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Will the Pistons make a deadline move?

During the ongoing series of 3-on-3 debates we’ve been having about the individual trade value of each member of the Pistons over the last week, I’ve become more skeptical that the Pistons will actually make a move at the deadline. There are few teams that are buyers and there are only a few Pistons that would seem to be enticing enough for other teams to go after. The guys at Hardwood Paroxysm recently had a roundtable on all things trade deadline and Noam Schiller thinks the Pistons could make a move though:

The Detroit Pistons have to be thinking about something, right? There’s no way things can go on like this. Greg Monroe is a monster in the making who needs two more years before he stops getting killed defensively, Rodney Stuckey has become underrated while working under a blanket of obscurity, Jonas Jerebko has hustled into each and every one of our hearts, and Brandon Knight will become a very good player when he stops being awful.

Other than that, though? Where does this roster begin and end? Why can’t Austin Daye make shots? Why is Damien Wilkins still in the league? Has anybody seen Ben Gordon since 2009? Is Jason Maxiell really the 5th best player on an NBA team? Joe Dumars has had some strong draft picks, but they’ve appeared too scarcely among a series of move too disastrous. This season is a unibrow-hopeful throwaway as is – might as well get started with the cleanup.

Honestly, I think the Pistons would love to rid themselves of a burdensome contract or three at the deadline, but I just don’t see it happening. Too many years left on most of those contracts and too much underperformance in most cases to justify taking those risks. But if a player is going to be traded, I think it will probably be Daye. He’s played poorly, but he’s still on his rookie deal and still has enough upside despite those struggles that another team may have some interest.


  • Mar 12, 201211:51 am
    by Domnick


    i agree about trading Austin Daye because he is the easiest player to be moved… I’ve been thinking about it quite a long time… and do you think we can trade him for Chase Budinger? sorry if you’re not happy about what I want but I think it is worth a shot as Budinger is more productive than Daye…

    • Mar 12, 201211:53 am
      by Patrick Hayes


      I don’t see why Houston would consider that. As you say, Budinger is more productive.

      If Daye is traded in a one for one deal, it will probably have to be for a similar player — first round pick who hasn’t met expectations, with both teams hoping changes of scenery will be mutually beneficial.

      • Mar 12, 201211:56 am
        by Domnick


        well im saying that.. coz Budinger is stuck on the bench as Parson is starting up… so I would think it is worth a try if Joe Dumars wants to… hmmmm i dont know.. but I’d love to try catching this fish

        • Mar 12, 201212:19 pm
          by Patrick Hayes


          Well, if Budinger is stuck on the bench, that wouldn’t bode well for Daye since they play the same position.

          Also, the trade won’t work one for one because Daye is making about $1.9 million this year while Budinger only makes about $850k. Houston would have to include another small salary to make it work.

          • Mar 12, 20121:07 pm
            by Domnick

            ok… how about cash considerations.. if they can’t provide 1 M player? :( hehe

      • Mar 12, 201211:58 am
        by Domnick


        hmmm and if HOUSTON offers back Terrence Williams… are you going to be ok with that? I’m not… im gonna dump that kid out of our bench.. he’s a bad fish

        • Mar 12, 201212:33 pm
          by Sebastian


          Oh contrare, Mr. Domnick that would be the trade I would make: Daye for T. Will. Terrance WIlliams would bring a toughness to OUR roster. He could become the man off the bench that could potential guard three positions (pg, sg, and sf). Adding T. Will to OUR guard rotation makes US better.

          Do ti Joe!: Austin Daye for Terrance Williams. Heck and while you are at it move Tay and the rights to Kyle Singler  and swap the lowest of Houston’s two 2012 second round picks for OUR 35th 2012 Second Round pick for Hasheem Thabeet and Jordan Hill.


    • Mar 12, 20121:41 pm
      by tarsier


      I would love to see him moved for a similarly disappointing player. Dunno who that would be though. Maybe Cole Aldrich except that I don’t think OKC could find a use for Daye. Maybe trade Daye for a second rounder from somebody.

  • Mar 12, 201211:58 am
    by Tiko


    Robin Lopez comes to mind

  • Mar 12, 201212:11 pm
    by Lee


    As you guys my remember we drafted Budinger that same year in the Second round and gave him up to houston for a extra draft pick (Jebreko) but we also drafted that BUST from Georgetown that year as well and he is no longer on the team….I knew we should have kept Budinger!!!!

