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Hollinger: Teams should trade for Austin Daye

John Hollinger of ESPN:

Austin Daye: The background stuff is all good — Daye is 23, under contract for a reasonable $2.9 million for next season and 6-11 with skill. There’s just the little matter of his shooting 30.1 percent this season, which has caused him to fall out of Detroit’s rotation entirely. I can’t just dismiss a 400-minute sample with a 6.67 PER; on the other hand, he was a viable rotation player in his first two seasons, and I have to think the Pistons’ glut of combo-forward types has made it more difficult for him to gain traction. A change of scenery might be good for everybody.

Rather than give away Austin Daye, who I still think has plenty of talent, I’d rather the Pistons keep him and try to change the scenery around him. His contract is small enough that, if that plan fails, it’s no huge setback.

But if another team offered value for Daye – say, a high second-round pick – I wouldn’t hesitate to trade him.

68 Comments

  • Mar 13, 201211:49 am
    by Collin Dimitroff

    Reply

    I don’t get why we would keep him. Honestly all he seems to be is a 3-point specialist that is 6″10. And his percentage is awful this year. I’ll take whatever we can get for him

  • Mar 13, 201211:54 am
    by Frey

    Reply

    I would trade him for JJ Hickson on Sacramento.  The Kings have a glut at PF and need depth at SF.  Both players are also around the same age, underperforming, but talented enough to take a risk on.

    • Mar 13, 201212:51 pm
      by BIGMARV

      Reply

      I agree on the Hickson thing cause also, he would be a valuable young big for this team that will be in heavy rotation.. damn trading daye for a pick, if you can get a player get a player. 2nd rd pick is not valuable at all in the NBA if this was the NFL then I would do it with no problems

  • Mar 13, 201212:01 pm
    by vic

    Reply

    ditto, i’d take a 2nd round pick in a  millisec.  could turn into jae crowder  or Draymond Green. Daye is a 2, and we really dont need him as long as we have Ben Gordon

  • Mar 13, 201212:27 pm
    by inigo montoya

    Reply

    I would be extremely hesitant to trade Daye for a high 2nd round pick, unless the pick was someone like Festus Ezeli.   Especially if his main problem is lack of confidence.

    One skill that Daye has that is not emphasized is his rebounding rate for a small forward. Last year only 6 small forwards had a better rate and his rebounding rate for 40 minutes was better than Lebron James rate.

    http://www.hoopdata.com/advancedstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pm&posi=SF&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=15

    If he can get his confidence back, tighten his handle, and gain some muscle; all things that should be doable as a Piston, he could be a major force.

    • Mar 13, 20126:50 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      You’re right, if Daye improved in every single way, he would be good.

  • Mar 13, 20122:05 pm
    by Max

    Reply

    Send Daye to summer league and give Frank a chance to coach him.

    • Mar 13, 20129:03 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      Max you are exactly right. How come this kid hasn’t been assigned to the d-league is puzzling considering the amount of DNP he has been getting since coach Frank shortened his rotation. I am not big on Daye ever fulfilling his potential but if he ever is he has to get some court time. I am assuming that maybe teams have a belief that if you send 1st round picks to the D-league it will ruin there value. The only problem with Daye is he doesn’t have much if any value. To tell you the truth I was worried when Daye went to Europe at the start of the year and underperformed. The sad thing about him is if he had of added some size to his frail frame in the off-season then you probably could of given some court time because he rebounds ok and would have to be respected for his outside shooting.
       
      I think if he isn’t showing signs of being here long term then the JJ Hickson trade would be awesome compensation for a blown 1st round pick…COUGH COUGH…Ty Lawson!

  • Mar 13, 20122:14 pm
    by Todd

    Reply

    Has Daye fallen so far that a high second round pick would be fitting for him? Wow! Lack of playing time, inconsistent rotations, and constant coaching turnover will sure crush the growth of a young player with the “p-word”!

  • Mar 13, 20122:19 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    trade daye? 
    sure.  for the right player or a mid-late first round choice.
    but why would a team ever make a trade it didn’t need to make, from a position of weakness?
    and trading daye now would be trading him from a position of weakness.
    daye is probably at the lowest value that he ever will have.
    the odds are that he will, given the proper opportunity, get out of his shooting slump.  eventually.
    (no shooter ever gets out of a slump on the bench.  any player needs to play and shoot in order to get out of their slump.) 
    at that point, i’d look to possibly move him, but not till then.
    a second round choice, even a high one, is not value.  imho.  
    teams should never simply dump players…just because.  
    and trading a player in the midst of a slump is one of the dumbest things a GM could ever do.
    teams should actually trade guys like maxiell, who is playing at the top of his game.  his market value is extremely high – relative to what it might typically be – and so you try to move him.  while he is playing well and is a good player, if the team is going to move to the next level, he’s going to have to be replaced in the starting lineup.  getting good value for him – or maybe more – like a first round choice, would go a long way towards finding his replacement. 
    remember, what hollinger is arguing is that other teams should trade for daye.   in other words, other teams should try to steal a talented young player from detroit at a moment when you might be able to get him for a cheap price.  for a team trading for daye, getting him for a second round choice would probably be a steal.  for detroit, simply another instance of wasting young talent and not getting value or good return on your initial investment.

