he has freakish physical gifts that few possess. Lamb is confident, it seems, that Drummond will develop the work ethic, but I think it is obvious by that quote that Lamb is at least insinuating that it wasn’t where it needed to be last season, and Drummond’s so-so season would seem to back that up.

          • Jun 29, 20125:34 pm
            by PistonsFan22

            Good I’m glad we got the entire quote out there. Personally I think it means nothing about his work ethic if anything it implies Lamb believes in Drummond’s ability to work hard. However there is the quote, decide what Lamb was meaning on your own fellow Pistons fans.
            Lamb is certainly not a wordsmith and I understand why people want to make something out of this but Lamb was simply saying he was has to continue to work at his game in my opinion. Lamb thinks it’s funny how unique he is because most guys come out and warm up, get loose. Then they see this monster come right out on the court and throw down a windmill dunk right away without even getting warm.
            I also think Drummond played at a level higher than so so. His interior defense was up there with any other player in the NBA draft and he was just  baby. He earned several Big East rookie of the week honors.

          • Jun 29, 20129:47 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            I certainly don’t think Lamb was slamming Drummond. In fact, he was trying to compliment him. But he was also basically saying that Drummond is used to walking into the gym and being bigger, stronger and jumping higher than everyone, so when you have those physical advantages, you just inherently don’t get pushed as hard by inferior competition.

            I don’t think Lamb’s point was that Drummond is incapable of working hard. Just that he’s never been in a situation where athletically, size-wise and skill-wise, he will be on level footing with the players around him or, in some cases, not as big or strong or able to jump as high. Again, that comment by Lamb isn’t really a slam, but it does get at the fact that he’s going to get pushed more than he’s ever been pushed before.

        • Jul 2, 20123:36 pm
          by Dan Feldman

          Reply

          As Dan says in the title of the article, he’s a great pick for Detroit, (partially because he’s there at 9).  I’m questioning the rest of the title, “probable bust.”  At 9, that statement just doesn’t make sense.

          Drummond was a great pick primarily for his potential. If he develops, he could be great. His downside is that he’s less likely to reach his potential than other, more polished prospects. I’m not complaining about picking him, but that’s the situation.

      • Jun 29, 20121:23 pm
        by Oracle

        Reply

        Also, fit comes into play.  It may make sense that a team didn’t want Drummond because they think his offensive game won’t develop enough.  That’s fine.  For the Pistons, they didn’t draft him to fill an offensive void as a stud center.  They picked him because he already has a place on the roster as a defender and offensive rebounder, which is enough for him to stay in the league and not be a bust at 9.

      • Jun 29, 20122:00 pm
        by Jodi Jezz

        Reply

        “Have a hard time seeing how this kid will be a bust.”
        There’s a reason he slipped to nine, no?
         
        Kobe Bryant slipped to 13…Enough said…

        • Jun 29, 20122:06 pm
          by Byron

          Reply

          Kobe Bryant slipped to 13 the year after Kevin Garnett was the first high schooler drafted in 20 years. It was a slightly different environment for drafting high schoolers then. I doubt Kobe was ever considered a contender for the 1st pick, then dropped based on performance.

        • Jun 29, 20122:28 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          Byron beat me to it. Kobe Bryant wasn’t considered a top 10 prospect in that draft at the time. Drummond, at one time before the college season started, was talked about with Anthony Davis as a potential No. 1 pick this year.

      • Jun 29, 20122:07 pm
        by Guus

        Reply

        Hey Patrick, I agree there must be a reason he slipped to nine (though we’re also talking about Toronto passing on him, for instance). But Oracle has a point here: why would Drummond have a greater potential to bust then Henson, whom most people seem to agree would have been a safe pick (though he slipped quite a bit himself from 9)? Your thoughts?

        • Jun 29, 20122:31 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          Henson blocked shots and rebounded well in college. Those stats usually translate to the NBA, particularly rebounding. I think it’s a safe bet that Henson will at the very least be a good shot blocker and rebounder in the NBA, even if it is in a limited role b/c of his frame. I don’t think he’ll be a star or anything, but I think the pick will certainly be second-guessed if Henson is an OK player and Drummond doesn’t develop.

          • Jun 29, 20124:25 pm
            by Andrew

            Henson is a clearly superior rebounder, but on blocked shots it was very close.  Henson was a sliver better, but he’s also had a lot more experience.  Drummond was the superior individual post defender.  Both are bad offensively (though Drummond was worse).  I don’t see where Henson is clearly safer, given that as young as Drummond is, it would be wierd if he didn’t improve over the next three years, simply from experience.  Those three years will represent large percentage increase in the number of hours he’s spent playing basketball, and there has to be a link between hours put in and skill.

          • Jun 29, 20124:29 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            Difference between the two is blocks to fouls ratio. Drummond blocks a lot of shots, but also fouls a lot more — 2.2ish fouls in only about 20 minutes per game compared to Henson’s 1.6. So Henson’s immediate value is that he can both block shots and stay on the court longer because he’s better at not picking up fouls.

        • Jun 29, 20122:39 pm
          by Dan Feldman

          Reply

          Like Patrick said, the biggest reason Henson is less likely to bust than Drummond is Henson was a way better college player. The biggest factor, by far, in how likely a player is to become a good pro is how good he was in college.

          • Jun 29, 20122:57 pm
            by frankie d

            agreed.  and as drummond showed last year – with numbers to back it up – he was a good interior defender who protected the rim.  that is what detroit needed.
            i haven’t seen the numbers on henson, but i’d be surprised if they showed that he was as successful a low post defender as drummond was.
            i think that henson will be a good weak-side shotblocker,  and a good rebounder, but i think he will need to be spotted because there are lots of nba bigs who will simply eat him him in the low post.  against the best low post offensive players, i think his usefulness will be limited.
            his body, absent 20 pounds or so, will simply limit his ability to do the same things he did in college, defensively.

          • Jun 29, 20123:13 pm
            by HerpDerp

            Question: Why are we comparing Henson’s junior productivity to Drummond’s freshman productivity in college? Wouldn’t it make much more sense to compare them at similar points in their young careers? In this case, Henson as a freshman and Drummond as a freshman. If that comparison is done, Henson does not look like a “way better college player”. In fact, Drummond looks more prolific. I know the draft is about the here and now, but it seems disingenuous to talk bust-ability (if you will) and not think about where players of similar positions, but different ages, compared at similar points in their careers.
            It seems that when that comparison is done, Drummond is actually ahead of Henson in terms of productivity. Therefore, I think it logically follows that Drummond’s likelihood of busting is not more than Henson’s, but actually less. If I followed the logic that is maintained above, “there is a reason he [Henson] slipped to 14″.
            I know I never post here, and I really appreciate the work put forth, but I think this is a serious stretch. Busts happens, but I think the equation that is being presented to the readership for Drummond’s bustability is off-base.

          • Jun 29, 20123:22 pm
            by HerpDerp

            Also, not to mention the fact that Drummond’s athletic and physical abilities/gifts afford him an advantage in terms of developing into an even better player than Henson is/ever will be.

          • Jun 29, 20123:23 pm
            by Dan Feldman

            There are a plenty of players with freshman years as good as Drummond’s and Henson’s. Each year we see those players gives us more information. Some will fall by the wayside. Some will progress. If the starting point is each player’s freshman year, we know Henson will progress, because he did. We don’t know what Drummond will do. That’s what makes him more likely to be a bust.