    • Mar 12, 201212:22 pm
      by Patrick Hayes


      Nope, that’s not the trade. Pistons got Jerebko with one of the two second rounders they got from Toronto in the Delfino trade. Those picks became Jerebko and Kyle Singler.

      The Pistons picked Budinger specifically because they had a trade for that pick worked out with Houston already and that’s who Houston wanted. The Pistons had four picks that year, but only planned on carrying three rookies on the roster. They traded the Budinger pick for a future pick. The Pistons get Houston’s second round pick this year as a result of that trade.

      • Mar 12, 20122:10 pm
        by frankie d


        the budinger trade ranks with some of dumars worst moves.  and he’s had a bunch of them.
        not saying that budinger is a great player – he’s a good rotation player who ultimately may evolve into a starter on a playoff team – but there really was no logic to making the trade.
        sure, you might not want to keep 4 rookies on the squad, but there are ways to have handled that issue.
        also, budinger being available at the pick, late in the second round, was incredible value.  here’s a guy who was projected by some as a lottery pick,   acknowledged as a very talented player who just might do exactly what he’s done as a pro.  (the conjecture about his pluses/minuses have been pretty much right on target.)
        and he’s sitting there, easy pickings for a team just starting a “rebuilding” phase… just starting to turn its team’s roster over. 
        and you give him away for another second round pick which will likely be lower than the one you traded?
        so you’d rather pick up chuckie atkins later on – signed to a contract almost 3 times as much as budinger made his rookie year – and have him fill out that roster, rather than accumulate young talent that you might be able to use in some capacity.
        the move smacks of so much of what has gone wrong with dumars’ teams over the last 6 or 7 years.
        dumping young talent for zip.
        wasting roster spots on retreads who are just trying to get that one last paycheck.
        and often and not coincidentally, essentially gifting guys with that nice last contract, guys who you have a long personal relationship with, at the expense of providing young players a shot.  chucky atkins – a player i love and who made me a rabid fan again with his tough play back in the day – but a guy barely hanging on when joe signed him to fill out his roster the same year he traded budinger.  i’d much rather have a talented rookie fill that spot, than a retread vet.  and yes, i know he was brought in to be a backup point guard, but they already had stuckey and bynum and gordon so they had enough guys to fill that role.  and a halfway competent backup can always be scrounged up out of the d -league in an emergency. 
        walker russell? again, a guy the team has had a long relationship with, a guy whose dad is a former teammate of dumars, a guy with zero long term prospects with the team.  instead of finding hungry young players with a possible upside, he brings in a freakin 29 year old rookie.  what a joke.
        even ben w. ? while other guys like ben w. are getting the minimum, joe d ties up a lot more on a guy who should be an emergency player.
        cronyism at its worst, and one of the reasons the team has been mired in its rut. 
        as i wrote, budinger is no superstar, but now, three years later, he is a nice young player with trade value.  other teams look at him and they may trade for him.
        chucky atkins? walker russell? other retreads who are now out of the league?
        good luck trying to get anything for them.

        • Mar 12, 20123:24 pm
          by Patrick Hayes


          “the budinger trade ranks with some of dumars worst moves.  and he’s had a bunch of them.
          not saying that budinger is a great player – he’s a good rotation player who ultimately may evolve into a starter on a playoff team – but there really was no logic to making the trade.”

          Haha, there goes my least favorite of the “OMG Dumars is so incompetent” memes.

          - The Pistons weren’t going to keep four rookies. If they used that pick on Budinger, one of their three non-guaranteed contract second rounders would’ve got cut in camp in all likelihood.

          - Since that was the case, here are the three options: draft a player who you will bring to camp, taking the risk that you might have to cut a rookie due to having a full roster; draft a player who won’t mind staying overseas; roll the modest asset over into a future modest asset by trading the pick for a future pick.

          Honestly, the Pistons had zero interest in Budinger. Debate that however you want, but a lot of teams didn’t have interest in the guy, which is why he fell to the late second round (also, he plays garbage defense, which is inexcusable for how big and athletic he is). It’s not like they drafted him and said “Ah, we think this guy will suck, let’s trade him.” They had prearranged to trade that pick to Houston. Like most draft day trades, it wasn’t finalized when the pick was due, so Houston said “draft Budinger for us.”