    • Mar 13, 20126:57 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      It simply depends whether the Pistons see Daye as having a future with them. If they don’t they may as well get something.

      • Mar 13, 201211:52 pm
        by apa8ren9

        Reply

        If Daye isnt traded for something this year, his value in a trade actually goes up next year.  The Pistons already picked up his option and he will get 2.9mil in what is essentially his last year of the contract.  If he doesnt show anything by next year’s deadline I’m pretty sure Joe will throw him in a deal to someone and get a least a second rounder next year.  I personally believe, as much as he sucks now, they will give him training camp and the first 25 games of next season.  After that then he will have a roster spot and playing time or he will be figuring it out somewhere else.

        • Mar 14, 20129:52 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          How does his value go up? This isn’t an albatross of a deal on a washed up veteran we’re talking about. Daye’s value is all potential. And the longer he goes without realizing it, the less likely it is that he ever will. People on this site seem to really overestimate the value of an expiring deal. They are useful pieces for facilitating trades, but they don’t have value in and of themselves.

          • Mar 14, 20121:09 pm
            by apa8ren9

            If he doesnt have any value in a trade now as a player, then the value is in the contract.  He is getting paid more next year.  There in lies the value.  Now where we disagree is how much.  Its not a lot, but its an expiring deal for a new team.  If he works out for them they can resign him.  If not then nothing lost and you get a 3 million dollar cap relief.  Very little risk for the next team. I dont think we are disagreeing that much.

  • Mar 13, 20122:24 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    this is how hollinger describes the type of trade he is suggesting teams use to get daye.
    he calls it body snatching that can represent great value.  
    why on earth would a team like detroit – which should be acquiring as much talent as possible, allow themselves to be exploited in this fashion.  but then, i’m sure one of the reasons daye is included on this list is because dumars has repeatedly shown that he will be the “punked” team in this type of transaction.  other teams have snatched plenty of bodies from detroit over the years.
    joe’s reputation precedes him.
    “There’s a second category of trades that a few teams specialize in, and it’s one that’s especially useful for teams trying to fill out a roster or rebuilding squads looking to build their talent base. I call it “body snatching,” but the big-picture idea is to grab a promising player who has fallen out of favor with his current team. Often these players are available as throw-ins to a larger trade, and can represent some great value.”

  • Mar 13, 20122:31 pm
    by MysterChill

    Reply

    I’ve long wondered why the Pistons haven’t let the veterans go and see what these young players can do.  I believe that we will have a much better idea of Daye’s abilities if he were allowed to play 25+ minutes a night.  This season was over before it began, anyway.  Let the youth get out there and sink or swim; we know the team suck; what’s the point in Prince logging heavy minutes?  Why does Ben Wallace get any playing time?  And, if they sink, let them go and we’ll have a good position come next draft. :)

  • Mar 13, 20122:51 pm
    by rick77

    Reply

    If you dont know what you are getting with Daye then you are as blind as Ray Charles and Stevie wonder put together. In this article Im trying to find where Dumars is getting punked or even considering trading Daye. How do you figure he is not worthy of being traded? Daye is soft so giving him 25minutes a game will not all of a sudden make him a force in this league. That guy has to hit teh weights and learn to do other things besides score. I am not about to waste time trying to find out whether or not he gets it if a team wants deal for something reasonable.The one question I want to ask is what team has constantly gone to the final rounds of the playoffs and finals with young talent? I am willing to bet the avg age of teams that win titles in basketball hover at around 28-30years old. So this thing with young talent is really annoying because it has yet to be proven that a team with complete young talent can win championships. A nice mix of young and old I think helps more so than a team full of young players.

