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Pistons might not use amnesty this summer

Keith Langlois of Pistons.com:

my best guess is that they will not be exercising the amnesty clause.

It seems unlikely to happen this summer, though.

As for the amnesty, I don’t anticipate the Pistons using it this off-season.

Before using the amnesty on any player, the Pistons will surely try to trade him. If the Pistons planned to amnesty a player, even without naming him yet, that will cripple his trade value. So, even if the Pistons planned to use the amnesty, I’m not sure Langlois, a team employee, could reveal it. Essentially, this could just be misinformation.

Then why did I pass it along? In case the Pistons aren’t bluffing, so you can brace yourself for the Pistons paying Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva $20 million next season. I figure that will take some time to process.

The amnesty can save teams money if they’re over the luxury-tax line. The Pistons aren’t.

If they use the amnesty, for it to have any value, they must replace the amnestied salary, paying around double for the roster spot.

From a pure on-court perspective, amnestying Gordon easily makes the most sense. To Tom Gores, no amnesty would be, directly, the most financially-sound route.* Amnestying Villanueva might be a decent compromise.

But remember, Gores has the final vote. Compromise isn’t necessarily in the cards.

*Of course, an improved team might generate enough revenue to offset the amnesty’s expense.

20 Comments

  • Apr 24, 201211:33 am
    by brgulker

    Reply

    With the new contracts for Prince and Stuckey, the amnesty clause has very little immediate value for the Pistons. Prince’s contract in particular is a cap killer, as I argued this summer after it happened. Very few agreed at the time, but it appears factually obvious at this point. Tay has declined significantly, and the Pistons cap situation is terrible, even if the amnesty were used.

    Had Joe let Tayshaun walk, retained Stuckey with the qualifying offer, then used the amnesty on Ben Gordon, we could have been serious free agent players. Probably still could have been with Stuckey’s contract, actually.

    The problem with using the amnesty on CV is that it does almost nothing of import for the cap situation. We’d still be butting right up to it after cap holds for new picks.  

    The same is basically true for Gordon’s contract. Cutting him doesn’t put us far enough below the cap line to do anything that much more significant than our cap exceptions would without cutting him. 

    This isn’t really an opinion, either. When you do the simple math with regards to how much money the Pistons have committed + cap holds for picks, and you get very little flexibility, even after the amnesty.

    Oh yeah, don’t forget Rip’s buyout and its impact on the cap.

    The great salary chart that you guys have up makes this plain as day: http://www.pistonpowered.com/salary-chart/

    Per your estimates, with options and holds, we’re looking at ~$55 million. Shamsports has us at $63 million committed. 

    Dumars has screwed this franchise so badly that not even the amnesty clause can help us.

    • Apr 24, 201211:53 am
      by gmehl

      Reply

      You are totally correct (with the $$$ figures) but i am sure most piston fans will be happy for Gores to just pay either CV or Gordon just to go away. On paper without either one of them we instantly look like a better defensive unit. I also agree with you that Tay shouldn’t of been resigned and more than likely Singler would of come back. JJ and Daye should of split the minutes at the 3 and Macklin could of got minutes at the 4 and 5. This would in turn of guaranteed us a top 3 pick in the draft while also making us players in free agency. We could of had a good shot at Anthony Davis, Thomas Robinson or Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. If we missed out on Davis or Robinson we could of gone after Hibbert or McGee.

    • Apr 24, 20125:32 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Were there really not many of us in agreement that the Tay contract was horrible? I don’t remember numbers, just that there was a very active back and forth. Maybe it was a just a very vocal few. What I could never believe was that it was the one Dumars move that Laser found praiseworthy.

  • Apr 24, 201211:37 am
    by Moe

    Reply

    no we need tay if we use it on anyone cv3 is the one. he has talent but not for our toughness and hard work system. since he got here he really hasnt worked up to expectations.

  • Apr 24, 201211:38 am
    by gmehl

    Reply

    Lets get something straight here no team in the league is going to trade for Gordon or CV unless we take back a player like Andre Blatche. Apart from Gores having to pay up an amnestied players money early i think all piston fans will be happy just to see either Gordon or Villanueva amnestied just to show us all that we are moving in the right direction. It would also be a step in the right direction for Joe to admit that he failed on both signings (which will never happen). One way this franchise will lose even more fans is if the amnesty is not used at all. Heck i am still angry they didn’t use it at the start of this season on CV who didn’t play much at all anyways. Finally who ever believes what comes out of Langlois mouth anyway. He would look you in the eye and tell you that CV and Gordon will make the all-nba first team if he had to and not even blink.

  • Apr 24, 201212:20 pm
    by Eric

    Reply

    Resigning prince equals drafting ninth.

  • Apr 24, 201212:39 pm
    by Corey

    Reply

    I don’t understand statements like ” Dumars hasn’t even admitted BG and CV were bad signings”. Of course they have worked out badly. Everyone knows it. What’s the value of him saying it? Badmouthing his players publicly while they are under contract would be stupid. I also don’t see the value of amnestying a player this summer to no benefit. As had been said, they won’t have the cap space this summer for a free agent even if they use the amnesty. So why use it? BG is overpaid, but if they amnesty him then then need to sign another guard. Unless maybe if Maxiel leaves this summer, it might be worth it. Better to keep their powder dry and save the amnesty for the summer of 2013. Unless they make a stupid mid-level exception signing this summer, they can have serious cap space in 2013 by using the amnesty. Rip and maxiel will be off the books. They’ll know how good this Year’s lottery pick will be by then. And all the teams with cap space this summer will have already used it.

