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Pistons’ bad luck ups pressure on current players, especially lottery rep Brandon Knight

NEW YORK – Joe Dumars set the tone for the Pistons – who’ve spent the last three years in the lottery, their longest tenure in ping-pong paradise since 1993-95 – during Detroit’s first non-playoff season of the current run.

“When you’re talking about the lottery and what could have happened and if you would have gotten a ball, it’s kind of a bogus conversation anyway to be like, ‘Oh my God, the lottery, we could have …,’” Dumars told Dave Pemberton of The Oakland Press in 2010. “First of all, you’re pissed off that you’re in the lottery in the first place, so the fact that I’m going to sit there like, ‘Oh, you know, we could have won this.’”

After tonight’s lottery – in which the Pistons, seeded to pick ninth, drew the ninth pick – I asked Brandon Knight, the Pistons’ on-stage representative at the event, what he thought about staying at No. 9.

“It’s a good position to be in,” Knight said. “We’re still in the lottery.”

Apparently, he hasn’t learned the company line.

For now, the sound bites don’t matter. I’m sure neither Dumars nor Knight was pleased with the Pistons’ season, and no matter how they spin the resultant draft pick, nothing real changes.

Earlier in the day, Kelly Dwyer of Ball Don’t Lie evaluated each team’s on-stage representatives. Here’s what he wrote about Knight and the Pistons:

9. Detroit Pistons — Brandon Knight.

Who they should have picked? Eh.

It’s the NBA’s most boring team, picking near the end of yet another lottery. Outside of springing Kwame Kilpatrick from jail to take part, and giving him a series of energy drinks along the way, I just can’t really be bothered to care.

Sorry, Brandon.

Humorous? Yes. Accurate? Also, yes.

Nationally, the Pistons are irrelevant. Short of winning more – either games or the lottery – that won’t change. Unfortunately, the next lottery is a year away, and winning games will prove difficult as a result of tonight.

“I’m sure we’ll still get a good player, even at No. 9,” Knight continued. “Whoever comes here, we’re going to welcome him, and they’re going to be part of the Pistons family, and we’re going to get ready to work.”

I don’t doubt the second part of that quote. The Pistons’ locker room, by all appearances, is incredibly more functional than it was just two years ago. Whoever the Pistons pick will have an opportunity to develop in a professional environment.

But still getting a good player is far from a lock.

Obviously, Anthony Davis was the ultimate prize, but due to their better play in the second half and poor luck tonight, the Pistons won’t even get a crack at the next tier of prospects. Many claim there’s little difference between picking No. 2 and No. 9.

I don’t buy it.

There are five players, without considering where they’re picked, who I’d love to draft: Anthony Davis, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Thomas Robinson, Andre Drummond and Harrison Barnes. There are two more players who would satisfy me with the No. 9 pick: Bradley Beal and John Henson.

Obviously, those are just seven players – meaning, unless at least two teams picking ahead of Detroit take others, the Pistons won’t even have a chance to draft a player I find satisfactory.

Everyone has their own preferences in prospects, but try the exercise yourself. No matter whom you want, can you name nine players you’d truly be pleased to see the Pistons draft in the first round? I’m guessing you most of you can’t.

I hope Joe Dumars can, but I’m guessing he can’t, either. Once again, Detroit must hope some non-desirable players climb into the top eight.

More importantly the Pistons must rely on their current players to improve – a prospect that scares me. I’m just not convinced this group has championship-contender upside without significant outside help.

More than anyone else, Knight bears the burden of proving me wrong.

Greg Monroe can get much better, but he’s already close to All-Star caliber. Jonas Jerebko, because of his style, and Rodney Stuckey, because of his age, are probably closer to their peaks than most realize. And I have little faith Austin Daye will make big strides.

But Knight, a talented hard-worker with ideal physical skills, can get much better. He was one of the NBA’s worst starting point guards this year, though that’s somewhat excusable given his age, the lockout and his teammates. My opinion of Knight hasn’t changed since the day he was drafted. He has all the tools, but until he uses them to become a quality NBA player, he’s not a quality NBA player.

Can he get there by next year? I’m not sure, but I’m convinced he’s going to try. I also asked Knight about his summer plans.

“Just to work out in Detroit a little bit – basically just work out for the summer,” said Knight, who added his main focuses would be the pick-and-roll and preparing his body for defense – two areas I think are perfect for him hone in on.

While I asked that question, just 34 second into my interview with Knight, a Pistons media-relations official told me it would be the final question. The Pistons, sometimes frustratingly, don’t always seem concerned about receiving publicity. But like I said, winning will be much more important for the franchise than interviews – in the same way hard work trumps lottery luck for Knight, who had said he wouldn’t bring any lucky charms to New York. To Knight’s and the Pistons credit, they’re about substance over style. Eventually, though, both must actually show some substance.

Before leaving, Knight cracked wise with Kyrie Irving about that time the Pistons led Cleveland by 50 and then followed the media-relations staffer to the exit.

