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Joe Dumars had no desire to give away Austin Daye, stresses patience

Vincent Goodwill of The Detroit News:

Dumars on Austin Daye: "It’s not a guy you just give away. You see his body, if he can get stronger, he can play. You get him to eat."

Joe D on Stuckey: "It’s a bad word in sports but sometimes it takes patience. giving up on a guy after a couple years, you can’t do that."

More on Stuckey: Sometimes it takes patience with a guy, when it doesn’t happen the first couple years, the answer isn’t ‘get rid of him’.


  • Mar 16, 20129:50 pm
    by gmehl


    “You get him to eat”
    Oh Joe we all know you can help him in that area. Why don’t you get Austin to stay with you in the off season like Jerebko did with Kander when he was rehabbing his achilles. Oh you better scratch that cause Daye might come back looking like Eddy Curry.

  • Mar 16, 201210:26 pm
    by Max


    A possibly underrated aspect of Daye’s struggles this season was his playing in Russia and failing to put on weight this past summer.

  • Mar 16, 201210:55 pm
    by domnick


    crap with Joe… he is just making excuses

  • Mar 17, 20123:10 pm
    by frankie d


    good to see joe d is thinking with a clear head on daye.
    while i think they’ve handled him abysmally this year, at least he’s not going to dump him for peanuts.
    this fan has no problem trading daye.  i just don’t want him to be traded while he is at the lowest point in his value.
    glad to see joe d apparently has no intention of doing that.
    at least at this point….

    • Mar 17, 20129:02 pm
      by domnick


      the only problem of retaining a guy like him is just like we already had a minus one guy on our Roster… meaning its like he doesnt count to our Roster…
      I would certainly welcome any trade to Daye.. and would get a 2nd rounder that can be developed as a better player than Daye…
      its funny with JOE D about Daye saying.. you get him to Eat … why they haven’t fed him for so long?

  • Mar 17, 20129:28 pm
    by frankie d


    if you cut anyone off your roster, it should be a guy like wilkins.
    he’s horrible. and he can be replaced at any time. there are d league guys right now who are better players than wilkins.
    all you’d need to do is audition a couple of guys on 10 day contracts and find a guy you’d want.
    daye has value, as evidenced by the fact that other teams were apparently trying to steal him from the team in a trade.
    as i’ve said before, if you’re going to trade him, try to get his value up and then trade him. every team in the league does that before they trade a player.
    they play him, showcase him and show anyone interested that the player has some value.
    driving a young player’s value down – if you have any interest in trading him – by gluing him to the bench is just a dumb thing to do.

    • Mar 18, 20123:19 am
      by Max


      Dude, do you boo every time Wilkins scores or something?
      The guy was an unexpected training camp make, he earned a spot in the rotation and has played somewhere between serviceable and decent basketball most nights in limited minutes which is much more than Daye can say about the minutes he has played.    From Wilkins’ position coming in, that is doing a pretty good job and more than anyone expected.   Why harp on his presence with such vitriol?  He badly beat out a younger player who was given more of a chance at the beginning.  That’s a good on Wilkins.  This isn’t like Michael Curry starting in front of Prince and that actually worked out pretty well. Why should anyone be cut anyway at this point?
      I swear, do you want to lose every game?  Daye is simply horrible this year.  Tony Douglas is probably a decent player and has a future but like a lot of players. not this year.  Hopefully, Daye will turn it around but he sucked about as bad as a player can in his minutes this year and no player, not even an established star would have continued to play with how badly he was playing.  If Kyrie Irving had played as badly as Daye did in his minutes, they would have had to sit his ass down too and tell the media he wasn’t ready.  If Kobe Bryant had played like Daye, he would probably have retired to everyone’s murmuring approval that he was making the right decision. It happens.  Johnny Flynn was the third or fourth pick in the whole draft and teams didn’t just throw him out there because they viewed him as an asset when there were other players clearly playing better than him.  They sat him and traded him and he has yet to work out anywhere.
      And for all of this, the Pistons have treated him much better and have done more to build his confidence than anyone did for Johnny Flynn.  Even now, Dumars quotes continue to show that he values Daye.   Ultimately, the new coach gave Daye a chance after the yearly tease Daye gives in the preseason.  It didn’t work out and I’m sure Frank didn’t want to lose a historic number of games again like he did in New Jersey.  He is giving plenty of minutes to then youngsters and is not starting the team’s highest paid player.  This all ultimately comes down to winning and how can you disagree with Frank trying to win?