          Hem and haw all you want, but it just wasn’t a miss or bad move by Dumars. It was a sensible move and the move that most GMs would make in a similar situation. Second round picks are at their most valuable before a player is attached to them. Once you take a player, that player’s chances of making it onto a roster for more than a year or two are so small that it makes much more sense to continue rolling picks over the way Dumars did here. Yeah, Budinger is one of the few second round guys who turned into something, but I’m not going to question a sound strategy just because he happened to be the exception rather than the rule.

          • Mar 12, 20123:54 pm
            by tarsier

            Furthermore, in spite of Budinger being better than most second-rounders, I wouldn’t be in the least bit surprised if he could be had back for another second rounder. It might be a higher second rounder, but that’s a small price to pay for removing the risk in a second round draft pick. And just about every player who gets taken in the second round was at some point (not too long before the draft) at least in the teens or low twenties on some mock drafts. It just goes to show how much of a crap shoot the draft becomes after the guys with superstar potential.

          • Mar 12, 20124:51 pm
            by frankie d

            hah, patrick,
            you just explained why it was a bad move.
            what joe did was just your typical, by rote, BS GM move.
            and why is it ok for guys to get by doing the typical, by rote, BS GM move.  especially when doing so has contributed to the team’s demise. maybe if they had not just done what every other GM would have done, the last 3 years would not have been so painful.
            why not keep 4 draft choices?  is there a rule that says you can’t?
            would a team be better off with a soon retiring chucky atkins or a rookie budinger making 1/3 the salary?
            is chucky atkins or chase budinger worth more now, in 2012.
            if the trade was not finalized – as it obviously was not – then why not say, hey, we’ve had a change of heart and we think we are going to keep that pick.  sorry.
            budinger was the best player on one of the best teams in the country.  he was a guy who had slid.  faced with the chance to draft that player, i do something outside of the box and keep the pick and draft him.  and figure out what to do with him later.
            a couple of things are certain…budinger is certainly a better player, now, than either daye or summers and he’s not that far behind jerebko.
            and you can bet that after acquiring him and keeping him around for a couple of years, and developing him, if houston trades him, as is rumored, they will get more than the 45th pick, second rounder, that they paid for him.
            again, trading that pick, under those circumstances is just symbolic of lazy, by rote, by the numbers thinking.  the kind of thinking and laziness that really hurt the team for years.
            everybody does it, or would have done it, so it’s ok.
            well, the team is lousy, largely because dumars fell into that pattern and trading that pick in those circumstances is exactly the type of move that lazy, bad teams make in those situations.

          • Mar 12, 20124:57 pm
            by tarsier

            No reason a team can’t have four rookies. But it is totally conceivable to prefer having 3 one year and 3 another to having 4 one year and 2 another. Just easier to assess and optimally use. And that is what the trade was. A 2nd rounder one year for a 2nd rounder another year. Who knows who Dumars would have picked. Who knows who he will pick. But he made a lateral move for greater convenience–flipping a pick for a very comparable pick a couple years later. I’m not gonna praise him for it, but how was that bad GMing?

          • Mar 12, 20125:04 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            “what joe did was just your typical, by rote, BS GM move.”

            Yeah, rolling over 2nd round picks when there’s no player you like is such a bad strategy. That’s why known morons like Presti, Morey, Buford, Pritchard, etc. all do/have done it. Hell, this trade from Houston’s perspective is a perfect example of why it’s always a good idea to keep extra picks as long as you can. They liked Budinger and wanted him. They had a spare future pick to get him.

            “why not keep 4 draft choices?  is there a rule that says you can’t?”

            No. It’s pretty stupid though, unless you are purposely trying to bottom out (which the Pistons weren’t at the time b/c they had several long-term deals). I would gladly take four top 15 rookies at once. One top 15 rookie and 3 second round rookies at once? No thanks.

            “budinger was the best player on one of the best teams in the country.”

            HAHAHAHAHA. No he wasn’t. Hell, Jordan Hill, his teammate, was a lottery pick that year. Also, Budinger was a part of several Arizona teams that underachieved horribly.

            “and developing him, if houston trades him, as is rumored, they will get more than the 45th pick, second rounder, that they paid for him.”