As Knight squeezed through a crowded studio of reporters, NBA officials and lottery-team representatives, he slowed behind a scrum of people, the type of obstacle that prevented me from reaching him sooner.

But, with a little patience, he made his way through.

45 Comments

  • May 30, 201211:30 pm
    by TheDude

    Reply

    idk for some reason I’m not worried. Like Joe Dumars said, you go in with a 1.7% chance, you plan ahead as if you stay 9th.
    We would have all rejoiced with first overall, but I think we’ll be ok. Coming up is year 2 of this 3 year turn around.
    Year one: divide it into 2 parts A) first 24 games B) next 42 games. If we look at part A as an extended training camp/transition with new ownership/new coach/new point guard, ok, they went 4-20. But part B they went 21-21, the worst team in the east that made the playoffs was only 4 games above .500. One thing I kept in mind throughout the season was even tho we were losing a lot of games, very few were out of reach, meaning chemistry was building, the ability to close games will need to be improved.
    Year 2: I don’t think there’s a chance this team gets worse, best case scenerio they can finish above .500, to set a small goal, let’s say 4 games above. Besides the draft pick, I would also like to see Maxiel traded allowing Vernon Macklin play more, Bynum get traded and replaced with a seasoned point guard who is willing to be a teacher for Knight. Singler will likely be back, and he can be a key to this bench along with Jerebko. And guys these are minimal moves, nothing crazy like trading ben gordon for kevin durant or something. These are doable adjustments that will only lead to improvement and long term development, without much risk. No more roster fillers like Damien Wilkins and Russel D Walker Jr.

    • May 30, 201211:45 pm
      by TheDude

      Reply

      lol, Walker D. Russel jr (I’ve been drinking)

      • May 31, 201212:24 am
        by Chris H

        Reply

        Drinking the spiked Pistons Kool-Aid?  In reality we couldn’t have expected a top 3 pick, the odds just weren’t there.  Also I have little faith in getting a little bit of NBA love from Mr. Stern.  I’m just hoping that another team or two is stupid and a decent player falls to us.  I mean it’s possible all 8 teams picking before us just don’t like Anthony Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist, Thomas Robinson, Andre Drummond and Harrison Barnes, and one of them falls to us.  Of course it’s also possible that the world ends this December and we never see how this season plays out anyway…

  • May 31, 201212:35 am
    by Daye and Knight

    Reply

    9 players I would be ok with would be: Davis, Drummond, Beal, MKG, Robinson, Barnes, PJ III, Sullinger and Terrance Jones. To me as long as we get one of those guys I would be ok moving forward. I would even kind of be ok with Henson so that’s 10. Everyone has their own opinions but for me that is the 10 players I wouldn’t mind having on the team. So picking where we are doesn’t bother me much. What bothers me is watching New Orleans win…the league OWNED Hornets.

    • May 31, 20121:09 am
      by pisstons

      Reply

      hornets are no longer league owned

      • May 31, 20121:16 am
        by Mark

        Reply

        Ironically, they mentioned on the lottery show that Benson is still in the process of closing the deal, and titled him ‘soon-to-be owner’. Can’t think of a better way for the NBA to close the deal than gifting him the #1 pick.

        • May 31, 20129:57 am
          by Daye and Knight

          Reply

          My point exactly…the NBA has about as much credential when it comes to being real as the WWE: both are popular but rigged and staged

  • May 31, 20121:08 am
    by Mike Payne

    Reply

    How is it bad luck if the Pistons got precisely what they earned?  They had the 9th worst record.  They now have the 9th pick.  That’s not bad luck.  It’s karma in the literal, translational sense.

  • May 31, 20121:12 am
    by Mark

    Reply

    I agree we have been the most boring team for decades now, even when we were champions in ’04, but hey at least ESPN thought Knight was interesting enough to give him one of the only pre-drawing interviews during the intros of each team rep.

    On picking 9, imo,  I think we will get at least a valuable asset. I think we will have to get lucky to get an impact player with any AS potential, but whoever we get will at least be another tradeable asset we will have added. And this past trade deadline was a reminder that we have little to none in that department. So even if we don’t get a player we like or want, he should at least become a trade asset for us, to get the player we do want n the future.

    Which brings me to my main point, which is I think we are going to have to finish building this team through trades and FA. When you are picking 7-9 every year, you cant expect to build  a championship team solely through the draft. We got lucky 2 yrs in a row and got 2 top 3 talents in both drafts at 7/8, but odds of that happening every year are slim, and probably won’t happen again this year. So its going to be up to Joe now to find at least 1 FA gem like he did with Chauncey, and also work his magic in trades again. Whoever this 9th pick ends up being, it will at least be a chip to help him make those trades.

    • May 31, 20126:51 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      It is way premature to call Knight a top 3 talent in his draft class.