          • Jun 29, 20123:41 pm
            by Dan Feldman

            Also, not to mention the fact that Drummond’s athletic and physical abilities/gifts afford him an advantage in terms of developing into an even better player than Henson is/ever will be.

            Right, but that’s a separate issue. Between Drummond and Henson:

            • Higher likelihood to become a bust: Drummond
            • Higher potential: Drummond
            • Who I’d rather have: Drummond by a mile
  • Jun 29, 20121:02 pm
    by neutes

    Reply

    Good piece Feldman. Enjoyed this one.

  • Jun 29, 20121:02 pm
    by Franc

    Reply

    Great pick by the pistons, we desperately needed a big guy to compliment Monroe. Dan is basing Drummond’s whole NBA future on one night lol He is a young guy, who just had the best day of his life, let him enjoy it. So what if he wears sunglasses at night. He is only 18, we have plenty of time to develop him into a great player. He has another 3 years of growing left which is a scary thought since he is already built like a beast. I’ve lost Respect for you for this article since you hardly have any fact’s backing up you claim. You based off some he said she said bull****.

    • Jun 29, 20121:05 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Your comment just now:

      “Dan is basing Drummond’s whole NBA future on one night lol”

      Dan in the column you didn’t bother to read for comprehension:

      “But nobody is forcing me, or anyone, to determine Drummond’s fate right now. I have no idea how this will play out. How could I?”

  • Jun 29, 20121:12 pm
    by Haan

    Reply

    Very well put in the opening two sentences, Dan.  (As a side note: with that kind of reaction by Drummond to Toronto’s pick, maybe they weren’t so foolish in bypassing superior talent, even if they had control for years.  Wonderful city, but they have even more of a recruiting and retention problem than Detroit.)  Good point about Detroit’s failures with young players, possibly even Darko.  i think Darko needed to earn his keep as a big defensive presence for 10 to 15 minutes a game for starters, but maybe he just refused to do that.  Similarly, i’m at least hopeful that Drummond can contribute as a defensive presence from the get go.  Gores’ surprised me with his comment about Detroit doing well with young players, but maybe he has a point (contrary to yours) when you look at the recent past with Monroe, Knight, and Jerebko.  Then again, those three all seem like self starters.  But that may have to do with Dumars’ generally valuing certain ‘character’ traits (making an exception for an ubertalent like Drummond). 

    I disliked the Gordon trade nearly as much as you did, Dan, but with a dose of luck, Detroit’s back in the game.  Just maybe, they now have three cornerstones (Monroe, Knight, AD), along with some nice pieces (Stuckey, JJ, maybe even Singler and the second rounders).  If it turns out they have one true cornerstone (Monroe) your worries about the trade will come back to haunt them.  But today’s a time for celebration.

    • Jul 2, 20123:42 pm
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      Haan, completely agree with all that. The Gordon trade won’t necessarily end badly, but I still don’t like it. And I think you’re spot-on with Monroe, Knight and Jerebko. It’s great when you can get players like that, but sometimes you need to push someone without such a great attitude. By most accounts, Drummond needs that direction, and I hope the Pistons are better prepared to give it to him.

  • Jun 29, 20121:26 pm
    by Franc

    Reply

    I actually enjoyed your writing until this piece and the way you are handling the everybody’s feedback is arrogant and unprofessional to say the least. This is piece is so ill advised, i cannot believe you are an actual sports writer. I understand that this kid is going to take time to develop but to not even give him a chance considering is god given ability is moronic. Your Rodney white and Darko Milicic claim was ridiculous, Rodney white played for the pistons for one year, if he was anything special, he would have done something in this league when he was traded to the nuggets. We handled Darko Milicic as well as anybody could handle that bum, there was nothing special about him and it is truly sad that we missed out on players like Carmelo Anthony and Dwayne Wade in that draft. THIS IS THE BEST PICK POSSIBLE FOR THE PISTONS AND I RECOMMEND YOU DO YOUR HOMEWORK NEXT TIME YOU WRITE SUCH A PIECE, AND DON’T WORRY I WONT BE BACK ON HERE TO HASSLE YOU SINCE THIS IS A WASTE OF MY TIME. I JUST FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE SOMETHING AGAINST THIS GUY THAT STEMS OFF YOUR COLLEGE BASKETBALL TEAM PREFERENCE OR YOU JUST DON’T LIKE IS COCKINESS BUT THE KID IF 18 YEARS OLD, GIVE HIM A F***** BREAK. ANYWAY, HAVE A GOOD ONE BUD

    • Jun 29, 20121:30 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      “I actually enjoyed your writing until this piece and the way you are handling the everybody’s feedback is arrogant and unprofessional to say the least.”

      Maybe you should do your homework before commenting. I didn’t write this piece. Dan Feldman did. I’m simply responding to some commenters who have had past problems with engaging intelligently. Looks like you are going to join that club.

      Also, anyone who calls anyone else, “Bud” after typing a paragraph in all caps is probably not anyone I’m interested in having comment here anyway.

      • Jun 29, 20121:41 pm
        by Pistons

        Reply

        Agreed Franc. It’s awesome that the authors on this site are rude to their readers. Good work Patrick, and way to keep a professional branding on pistonpowered!
        #sarcasm

        • Jun 29, 20121:48 pm
          by Dan Feldman

          Reply

          I don’t think disagreeing with a reader is being rude, but if you’d prefer a site where the writers ignore their readers, there are plenty of options for you.

          • Jun 29, 20121:55 pm
            by Pistons

            Lol you too. And it was a little more than disagreeing.

            “Maybe you should do your homework before commenting”

            “Unlike the two bozos above”

            “I want to believe you are not as dumb as your comments sound. I really do. But I have a hard time.”

            So these aren’t rude? I think you guys are fabulous writers, and you’re right what you guys post are just opinions. But so are the readers comments about your writing. If their opinion is that you are negative, and then you guys get defensive and disrespectful of your followers for their opinions it’s just plain hypocrisy.

          • Jun 29, 20122:05 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            @Pistons:

            Sure, I could be better about some of my responses.

            Honestly, I’ve had plenty of great discussions with people who disagreed with my posts. Invariably, the characteristic of those discussions is that a reader started the discussion by pointing out something specific he/she disagreed with and supporting it with data. That’s fair. Then I can respond with, “well, here is some counter data” or say, “wow, you’re right, I missed that.”

            Also, the ‘two bozos above’ are not first-time commenters that I’m attacking. Marvin Jones and bugsygod are two commenters who have consistently posted rants that aren’t reasonable rebuttals, offer no facts/specifics for me to respond to and they’ve been long-time annoyances. So yeah, my response to them at this point is usually either ignore or be rude back. I should probably have better restraint, but I’m not a perfect person.

            Again, if you are saying, “you guys are negative,” give me links to several posts that prove there is a track record of negativity, and I’ll respond reasonably to that. If you say, “you guys are negative because I totally think you’re negative,” well, I’m probably going to tell you to shut up.

          • Jun 29, 20122:11 pm
            by Pistons

            Good response. You admitted you have a flaw in not restraining yourself to two specific readers. Their annoyingness probably doesn’t warrant rudeness on your part…but cool that you recognize it. Respect that.