  • Mar 13, 20123:05 pm
    by Mark

    Reply

    I see no reason to keep him. He’s never going to add the necessary weight to play PF, and he’s too lanky and clumsy to play SF. Essentially, when his shots not going he’s useless, and when it is going he’s nothing more than a 3pt specialist you bring off the bench. I honestly wouldnt even care if he went somewhere else and succeeded because he wouldnt have done it here. So I wouldnt feel like we gave up too soon.

    ppl say you don’t want it to turn it like Afflalo/Amir, well I say those players are nothing special. All 3, AA/Amir/Daye are rotational pieces at best and are dime-a-dozen. The type that you can trade one day and replace the next with someone else to fill the same role. These aren’t All-Stars we’re talking about. Thus there should be no hesitation in trading them.

    • Mar 13, 20123:09 pm
      by Mark

      Reply

      Not to mention, he isn’t going to get any more PT next year with Singler coming. If he can’t even beat out Damien Wilkins now, he’s nothing special.

    • Mar 13, 20123:20 pm
      by frankie d

      Reply

      “The type that you can trade one day and replace the next with someone else to fill the same role.”
      so…if they are so easy to replace tell me this:
      who is the shooting guard who can hit 3′s and defend bigger guards like AA can?  please name that detroit piston.
      and who is the 6’10″ shotblocker/defender/rebounder on the front line, who has replaced amir,  the guy who does what amir is doing now?   please name that player.

      • Mar 13, 20125:13 pm
        by Chris H

        Reply

        Hopefully Uncle Festus when he is waiting there for us in the second round? :D

      • Mar 14, 201212:11 am
        by apa8ren9

        Reply

        Well, I believe that Stuckey can guard the bigger 2′s in the league and Knight can continue to develop the 3 point shot.  Kinda how Chauncey and Rip got down when they were part of the Pistions.  Oh yeah and with any kind of luck maybe your boy Macklin can develop into that shotblocker defender rebounder 6 10 guy with a summer league and training camp under his belt for next year.  Plus, I figure we more than likely will draft the best big available to us with our lottery pick.  We can hedge Macklin with that pick. His name is “first round pick 2012″

        • Mar 14, 20121:20 am
          by frankie d

          Reply

          BS.  
          i said who replaced those guys.
          if you get rid of a player, who have you brought in to replace him?
          i like stuckey, but he is no AA defensively.
          not even close.  AA is now regarded as one of the best defenders in the league.  maybe stuckey will get to that point, but he is not there now.  and, joe d has not brought in a player to perform that function.

          macklin as a replacement for amir?
          that is laughable.
          i like macklin and think he might have talent, but who knows.
          and he certainly is not playing 25 minutes a game in the nba, as amir is.
          nice try, but BS.

          • Mar 14, 20129:59 am
            by tarsier

            Afflalo had a contract year and a career year last season. Those things to tend to coincide. This year he has regressed a bit. His defense is still slightly better than Stuckey’s. But at this point, I think almost anyone would rather have Stuckey, who, besides being much better offensively has higher defensive potential. But even if he never realizes that potential, he is the better player.

            And yeah, Afflalo and Amir have not been replaced as of yet. But they are still merely role players. The point is that there are replacements out there who can be had without giving up too much (maybe not as good in every way but better in some others). You don’t generally want to give up useful players for nothing. But if they have some value, but now, due to changes in your team, are about to be buried on the bench, you may as well cash in on them before tanking their value.

          • Mar 14, 20121:30 pm
            by apa8ren9

            @frankie, if you dont think that Macklin can replace Amir then why do you keep championing him. Its not like Johnson is an allstar level.  25 mins a game  these are his stats from NBA.com
            2011-12 Statistics
            PPG7.6 RPG6.80 APG1.3 EFF+ 12.95
             
            You say Macklin cant replace Amir,that it is laughable (not even in the realm of possibility) then you say who knows– which one is it Frankie? If he cant replicate these stats or come close to them then why should he even be considered for playing time.  If the bar for Macklin is that low and he cant reach it. Why would we waste time developing him in your scenario? I really want to know because you seem to be talking out of both sides and if you could clarify I would appreciate it

          • Mar 14, 20122:35 pm
            by Max

            You don’t need to replace a player who doesn’t contribute anything.