  • May 31, 20121:31 am
    by Lorenzo

    Reply

    I’m one of subscribes to the “not much difference between 2-9″ school of thought. Without getting into too many specific names lets just go along with the “Tier” system that many NBA teams use (including the Pistons)….Clearly there is only a single Tier 1 (superstar) prospect. After which you can make the argument that there are 8-10 Tier 2 prospects; hence why the draft is considered deep. If you want to stretch it… you can maybe put MKG and/or Robinson alone as Tier 2 and slide the rest as Tier 3. Either ways whoever the Pistons end up with, it’s not like they are going to get royally shafted considering their position. As you say it’s a matter of opinion but after Davis there are a plethora of flawed, but talented, bunch that make up Tier 2 (or 3). Though I’m sure there is going to be vehement disagreement on the matter; its all subjective in the end.

  • May 31, 20121:47 am
    by Max

    Reply

    I guess I understand all the posts, replies, hype and buildup but the Pistons are just going to draft according to serve and it would really have been winning the lottery if they moved up because they had so little chance.   I’ve been a die hard Pistons fan for over three decades but I’ve never even really gotten excited about any lottery where they didn’t have a great chance of moving up and treated this one as I usually do and have been basically strongly assuming they’d draft 9th for over a month.   Also, I guess I have more belief in Monroe than a lot of people here and my other assumption is that he can be a top ten player for the next decade and probably will.  Therefore, the Pistons aren’t as in need of star power as a lot of other say in my belief.

  • May 31, 20123:53 am
    by Jakob Eich

    Reply

    How about trading up? Next year’s draft isn’t going to be as strong and the Pistons aren’t likely to have better position than now. SO why not offer this year’s draft picks plus next year’s second-rounder for Austin Daye to get up to 7th or 8th? Maybe Toronto would do that, because they like players who can shoot and don’t play defense. Of course Austin Daye would start becoming a very good player in an instance as soon as he puts on a Raptors jersey (in good tradition with Delfino and Amir). Yet still it might be our only shot, although you never know what bogus decision GSW wants to make…

  • May 31, 20128:36 am
    by Chris

    Reply

    Well im glad Charlotte didnt get the number one pick.
     
    As for picking 9th- we will either get someone who can play- or we wont. Life goes on…

  • May 31, 20128:55 am
    by Sanjiv

    Reply

    Chad Ford, in his neverending mindchanging on who is a best fit for everyone at their different pick location raised Henson, and it seemed like a logical fit, then he swapped over to Zeller, I’m sure another idea will come soon.  Honestly, I can’t see why Henson is such a clear cut better fit than Perry Jones.  He has motivation issues, but they said the same for Monroe when he was drafted.  Some guys just have that approach until they get to the big time.  He can play the 4 sliding Greg over, or play the 3 sliding Tayshaun hopefully to the bench or to another venue.  He has top 3 pick upside, probably better upside than anyone in the draft not named Davis or Drummond.  Why settle for a loose fit like Henson? 

  • May 31, 20128:57 am
    by neutes

    Reply

    Everyone just needs to relax. Perry Jones III will be here to save the day soon. Bahahaha.

  • May 31, 20129:02 am
    by Vic

    Reply

    It was our improvement that got us to a five hundred team and I will be are an improvement in performance that gets us to the next level.
    This is a pretty deep draft after Davis about two through 15 I’ll have the same ceiling.
    Or similar ceilings. A bunch of starters and a couple of stars maybe.

    If we add henson or Sullenger or Myers Leonard and continue to improve our performance as a team will do better than most of the other teams in the lottery.
    If we add machado as a backup point guard, Crowder as a backup small forward we’ll be good.

  • May 31, 20129:12 am
    by Vic

    Reply

    And if one of those don’t work out pick up Kyle Oquinn

    Smart drafting good coaching and good team system building beats draft luck most of the time. Look at how those Old spurs are beating the new thunder

  • May 31, 20129:22 am
    by Jeremy

    Reply

    I don’t understand the “we need the first 2 picks to get anyone good” montra. None of these teams know what the player they are selecting are going to turn out to be. I emplore teams to go back to the previous 10 drafts, look at who was selected at 9, and who was selected before and after that player. I can almost certainly guarantee that 50% of the players drafted at 9 are those that people would want on this team (2010 Gordon Hayward, 2009 DeMar DeRozan, 2007 Joakim Noah, 2004 Andre Iguodala, 2002 Amare Stoudemire). I can also almost certainly guarantee that there are players in every draft selected before 9 that people will be like “who the f is that?” Just as there are players selected after 9 that people will be like “how did he slip that far?”

    Drafting players is just as much a gamble as actually being a lottery team trying to get the number 1 pick. For me, talent is only part of the equation. Its the organizations ability to develop players and the players will to get better that factor in to everything as well. This organization has never been one for developing their players. Within a span of 10 years, they have gone from having a coach (Larry Brown) that rarely played rookies and used the #2 pick as a human victory cigar (I don’t care how bad Darko may have been and how good the team was at that point, the guy just didn’t get the minutes to even begin to develop) to coaches that none of the players respected (Curry, Kuester). While Frank appears to be all in on the player development train, we will need to wait a few years to see if it actually occurs.