    • Jun 29, 20121:54 pm
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      I understand that this kid is going to take time to develop but to not even give him a chance considering is god given ability is moronic.

      “But nobody is forcing me, or anyone, to determine Drummond’s fate right now. I have no idea how this will play out. How could I?”

      THIS IS THE BEST PICK POSSIBLE FOR THE PISTONS AND I RECOMMEND YOU DO YOUR HOMEWORK NEXT TIME YOU WRITE SUCH A PIECE

      “Andre Drummond is a great draft pick.”

      YOU JUST DON’T LIKE IS COCKINESS BUT THE KID IF 18 YEARS OLD

      “NBA workers escort each player throughout the process, at times handing off the player to another worker who handles the next step. To many players, the workers are anonymous signs to silently follow. Not Drummond. He exchanged introductions and handshakes with each one.”

       

       

  • Jun 29, 20121:28 pm
    by Vic

    Reply

    It’s obvious even from the way he talks that he is a Lebron/KD type personality that plays well in a band of brothers and he “plays with a lot of love, not a lot of hate” (lebrons quote)

    The Pistons are going to fit him perfectly, because it seems they have the right approach. Plus they need him. About half of a draft picks success is in their opportunity to play and get a spot in the rotation.

    Talented player + right org + team need + good character = very likely success

    Look at Javale McGee. In Washington he was a laughingstock.
    In Denver he’s giving monster production in the playoffs. Add character to that mix and the sky is the limit for him.

    It’s cooler to be negative because it makes you look smarter, but there’s no logical reason not to be pleased with Drummond on the Pistons. We just got the 2nd most talented player in the draft at a position of biggest need, in the most important position on the floor for championship contention. That’s a reason to be optimistic. He just lost 20 pounds. At the very least he’s a defensive force with highlight reel dunks and lobs that will challenge Blake griffin for Espn highlights. Defense helps the team win and highlight dunks increase fan excitement and revenue.

    • Jun 29, 20121:34 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Interesting JaVale comparison. Hadn’t thought about that. And I also loved Drummond’s comments about ‘brothers.’

      As far as ‘cooler to be negative,’ did you read Dan’s piece as overall negative? I didn’t read it that way. Pointing out some negatives that led to Drummond falling to nine, I think, is fair. For me, though, it came through that he’s extremely happy about the pick.

      Even Lawrence Frank just went on WJR and acknowledged that there are significant factors that led to Drummond falling. His point was that at pick nine, his upside is too great to pass. But if you’re at pick two or three or four with guys like MKG, Beal or Robinson on the board? It would’ve been a harder decision, even if Drummond might have more physical tools than those guys.

      • Jun 29, 20121:58 pm
        by Vic

        Reply

        Just my opinion, no offense.

        But as far a negative I think bloggers in general seem to be more apt to take the negative outlook. Not just this post alone. To me beginning with “probable bust” and ending with the sunglasses piece was a little bit of a reach to the wrong side.

        It’s fine to have a different pinion though.

        As far as why he fell I think fit is a big issue, which I posted on a post that got ignored at ebb a few weeks before it looked like he would drop.
        Most bad teams didn’t need a project big and needed a leader. The Pistons needed a project big and they don’t need a leader. Putting a project player in a bad situation guarantees his failure. The Pistons are not that organization, so for him to fall was completely a positive, I think. Unless he breaks his ankle or gains 50 pounds before October.
        Plus he’s got Ben hopefully and Greg to mentor him – to me it’s win win win

        • Jun 29, 20122:08 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          None taken. Your opinions are always reasonable, even disagreeing ones, and that’s always appreciated.

      • Jun 29, 20123:49 pm
        by Marvin Jones

        Reply

        Oh my God, I’m a long time annoyance. I have NEVER called you a name other than your own, NEVER and because I disagree with you that gives you the right to call me a bozo. You respond to Vic that his opinions are always reasonable, well mine are too and never disrespectful.  I’m so flabbergasted by your comment I can’t even put it into words. I won’t comment anymore so you won’t have to listen to any of my “rants”. Have a good life  

        • Jun 29, 20124:02 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          Well, you didn’t even disagree with me. I took exception to you calling into question someone’s credibility and insinuating he had an ax to grind against Joe Dumars while at the same time you provided no real evidence for such an accusation.

          I will apologize for the name-calling though. I should be better than that. I don’t want people to quit commenting here, but I also get extremely upset by baseless accusations like that. If you question someone’s credibility, you better provide significant examples or just don’t do it.

          • Jun 29, 20124:39 pm
            by Marvin Jones

            Apology accepted.  I’m not that computer literate so I can’t do the cut and paste stuff but even if I could it was no specific sentence just the entire article seemed to me, and apparently to others also, to be somewhat hateful and mean. That’s my opinion and I shouldn’t be vilified for it, just call me out without calling me a name, other than mine.   

  • Jun 29, 20121:33 pm
    by sebastian

    Reply

    Drummond will be at least as good as Kendrick Perkins, but I suspect that he will be better.

    • Jun 29, 20122:10 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      He’s more athletic than Perk for sure. Perk is much, much, much meaner though. Everyone who has encountered Drummond has commented on how nice he is, often too nice, both on and off the court. Hopefully, Wallace and the others are able to toughen that aspect of him up a little bit.

  • Jun 29, 20121:49 pm
    by Super J

    Reply

    I am a regular reader of Pistonpowered.com. I enjoy the updates and insights. This is my FIRST post ever. I am writing because after reading the comments left I felt it was time to jump in. First off I am an avid writer myself. I have published four books and in another life might have become a sports writer, because I LOVE sports.

    Anyhow here are my thoughts.

    Patrick: You are correct. There are far too many negative generalizations with very little proof to back up far sweeping accusations. However, I guess that is par for course when you write to the public.  I’m curious that you defend Dan more than Dan defends Dan. Also, if you ask readers to back up points I think it’d be fair to do the same without name calling. You make good points with logical conclusions…let that be your defense and not name calling.

    Dan: I enjoy your articles. I don’t know you and sometimes I don’t even look to see if you wrote an article or if Patrick wrote it, but I will say that most of the time if it is negative it has been from you. I believe it is the role to challenge an organization when you are a writer from time to time, but I caution becoming the village pessimist. I think many found this artcle to be negative because of comments like these:   

    Of course, that comes with no guarantees – and if forced to make a binary success-or-failure call to day, I’d bet on Drummond busting.”

    Also, the comments about the sunglasses come from left field. I have never met you, but in your writings it does seem to come off pessimistic and ax grinding esque….which is totally within your right. However, if that is your style or opinion than allow for fans to disagree.

    • Jun 29, 20122:19 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      First, welcome to the comments. A few responses:

      “However, I guess that is par for course when you write to the public.”

      I understand this. As a writer, I’ve always tried to respond to as many comments, positive and negative, as possible. I’ve done it here, at MLive, wherever I’ve written. I do it for many reasons — I genuinely enjoy the interaction, if people take the time to comment I feel like I should take the time to respond and, lastly, I work hard at this. So if someone is critical of something I put time in without putting proper time into forming a response with no substance themselves, I take offense. Sure, I should probably let things go, and there are times when I do just ignore and walk away. But one thing I want to drive home to readers here is that we are VERY accessible down here. It doesn’t have to be the old media vs. reader relationship, where writer writes something, commenters make fun of it, writer never pays attention. We’re receptive to feedback/intelligent criticism. We take the time to respond to questions, to clarify things or even just to joke around, like what was happening last night with all of the great draft conversation on the site.