          • Mar 14, 20124:46 pm
            by frankie d

            @apa8
            you seem to have a problem with basic reading comprehension as you continue to misrepresent what i write.
            in fact, your post above is so illogical that it is tough to respond.
            but i will try.
            my position on macklin has been simple and consistent: the team doesn’t know what he can do, and i certainly don’t know what he can do. the only way to find out what he can do in the nba is to put him on the court and let him play.
            i’ve never, ever said anything about him replacing amir, and the fact that you would imply that i ever said such a thing is simply dishonest.
            (my view is that he’ll be very different from amir, if he is successful. amir was a defensive-focused, rebounding shotblocker. from what little i’ve seen of macklin in college and the nba and what has been reported, macklin is much more of an offensive big man. personally, i’ve never thought that macklin could bring to the team what amir brought. and i’ve never said anything of the sort.)
            you have a very bad habit of taking what i write, adding your perspective to what i write and then proceeding as though i’d written what you perceive i’ve written. you can interpret what i write in any way you wish. but you seem to have a problem distinguishing between your interpretation and the actual substance of what i write.
            don’t you understand the difference?
            @ tarsier
            you essentially confirm what i’ve argued: that the team has not replaced AA and amir. i never sought to compare stuckey and AA. i did not do that. my point was simple: what players have replaced those two players since they were traded.
            you admitted that i was correct. this is your statement:
            “And yeah, Afflalo and Amir have not been replaced as of yet.”
            thanks.

  • Mar 13, 20123:52 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    A second round pick? I won’t bother to weigh whether that’s what he’s worth or if that would be best for the team…

    Because no way in HELL does Dumars make that move. Too much pride, too little smarts to dump his BOLD 15th overall pick, whom he mindlessly extended prematurely, for a second rounder. Never happen.

  • Mar 13, 20124:09 pm
    by Anne

    Reply

    My reactions to the trade rumors I read online in general (1) I dont think any NBA team will give up a player based on a player recent struggles…it should be long evaluation process since Day 1 of this player’s performance until now & how he will impact 4 the team in near future before they decide to keep this player or not. It does Take Time for any NBA team to develop their young players, so both media and fans should stay patient. (2) Anyone who is questioning Mr. Dumars GM ability should send their resumes to Mr. Gores since some people believe they can do better jobs than Joe. D.

    • Mar 13, 20124:19 pm
      by frankie d

      Reply

      based on dumars’ performance over the last 4-5 years, the bar is pretty low, if one wants to argue that they could do a better job than joe d.
      he’s been one of the worst nba execs over that time.
      the only argument is whether his prior performance provides evidence that he can turn his own recent performance around.
      a stuffed teddy bear could do a better job than joe d has recently done.

      • Mar 13, 20125:49 pm
        by Laser

        Reply

        Frankie is right. It’s almost inconceivable that a living being exists that could have done a worse job than Dumars has for the last 4-7 years.

        • Mar 14, 201212:01 am
          by apa8ren9

          Reply

          There are a few, Micheal Jordan, The wizards GM, it doesnt even matter what his name is.  Golden States sad state of affairs,  the New Jersey Nets, Sacramento, Oh yeah Cleveland, they did something like let their franchise player get away – something like that.  Let me see who else?  Phoenix, didnt they used to have Shaq?  Wasnt he supposed to lead them to a title? Toronto, New York, Charlotte.  Yeah all those teams have so many playoff round victories and championships over the last 4-7 years I cant keep up with them.

          • Mar 14, 20121:05 am
            by tarsier

            Don’t get on Cleveland too much. They did a poor job of building around James (not willing to give up Hickson for Amare being the most egregious example). But they’ve done well with the rebuild. A lot of luck to land Irving, but they had the right idea in taking other teams’ bad contracts to get young talent/picks attached.

        • Mar 14, 20122:37 pm
          by Max

          Reply

          Otis Smith.

  • Mar 13, 20124:30 pm
    by neutes

    Reply

    The problem with Daye is that we have Prince and Jerebko signed, and if Singler decides he wants to play we have him too. Maybe he’s talented, but his peak is role playerish and we have a glut of those. After this season his confidence seems so shaky and his shot is broke as hell. I don’t really care if we trade him. I’m pretty confident I’m not going to look back and regret saying this.

  • Mar 13, 20124:45 pm
    by John

    Reply

    Its odd that a 2nd round pick would be suggested from a generally reputable Pistons site. Thats an assinine statement to be sure. No chance it happens fortunately. Daye totally sucks, dont get me wrong, but no sense in giving him away when there is a ton of players on the roster that we would rather give away if possible.

    • Mar 13, 20124:55 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Sigh. I feel like I’ve repeated this a lot over the last few days, but having extra second round picks IS VALUABLE. If you think Daye isn’t going to materialize into anything and you can get a second round pick for him, you do it. If you think he’ll figure it out and help you someday, you keep him. It’s pretty simple.

      Sure, the Pistons have plenty of contracts they’d like to dump. But no one is going to just absorb a highly paid, under-performing player. Daye is a lowly paid under-performing player who was a 1st round pick a few years ago. Teams would much more willingly gamble on that type of player than the other types of players the Pistons would consider trading who represent a much steeper financial commitment. Daye is their most tradeable player because he’s easy to trade. Just don’t expect much of a return for him. A second round pick is a pretty fair exchange for him right now.