    • Apr 24, 20125:36 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Well if you’re gonna use it next summer anyway, why not use it a year earlier? It only creates more flexibility. Maybe not cap space, unless there are other moves, but another opening on the roster and more ability to make moves without approaching luxury tax. And even the possibility of cap space if another unexpected move does come along.

      Basically, if he is gonna use it in 2013, the only reasons not to do it in 2012 are either he really wants that player for another year or he hasn’t yet decided who to get rid of.

  • Apr 24, 20122:17 pm
    by Mark

    Reply

    Honestly if they don’t use it, I’m going to very angry at a team thats finally starting to win me back.

    Fans are tired of hearing this line about, “trying to trade players first”. We’ve been hearing this since 2010 with Rip. This past deadline made it crystal clear that nobody wants our players. IMO, that line about trying to trade them first is just that – a stalling tactic for fans – while the organization waits out the contract so they don’t have to spend any extra money.

    The only reason they agreed to finally buy out Rip was because it really didn’t cost them anything, as he took less, and the Bulls covered most of the rest.

    I thought we would be seeing a different approach this year, after them having a year to evaluate. I thought they’d be excited to amnesty someone, and get some cap space to go spending on FA’s. Turns out its likely the same BS once again. Spend no money, bring the same team back and add 1 draft pick thats cheap. ugh

    • Apr 24, 20125:27 pm
      by Justin

      Reply

      Buying out RIP left a cap hit of 8.5 million this year and 6 million dollars next year…so it did cost them, just not the 12.5 this year and 12.5 next year he was owed. What the Bulls paid him has nothing to do with the Pistons buy-out. I also hope the pistons do something to shake up this roster, I agree with Dan that this post is likely deception on the Pistons part while they try to swing a trade.

  • Apr 24, 20122:18 pm
    by Mark

    Reply

    Its honestly a joke at this point if they really still believe they can trade BG/CV.

  • Apr 24, 20122:46 pm
    by Corey

    Reply

    The point is that amnestying BG or CV this year won’t give them enough money to sign a free agent who costs more than the mid-level. So it’s not possible to sign a new player because they amnesty one. It could be useful in 2013, but that’s no reason to exercise it this year.

    • Apr 24, 201210:16 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      No the point is that we would be players in free agency if we didn’t resign Tay. That is the one and only point i think all of us are seeing.

  • Apr 24, 20125:22 pm
    by Justin

    Reply

    Another reason to use the amnesty, on say, Ben Gordon, would be to put the Pistons in position to bid on Amnesty candidates from other teams, as teams over the cap cannot bid on amnestied players. I’m not sure who the candidates would be in 2012-2013, but if the Pistons got a good feel that a desirable player would be amnestied, a small bid may net them a high reward. The LA Clippers did land Chauncey Billips this season for only $2,000,032 (seriously), so the Pistons could lock in a good player at a very small rate using this method, assuming anyone decent gets amnestied.

    • Apr 24, 20125:32 pm
      by Justin

      Reply

      For example, if the Mavericks were to amnesty Brendan Haywood (I’m just making this up) this off-season, and the Pistons bid say 3 million a season, and won, they could lock him in for the remaining four years of his contract at 3 million a season, much lower than his market value. I think a situation like this one would be the Pistons best case scenario when using the Amnesty on BG or V.

  • Apr 24, 20127:03 pm
    by Jodi Jezz

    Reply

    lol, can I get some credit for saying the Pistons will NOT use the amnesty clause at all! I’ve said that like 3 times on this website…You have to be an idiot to have thought Dumars would use the amnesty clause on his players when he has always shown a soft spot in his heart for his players…I think it’s likely we trade our player, but not use the amnesty clause on them…

  • Apr 24, 20128:22 pm
    by Corey

    Reply

    The idea of bidding on someone else’s amnestied player is a good one. I do hope they find a way to shake things up and improve the team at something faster than a slow plod.

    *dreams of Dumars bring creative and aggressive for the first time in years.*

  • Apr 25, 201212:37 am
    by 2Tough

    Reply

    I think the Pistons should consider amnestying Stuckey this summer.

  • Apr 25, 20122:06 am
    by BIGMARV

    Reply

    This is a joke if they keep these guys for another year expect another fail season and also expect to lose the little fans they had or tried to gain back. I’m a die hard Pistion fan but if this happens im sorry I will not be rooting for this team no more I will be a bandwagon fan when they get back on track its getting too depressing.

  • Apr 25, 20128:51 am
    by Justin

    Reply

    Players that were signed after the new CBA was ratified (Rodney Stuckey, Tankshaun prince) are not eligible to be amnestied. Players can, however, be cut and their cap hit spread across multiple seasons (No. of Seasons multiplied by two plus one), but Stuckey has played well and Tankshaun is decent enough to not warrant cutting and paying to not play. Sorry. :/

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