      “I’m curious that you defend Dan more than Dan defends Dan.”

      Well, I probably comment on stories in general more than Dan. Like I said, I’m partially a commenter at heart. I enjoy the discussion, I sometimes have free time to write responses, etc. So I’m not really going out of my way to defend Dan, I’m just doing it because I’m always a presence in the comments here. If his writing is the discussion, and I think people are offering criticisms that are hollow, I’m going to say so. 

      “Also, if you ask readers to back up points I think it’d be fair to do the same without name calling.”

      With a few exceptions, I don’t namecall. There are a handful of regular commenters, and they know who they are, whose contributions down here I don’t much appreciate because they’ve always been rude or dumb or whatever. Yes, I would prefer if they commented elsewhere so those interested in rational discussion could have free reign down here. No, I don’t have any problem telling them they should go elsewhere.

      In my comments above, I’ll be the first to admit I was rude. But I also gave them a bluepring, with an example, of how to comment more intelligently and get better responses. The ball is in their court to do that or not do it.

    • Jul 2, 20123:46 pm
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      Super J, I think you will see that there are plenty of commenters here who believe I’m too positive. I’m happy to praise the Pistons for their positives and call them out for their negatives. This site launched during the 2008-09 season, so if I seem negative, that might be because more has gone wrong than right in the span.

       

  • Jun 29, 20121:57 pm
    by Byron

    Reply

    That beat-down up top has earned you guys a dedicated reader. That was awesome.

    In other news, the guy doing pick-by-pick analysis at Yahoo! wonders, “”Can he and Pistons big man Greg Monroe co-exist?” He then states that “Detroit may regret passing on a perimeter player.” So…. not going to Yahoo! for sports analysis anymore.

    • Jun 29, 20122:09 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Which writer, by chance? I didn’t see that.

      • Jun 29, 20122:13 pm
        by Byron

        Reply

        Mike Huguenin. He doesn’t appear to be one of their main basketball writers, but that’s still a plum assignment. Link: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/draft;_ylt=Ai4MDMcLQMCCN8D190iZWYM5nYcB

        • Jun 29, 20122:21 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          Hmm … not familiar with him. But yeah, that is weird analysis. If Henson or Leonard develops more than Drummond, they might regret passing on them. But I doubt they’ll regret adding a 19th small forward to the roster, even if Drummond doesn’t pan out.

    • Jun 29, 20125:32 pm
      by Byron

      Reply

      Jesus, now Dwyer at Yahoo! is saying that Waiters rose because of how well he did in individual workouts.

  • Jun 29, 20122:12 pm
    by Super J

    Reply

  • Jun 29, 20122:12 pm
    by Diab

    Reply

    In the 2005 NBA Draft, Bynum was selected 10th overall by the Los Angeles Lakers. At age 17 years, 244 days, Bynum was 12 days younger than former Indiana Pacers player and current Boston Celtics center, Jermaine O’Neal, the previous youngest player drafted by an NBA team.[12] After selecting him in the draft, the Lakers hired Hall of Famer Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to work with Bynum.[13]

  • Jun 29, 20122:20 pm
    by Loki

    Reply

    Ridiculous stretching about Drummond having the audacity to put on sun glasses – somehow the future might be dimmer because of it? What? He’s being unprofessional and the whole post-drafting interviews were all an act because the kid put on sunglasses at night while inside!?! Stop the presses, this is why he fell to us – you’ve solved it. Drummond probably did something similar at all his workouts. Maybe he wore sandals with socks in another instance and that makes him unserious and unprofessional as well.

    If you want to talk about unprofessional go no further than the comments by yourself and Patrick. It seems to me that you love criticizing and dissecting an 18 yr old kid for putting on sunglasses at night and believe you can read into his soul because of it but can’t take any criticism yourselves. Was some of the comments here lacking in substance, sure but what substance was there in the silly idea of making a big issue about an 18 yr old kid putting on sunglasses at night WHILE indoors.

    Be Sociable. Share – But only if you agree with everything we say here, and if you don’t we don’t want you here. We are above reproach.

    • Jun 29, 20122:38 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Oh man, it’s going to be one of those threads.

      “If you want to talk about unprofessional go no further than the comments by yourself and Patrick”

      Hey, Dan’s responses to commenters haven’t been unprofessional.

      “ It seems to me that you love criticizing and dissecting an 18 yr old kid for putting on sunglasses at night and believe you can read into his soul because of it but can’t take any criticism yourselves.”

      I didn’t write anything about his sunglasses. Also, I lve that song.

      “Be Sociable. Share – But only if you agree with everything we say here, and if you don’t we don’t want you here. We are above reproach.”

      Just make real, substantive arguments man. That’s all I’m asking. “yer a hater” isn’t a good argument. If all you have to say is “yer a hater,” then just don’t waste my time or yours by commenting.

    • Jun 29, 20122:46 pm
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      He’s being unprofessional and the whole post-drafting interviews were all an act because the kid put on sunglasses at night while inside!?!

      “It’s silly to suggest that a humble and hard-working person wouldn’t wear sunglasses inside at night, and I’m not doing that.”

      It seems to me that you love criticizing and dissecting an 18 yr old kid for putting on sunglasses at night 

      “For the record, I have zero issue with Drummond’s choice in eyewear.”

      • Jun 29, 20128:07 pm
        by Loki

        Reply

        “For the record, I have zero issue with Drummond’s choice in eyewear.”
         
        You write this, but you obviously do when you start reading into what wearing sunglasses at night and indoors might mean.  If you had no issue then you wouldn’t have written about it.  You took issue with him putting on the shades because you thought that one act spoiled the whole night of your shadowing him and listening to interviews and such.  It’s showed his immaturity and lack of professionalism or whatever – that’s taking issue with his choice of eyewear.

        • Jul 2, 20123:49 pm
          by Dan Feldman

          Reply

          You write this, but you obviously do when you start reading into what wearing sunglasses at night and indoors might mean.

          I wrote that it means nothing. The sunglasses are a symbol that we don’t really know yet what we’re getting with Drummond.

  • Jun 29, 20122:31 pm
    by Jeremy

    Reply

    I guess I’m late to this party. Long time reader, occasional commenter here. Personally, I enjoy everything that both Dan and Patrick have written. Dan was simply being a realist. No one knows what Drummond is going to do at the pro level. He didn’t dominate in college like a guy with his body should have.
    I dare to say Dan’s opinion here: “Of course, that comes with no guarantees – and if forced to make a binary success-or-failure call to day, I’d bet on Drummond busting” has to do more with the fact that of the 60 players drafted, the percentage that actually pan out is smaller than the percentage that end up out of the league after their rookie contracts.
    Furthermore, his mentioning of the sunglasses in the last paragraph was a symbol representing both the immaturity of and potential bright future of Drummond. We are talking about a player who has had his immaturity and motor questioned repeatedly over his freshman year at UConn. He is also a player that Chad Ford is placing Dwight Howard type potential on.
    With that being said, Drummond is the perfect guy for the current Pistons situation. Very rarely do you get a head without taking a risk.