      • Mar 13, 20125:54 pm
        by Laser

        Reply

        Fair or not, it’s just a silly thing to even bring up.

        Joe Dumars is stubborn as a mule and twice as stupid. He’s got WAY too much pride to dump Austin Daye for a second rounder, given what an awkward pick he was in the first place. I know at the time I wanted him to pick Ty Lawson, but there’s a whole laundry list of players who looked better at the time and can actually crack rotations today.

        Zero percent chance Joe dumps him now for a second rounder. Come hell or high water, it will not happen. Even if that’s fair value, which I’m not sure it is…

        • Mar 13, 201210:26 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          Joe Dumars isn’t stupid. In fact, he’s one of the most respected, intelligent people ever associated with the NBA in any capacity. His track record as a GM is certainly open to scrutiny as it is full of high level successes and failures, but you on here calling him stupid all the time makes you look like the fool.

          Second, how do you figure he has way too much pride to dump a player who hasn’t panned out? He’s actually done that pretty frequently, occasionally to his own detriment. Trading Nazr Mohammed a year after giving him a multi year deal, dumping Delfino for picks, dumping Darko for a pick/cap space, dumping Rodney White for a pick, dumping Mateen Cleaves after one season … those were all significant investments he made, whether by drafting them in the first round or signing someone for decent money in Mohammed’s case, and he ate it on every one and cut ties. He has a history of doing that sort of thing, and if he believes that Daye is unsalvageable and can get a pick for him, he’ll do it again. There is nothing in his history that will suggest he won’t. Just an unconscionably weak argument not grounded in any fact.

          Also, if you’re not sure a second round pick is fair value, what is? Delfino brought back two second round picks when he was dealt, but he had also played much better than Daye. Daequan Cook, a better player than Daye, was traded to OKC for a second round pick. Chris Douglas-Roberts, a better player than Daye, was traded for a second round pick. Jon Brockman, a better player than Daye, was traded for a second round pick and a minimum player who was cut immediately. Xavier Henry (a lottery pick just last year) and Mareese Speights were traded for second round picks this year.

          I don’t see how anyone could reasonably expect more than a second round pick in a deal for Daye.

          • Mar 14, 201211:12 am
            by Laser

            Well, shit, Hayes. Let’s see if he does it. There’s a 100% chance Joe could land SOMEONE’S second rounder for Daye, so shit let’s just see if Joe does it.

            He won’t. Never happen. Not in a million years.

            For one thing, Joe’s obviously lost his touch. For another, Daye was such an absurd pick it’s not even funy. Joe picked him over a bunch of better prospects, he was a project small forward, he never ended up replacing our incumbent SF, he’s gotten spotty minutes and generally been mishandled (this team should have been playing and developing young talent for YEARS), and on top of all that, dude prematurely exercised his option. For a third thing, Daye is precisely the kind of player Joe should be snatching up; young players with upside who haven’t been in a good position to be successful.

            Joe made a bizarre pick and did nothing right in developing him. Kid should have been fed a steady dose of minutes from the start, but instead he’s going to be a fourth year VETERAN with very little experience and less confidence than the average rookie. That’s where we’re at.

            This is not some pick that made sense at the time and just never panned out for whatever reason. The stars are PERFECTLY aligned for Joe not to trade Daye for a second rounder.

          • Mar 14, 201211:20 am
            by Patrick Hayes

            I don’t know if he’ll do it. I honestly don’t know what their opinion is on Daye at this point. I’m just saying that for you to argue there isn’t a precedent for him giving up on guys he’s picked/signed who didn’t pan out, that argument is wrong. He has done that frequently. You’re wrong on that, end of story.

            You’re also wrong when you said you’re not sure a second rounder is fair value, which according to other players who have been moved for second rounders, it is.

            But hey, good job addressing none of the points raised and ranting some more. Proud of ya.