            They really won’t. Are you sure we’re thinking of the same Chase Budinger? He’s one-dimensional. He shoots well off the bench. He’s not a starting caliber player. He’s basically James Jones. James Jones has been traded twice in his career, once for a second round pick and once for cash. Budinger’s value is at most, second round pick right now. That’s it. He’s a serviceable role player with not a lot of upside.

            “everybody does it, or would have done it, so it’s ok.”

            Sorry man. You’re just flat out wrong on this one. Second round picks are valuable assets. Players you pick in the second round are generally not.


          • Mar 12, 20125:50 pm
            by frankie d

            ok, patrick, we just might see what houston gets for him if they trade him.  it will be interesting if it happens.
            the issue, however, is not whether budinger is better than “x” potential choice out there somewhere in the future.  or as good or worse than james jones.  
            the question is what did you do with that roster spot instead of filling it with another rookie.  and in 2009, was a rookie budinger a better value than th other player – chucky atkins in this situation – who actually filled that spot.
            (and while i would not advise having all those rookies around, the team has finessed roster issues for years.  every team does it.  guys go on and off the injury list for god knows how many convenient injuries.  between d-league assignments and injury list manipulations, you could have drafted the four rookies and then tinkered with the game to game roster to make certain all 4 weren’t active at the same time.and by the way, houston did have 3-4 rookies on their roster all through that year.  they didn’t seem to mind… )are you saying that having chucky atkins on the roster is a better use of that spot than having a guy like budinger?  and you keep rolling those choices until you get a chance at a player who represents great value for that spot in the draft.  and i haven’t seen any draft analyst who doesn’t think that budinger was a great value at that spot in the draft.as i’ve said, i’m not saying budinger is all that.  what i do believe, however is that trading that pick was another example of really bad judgment and lazy process by dumars.
            and this is the bottom line…
            chucky atkins is retired and gone.  of no value whatsoever.
            budinger is a solid rotation player,, hitting .420 on 3′s.  houston has an asset they can now roll over.  the issue is not whether most second round picks are any good, the issue is that this one is pretty good, and detroit should have been able to figure that out.  after all he wasn’t some unknown from podunk college.  (jordan hill?  what the heck has jordan hill ever done?  budinger was the heart of that arizona team.)  he was a star on a major college team.
            i would bet that they get more than what they gave up for him.
            which hand would you rather hold: detroit’s or houston’s? 
            john hollinger did his all breakout team for 2012 and budinger was on it.
            this is what he said about budinger:

            Chase Budinger, Houston
            I have a bit more misgivings about this one because I don’t know if he and Kevin Martin can co-exist side-by-side as starting wings; one of them has to guard the opponent’s top wing scorer and zero of them are capable of doing so.
            Nonetheless, too many other factors are in Budinger’s favor. He averaged 14.4 points as a starter after the break a year ago, and he did it while finding much more efficient ways to score. If Budinger makes a decent share of 3s and draws an actual foul once in a while, his high-flying transition game should do the rest. Like a lot of guys on this list, he’s a 23-year-old third-year pro and primed for a move up the charts. He also rebounds like crazy for a wing and could average five rips a game this year.

            now, what has happened is that houston has picked up another high value second round pick who actually plays defense and has made budinger somewhat expendable.  
            there seems to be a pattern here…
            houston keeps getting good young players,  playing them and somehow find even better players.  and despite catastrophic injury problems over the last few years, they’ve stayed competitive and haven’t bottomed out like detroit.
            it seems as though they know what they are doing…

          • Mar 12, 20126:16 pm
            by tarsier

            And they got something for the Budinger pick. They didn’t lose anything by having Atkins. So sure, they could have picked up another undrafted rookie instead of Atkins, but Dumars thought they were a playoff caliber team. And he felt he needed a third PG as injury insurance. If you take issue with those ideas of his, specifically say so. But given that that was his reasoning, getting a veteran who could contribute spot minutes (or more in case of injury) was more valuable to Detroit than having another rookie to try to find minutes for. Especially given that said rookie was turned into a future pick.

          • Mar 12, 20126:22 pm
            by Patrick Hayes


            You’re forgetting something else here by harping on Atkins. He was a surprise to make the team. Why? Because they already had a fourth rookie, Deron Washington, in camp with them. So if they’d used that pick and took someone to camp, that’s potentially five rookies competing for spots.