    • Jun 29, 20122:50 pm
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      I’m glad the symbolism wasn’t lost on everyone. That is 100 percent what I was going for.

  • Jun 29, 20122:33 pm
    by Eric

    Reply

    I’d rather have Afflalo on this team than Stuckey

    • Jun 29, 20123:02 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Wow, haven’t heard that one in a while. Interesting thread to re-ignite that debate.

  • Jun 29, 20122:36 pm
    by Wall-E

    Reply

    Robots are immune to critisim.  Speaking of that, when are we getting another video blog from the basement?

    • Jun 29, 20122:41 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Man, I’ve upgraded basements and everything. Brand new bookcase backdrop. Very intellectual looking. Just need some books now.

      Not sure when I’ll have a new video, but perhaps this greatest hit will tide you over:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD0hoJie9IQ

      It was originally recorded on VHS.

      • Jun 29, 20122:54 pm
        by Wall-E

        Reply

        A hottie on each arm?  I think your argument was just won!

        I tried finding your “I like coach Frank/It’s not my momma’s basement!” video, but it is not there any longer.  Pity.  I needed another dose of that sweet, sweet monotone.

        • Jun 29, 20123:01 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          Hahaha … yeah, I think (thankfully) ESPN only keeps their web videos up for a week or so.

  • Jun 29, 20122:39 pm
    by Ray

    Reply

    im sorry too many positives about Drummond to be so negative…..IF WE TRIED to sign a player like Drummond we are looking at 10 mil per years….

    If he bottom out you have Deandre Jordan ….that you go with the 9th pick…. if he can even start to sniff his potential you have a guy that will me Joakin-Noad type 9th pick and if really gets hungry and wants to be ass good as his size and talent could suggest he becomes a legit force in this league on offense and defense….

    I dont care what he did in college, it is well documented all that happened at you ucon last year…im surprised the kid didnt have a mental break down…. you didnt hear about no issues with him, his teammates or coach staff….No money and the Bright lights of Detroit can change all that (Nick Fairley)… But if Greg, and knight bring him in as brother…and maybe Ben can toughen him up, Franks can coach him (not like he did Daye) , and dumars can encourage him…. he will be okay…and why does he need all that? because he is only 18 …

    KG lived with his mother for I think his first NBA seasons and then moved down the street a block away.

    Young guys like that need alot of support…So i think 85 percent of Pistons fan wanted Drummond, and 95% would have killed themselves if we had drafted a SG or SF….and I would have killed myself if we drafted John Henson. then there are people you can please.

    This was a GREAT draft for us… kris Middleton is a SCORER Paul Pierce like….and you get a 3 point shooter….

    Would have love to have got perry jones late in the draft ….

    • Jun 29, 20122:46 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      @Ray:

      The issue with Drummond is not that he’s a trouble-maker or anything like that. In fact, everyone who has been around him seems to say he’s a fantastic, nice kid. The issue, though, is that people really don’t know if he wants to work to get better. Check what his teammate, Jeremy Lamb, said about him in the quote there. Lamb says that Drummond is a great guy and great teammate, but he also openly questions the work he puts in. I think that’s the one concern people have — the physical tools are there, the intelligence is there, he even seems very mature for his age. The one component he’s just lacked so far is work ethic, and as we see every year in the NBA, there’s no way to project which players will develop that and which ones won’t. I still think Drummond was a great, great pick at nine, but there are certainly still some concerns.

      I also like Middleton too, the Pistons just need to do something with some of their other small forwards so he gets a shot to play. Between him, Prince, Daye, Jerebko, Singler they have way too many guys who could play minutes at that position.

      • Jun 29, 20123:08 pm
        by bugsygod

        Reply

        Wasnt the big question for lamb his motor?

        • Jun 29, 20123:36 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          The entire UConn team had questions about whether or not they were too passive on the court, to be honest. They lacked leadership and the program was in turmoil.

          But Lamb had also had a history Drummond didn’t — he was a key part of a national title team; he played on the U.S. Select team; he was still a decently productive player who could play big minutes, he had a decent freshman season when he didn’t have to be the go-to player — basically, he had a track record where teams could say, “OK, we knew what Lamb was, he fell off a bit b/c he was probably affected by the turmoil/lack of leadership at UConn.”

          I’m sure those same things contributed to Drummond having a down season. The difference was he didn’t have a previous college season or college track record where teams could say, “OK, he was fine in a more stable environment here.”

          That’s why he’s kind of a risk in that respect. Teams think and hope that he’ll be fine with some stability and with some leadership that pushes him to get better, but they also don’t know for sure because he’s never been in an environment like that, so it’s hard to say how he’ll respond to a team asking him to work harder, having expectations for him and, frankly, really badly needing him to mature quickly into a good player.

    • Jun 29, 20122:48 pm
      by Wall-E

      Reply

      Joakin-Noad????

    • Jun 29, 20122:58 pm
      by Byron

      Reply

      If he bottoms out you have Hasheem Thabeet, not DeAndre Jordan.

  • Jun 29, 20122:42 pm
    by Tom

    Reply

    Anybody else think of a young Sheed when they see Drummond? Obviously different players offensively, but with such talent, it almost seems too easy to them. Their demeanor lends them to be laid back and be part of a team, rather than a desire to dominate that their talent suggests? Just a thought…

    • Jun 29, 20123:00 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Sheed was far less athletic and far more fundamentally sound, even from a young age.

      But the demeanor comparison is interesting. A knock on that UConn team was that they weren’t bad kids, they were just all followers with no leader. I’m wondering if Drummond would’ve appeared more motivated had Kemba Walker been around one more year. Anyway, hopefully Detroit’s improving locker room dynamic is a good fit for Drummond.

  • Jun 29, 20122:43 pm
    by Troy

    Reply

    There is no better value at the 9 pick than Drummond. If he becomes anywhere near what he COULD be, then we’re in a very good position for the future.

    Regarding the sunglasses comment, I think everyone is missing the last line.

    “Or maybe, the future is too darn bright.”

    • Jun 29, 20122:56 pm
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      Troy, after reading some of these comments, I actually double-checked the post to see whether I had accidentally cut off that final line. Glad someone noticed it was there all along.

  • Jun 29, 20122:47 pm
    by Edgar

    Reply

    Do we have any sense of what the Pistons’ player development program is like? Do they even have a set program or do they adjust it based on the player and whoever happens to be the head coach? Has their perspective regarding player development changed with new ownership/since the Darko debacle/since they let so many young players go be productive elsewhere? It seems like Knight, Monroe, and Jerebko are young guys that are self-starters and don’t really need to be prodded to develop their skills as much as Darko did or guys like Daye and Drummond do. Thanks and great work, Dan and Patrick!

    • Jun 29, 20122:54 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I believe Dumars has always left a lot of that up to individual coaches. Haven’t seen much detail on Frank’s philosophy on that, but I’m not positive if they have a specific organization philosophy or if they tailor it for each individual player.

      I definitely do think that guys like Daye or Darko or Walter Sharpe or Terrico White or some others who may not have been as motivated over the years tend to get left behind, but that would’ve probably been the case for those guys in any organization.