          • Mar 14, 20121:14 pm
            by frankie d

            a second round/late first is about the going rate for a guy like daye now.
            you can add a guy i wanted detroit to draft, instead of daye, to the list: james johnson.
            chicago traded him for a first rounder last year, after johnson had even less impact than daye had had during his first year and a half.
            my problem with those kinds of trades is that they are exactly as hollinger described: body snatching, stealing talented young players because their current teams haven’t figured out how to deal with them.
            the teams getting those guys get great deals, usually, and the teams dealing those guys usually get very little in return other than getting rid of a headache.  and they may need a little bit of cap space also, and they sacrifice the player for that cap space.
            the better way to go is to be patient and only make a trade that will benefit your team. 
            portland traded martell webster, a guy who was a bit of a bust and was up and down, in and out of the rotation, injured, for a mid first.  but they kept him around for 5 years,  righted his career and ultimately made a decent deal, even though it was always clear that he never fit into mcmillan’s plans.
            why should detroit make a “bodysnatching”  kind of trade at this point?  makes no sense from an organizational point of view.
            unless there is some imperative, keep him and try to work things out.
            instead of trading potentially good young players for less than their market value, dumars should be looking at trading maxiell.  he will probably never have more value than he has now.  a team looking to make a playoff run could absolutely use a guy who can provide the impact he can have on a game.
            he can probably fetch a first rounder from some team that is going to make a run.  
            that is the kind of trade that joe should be making: trading older assets that he can turn into younger players who will fit his new contending team.
            btw, i think laser describes daye’s drafting well.  it was absurd, unless you were going to commit to developing daye long term.  everyone knew he was a project who would take years to develop, if he developed.  the idea was that if you drafted him, a team was going to invest those years in order to get a quality player in the end.  there were known and serious problems with his body and his maturity.  read the draft reports on the guy.
            i hated the daye choice, especially because they drafted him as a “PF” something i knew was ridiculous, having seen lots of gonzaga BB when he played.  i liked johnson, and failing drafting him, i was open to any of the nice point guards who were taken almost immediately after daye and johnson went: lawson, collison, maynor, holliday.
            but joe drafted him, and, imho, has the duty to try to make a player out of him, as best he can.  he knew there were going to be ups and downs when he drafted him.  to act as though it is surprising that the process is bumpy is truly absurd. 
            trading him for a high second would certainly be “typical” but it is also an admission of failure.

          • Mar 14, 20122:49 pm
            by Max

            @FrankieD……How many players does a team need to body snatch before they have one reliable player for their effots?  You’re complaining about a dynamic where the player who pans out for his new team is the exception rather than the rule.  Many players fail with their first team and then get another shot or two.  Most of these players fail with their new teams and are eventually gone from the league.  In the minority, some players who have utterly failed with one team succeed with another and that’s why teams take chances and turn over their talent each year but all of this doesn’t make it stupid for teams to give up on their failed players because most will fail in their new location too.   Most players don’t make it and there’s no shame because it’s a difficult league and difficult to project how players will fit in.

          • Mar 14, 20123:32 pm
            by frankie d

            who knows how many players you have to go through to get that one jewel.  
            but you keep pursuing talent.
            i’d keep the last two spots on my roster pretty much open as a revolving audition seat.
            bring in young guys, try em out and either keep em or ditch them according to fit.
            joe d is doing the rebuilding thing a@@ backwards.  
            he’s signing 29 year old rookies out of the d-league.
            he’s giving valuable rotation PT to 30+ year olds who have no future with the team.
            he’s siging 31 year old vets to 4 year contracts and giving them starting nods and heavy PT at the expense of his young guys.
            he’s letting his young, recent first round choices collect splinters on the bench and when their value is at its lowest, he trades them.
            this is not how rebuilding teams rebuild.  in fact, it is pretty much the total opposite of what rebuilding teams do.
            rebuilding teams usually try to find young d-league players in the hope that they might find a young guy who will contribute to the future of the team.
            they usually don’t give prominent roles and PT to over-30 journeymen and 15 year vets on the verge of retirement.
            they usually don’t lock in 31 year old players at positions where they have young players trying to get PT.
            they usually “snatch” as much young talent from other teams, rather than being the team that dumps such talent.
            joe dumars is in the bizarro world of rebuilding…where everything is opposite of what it normally is.
            now, if this unorthodox approach was successful, i’d say great, do it your own way.
            but the fact is joe has presided over a uniquely bad disintegration of a title team.  his approach has resulted in a once excellent team devolving into one of the league’s worst, in almost the blink of an eye, due, solely to his own decisions and moves.
            the team is one of the league’s worst.  has been one of the league’s worst for almost 3 years now, and there is not much hope in the near future – two years or so – other than hoping for lucky lottery balls.
            once upon a time joe was a great league exec.
            i have no idea what happened, but it is absolutely clear that he doesn’t have a clue now.