    The other thing that needs to be remembered is this is an organization that will forever have Ben Wallace as one of the faces of the franchise. The one player in league history who could go down as the only undrafted superstar ever – in his prime, he was a top 3 center in the league. That whole concept bucks the notion of only finding players in the top of the lottery.

    For all we know at this point, Davis could be a bust. Remember the same draft experts labeled Darko as the can’t miss player in the 2003 draft, some expecting him to be far better than Lebron. A player like Drummond, Henson, or hell, even Draymond Green may actually be the guy that fans and teams look back and wish they/their team would have drafted. Just as Portland who they wish they would have taken #1 in 2007. Look at the team Boston would have had if they never gave up on Billups (drafted 1997), Joe Johnson (drafted 2001), and Al Jefferson (drafted 2004). They took Pierce in 1998 and Fatwoine Walker in 1996 (albeit the pick that selected Al Jefferson was one that Boston received from trading Walker to Dallas). Don’t tell me you wouldn’t have taken a team composed of Billups, Joe Johnson, Pierce, and Al Jefferson between 2004 – 2007…

    Wow, sorry got off topic a bit. Just ignore me and I’ll end with this: Go Pistons!

  • May 31, 20129:42 am
    by Reaction

    Reply

    Well I just check espn’s twitter feed and they said Portland and Golden State are looking to trade their picks with teams or something of that sort… GET ON IT DUMARS NOW

    • May 31, 20129:44 am
      by Reaction

      Reply

      If we get the Blazers 6th pick there is a chance we could get either Robinson, Drummond, MKG, Barnes, Beal since Davis will be off the boards for sure.

      • May 31, 201210:59 am
        by neutes

        Reply

        There is no point in trading up unless it’s for a top 3 pick

        • May 31, 20122:15 pm
          by Reaction

          Reply

          Actually Neutes, there is a huge point. I’m pretty sure anyone who has followed these players (Davis, Drummond, Robinson, MKG, Barnes, Beal) would say there is a huge discrepancy between those 6 and anyone else. Those 6 players can become cornerstones of franchises or at least become very good building blocks.

        • May 31, 20128:13 pm
          by Lorenzo

          Reply

          Agree with neutes, no point in trading up unless it’s top 3….and that too only if you loooovveeee MKG or Robinson (I’m assuming number 1 and Davis can’t be had)….which is a sketchy prospect in it’s self. Guys like Drummond and rest of the bunch have too many questions marks and not enough talent separation to warrant mortgaging assets.

  • May 31, 201210:52 am
    by Quick Darshan

    Reply

    1. Davis
    2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
    3. Thomas Robinson
    4. Drummond (Haven’t seen him play, but going on his profile).
    5. Henson (Good shot-blocker and pick and roll defender.  Solid Jumper.  Developing post game.  I’d be happy if he fell to 9)
    6. Sullinger

    Hope they get drafted before the Pistons:
    1. Beal (Haven’t seen a lot of him, but SG is not a need)
    2. Barnes (Solid but not exceptional)
    3. Perry Jones III (He’s shown me nothing)

  • May 31, 201211:57 am
    by steve battle creek, mi

    Reply

    how all our hopes rest w/ Brandon knight??  The Piston Powered hate on Brandon Knight continues.   what a joke… 

    • May 31, 201212:29 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Oh Steve, you’re so simple. I’d feel bad for you if you weren’t also such an asshole about your simpleness.

      Saying that their hopes for improving a lot rest on Knight is not an insult. In fact, it’s the opposite of an insult. It is saying that Knight has the most upside and best work ethic on the team, so Knight improving immensely is the team’s best shot at improving from within. Monroe is already nearing his ceiling. Stuckey is already nearing his. Knight has just scratched the surface of his talent. So, if he works really hard and takes a huge leap forward next season, the Pistons could improve a lot. If his improvement is only minor or incremental, they’ll probably be about the same as they are this year. Work on your reading comprehension before you start getting worked up again in the future. Or just comment somewhere else. I’m cool either way really.

      • May 31, 201212:52 pm
        by steve battle creek, mi

        Reply

        LOL!  im an asshole?  wow someone has maturity issues…
        *
        This site conitually puts down brandon knight – -  ex.  he gets 1st team all rookie your response “he barely made it and you would not have put him there”(oh but the nba coaches did), he & ben are the hardest workers on the team your response “yup”, you even said he should be traded now as his value is at its highest(crazy)!  
        *
        you called him in this article one of the worst starting pgs this year???  well take a look at the playoffs Patrick, collison for pacers, chalmers for heat, shumpert for knicks, teague for hawks, devin harris utah, are all STARTING PGS FOR PLAYOFF TEAMS.  AND THERE THAT MUCH BETTER THAN KNIGHT???  come on its obvious you have some sort of hate for the guy, you even said in one of your draft profiles that knight is a “suspect” outside shooter.  WHAT??  he shot 37% from three.. IN HIS ROOKIE YEAR! 