  • Jun 29, 20122:53 pm
    by Shane

    Reply

    I’m surprised there isn’t a press conference link up here:

    http://www.nba.com/pistons/watch-live-pistons-press-conference

  • Jun 29, 20122:56 pm
    by J in FLA

    Reply

    Good article.  Enjoy the site.  My go to source for everything Pistons. 

    To Patrick and Dan I say…

    Don’t feed the trolls.

    Will there be a piece forthcoming about the overloaded roster?  I don’t see how they are going to fit all of those players on it, especially if Big Ben comes back.  There’s gotta be some trades a brewin’ right?

    • Jun 29, 20122:58 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Thanks J. The trolls so hungry though.

      And yeah, we’ll start getting into some specific roster stuff over the next week. Starting with a power rankings of the best small forwards on the Pistons, listed 1-17.

      • Jun 29, 20124:17 pm
        by vic

        Reply

        lol.
        more wings & combos than BW3s. again

  • Jun 29, 20123:12 pm
    by bugsygod

    Reply

    DETTTRROITTT BASSKETTBALLLLL!!!!! 

  • Jun 29, 20123:14 pm
    by Alan

    Reply

    Good article, Dan.  And very honest to discuss the bust potential of this kid.  What a world we live in where a prospect with this bust potential also generates a high grade for the team drafting. 

  • Jun 29, 20123:15 pm
    by Travis

    Reply

    Well chad ford gave us an A-. But like he says, you can’t really judge a draft til a few yrs down the road anyway. I think this especially applies to Drummond.

  • Jun 29, 20123:15 pm
    by Aruna

    Reply

    Does anyone else think about the idea that school itself might have been a drain on him which led to disappointing on the court?  I know that college athletes at big-time programs like UConn get all the help that they could hope for, but he was just 18, didn’t have a senior year of high school, and seems to be happy to be able to play basketball.

    I know he graduated high school early by design, but you’re far more on your own in college.  The team seemed dysfunctional and might not have provided him with the proper emotional support system to be able to focus on basketball.  I guess, I have a hard time seeing someone with those physical skills not at least being a starting-caliber player, assuming a proper level of dedication, which seems to be corroborated by his words and I assume the folks that the Pistons interviewed . . . although I suppose people said the right things about Austin Daye, but he never materialized.  That seems to be a confidence issue though and the topic of another conversation.

    • Jun 29, 20123:30 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I think the issues at UConn definitely played a role. Coach who had health problems, school that was getting investigated by the NCAA, roster that didn’t have great chemistry, etc. He may have been much better in a more stable environment.

  • Jun 29, 20123:39 pm
    by Crispus

    Reply

    I’m a new commenter, so I don’t want to anger the hard-working writers here, but there is something about this article that bothers me. The thing is full of contradictions that are supposed to negate the statement that came before. The problem is that once you say (or write) something, you can’t unsay it, but that’s what Dan seems to be doing here, multiple times. ‘He’s a great pick – but a probable bust. I support this pick! – But why didn’t he lose weight at UConn? I don’t care about his sunglasses – But they just dimmed the Pistons’ future!’.

    That sort of internal dialogue is fine when you are deciding what to write, but putting every internal argument into the finished product creates confusion – and negative comments. I think it would be a better article if you picked a positive or leery tone, or put the positives and negatives into opposite halves of the article so that your position doesn’t appear to swing back and forth so wildly. I mean, that little thing about the bandwagon being full, is that supposed to sound snarky? It seems like it belongs in a different article than the nice touch about him greeting his ushers.

    As far as the pick itself, it’s definitely hard to know what to expect, but Drummond is here now, and although this is journalism, unless there’s some evidence of him not wanting to work, support and optimism from local media could literally help him succeed.

    I don’t mean to be an armchair journalist, but I can see why the commenters are hating, but also why the author is asking everyone to read more closely.

    • Jul 2, 20123:55 pm
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      Crispus, this article was written for someone who can appreciate the nuance that Drummond was both a great pick and has flaws. If someone can’t handle that and gets confused by not having Drummond’s pros and cons neatly listed in columns, he or she was not the intended target. Sometimes, issues are black and white. Most of the time, there are shades of gray. This is one of those times.

      I mean, that little thing about the bandwagon being full, is that supposed to sound snarky?

      No. Pistons fans are, for good reason, incredibly excited about this pick.

  • Jun 29, 20124:18 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    Alright, reading the timid way Crispus tiptoed into the comments above is certainly not the tone I want to set here. My comments have gone off the tracks in a few cases and apologies are owed and I need to be better than calling a couple of specific commenters names. Not saying it won’t happen again — I’m an emotional dude, but I’m going to work to make sure it doesn’t.

    Also, to reiterate, I have no issues with disagreements. Disagreements are great, make the discussion lively, etc. Some things that are not great:

    - Making a claim/accusatory statement without providing any supporting data. “I think this, so it must be true …” minus any kind of other substance is not a good argument or response to anything.

    - Trolling – this can include registering multiple screen names to post the same comment to try and make it look like more people agree with you than actually do; posting off-topic things or controversial things (like the dude posting the stern conspiracy stuff last night) just to get people riled up, etc. Just don’t do it.

    - Making sweeping statements about a post you clearly haven’t read. Several commenters above obviously drew conclusions without fully reading this post. Don’t do that. Read before commenting. If you disagree, reference the specific area you disagree with. Say, “hey, this is where you went off the tracks and here is why.”

    Disagreements that are well-articulated or well-researched are appreciated and helpful to any writer. Unlike some sites, the writers here actually read and care about what commenters have to say. We actually respond as much as we can. I know that I, personally, learn things from many of the intelligent, funny, weird, observant mix of people who comment here.

    The writer-commenter relationship doesn’t have to be adversarial. You can civilly point out that something doesn’t make sense or needs clarification and we can civilly respond. That’s the way it should be here and at every news/sports site everywhere. I’ll do a better job of keeping that in mind as well.

  • Jun 29, 20124:30 pm
    by Mark

    Reply

    ppl saying this kid can’t play basketball yet I think are really underestimating his ability. You can’t just look at 1 bad college season and say he can’t play basketball. Like most, I don’t think any of us saw him play live in high school, but if you watch his high school highlights, this guys has tremendous skill with the ball in his hands. I know its just against high school talent, but it doesn’t if he’s in the gym alone, some of the things he did with the ball in stride I’ve never seen from a big man his size.

    imo, his game was built for the NBA. He was not built for the college game. Had he went to the NBA straight out of high school, I think he would’ve had a more succesful year in the NBA last year against NBA talent, than he had in college.

    What I saw from him last year was a young freshman playing for an old-school taskmaster in Calhoun, who knew he was only going to have 1 yr with him, so instead of developing him slowly, he threw everything at him at once and confused the heck out of him, to the point that he forgot that he was just playing basketball. 

    Sort of like a rookie QB in the NFL, that gets so much piled on him by his coach’s that he looks like he doesn’t even know how to play anymore.

    Once Drummond gets on the Pistons with a young coach like Frank, who has the patience and time to just let him play the game freely, and a big man like Monroe to take all the pressure of him, this kid is going to show the haters he can play basketball right now. Can he dominate right now? Of course not, but he’s going to fit into the NBA game MUCH better than he did in college and you’ll see right away that he CAN play basketball.

    That GS owner that said he can’t play basketball is out of his mind.

