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	<title>Comments on: 3-on-3: Trading Jonas Jerebko</title>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/comment-page-1/#comment-57315</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2012 00:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/#comment-57315</guid>
		<description>Ersan seems to be set on leaving the league after this season.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ersan seems to be set on leaving the league after this season.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/comment-page-1/#comment-57314</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2012 00:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/#comment-57314</guid>
		<description>@Patrick....do you compare Prince to the average player or the average small forward because a lot of teams don&#039;t have one as good as Prince.   Also, owners and GMs might be thinking a lot differently than you.  Mark Cuban for instance said that the lockout year renders all stats produced this year to be irrelevant in terms of predicting future years,  He said the schedule hurts veterans and skews their numbers and he said the opposite regarding young players.   Prince shot extremely well the previous two seasons so the drop this year could be due to the schedule.  I look for a big bounce back in field goal pct for Prince next season.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Patrick&#8230;.do you compare Prince to the average player or the average small forward because a lot of teams don&#8217;t have one as good as Prince.   Also, owners and GMs might be thinking a lot differently than you.  Mark Cuban for instance said that the lockout year renders all stats produced this year to be irrelevant in terms of predicting future years,  He said the schedule hurts veterans and skews their numbers and he said the opposite regarding young players.   Prince shot extremely well the previous two seasons so the drop this year could be due to the schedule.  I look for a big bounce back in field goal pct for Prince next season.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/comment-page-1/#comment-57311</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2012 00:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/#comment-57311</guid>
		<description>If only the Pistons had Robin Lopez, Cole Aldrich or Byron Mullens.  What makes any of them better than JJ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If only the Pistons had Robin Lopez, Cole Aldrich or Byron Mullens.  What makes any of them better than JJ?</p>
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		<title>By: Laser</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/comment-page-1/#comment-57251</link>
		<dc:creator>Laser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 20:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/#comment-57251</guid>
		<description>I certainly never made that kind of statement about Rip. Rip&#039;s game is predicated on running around screens and being &quot;the best condtioned athlete in the league.&quot; Tayshaun is the fathest thing in the world from this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I certainly never made that kind of statement about Rip. Rip&#8217;s game is predicated on running around screens and being &#8220;the best condtioned athlete in the league.&#8221; Tayshaun is the fathest thing in the world from this.</p>
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		<title>By: tarsier</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/comment-page-1/#comment-57216</link>
		<dc:creator>tarsier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 17:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/#comment-57216</guid>
		<description>Extending Prince was not, in theory,a mistake. It was a mistake because of the numbers involved. He should have been given at most three years so he could fall off the books with CV and BG. And Dumars really should have pushed for one or two years so that Prince would be desirable asset and be highly tradeable.

The biggest mistake was not taking the Butler swap. After cashing in with a late first rounder in what was considered a very deep draft, Dumars still could have tried to resign either Prince or Butler to try to swap him out later to a contender.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Extending Prince was not, in theory,a mistake. It was a mistake because of the numbers involved. He should have been given at most three years so he could fall off the books with CV and BG. And Dumars really should have pushed for one or two years so that Prince would be desirable asset and be highly tradeable.</p>
<p>The biggest mistake was not taking the Butler swap. After cashing in with a late first rounder in what was considered a very deep draft, Dumars still could have tried to resign either Prince or Butler to try to swap him out later to a contender.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/comment-page-1/#comment-57202</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 17:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/#comment-57202</guid>
		<description>Maybe this isnt the forum for it, but I would love to see the pistons make a move for Ersan Ilyasova or Asik (sure, hes probably not available). </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe this isnt the forum for it, but I would love to see the pistons make a move for Ersan Ilyasova or Asik (sure, hes probably not available). </p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Hayes</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/comment-page-1/#comment-57194</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Hayes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/#comment-57194</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;he’s an above-average player on a deal that doesn’t wildly exceed the MLE.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Not according to his numbers this year, he&#039;s not. His contract might not be an albatross, but his age and decline in shooting percentage mixed with being signed long-term make me skeptical there&#039;s a team that would give a first round pick for him out there.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&quot;his game isn’t REMOTELY predicated on the athleticism players tend to lose as they head towardss their mid-thirties.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You predicted something similar about Hamilton, I believe. That&#039;s working out quite well for Chicago.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;he’s an above-average player on a deal that doesn’t wildly exceed the MLE.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not according to his numbers this year, he&#8217;s not. His contract might not be an albatross, but his age and decline in shooting percentage mixed with being signed long-term make me skeptical there&#8217;s a team that would give a first round pick for him out there.</p>
<p>&#8220;his game isn’t REMOTELY predicated on the athleticism players tend to lose as they head towardss their mid-thirties.&#8221;</p>
<p>You predicted something similar about Hamilton, I believe. That&#8217;s working out quite well for Chicago.</p>
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		<title>By: Laser</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/comment-page-1/#comment-57192</link>
		<dc:creator>Laser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/#comment-57192</guid>
		<description>Also, for the record, Prince is not an albatross. I think he can and should be traded. His contract isn&#039;t perfect, but it makes some sense AS LONG AS JOE DIDN&#039;T SIGN HIM SO HE COULD RETIRE HERE, which would be an unforgivable and &lt;strong&gt;purely &lt;/strong&gt;posterious move on his part. Whether you&#039;re sick of looking at his face, or you think he&#039;s worn out his welcome, he&#039;s an above-average player on a deal that doesn&#039;t wildly exceed the MLE. He&#039;s smart and versatile and durable, and his game isn&#039;t REMOTELY predicated on the athleticism players tend to lose as they head towardss their mid-thirties. He&#039;s an asset who would be significant help any contender.