      • Mar 13, 20125:57 pm
        by Coach_Ackley

        Reply

        Not to mention that if we did get another second round that would be 3 and then we would have the ammo to mover up in the draft or move in to the late first round as some teams may look to trade out of their spot……

  • Mar 13, 20126:20 pm
    by Haan

    Reply

    Hollinger’s right that Daye should be of interest to other teams, on the assumption of a low trade bid.  Similar reasoning applies to Gordon whose future may be undervalued right now, but he’s got the crummy contract.  Were he to be amnestied I’d expect a bunch of teams to be interested.  Even the droopy Prince could draw some interest. Villanueva’s the guy I’d pass on as a rival GM, unless I could bring him in for the minimum after amnesty.

    Wonder if Maxiell could bring in more than a 2nd rounder (& an expiring, matching, salary) as good as he’s going?  And even though I’m being forced into conversion on Stuckey, I’d be real curious what other teams might offer if I were Dumars.

    btw, heard a Howard for Carmelo and Chandler trade discussed, which I thought was an interesting possibility (once matches and the longterm were arranged).  As the Knicks, I’d go for that and it could be the best Orlando can manage.  

    I’d need to bowled over by offers for Monroe, Knight, or Jerebko, but no sacred cows this time.

  • Mar 13, 20128:29 pm
    by Tiko

    Reply

    OT — is there gonna be a 3 on 3: Trading Jason Maxiell?

    Also, when are you guys gonna update the ‘Salaries’ section?

    • Mar 13, 201210:10 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Yeah, we’ll finish up the 3 on 3s, including Maxiell, this week hopefully. Dan will have to answer the salaries question, that’s his baby.

  • Mar 13, 201210:47 pm
    by rick77

    Reply

    So Patrick what do you think we can fetch after watching Golden State give up on Monta Ellis and Epke Udoh along with Kwame Brown and trading for Bogut and Jackson? Gotta believe we could do someting even if it is not on that level.

    • Mar 13, 201211:04 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Tough to figure out what GS was trying to do in that trade. They picked up the two worst contracts in the deal and both guys are not playing right now, plus they also gave up a young prospect in Udoh.

      I’m honestly not sure what the Pistons can do. Wouldn’t surprise me to see Bynum and Daye dealt in small deals. They had some comments today and both sounded like they’d be open to a trade/are tired of sitting. Dumars usually accommodates guys who want to go.

      Maxiell has played himself into an interesting name on the trade market too. He’s a good backup big man for just about any team and he’s only signed one more season after this. I could see teams being interested in him.

      I’m sure they’d love to trade one of the Gordon/Villanueva duo. Some teams could use Gordon’s bench scoring (the Lakers, for one), just not sure they’d take on that contract. Villanueva is harder to deal I think simply because he hasn’t played hardly at all this season. If a team wanted scoring help for a playoff push, they’d probably consider a healthy Villanueva, but if there’s no guarantee he’ll hold up physically, I can’t see a team taking the risk.

      I think the Pistons are most motivated to trade those two, but I also think it’s pretty unlikely they’ll find a partner. Bynum, Daye and Maxiell seem like the best bets to potentially get moved to me. I think they’re satisfied keeping Monroe/Stuckey/Knight/Prince/Jerebko intact and Wallace isn’t going anywhere either. Russell or Wilkins could probably be had, but not sure why any team would have interest in those guys as they’re end of the bench players at best.

      • Mar 13, 201211:42 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        It certainly did seem a steep price for Bogut. Udoh looks really good imho and doesn’t have as bad an injury history–not to mention that he is many years younger than Bogut. And Ellis is much better than Jackson.

        • Mar 14, 20129:17 am
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          Yeah, I’m not a huge Monta fan, but he gets buckets and they can probably flip him somewhere else if they want pretty easily. Jackson would’ve been much more difficult to move for anything of value.

      • Mar 14, 20125:18 am
        by gmehl1977

        Reply

        @Patrick
        I think the one incentive albeit an expensive one is by getting Bogut who might not play again this year and dealing away Ellis and Udoh they will more than likely end up with at least the 7th worst record in the league. If this happens then they don’t have to give up there 1st rounder which think was top 7 protected by memory. Bogut when healthy is going to be a great pick up for the Warriors whereas the Bucks get a SG that averages 20-22ppg with a style that is not going to win many games and a role playing PF in Udoh. I think people will look back on that trade and see that the Warriors got the better of the deal. I would love to see Bogut in a pistons uniform and he would be a great fit next to Monroe. People say Bogut is injury prone which he has been but the reality is that he had a back injury and then most recently a fractured ankle. Then there was the dunk gone wrong where he busted his elbow due to Stoudamire shoving him in the back which was unfortunate (unlucky). I saw and spoke to Bogut at the start of this year and he looked fine to me and once his ankle heals the Warriors will have that defensive anchor that they haven’t had since…well they haven’t!