    • Jun 29, 20125:08 pm
      by PistonsFan22

      Reply

      He wasn’t bad. He was an elite post defender in the Big East as an 18 year old center. He should have still been in high school. People mature at different rates. He’s so young and was put on a team that didn’t know how to utilize him and had awful chemistry. What I know is that averaging 10 points 8 rebounds and 3 block per game in the Big East, basically as a high school senior, is not bad by any means. I’d kill to have a player on U of M as a freshman who could repeat that production .People just expect too much from some prospects, especially young centers. They take much longer to develop than other prospects. John Henson and Tyler Zeller couldn’t get off of the bench as freshman, and didn’t even do much as sophomores. Does that tell us much about the way their game would end up?

      • Jun 29, 20125:16 pm
        by Patrick Hayes

        Reply

        “I’d kill to have a player on U of M as a freshman who could repeat that production”

        Jordan Morgan?

        • Jun 29, 20125:38 pm
          by PistonsFan22

          Reply

          Oh no Morgan is no where near where Drummond was as an 18 year old. Morgan couldn’t even sniff the floor as a freshman let alone average 3 blocks per game and 8 rebounds per game. In fact even as a sophomore and junior Morgan didn’t average 3 blocks and 8 boards. I wish though.

  • Jun 29, 20124:33 pm
    by Scott Free

    Reply

    How meta, we’re discussing the professionalism of writers who wrote an article about the professionalism of drummond.  Please, someone point out how unprofessional this response is!

  • Jun 29, 20125:27 pm
    by Edgar

    Reply

    I’m actually far less concerned about Drummond’s motor/desire to get better than I am with the team’s ability to maximize his potential. I’m thinking about it in terms of Malcolm Gladwell’s article about quarterbacks. If I remember right, he placed an emphasis on the situation/environment a quarterback is drafted into as a more accurate predictor of success than anything the quarterback did in college. If there is a reason to bet on Drummond being a bust, I’d say it’s more the Pistons’ poor track record in nurturing talent. Drummond is way more athletic and coordinated than Thabeet (for example) and doesn’t seem to be an entitled douche like Darko (for example). I think he’ll learn how to practice well and how to be a professional. What I’m more worried about is him getting no playing time (Darko) or super inconsistent playing time (Daye).

    • Jun 29, 20125:47 pm
      by PistonsFan22

      Reply

      He can already bang with the big boys and move his feet to defend the pick and roll. He will not be on the end of the bench like Darko, Darko was very soft when he first entered the league.
      Drummond brings a defensive presence that the Pistons desperately need this season so he will have to be on the floor. I’d be shocked if he averaged less than 20 minutes in his first season. With his wingspan, vertical and size even if he can’t block a ton of shots he will alter plenty. The Pistons need it badly too because they were absolutely dreadful at protecting the paint last season.

  • Jun 29, 20125:31 pm
    by DG

    Reply

    I read this article as I’m glad Andre Drummond had these red flags because otherwise we wouldn’t have had a chance to draft him.  Ain’t life grand when you don’t tank?

    At about the 6th pick last night and Barnes and Drummond were both still available I was thinking “I wish they had tanked just a couple of games!”  I was sure Houston was going to sneak into the Raptors pick and grab Drummond.  Then they picked Ross.  I still haven’t stopped grinning.

    I guess the life lesson is don’t stop playing hard just because things aren’t going your way.  Keep working and get better every day.  That’s truly how the Pistons will become winners again.  Not by tanking.  By winning every game possible and not giving up.

    Tanking would have sent the wrong message to the players.

    • Jun 29, 20125:34 pm
      by DG

      Reply

      Not that the article had anything to do with tanking.  That’s just what I was thinking about during the early part of the draft.

  • Jun 29, 20125:48 pm
    by bvpiston

    Reply

    First time poster, long time reader. First off, Patrick, I read your book or whatever the hell it was, and it was the best book or whatever the hell it was I’ve read in a while. Congrats on that.
    Now, on the article. I found it quite interesting. Only thing I did not like was the term “probable bust.” There’s a difference between possible and probable and I would have liked “possible” better in that title. Anyway, I, for one, couldn’t care less right now how Drummond turns out in a few years. It’s what he is doing right now, for me at least. And this pick did a few things. It showed that we can get lucky at times and it proved we’re on the right path. Any And there’s a saying I like: “you make your own luck.” Plus, in my opinion, the discussion on Drummond being a bust or not is just plain dumb. He was there, we had to take him. Everybody on this board would have made the same call. It’s now like we drafted an unknown player. We know who he is, we know what he’s capable of achieving. I just hate it when we don’t root for our own players.
    We’re going to be ok, guys. Joe D is righting the ship. It started with Moose and maybe and hopefully will end with Drummond if he pans out. But right now, I’m exited to be a Piston. I like our guys(well, not Charile V and Daye), I like our coach, I like our owner and I guess I like our GM. If we somehow make the playoffs next season, I’m liking the Gordon trade even more. Screw the pick we lost, it’s not the first and won’t be the last we or any other team trades one.

    • Jun 29, 20129:53 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Haha. Thanks for reading the book. And I agree with your ‘possible’ vs. ‘probable’ thing. Semantics, but I think that word had a lot of people taking Dan’s post more negatively than intended.

    • Jul 2, 20123:59 pm
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      “Only thing I did not like was the term “probable bust.” There’s a difference between possible and probable and I would have liked “possible” better in that title.”

      Either word would have been fine. I picked probable because I think there’s a >50% chance Drummond becomes a bust.

      Plus, in my opinion, the discussion on Drummond being a bust or not is just plain dumb. He was there, we had to take him.

      Drummond might be a bust. He was the obvious right pick. Those are not mutually exclusive ideas.

  • Jun 29, 20125:51 pm
    by Darrell

    Reply

    Firstly, I thought this article was great.  You can analyse stuff untill you are blue in the face but recounting an experience or interaction or impression goes a long way to understanding a guy you’ve (meaning me) never met. 

    I personally do not think he’ll be a bust and i’m talking Olowakandi/Brown busts.  A big part of the reason he got those red flags was that he was a victim of his own potential.  Why aren’t you better; more dominant?  RED FLAG.  Why don’t you have the innate ability to sense your opponents despair and crush their hopes and dreams (and hear the lamentation of their women)?  RED FLAG.  As far as I can tell, the dude dominated high school.  He’s got hangers-on, scouts, agents, etc all wanting a piece of him.  the NCAA wants a piece of him.  AAU.  He has great individual skill but a shallow understanding of the game.  This all points to a lack of development stemming from dominance via natural ability…and being young.
    He now is at a point where he HAS to work but he hasn’t proven it.  There is a bit of that in the bust equation.  On the other hand, there isn’t much to say that he won’t do it.   
    Still, through articles like these and others over the past weeks, he just seems like a young kid growing up in the spot light.  Its a good sign he’s kept a good sense of self. 
    Being young and under developed in the team game arena, he has a big bust factor but not more than any other prospect.     Plus, he doesn’t have to save the franchise.  That’s Daye’s job.

    • Jul 2, 20124:02 pm
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      Darrell, I agree with nearly all that. Drummond gets, and probably will forever get, flack, because he’s not as good as what someone believes he should be. It’s JaVale McGee syndrome.