        The hopes of the team rest w/ Greg Monroe, you know the BEST player on the team, DUH!   Stuckey is reaching his peak, but HE needs to show he can do it for an entire year.  Knight is a hard worker and i have faith he will eventually be a border line all star type pg.  he has the talent, the work ethic and character to get there.  BUT HE IS NOT THE KEY TO THE TEAM NEXT YEAR, THAT WOULD BE GREG MONROE.  This is not a team with one true superstar, so it will be a team approach, similiar to the current Spurs, with monroe in the duncan role, knight is parker and stuckey is ginobli.  NOT saying that our players are as good as them right now, but THAT should be who they strive to be. 
        *
        But hey i will let you hate on knight all day and i will continue to call you out on it.  And when he makes his 1st all star team i will be sure to let you know. 

        • May 31, 20122:08 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          I’ve been trying to avoid getting into debates with lightweights, but you’ve successfully baited me. Let me refute some of your lazy, stupid points.

          “LOL!  im an asshole?”

          Yes you are.

          “wow someone has maturity issues”

          Yes I do.

          “he gets 1st team all rookie your response “he barely made it and you would not have put him there””

          That, in fact, was not the response. The actual response was it was surprising that he made it — if you look at all of the projected teams from SI, ESPN, CBS, NBC, etc., most predicted he’d be second team or just barely miss making all-rookie. I believe the actual response was something like, “It was surprising that he made first team, we thought there were other rookies who had better seasons, but good for him.” And yeah, I would’ve voted for him for the second team, as I wrote beforehand. That’s hardly a slight.

          “he & ben are the hardest workers on the team your response “yup””

          Well, I didn’t write that post, Dan did. But that’s hardly a slight. It was simply saying that Frank calling Knight and Wallace the hardest workers on the team jibes with what we all saw on the court. Even if there are some holes in Knight’s game right now, I think most would agree he works incredibly hard. Saying ‘yup’ I assume (since I didn’t write the post and you are too busy not reading for comprehension to be bothered to look at the bylines on each post) was Dan’s way of saying he agrees with Frank’s comments and there is very little to add.

          “you even said he should be traded now as his value is at its highest(crazy)!”

          When did I say that? I can tell you when: never. Yes, Knight’s value as a trade commodity is probably high right now, because he’s an intriguing prospect and he’s on a cheap rookie contract, two things that other team’s covet. That is a fact. But that is not the same as saying, “They should totally trade him.”

          It’s very easy to have arguments with someone when you put words into their mouth. I could say, “Steve from Battle Creek thinks Devin Harris is the reason the Utah Jazz made the playoffs. Here is why he’s wrong.” That would be extremely easy for me to do, but it wouldn’t be making an honest argument because I would be twisting words you said to mean something else. This, my mouth-breathing friend, is the same bullshit you pull in your poorly thought out responses.

          “you called him in this article one of the worst starting pgs this year”

          Again, I didn’t write the article. But yes, statistically, he was one of the worst starting PGs in the league this year. He’s still a tremendous prospect, but he’s far from a finished product. How is it out of bounds for anyone to state that? It doesn’t mean Knight will never get better, it just means that right now, he had a very up and down rookie season and he’s still learning to be a point guard. That in no way is some sort of attack or prediction that the dude will never get better.

          “well take a look at the playoffs Patrick, collison for pacers, chalmers for heat, shumpert for knicks, teague for hawks, devin harris utah, are all STARTING PGS FOR PLAYOFF TEAMS.”

          Collison, Teague and Harris are all better than Knight right now. Shumpert is better defensively, not nearly as good a shooter. Chalmers is in a unique situation since the Heat have no point guard and run all of their offense through James and Wade. Your examples are awful.

          Yes, Brandon Knight could definitely start on a playoff team right now if he was surrounded by phenomenal talent. He’s not though, and the Pistons have no cap room. So if they are going to become a playoff team, Knight improving is going to be a major factor in them getting there. Talking to you is worse than banging my forehead against a wall.

          “come on its obvious you have some sort of hate for the guy”

          I just want to point out that you called me immature above, but your arguments can basically be translated to, ‘LOLz yer a h8ter! Derp Derp Derp!’ You write sentences that don’t mean anything.

          “you even said in one of your draft profiles that knight is a “suspect” outside shooter.”

          Which one? When did i use the word ‘suspect?’ I wrote that his 3-point shooting was a surprise, considering he didn’t shoot the three all that well in college, but would never, ever use the word suspect. Have you ever considered that part of the problem you have with this site is on you? Maybe you just don’t read or understand words particularly well?

          “The hopes of the team rest w/ Greg Monroe, you know the BEST player on the team, DUH!”

          No one said that Monroe isn’t the best player on the team. But he’s near All-Star level now. Monroe averaged 16 and 10 this year. He might improve those some, but they’re already really good. He can certainly improve defensively, but the point is, he’s getting close to his ceiling already, so it’s not realistic he’ll keep improving at the rate he did from last year to this year. He might make one more big leap, but that would be it I’d guess. Knight has much more room to grow and get better.

          “Stuckey is reaching his peak, but HE needs to show he can do it for an entire year.”