        • Mar 14, 201210:01 am
          by tarsier

          Reply

          It might mean they don’t give up their pick this year. But they’ll still give up the pick eventually.

          • Mar 14, 201210:08 am
            by gmehl1977

            Yeah but I it would hurt more by giving them this years pick rather than next years

        • Mar 14, 20122:50 pm
          by Max

          Reply

          Since Nate Thurmond.  HAHA.

        • Mar 14, 20123:10 pm
          by frankie d

          Reply

          bogut hasn’t been right since he busted his elbow. just isn’t the same player.  too bad, cause a pre-injury bogut was a real force.  he may never be the same player.

  • Mar 14, 20121:58 am
    by Domnick

    Reply

    we need to act now… i’d love some rumors about Pistons Trade… please lets do some shake!!!

  • Mar 14, 20122:10 am
    by frankie d

    Reply

    maybe milwaukee is open to dealing larry sanders.
    he basically duplicates udoh’s skills.
    if detroit could pry him away from milwaukee for a reaonable price, he’d be an interesting piece to pick up.
    nice shotblocker, decent rebounder, good defender.  maybe he’s fallen out of favor with milwaukee.
    daye for sanders?

    • Mar 14, 20129:16 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Nah. No way Milwaukee wants to trade Sanders yet. Sanders/Udoh/Leuer give them a young, cheap frontcourt rotation, especially since they’ve reportedly been trying to find teams to take on Drew Gooden’s contract and have supposedly been shopping Ilyasova too, who they don’t think they’ll be able to sign.

      • Mar 14, 201210:03 am
        by tarsier

        Reply

        I’m all for the Pistons taking on more bad contracts if assets are attached as sweeteners. The issue is that the Pistons don’t have much to send back unless someone considers Prince’s deal a good one.

      • Mar 14, 201212:51 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        sure, sanders is nice to have as a rotation guy, but don’t you think he duplicates lots of what udoh brings?
        frankly, i’m merely hoping, but i wonder if they’d possibly be interested.
        the bigger issue for me, regarding the trade, is how does ellis fit in? (not a big fan, either.)
        imho, the fit is worse than in GS.  curry has more true point instincts than jennings and he’s a bit bigger.  
        now, ellis is supposed to play with a smaller guard who dominates the ball and likes to jack up 3′s?
        very curious….

        • Mar 14, 20121:01 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          Oh, there’s some duplication. But I don’t think teams would consider having too many athletic bigs who block shots, defend and rebound an issue. Neither guy is a future all-star or anything, but with Ellis/Jennings no doubt chucking away, having active bigs who can rebound will be important. I would love to have Sanders if they were silly enough to trade him, but I don’t think they will be.

  • Mar 14, 20124:28 am
    by Roit

    Reply

    I think team should trade for Austin Daye. Will Bynum. CV31. BG8

  • Mar 14, 20125:16 am
    by Anne

    Reply

    (1) I still believe Joe D. will take everything in consideration before he trade any player to other teams. (2) Even though Austin hasn’t played too much in this season, he still had a 28 points performance against Heat in late January. Plus his 2nd season performance was not bad at all, so he is still a player with lots of upside when time allowed. Can you guys image how good he can be if he can play at least 15 to 20 mins per game in the whole season? (3) I believe a lot of NBA players have been though many struggles before they become who they are now, so don’t take any player’s short term struggles into long term misunderstanding please. (4) I know it’s all freedom of speech here, but it will be great if people can think things in Bigger Picture before they make comment here. For example, you guys should go back to search some Detroit Pistons Team History online to know what the Team Characters are and what elements make this team had pretty long playoff rounds with 3 championship rings in past before making all kinds of crazy comments/ideas here !!!

  • Mar 14, 20128:05 am
    by shawn brown

    Reply

    hickson for daye ..if you cant get a pick for him id do that in a second

  • Mar 14, 20129:44 am
    by Steve K

    Reply

    Frankie D is right. Trading Daye or Bynum at this point is to sell low. That’s bad business. If the Pistons hold onto Daye – even if they don’t play him – he becomes more valuable as an expiring deal next season. Makes little sense to do it now… unless, of course, somebody offers an absurd package in return (like a 1st rounder), but we know that’s not gonna happen.

    Hold on to Daye. Hold on to Bynum. If anybody should be on the block, it should be Maxiell or Stuckey, who have significant value. Now, Stuckey-backers, don’t throw a fit. I think he’s playing well, and that’s exactly why he should be considered for a trade. He’d demand quite a bit in return.

    • Mar 14, 201210:07 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      How would dealing Bynum be selling low? He is what he is and everyone knows what he is. He’s just buried this year.

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