            Now, Washington ended up being horribly undisciplined and got cut, but everything seemed to indicate they expected him to make the roster and Atkins to be just a courtesy training camp invite. Washington ended up sucking, they needed more PG help than they thought, so it worked out for Atkins to get a spot. But again, you are looking at this move with revisionism, as if their plan all along was to keep Atkins when it pretty clearly wasn’t.

          • Mar 12, 20128:10 pm
            by frankie d

            ahh…i forgot all about the deron washington fiasco.
            i think joe thought that washington was going to be able to come in and play defense on bigger guards, because of his excellent athleticism, but you are right, he was very unprepared for doing anything in the nba.  washington was supposed to be the defensive guard that afflalo was, but obviously he never panned out.   ( and where have you gone sammy meija!)  i think he caught on with milwaukee a while later.
            so, yes, that is true.
            so it actually was more a case of: first, bad judgment because he passed on budinger; and, then still a decision to go with an old vet rather than a young guy, a bad choice in my view.
            i still think they could have scrounged the d-league and come up with a better young option.
            for instance, sundiatha gaines was a guy the utah picked up out of the d-league in the middle of that season.  he was there for the taking.  he’s turned into a competent nba guard.  not great, but competent, and he’s hit some clutch shots in his short time in the league.  instead of signing a guy like atkins, i would rather see joe keep a spot open and use that spot as sort of a free floating roster audition spot.  if you need a guy, sign him to a 10 day contract, let him audition and go from there.
            what it comes down to is something i’ve talked about previously…instead of going with the old guys, give the young guys a shot and see what happens.  and yes, that also involves understanding what your franchise is doing, what the mission is, and joe obviously did not have a good understanding of what his club was going to be doing that year.  if he had, he would not have imagined that he needed a vet point guard for that upcoming playoff series.

  • Mar 12, 201212:13 pm
    by Lee


    I wasn’t complaining about Jebreko…I love him he was a steal!!! our other 2 picks are the one’s that hasn’t panned out!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Mar 12, 20121:30 pm
    by neutes


    What on earth would we trade Daye for? A 2nd round pick? I think Bynum is another trade possibility. And Maxiell if it’s the right offer. Daye and Bynum could net you a $6-7 millionish return if packaged together. The only trades I can see are straight giveaways for 2nd rounders though. I wouldn’t really want a return unless it’s a swap of under performing players on rookie deals. I’d pretty much only want players on rookie deals, and not restricted year deals, if a player was the return.

    • Mar 12, 20123:26 pm
      by Patrick Hayes


      Second rounder or under-performing first round pick still on his rookie contract. That’s all Daye likely gets in a one for one.

      He doesn’t have much trade value, but he’s a 6-11 (alleged) shooter who is still really young. If the Pistons wanted to cut ties, they’d get something minimal for him. Probably nothing that would help much in the long run, but at least teams probably won’t hang up the phone on Dumars like they would if he calls them up offering Gordon/Villanueva for assets.

  • Mar 12, 20121:45 pm
    by tarsier


    I’d never thought about the fact that Maxiell may actually be the 5th best player on this team. It definitely has to be Monroe then Stuckey. But after that, there is a whole pile of similar dudes. How do you determine who is better of Prince, Knight, Maxiell, Jerebko, Gordon, and Wallace?

    • Mar 12, 20123:28 pm
      by Patrick Hayes


      Here’s my order:

      • Monroe
      • Stuckey
      • Jerebko/Prince/Knight (too close to call)
      • Maxiell (he’d be above the other three if he wasn’t so terrible to start the season)
      • Gordon (ugh)
      • Wallace (just doesn’t play enough)
  • Mar 12, 20123:10 pm
    by Coach_Ackley


    I’ll tell you what I’d trade Daye for Robin Lopez and why would  do that trade well it’s simple Daye isn’t gonna help this team he hasn’t since he was drafted so why not take a flier on Lopez and see if he can help us and if he can then it was a good trade and if not then just dont match any offers he gets in the offseasen and he will get offers cuz he has size 7’0″ 255lbs that you just cant teach oh and he isonly 23 so age is on his side as well……

    • Mar 12, 20124:05 pm
      by tarsier


      Detroit would almost certainly have to throw in some more to make that deal happen. But I’d be happy with giving up Detroit’s second rounder and Daye for Lopez.