      • Mar 18, 20125:09 pm
        by frankie d


        wilkins is not a better player than daye.
        he is the rare bad player who actually looks worse the more you examine his numbers.
        check out his advanced stats over at basketball reference.
        daye has a 6.6 PER, wilkins a 6.8.
        daye has better numbers in most areas, the only area wilkins has better numbers is shooting percentage.
        ironically, because wilkins is supposedly a better defensive player, daye has better rebounding (his defensive rebounding numbers are far superior to wilkins), blocks and defensive rating, 106 to 109 for wilkins.
        the idea that wilkins has played better is belied by the numbers.
        considering a choice between the two players and considering their ages and any future role with the team, it makes no sense to continue to play wilkins.
        now, if they’d brought in a guy like terrance williams, no problem. let the young guys play. but having a retread eat up minutes for this team is ridiculous.

        • Mar 18, 20128:36 pm
          by Max


          The eye test is wholly more important than stats when judging defense as long as the person judging has a good eye.  You say Wilkins is only better in shooting pct but Daye has been horrendous in that area and shooting is his supposed skill.   For me, the real difference between the two players this year is that Wilkins is not that noticeable and basically fits in whereas Daye looks like a dear in headlights and it’s hard not to notice how tentative and lost he looks out there,    Individual numbers are one thing but when one player is consistently lost and tentative he will drag every five man combination he plays with down and Wilkins or any really any player who has stuck around past his rookie contract can do better than that no matter what their numbers are.   And Daye doesn’t just shoot worse, he shoots a lot more per minute.  Daye doesn’t know how to play like a garbage man role player and Wilkins does.

          • Mar 18, 20129:05 pm
            by frankie d

            okay max…i got it…
            the eye test, not advanced stats, is the way to determine a player’s value.
            y’know, i actually do agree with you.  often, what you see is more valuable than a statistical analysis.
            what is funny about wilkins, however, is that he’s supposed to be a role player, the kind of guy whose value transcends what you see or don’t see during the game.  sure, guys like him don’t necessarily look that impressive until you start to look deep into their numbers. bruce bowen is the ultimate example of that kind of player.
            the funny thing about wilkins is that when you start looking deep into his numbers, he is even more unimpressive, even worse than  he looks out on the court. 
            he’s one of the worst rotation players in the league.
            why joe and frank stay with the guy is mystifying.

          • Mar 18, 201211:47 pm
            by Max

            I did say I was talking about defense.  The problem with looking at stats to determine defense is that good team defense is predicated more by how well a player conforms to his team’s scheme than whether he gets steal, blocks or even stops his own man.  A player who puts up prolific blocks or steals can actually be a horrible team defender and his stats can even be an indication of his taking lots of chances that in total hurt his team.   Joe Dumars didn’t compile many steals or blocks but he was a great defender.

          • Mar 19, 201211:59 am
            by frankie d

            my understanding is that the defensive rating number that is used in the advanced stats over at basketball reference takes that into consideration.
            and daye has a better number than wilkins.
            i fully understand how, for example, a guard who constantly gambles on steals actually hurts his team defense because he often fails and is then out of position. i get that.
            but wilkins is not even a good team defender in that sense.  yes, he often starts out  in good position, but he will often attempt steals and gamble and put himself out of position remarkably often.   he is very aggressive and that ends up hurting the team as much as it helps.  he no longer has the kind of elite athleticism that allowed him to gamble and recover, but he still plays that way.
            again, his defensive rating in the advanced stats is lower than daye’s.
            he is not a good player.  the idea that you are trying to describe him as a good player is laughable.
            he is like the coach’s pet, the player who works hard and is rewarded for that effort, regardless of how well he does.
            again, daye is having a horrible season.
            but wilkins is also having a horrible season, but no one comments on it, as they just expect him to be a horrible player.

          • Mar 19, 20124:34 pm
            by Max

            I don’t think Wilkins is a good player.  I just think he is a more stabilizing player from what I have this year than Daye.
            If I had my druthers, you’d have your way to some extent too because I wouldn’t be playing him at all but I wouldn’t be playing Daye either.  I’d got with some combination of Jerebko, Stuckey and even Monroe or Maxiell at the backup 3 over Wilkins but Wilkins is a more conventional option than any of them.
            While I agree with your coach’s pet notion, I have more respect for it than you do.  Frank has a lot of coaching to do with young players who are getting a lot more minutes than Wilkins and so, in a proportional sense, Wilkins is a guy who can play some minutes without requiring a lot of Frank’s personal attention on either end.   Everyone attests to how hard Frank works but there are very few practices this year and he can’t devote his attention in his role as a teacher to all of the players all of the time.   Wilkins is a functional compromise and I’m not making any more out of him.  Boom!

          • Mar 19, 20124:38 pm
            by Max

            BTW: Tom “Patron Saint of Team Defense” Thibodeau was quoted today on the NBA Today podcast in response to a reporter’s asking him about the Bulls defensive numbers that he was more concerned about how they passed the eye test.

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