          This sentence is irrelevant. Stuckey is 26. He’s nearing his prime. Chances are, he’s about as productive as he’s gonna get. He’s a good player, a starter, but it’s not realistic for the Pistons to count on him getting much better.

          “Knight is a hard worker and i have faith he will eventually be a border line all star type pg.  he has the talent, the work ethic and character to get there. “

          OK dipshit, that’s exactly the point Dan made in his post above. You are just making it using dumber words. Knight has the work ethic and the upside to get SIGNIFICANTLY better. That’s why he’s the most important Piston right now. Monroe may not get significantly better. Stuckey or Jerebko or Daye probably won’t. But Knight? He has so much room to grow and improve that, if he does, it completely changes the kind of team the Pistons are.

          “This is not a team with one true superstar, so it will be a team approach, similiar to the current Spurs, with monroe in the duncan role, knight is parker and stuckey is ginobli. “

          Great, so they are a version of the Spurs, except with much, much worse players. That comparison is so idiotic, I can’t even do anything except point and laugh.

          “NOT saying that our players are as good as them right now, but THAT should be who they strive to be. “

          Oh good. So all Knight has to do is try really hard to be Tony Parker, and he’ll get there. And as for Monroe, he’s not even as competent as Matt Bonner defensively yet, let alone Duncan.

          “But hey i will let you hate on knight all day and i will continue to call you out on it.”

          Oh please do. Your awful, stream of consciousness posts always are an unbelievable waste of my life to read. It’s such a treat.

          “And when he makes his 1st all star team i will be sure to let you know.”

          Yeah, you do that. You can do it in the post on PistonPowered that is covering Knight making the All-Star team, so that will be handy for you!

          But seriously man, there are a dozen sites that discuss the Pistons online. Go find another one. I’m sure you’re insight will be welcome anywhere. Also, I’m glad to see you back using your old screen name. It got confusing with you registering for different screen names so you could make the same point under a different name. I’m sure it was a lot of work for you too, typing double the amount of comments that people find so informative.

          • May 31, 20122:45 pm
            by steve battle creek, mi

            its great to see my “stupid” “dipshit” comments get you so riled up!  that usually means my comments are touching home, as if they were not you would not comment.. right!?  And good to see you admit your immature.   But i review this site and just about every Pistons site i can.  I also review every nba site, espn, nba.com, hoopsworld, draftexpress, nbadraft.net, ANY site with pistons content!  i will continue to shut you and DAN up on this site, with you dumb non-expert analysis of basketball.  so get used to seeing Steve from Battle Creek, oh unless you ban me.  phahaha!   But clearly my point on this site is there is a bias against B. Knight, that is very obvious.  And i am a die hard pistons fan since 1980, prolly before either Patrick or Danny were born.  You guys would have given up on soooo many of the great teams we have.  “why they trade dantly for aguire that was dumb”, “sign n trade for chucky atkins & Ben wallace they could have got a better deal”, “nooooo not sheeeeed wallace he’s a cancer”.  my final note… you keep saying monroe can only get slightly better  ”he’s getting close to his ceiling already, so it’s not realistic he’ll keep improving at the rate he did from last year to this year” but frank, dumars and every other EXPERT site say he is just scratching the surface, so do i believer Pat and Danny or the exerts… hmmmmmmm.  In my FRED SANFORD VOICE… BIG DUMMIES!

          • May 31, 20123:08 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            You did and you do strike a nerve, yes. You continuously misrepresent what I write. That strikes a nerve. You continuously question my knowledge and writing ability while you, yourself, write and conduct yourself like someone with a first grade education. I’ve never once proclaimed myself to be an ‘expert.’ I respect and value the opinion of just about everyone who takes the time to read and comment here. You are one the few notable exceptions to that. And I make no apologies for pointing out that your comments are often stupid, wrong and nonsensical. There are plenty of comments that I think are wrong or nonsensical, but people make them without making ridiculous accusations that this site is biased or questioning whether or not I’m competent or knowledgeable enough to write about this team/league. If you have disagreements, fine. Make them, just do a reasonable job of backing up what you say with facts, don’t distort things, don’t put words in my mouth that I didn’t say and quit with the bullshit ‘your so biaz LOLz!’ crap. Act like a functioning, semi-literate adult, not some message board trolling stereotypical internet asshole.

            This site is a hobby for me because I love the team, love the game and love to write. I (and Dan) put a lot of time into it because we are passionate about what we do. So you don’t ‘strike a nerve’ with me because you are onto something or have some sort of valid opinion. You don’t. Not even a little bit. You ‘strike a nerve’ with me because you troll, you misrepresent what I say, you make baseless accusation and you are, generally, a miserable person to interact with on a site that I genuinely work hard at and care about and want to be a place where sensible people interact without silly bullshit like what you post occupying the space down here.

          • May 31, 20123:28 pm
            by steve battle creek, mi

            sorry for hurting your feelings pat.   Thought there could be reasonable dialouge on this site… guess not.  I will try to make my comments more to your liking and NOT EVER EVER disagee with you again…

          • May 31, 20124:12 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            There’s a lot of good dialogue on this site. None of it is with you, though, because you are terrible. There is no redeeming value in anything you say. Unlike Brandon Knight, you have no upside.