  • Mar 12, 20124:22 pm
    by Laser


    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: If Joe can’t make any deals happen, he just needs to go already. He’s been driving this ship into the ground for three-plus seasons running. Nobody on this roster got here by accident; Joe brought them here. Every last one of them. Signed them, assessed their value and gave them contracts. The team has been terrible, is a virtual lock to lose 2/3 of its games, and Joe can’t do anything to improve our situation? Nothing? What’s he there for??

    To everyone who says he deserves a chance to fix his mess, this is his chance. This is it. He’s getting his chance, and smart money says he can’t or won’t do anything. Time to start churning out more excuses for the guy, I guess…

    • Mar 12, 20124:31 pm
      by Patrick Hayes


      It’s not making excuses to say that most teams probably don’t want the crappy contracts he’s handed out. It’s being realistic about the situation and the trade market right now. That may change in a year or so, with less money remaining, when those contracts become less crappy.


    • Mar 12, 20124:43 pm
      by tarsier


      Actually, the best defense for his keeping his job is the “who do you replace him with” argument. Sometimes, another team won’t agree to a deal that helps both sides. And this year, Joe D really has less to work with than last year (when dealing Prince or TMac was a no-brainer). I’m all for ditching the man but I’m doubting very many GMs could make a good move for this roster right now. Most of the best options are lateral moves that are 50/50 to help or hurt (like CV for Blatche or Daye for Hickson) and you still gotta get the other guy to agree on those.

    • Mar 13, 20122:34 pm
      by Max


      Laser admitted in a previous thread that he thought it was time for Dumars to make a move just to say he’d made a move.   Laser just couldn’t be more impatient so I just take his words as being emotional charged.  It’s not like he offers an idea, strategy or possible trade.  He just complains, blames and attacks.

  • Mar 12, 20125:04 pm
    by frankie d


    i’ve changed my view of trading for blatche.
    if i could get mcgee in a package, i’d do it.
    mcgee and blatche for any combo of players, starting with tay and not including knight or monroe or stuckey.  
    not sure if washington is that desperate to get rid of blatche, but if i could get mcgee i’d gamble on blatche for the benefit of getting mcgee.   as long as i don’t have to trade knight or monroe or stuckey.  (i’d be flexible with stuckey, though, depending on the trade’s specifics.  washington, however, does not need a guard like stuckey.  with nick young and jordan crawford, they’re well stocked at the 2.)
    washington desperately needs a vet on the team, and tay could fill that void.  they get 2-3 decent years out of him on the floor and his “leadership” helps to stabilize a sketchy team.    by the time tay is ready to be replaced, the team is, with john wall, ready to compete and they can find another, SF.  or singleton is ready to replace him by that point.   they get  their vet, they get rid of a huge headache in blatche and they move on from mcgee.  just not sure how much they need to include mcgee.
    this is hopeless wishful thinking, as i doubt joe will ever trade tay, but one never knows.
    i would, however, be willing to gamble on blatche…if i could get mcgee.  mcgee, imho, with proper coaching, could solve detroit’s frontcourt issues.

    • Mar 12, 20125:25 pm
      by tarsier


      Who wouldn’t take that? But Detroit can’t get McGee without either Monroe or their first rounder.

    • Mar 13, 20122:36 pm
      by Max


      I wouldn’t trade Scott Hastings for McGree.

  • Mar 12, 20126:13 pm
    by rick77


    Why not Tarsier? I hear Washington is not signing him to a long term deal so why would Detroit have to give up anything? It would be in Washingtons best interest to take what they can get or face over paying him this summer when he is restricted and a team can sign him with Washington matching or do a sign and trade and get something in return. I would take him over Blatche. I find it funny that people would take him(Blatche) and get rid of Tay considering he has been a malcontent and the team wants to get rid of him. I wanted him two years ago but he has since faded and why would I want him around my young team considering he has been around 7years and has not figured it out yet? Another reason for people to get mad at Joe.Now as far as this Chase Budinger thing goes give it a rest. Dude is not the Pistons savior he is not even close to being Jon Barry good so please give Dumars a break. yeah some thinsg have not worked out but lets be realistic about second round picks and their value. Hindsight is 20/20 and feel a lot of comments are hindsight based off current value and not what was going on back then.