Letting him walk would have been a mistake. Extending him so he can retire here would be a bigger mistake. Joe left himself with nothing but bad options, but the best thing he could do is turn Tayshaun into another first rounder. Probably a late one. So be it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, for the record, Prince is not an albatross. I think he can and should be traded. His contract isn&#8217;t perfect, but it makes some sense AS LONG AS JOE DIDN&#8217;T SIGN HIM SO HE COULD RETIRE HERE, which would be an unforgivable and <strong>purely </strong>posterious move on his part. Whether you&#8217;re sick of looking at his face, or you think he&#8217;s worn out his welcome, he&#8217;s an above-average player on a deal that doesn&#8217;t wildly exceed the MLE. He&#8217;s smart and versatile and durable, and his game isn&#8217;t REMOTELY predicated on the athleticism players tend to lose as they head towardss their mid-thirties. He&#8217;s an asset who would be significant help any contender.</p>
<p>Letting him walk would have been a mistake. Extending him so he can retire here would be a bigger mistake. Joe left himself with nothing but bad options, but the best thing he could do is turn Tayshaun into another first rounder. Probably a late one. So be it.</p>
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		<title>By: Laser</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/comment-page-1/#comment-57191</link>
		<dc:creator>Laser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/#comment-57191</guid>
		<description>This is one of a VERY few discussions regarding player tradability worth having. He&#039;s nowhere NEAR good enough to build around, but on a team this scattered and lackluster, he looks downright indispensible.

My take on JJ is as simple as this: Jonas a part of the &quot;young core&quot; that Joe overvalues to the point of absurdity. The cupboard is so bare, and there&#039;s so little flexibility for this year AND THE NEXT TWO, that Greg Monroe looks like Kareem, Brandon Knight looks like Isiah, Stuckey looks like Jordan and JJ looks like... uh, I dunno, Josh Smith?

The bottom line is that these guys aren&#039;t a &quot;good young core,&quot; they&#039;re good young pieces. And there&#039;s a big difference between the two. These guys are not good enough to build around; they&#039;re the kinds of players you surround LEGITIMATE core players with. Joe overvalues these guys as individuals and as a unit. He&#039;ll never think he&#039;s getting enough for them. This alone makes any trades involving these prohibitively unlikely.

Add to that the fact that the team itself is so poorly constructed that nobody is showcased at all. This team has been less than the sum of its parts since 2009. The only player on this roster who legitimately makes his teammates better is Monroe, and he&#039;s the most untouchable. And (1) he doesn&#039;t do it consistently enough to be a true full-time hub for the offense, and (2) guys he assists have to work pretty hard by being active and making basket cuts to take full advantage of it; he&#039;s not one of these guys who draws so much attention that he just has to hit an open man for a clean look.

&lt;strong&gt;AND &lt;/strong&gt;on top of all that, there is absolutely no pressure whatsoever on Joe (internally or externally) to do his job. He gets &lt;em&gt;applauded &lt;/em&gt;for sitting on his hands, because he resisted the chance to make a move. Dude can&#039;t lose. He&#039;s got an inexplicable leash, and he&#039;s got automatic incremental help coming intermittently in the future. Every year, he gets a promising young piece in the lottery (by mere virtue of being awful and suffering another excruciating season of misery and futility); this offseason he&#039;s got a few small expiring contracts that are inherently movable simply because they&#039;re expiring; next offseason Rip will have fallen off the books, and he&#039;ll have two huge dead weight expiring nightmare contracts to try to pawn off on unsuspecting suckers, assuming he hasn&#039;t already amnestied one of them.

The bottom line is that Joe seems completely unwilling to do anything to significantly shape the future of this team in any way. It&#039;s one thing to try rebuilding on the fly, which shouldn&#039;t be hard as long as you have flexibility (as the Pistons had in 2008); you just have to make good decisions. Joe tried that, but he only failed because he made terrible decisions. Look at Denver; they did it the right way by maximizing their assets and options. But once you&#039;re terrible and have no flexibility, you need to shake things up in order to break the cycle of mediocrity. When you&#039;re bad and orchestrate your roster to win as many games as you can, however few they may be, it&#039;s just a long, slow slog out of the gutter. And anybody could sit in his chair and wait for things to get better, because they will as a matter of course.