      But, I believe Drummond is more likely to be a bust than some of the other players drafted around him, because he wasn’t as good in college as they were. I love his upside and hopes he gets there, but he has further to go.

  • Jun 29, 201211:02 pm
    by Faraz

    Reply

    i’m a long time reader of PistonPowered, and i must say that its by far the best pistons blog. Look at NeedforSheed or Bad Boys or whatever, they dont compare. But this is a blog, meaning they can write whatever they want. If they choose to, they could write a negative article every day. The whole point as readers is to view the pistons from different perspectives. If you want an extremely biased and overly optimistic (sometimes unrealistic) pistons blog, go read Keith Langlois’s True Blue Pistons. With that blog, you take everything with a grain of salt cuz of how Keith butters it up so much. 

    But over here, Patrick and Dan write what they want because thats how they see it, not how you all see it. 

  • Jun 29, 201211:37 pm
    by damian

    Reply

    i appreciate being able to get monroe, knight and drummond with mid lottery draft picks.

  • Jul 1, 201212:51 am
    by Jeremy

    Reply

    Maybe he was so happy he was crying and wanted to hide it with his sunglasses. Ha, just kidding

  • Jul 1, 20129:23 am
    by Michael

    Reply

    I’ve never commented on this site before and came to this article because of the headline. “Probable bust” really grabbed my attention and not in a good way.  I do think it’s a poor choice of words. For a site that seems to be dedicated to Piston readers and fans I would think a more positive choice or words for a headline would be in order. The article actually does include a lot of positives that really don’t mesh with that attention grabbing headline. I’m guessing the headline choice was made to get views more then anything. 

    I feel like we need to give this guy a chance to actually get on the floor and show us what he’s got before we place labels like “probable bust” on him.  To make the argument that all draft picks can be labeled with that doesn’t really justify using that headline on a site written mainly for Piston fans to read, IMHO. He’s was only 17 years old when he went to UCon and how many 17 year olds have a lot of dedication and work ethic to whatever there doing? From what I hear he lost a lot of weight over the last year and I take that as a positive sign that he is now ready to dedicate himself to the game. Being in a pro environment should also help him greatly.

    He will have role models like Joe D, Brandon, Greg,Jonas,Tayshon, hopefully Big Ben to help instill a strong work ethic in him. I don’t expect much from him early on, he’s still young and raw,  but I do think he will be a very productive player for the Pistons in the years ahead. Joe D did his homework on him. Joe said he learned from his past mistakes like Darko,  and now does extensive background checks on every player. I think he stated they even interviewed his sixth grade teacher. 

    As a Pistons fan I would like to have seen the headline read “Potential Superstar“. Yeah…we all know he could end up being a bust but I like to think positively and read positive articles about my favorite teams and players especially when reading a site dedicated to that team. I can get the non-biased and negative articles from the sites like ESPN. Again..l do think the article mentioned a lot of positive things but it’s the headline that I have issues with and also the blurb about the sunglasses. I don’t think what he wears is important, how he plays is what counts and let’s wait to see that.

    • Jul 1, 201211:19 am
      by oats

      Reply

      How about, “Andre Drummond- Great Pick”? I mean, those are the words right before “Probable Bust”, and they count for something too. The point of this article seems pretty clear, expressing very cautious optimism. I don’t know, it seems to me the title summarizes the point of the article, and as such it wasn’t just a grab at page views. I mean, he flat out said that if he had to guess he’d guess that Drummond would be a bust. As for labeling him a bust, well, “But nobody is forcing me, or anyone, to determine Drummond’s fate right now. I have no idea how this will play out. How could I?” It seems pretty clear Dan isn’t interested in placing any such label on Drummond. If anything, I could just as easily say Dan is labeling him a “Great Pick”, but then I’d have to ignore the fact that Dan doesn’t seem interested in giving Drummond any label until the kid has played a few games at the very least.
       
      I read this article as Dan saying he liked the pick, but he is aware of the risks involved with Drummond and it’s important to keep them in mind. Pistons fans have a tendency to go overboard when evaluating the potential of their picks. We did it with Stuckey, and overvaluing Stuckey led to the Chauncey trade and this mess the team is in now. Yeah, Stuckey is a good player, but he’s also not the top 5 point guard Pistons fans had him pegged as. That’s why it’s important to accurately evaluate the talent you have instead of just assuming they will become All Stars. That sort of thinking leads to mistakes, and sets fans up for disappointment down the line. The point is, let’s wait and see before we call him a bust or a potential star. Monroe is a potential star, Drummond is a talented kid who hasn’t produced that much at the college level and is about to go up and play against even tougher competition. If he ever looks to be on the verge of reaching his admittedly high ceiling we can call him a potential star, and in the meantime let’s not put any labels on him but instead take an honest look at where he stands. I for one think it’s at least as problematic to label him a potential star as a probable bust, although both are fairly accurate. Again, I think a large part of the point of the article was that it’s too early place any label on Drummond.
       
      Look, I get the whole optimism thing. I don’t agree with you about the non biased stuff belonging to ESPN. That seems silly. ESPN doesn’t spend a lot of time talking about bad teams because they aren’t very interesting. That means the only way to get a fairly realistic take on the Pistons more often than not is by going to sites like this one. This site isn’t really unbiased anyways, it’s pretty clearly run by Pistons fans and there is some bias at play in that. However, it does try to be objective and realistic, which I for one really appreciate. Keith Langlois puts out more than enough fluff pieces that give us the rosy view of the team for my liking. Honestly, that closing paragraph of yours is a little confusing for me. The article mentioned both positive and negative things, but was fine. The title meanwhile mentioned both positive and negative things but was not fine. I guess I don’t get the distinction here.
       
      On to the sunglasses. I really don’t think it was meant to be a sign of what to expect from Drummond the player. He’s talking about the image Drummond is portraying, that of the consummate professional. Wearing sunglasses at night/indoors is seen as valuing looking cool over being practical, and the consummate professional that Drummond is attempting to portray himself as would be too concerned about practicality to just go for the cool look. It’s sort of a crack in the facade if you will. All that said, I don’t think that was really the point of it being there. It’s more about using it as symbolism for the article as a whole. It’s about how Drummond is a risky prospect who could be a great player. The real point is to get in those last two lines, both the one about the future being dimmer and about it being too darn bright. The article is about the dual nature of a high risk/high reward player, and the sunglasses anecdote was included to allow him to hammer home that point. It’s a fun way to end an article, not a statement that he thinks the sunglasses actually mean something. I’m a little confused why so many people are hung up on this when the article clearly states that wasn’t the point of the statement. Like you shouldn’t read all that much into the sunglasses thing, you also shouldn’t read too much into the use of a fairly common writing technique.
       
      (Note: I can use it too…)

    • Jul 2, 20124:06 pm
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      I like to think positively and read positive articles about my favorite teams and players especially when reading a site dedicated to that team. I can get the non-biased and negative articles from the sites like ESPN.

      If you want positive articles about the Pistons, you will like some on this site and not others. We’re going to tell you how we see it, not paint a rosy picture. If you get enough Pistons coverage from national sites like ESPN, well, hey, glad that’s enough for you.

  • Mar 23, 20145:07 pm
    by Geoffrey

    Reply

    Hi i am kavin, its my first occasion to commenting anywhere,
    when i read this post i thought i could also create comment due
    to this brilliant paragraph.

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