    • Mar 12, 20126:19 pm
      by tarsier


      You could be right. but I’ve herd nothing of the sort. And I assume that Washington’s GM is at least smart enough to recognize that McGee has significant value. Someone would be willing to give up much more than Tayshaun for him.

      • Mar 12, 20127:49 pm
        by rick77


        Im pretty sure it was in the bleacher report a few weeks back around the time the Pistons played Washington. It stated something along the lines of Washington not talking long term commitment. You can probably take the report with a grain of salt but it was interesting to say the least considering he is from the area. I think Detroit could swing a deal for maybe a second rounder and Daye. Dont know how that would work out but something I would consider. Nice athletic big man. Maybe do it by trade deadline and get him around Wallace for remainder of season to get his head straight. I kow that sounds eternally optimistic but why not? Not talking playoffs but camraderie and cohesiveness. Something to build on in the offseason. 

    • Mar 12, 20126:28 pm
      by Patrick Hayes


      I agree with your point that this move was insignificant and not something that should be held against Dumars,  but this is wrong:

      “Dude is not the Pistons savior he is not even close to being Jon Barry good”

      Budinger is certainly Jon Barry good. Jon Barry did one thing above average — knock down threes. Budinger also does that thing equally well, plus his size for a guard, athleticism and age all suggest he’s at the very least going to have as good a career as Barry if he stays healthy and likely surpass him if he realizes any of his upside at all.

      Again, you’re right that the move wasn’t a mistake on Dumars’ part. Second rounders rarely pan out, Budinger just happened to, so you tip your cap to him and move on. Doesn’t mean Dumars dropped the ball. In fact, he has a chance to use the pick he acquired for him this year and who knows, maybe he strikes it rich and finds the gem of the second round with it. Then, hopefully, people will stop complaining about Budinger.

      • Mar 12, 20127:44 pm
        by rick77


        I think you get the gist of my argument Patrick as far as it concerns the move when he made it. My brother actually was a Budinger fan and told me he would be solid. My point about not being Jon Barry good has everything to do with his father being a coach and having those coacheable intangibles along with having pedigree in the family. This is not to say that Budinger cannot hoop because I do feel that Budinger can hoop and probably would be a good member on Detroit. My main point was why are people upset that we let him go? It is not like he is ripping it up playing for McHale in Houston. He probably would play the three but other than that I just cannot rip Dumars on that move. In short if the argument was why not go young completely and take Budinger as a backup and not sign Gordon when we did then maybe I would say that is a decent reasonn to be upset because it would have us in good position as far as young pieces go but that is not the argument I am hearing. What do you think about that Patrick?

        • Mar 12, 20128:23 pm
          by frankie d


          budinger is a symbol of similar moves by dumars.  
          passing on talent that should be a no-brainer.  dumping talented young  players for nothing.  stuff like that.
          joe d has been shockingly cavalier about preserving young assets – young players, draft choices – and it appears that he figures that he can just always go out and sign a vet to do what a discarded young guy would have done.
          (i was a budinger fan also.  i’m here on the west coast and he was one of the better players in the pac 10.   
          imho, the odds of a guy like budinger making it were pretty high simply because he was such a good shooter.  the elite college shooters who don’t make it usually don’t make it because they are too short or two unathletic and can’t get their shot off.  because budinger was such a good athlete, it was pretty clear that his shooting skill was going to continue on at the next level.  which is exactly what has happened.)
          so for me, bnudinger really isn’t the issue- even though i think it was a boneheaded move and has proven to be so; if houston gets a first round pick for him in a trade it’ll be an even more boneheaded move – as much as he simply is a symbol for a way of doing business that has been wrongheaded and wasteful.  and i think the record has pretty much shown that to be true.

  • Mar 12, 20126:58 pm
    by zach


    GO GET HOWARD DUMARS!!!!!! HAHA dreaming aren’t I. That would be cool though if they could but they dont have anyone to trade to make him come to motown!

  • Mar 13, 20123:10 pm
    by Max


    I don’t know if it’s possible but Dumars should be trying to acquire any of Utah’s bigs, or Josh Smith and should only be holding back Monroe as an untouchable.

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