I wouldn&#039;t expect any activity at the trade deadline, simply because Joe doesn&#039;t have the vision, guts, or options it would take to turn this team around by action. In all likelihood the team gets turned around by&lt;em&gt; inaction&lt;/em&gt;, if at all. The front office will tell us that they&#039;re waiting for the summer to make moves, but they still probably don&#039;t make any waves then. It&#039;s probably a full season before we see any real change. If Joe were smart, he&#039;d do something to make us significantly better or worse (personally, I&#039;d try to trade Max and Tay for junk and picks), but history dictates he won&#039;t. He&#039;s too stubborn and proud and stupid, so as long as he&#039;s in charge we&#039;re stuck in limbo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is one of a VERY few discussions regarding player tradability worth having. He&#8217;s nowhere NEAR good enough to build around, but on a team this scattered and lackluster, he looks downright indispensible.</p>
<p>My take on JJ is as simple as this: Jonas a part of the &#8220;young core&#8221; that Joe overvalues to the point of absurdity. The cupboard is so bare, and there&#8217;s so little flexibility for this year AND THE NEXT TWO, that Greg Monroe looks like Kareem, Brandon Knight looks like Isiah, Stuckey looks like Jordan and JJ looks like&#8230; uh, I dunno, Josh Smith?</p>
<p>The bottom line is that these guys aren&#8217;t a &#8220;good young core,&#8221; they&#8217;re good young pieces. And there&#8217;s a big difference between the two. These guys are not good enough to build around; they&#8217;re the kinds of players you surround LEGITIMATE core players with. Joe overvalues these guys as individuals and as a unit. He&#8217;ll never think he&#8217;s getting enough for them. This alone makes any trades involving these prohibitively unlikely.</p>
<p>Add to that the fact that the team itself is so poorly constructed that nobody is showcased at all. This team has been less than the sum of its parts since 2009. The only player on this roster who legitimately makes his teammates better is Monroe, and he&#8217;s the most untouchable. And (1) he doesn&#8217;t do it consistently enough to be a true full-time hub for the offense, and (2) guys he assists have to work pretty hard by being active and making basket cuts to take full advantage of it; he&#8217;s not one of these guys who draws so much attention that he just has to hit an open man for a clean look.</p>
<p><strong>AND </strong>on top of all that, there is absolutely no pressure whatsoever on Joe (internally or externally) to do his job. He gets <em>applauded </em>for sitting on his hands, because he resisted the chance to make a move. Dude can&#8217;t lose. He&#8217;s got an inexplicable leash, and he&#8217;s got automatic incremental help coming intermittently in the future. Every year, he gets a promising young piece in the lottery (by mere virtue of being awful and suffering another excruciating season of misery and futility); this offseason he&#8217;s got a few small expiring contracts that are inherently movable simply because they&#8217;re expiring; next offseason Rip will have fallen off the books, and he&#8217;ll have two huge dead weight expiring nightmare contracts to try to pawn off on unsuspecting suckers, assuming he hasn&#8217;t already amnestied one of them.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that Joe seems completely unwilling to do anything to significantly shape the future of this team in any way. It&#8217;s one thing to try rebuilding on the fly, which shouldn&#8217;t be hard as long as you have flexibility (as the Pistons had in 2008); you just have to make good decisions. Joe tried that, but he only failed because he made terrible decisions. Look at Denver; they did it the right way by maximizing their assets and options. But once you&#8217;re terrible and have no flexibility, you need to shake things up in order to break the cycle of mediocrity. When you&#8217;re bad and orchestrate your roster to win as many games as you can, however few they may be, it&#8217;s just a long, slow slog out of the gutter. And anybody could sit in his chair and wait for things to get better, because they will as a matter of course.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t expect any activity at the trade deadline, simply because Joe doesn&#8217;t have the vision, guts, or options it would take to turn this team around by action. In all likelihood the team gets turned around by<em> inaction</em>, if at all. The front office will tell us that they&#8217;re waiting for the summer to make moves, but they still probably don&#8217;t make any waves then. It&#8217;s probably a full season before we see any real change. If Joe were smart, he&#8217;d do something to make us significantly better or worse (personally, I&#8217;d try to trade Max and Tay for junk and picks), but history dictates he won&#8217;t. He&#8217;s too stubborn and proud and stupid, so as long as he&#8217;s in charge we&#8217;re stuck in limbo.</p>
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		<title>By: tarsier</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/comment-page-1/#comment-57184</link>
		<dc:creator>tarsier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 14:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/03/3-on-3-trading-jonas-jerebko/#comment-57184</guid>
		<description>Oh, yeah, the Gordon I was referring to was Eric, if cap space were cleared and he were acquired. I have no desire to consider Ben Gordon part of the future.

JJ does not look as athletic as he once did, but not much less either. It&#039;s a real disappointment that he hasn&#039;t improved since his rookie season. Although I did always consider him a Taj Gibson type of player.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, yeah, the Gordon I was referring to was Eric, if cap space were cleared and he were acquired. I have no desire to consider Ben Gordon part of the future.</p>
<p>JJ does not look as athletic as he once did, but not much less either. It&#8217;s a real disappointment that he hasn&#8217;t improved since his rookie season. Although I did always consider him a Taj Gibson type of player.</p>
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