          • Jun 1, 20124:00 am
            by Max

            One question:  Why is it so unlikely that Stuckey makes a big improvement next year when by my count, once he got healthy this year, he played like a stud all star and was putting up 25 every night?   Why is it so unlikely that he could enjoy a healthy season, develop chemistry with Monroe and Knight and put up some big numbers?

          • Jun 1, 20129:02 am
            by Patrick Hayes

            @Max:

            I’m not saying it couldn’t happen. It’s just highly unlikely. Stuckey is 26 (will turn 27 late next season) and has been in the league six years. He’s also played big minutes. Typically, players who fit that description don’t make some huge leap forward. I’d suspect, if he stays healthy, he’ll have a good season, but I just don’t think he has all that much upside anymore. He’s not a prospect like Monroe or Knight, he’s entering his prime years. I’d certainly like to be wrong, but all indicators are that, by now, Stuckey just kind of is what he is, a pretty solid starter versatile enough to give quality minutes at either guard spot. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect much more than that. Most guys who make a big leap in their late 20s are guys who just haven’t got a chance to play a lot earlier in their careers, then shine when they finally get minutes. Stuckey doesn’t fit that description.

          • Jun 1, 20122:21 pm
            by Max

            You could say though that he never got to be concentrate on being a starting shooting guard until last year and that he flourished like never before once he was comfortable in his role and healthy.  The game he played against Kobe and the Lakers wasn’t an aberration at the time but just the game that stood out most amongst a host of big games he was having.

          • Jun 1, 20123:17 pm
            by Max

            There are lots of different player narratives.  It seems to me that Stuckey is becoming more of a man and a bully out there and his improvement could be helped by that.
            Also, chemistry can make players a lot better and I haven’t really seen it much yet but I still envision Monroe becoming a passing hub and developing some stuff with Stuckey out of the high post with Stuckey cutting.
            Monroe’s rookie summer league was remarkable in that he showed more passing in one summer than he practically showed in two years in the NBA.  Even so, Monroe was amongst the league leaders at center in assists this year and led for some of it.   But I’m not really surprised because coach Q didn’t let Monroe have any decision making responsibilities and Frank didn’t get a summer league, full training camp or even much practice time this year with Monroe.  Even so, Monroe was amongst the league leaders at center in assists this year and led for some of it.
            I still see Monroe as a player who is gradually improving and who has a long way to go.  There is something unassuming and measured about him that is perhaps stalling his being able to put it all together in terms of his entire personal skill set but the total set we’ve seen is staggering.  I think he’s going to have a monster year next year and to put it in fantasy terms, people will be drafting him in the 2nd and 1rst round next year.  I drafted him in the 4th or 5th rounds of three leagues this year and he greatly rewarded me and I won 2 of them.  I see a Kevin Love level breakout year for Monroe next season and the league will finally take notice.
            BTW: Despite my always saying the Pistons can’t draw free agents, Monroe could actually be the kind of player that other players are really drawn to.   How many team’s best player and big man is mature, unassuming, unselfish and a great passer?
             

        • May 31, 20122:14 pm
          by Dan Feldman

          Reply

          This site conitually puts down brandon knight – –  ex.  he gets 1st team all rookie your response “he barely made it and you would not have put him there”

          Are you suggesting he didn’t barely make it?

          he & ben are the hardest workers on the team your response “yup”,

          As in, that fits their reputations, so Frank’s rankings are very logical.

          you even said he should be traded now as his value is at its highest(crazy)!

          When did either of us say that?

          you called him in this article one of the worst starting pgs this year???  well take a look at the playoffs Patrick, collison for pacers, chalmers for heat, shumpert for knicks, teague for hawks, devin harris utah, are all STARTING PGS FOR PLAYOFF TEAMS.  AND THERE THAT MUCH BETTER THAN KNIGHT???

          I wrote this article, not Patrick. George Hill starts for the Pacers and is way better than Knight. Jeremy Lin is the Knicks’ starting point guard, and he’s better than Knight. Devin Harris is way better than Knight, and Jeff Teague is also clearly better. Chalmers is a bit closer, but he’s also better.

          The hopes of the team rest w/ Greg Monroe, you know the BEST player on the team, DUH!

          Monroe is already very good, and the Pistons stunk. If he continues to be very good, the Pistons still might stink. He needs to improve, but more so for the Pistons to get better, they need another player to improve considerably.

          And when he makes his 1st all star team i will be sure to let you know.

          Neither Patrick nor I has said Knight won’t be an All-Star.

          • May 31, 20123:22 pm
            by steve battle creek, mi

            1.  Yes he barely made it ..duh, but where is the praise that HE DID MAKE IT??? hello, there have been a lot of just made it’s or barely made it’s in sports, usually your praised because YOU MADE IT! DUH
            2. Again where is the praise for the ROOKIE being compared to BEN WALLACE work ethic?? just YUP? thats all we got again where is the praise to being compared to a potential Hall of Fame player who got to this point based on HIS HARD WORK! smh
            3. this site suggested that b. knight should be traded “in a what if” scenario because his value is high now and may never get this high again.  this site did trade scenarios for all the players, but my point in that scenario you or pat said because his value may never get higher, SO the hardest worker, who just happens to be a rookie, that plays the toughest position in the league wont see his value go up??
            4.   what makes g. hill better than knight?? teague? lin played 35 games and if you look at his numbers they went DOWN the more he played. devin harris cant shoot and is a TO machine still in his 8th yr in the league, and knight shoots better than chalmers already!please use facts not your eyes
            5. Monroe can get MUCH better, More dominant where he can LEAD them to victories, not just learning how to play, since this was his 2nd yr in the league and 1st being the “main” guy.  i expect his number to be 19 and 10 next yr and better D.  and EVERYONE says hes just scratching the surface from dumars, frank, ben wallace, espn d. thorpe, draftexprss giovany, etc.  smh
            6. your last comment is laughable and to be honest Detroit doesnt need Pistons fans like you two!  ITS LIKE SLEEPING WITH THE ENEMY

          • May 31, 20124:11 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            “this site suggested that b. knight should be traded “in a what if” scenario because his value is high now”

            This site did these posts for EVERY player on the roster, not jut Knight. None of the posts said the team should or shouldn’t trade anyone. They simply said, if they were to trade this player, could they get anything?

            Shit, it should be compliment to Knight that he’s one of few players on this roster who actually has trade value right now. He, Monroe, Jerebko and Stuckey are about the only ones who do. Nowhere did it advocate trading him. It just said if they did trade him, his value is high right now because he’s one of their few assets.

            Again, the problem here is not the site. It’s your ability to comprehend what is written.

          • May 31, 20124:22 pm
            by Dan Feldman

            Yes he barely made it ..duh, but where is the praise that HE DID MAKE IT???

            http://twitter.com/PistonPowered/status/205033217743532032 

            Again where is the praise for the ROOKIE being compared to BEN WALLACE work ethic??

            Read what Frank said. He wasn’t comparing Wallace and Knight. He said they were the team’s two hardest workers. For all we know, Wallace could work way harder than Knight, who worked only slightly harder than the third hardest worker.

            this site suggested that b. knight should be traded “in a what if” scenario because his value is high now and may never get this high again.  this site did trade scenarios for all the players, but my point in that scenario you or pat said because his value may never get higher, SO the hardest worker, who just happens to be a rookie, that plays the toughest position in the league wont see his value go up??

            Here’s the article you’re talking about. Copy and paste an excerpt that shows we said what you claim we said.

            what makes g. hill better than knight?? teague? lin played 35 games and if you look at his numbers they went DOWN the more he played. devin harris cant shoot and is a TO machine still in his 8th yr in the league, and knight shoots better than chalmers already!please use facts not your eyes

            Fact: Knight finished last in PER, win shares and win shares per 48 minutes among that group — by a wide margin. Win shares aren’t a perfect measure, but Knight is so far behind, it would be very difficult to believe he’s better than those players.

            Monroe can get MUCH better, More dominant where he can LEAD them to victories, not just learning how to play, since this was his 2nd yr in the league and 1st being the “main” guy.  i expect his number to be 19 and 10 next yr and better D.  and EVERYONE says hes just scratching the surface from dumars, frank, ben wallace, espn d. thorpe, draftexprss giovany, etc.  smh

            Monroe can get much better. So can Knight. Because Monroe is better than Knight already, that means Knight has more room for improvement.

  • May 31, 201211:42 pm
    by tarsier

    Reply

    I just want to point out that Steve has one valid point. He didn’t flesh it out well, but you two, if I correctly interpreted your impressions of Monroe, do underestimate his potential for improvement. His stats might not go up a ton, but he is presently terrible on defense. He appears to have the intelligence to vastly improve on that end. And, given how important defense is for big men, that would make him a much better player. Enough to make a significant difference in Detroit’s level of play without any improvement from Knight whatsoever.

    Steve, please understand that if you want anyone to take you seriously when your English is so incredibly poor, your arguments would have to be downright stellar. They are not, so I recommend, besides improving your arguments, fixing the technical details of your writing. My brain hurts every time I see the language so thoroughly massacred. And please don’t respond by saying that you don’t care if anyone takes you seriously. If you don’t why on earth do you bother to post comments at all?

    • Jun 1, 20122:57 pm
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      I can’t speak for Patrick, but I think Monroe has big-time room for improvement. But he’s much closer to his ceiling than Knight. Knight has more room for improvement than anyone on the team outside of Austin Daye.

      • Jun 1, 20125:49 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        Well I deliberately stopped short of saying that you actually underestimate his room for improvement. Just that my impression from what was said was that he doesn’t have that much more room. But with this statement, I completely agree, well, depending how much “much closer” means.  :)

  • Jun 2, 20122:00 pm
    by Chris

    Reply

    Sorry but I find your smug shit boring.

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