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Rodney Stuckey continues stellar play in win over Celtics

I’m a dope, a fool, a sucker. Pick your word, and that’s me.

After the Pistons’ 96-81 win over the Celtics tonight, Detroit’s seventh win in its last nine games, not only am I starting to believe Rodney Stuckey has turned a corner, I actually checked the Eastern Conference standings to see how far the Pistons are from the playoffs. That gave me a much-needed reality check. With an 11-22 record, they’re 5.5 games and three teams out – too far back as the All-Star break nears to be considered a threat for the postseason.

But Stuckey? I’m nearly ready to jump on the bandwagon. As Patrick noted yesterday, Stuckey has had strong stretches before, but this run seems a little longer and a little better. For him to truly prove himself, he must play well the rest of the season. At least now, there are signs he will.

Stuckey is playing hard on both sides of the ball, which has been an issue for him. He’s getting to the free-throw line on offense, and he’s sticking with his man on defense.

At shooting guard, Stuckey no longer has a physical advantage over his opponents like he did at point guard. For him to compete, he must keep playing with energy. That’s far from a given to occur, but these flashes are inspiring.

Add his smart passing, improved outside shooting and savvy jumping of the passing lanes, and Stuckey looks like a complete player. For now, passing the eye test is fine and dandy.

The real test is still over the long haul, and it will be until he passes that one, too.

Most Valuable Player

Rodney Stuckey, who set the tone for the Pistons’ aggressive offense (12-of-15 on free throws) and defense (four steals while guarding Ray Allen and Paul Pierce).

Defining Moment

Rajon Rondo throwing the ball at a referee and getting ejected in the third quarter. It didn’t define the game, which the Pistons led comfortably at the time, but it will definitely define Rondo’s bank account balance.

X-Factor

Will Bynum. Bynum, who’s not part of Lawrence Frank’s regular rotation, played strong on-ball defense – an unusual event for him – and score seven points in his 13 minutes off the bench.

Leaving the benchwarmers on the bench

The Pistons led by at least 11 during the game’s final 16 minutes and as many as 20 in the fourth quarter. But Walker Russell and Vernon Macklin didn’t enter the game until 43 seconds remained. And Austin Daye didn’t play at all.

I was a little disappointed Lawrence Frank didn’t play the benchwarmers more, especially Macklin, who continued to play well in his extremely limited minutes. Tonight, he grabbed an offensive rebound and made a hook shot with three seconds left.

It’s also telling that Daye didn’t play, his third straight DNP-CD.

57 Comments

  • Feb 19, 20128:49 pm
    by Bob

    Reply

    Comprehensive review..

    • Feb 19, 201210:57 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Haha. That’s what the ‘Check back for updates’ is for. At one time, when this recap only had a couple of bullet points, your comment was so witty and ahead of the curb. But by the time morning hits and everyone else is chiming in in the comments, no one will know what you were talking about. Your moment is lost. I hope you enjoyed it.

  • Feb 19, 20129:38 pm
    by gmehl

    Reply

    I know its only the Celtics (who cares about them) but i think they are in exactly the same position the Pistons were around 2007-2008 where it is time to blow the team up. Ainge doesn’t know whether to or not but i guarantee if he doesn’t do it soon then all those  assets he has in (Pierce, Garnett, Allen) will soon be wasted. If i was him i would be trading those guys asap for draft picks or expirings because if he doesn’t then he will be living every Piston fans worst nightmare by sucking a$$ for the next 3 years with the upside of then walking the mediocrity treadmill. Having said that what goes up must come down but i guess as a GM you can limit how hard/far you fall if you are wise about it.

  • Feb 19, 20129:52 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    sorry, but the comparison with detroit doesnt hold water.  these celtics are much further along then the pistons were back then.  
    detroit had just been to the conference finals, its 6th straight.  boston lost 4-1 in the semifinals.  big difference.
    plus, garnett has suffered a debilitating knee injury.  all you have to do is look at him to see that his knee has never fully healed since he hurt it a couple of years ago.
    detroit’s core was healthy.  in fact, its top 9 players had enjoyed a remarkable run of good health.
    garnett is the heart and soul of boston’s team.  even though he is still a pretty good player, his knee makes him a hugely diminished quantity.
    additionally, garnett has been in the league for 15 years.  allen has been in the league for 14 years.  pierce, 12 years.
    only sheed had those kind of miles on him.
    the two situations are just totally different.  there was no need to blow up detroit’s team.  none.  no matter how often fans may try to justify it, it cannot be justified.  it was a braindead decision that the team is still struggling to overcome.
    if boston blows things up, they have good justification for doing so.  when your main star, is playing on one leg, because of a chronically bad knee, after 15 years in the league, you have to be realistic about your direction.  get what you can while the getting is good.
    nothing that existed in detroit back then is anywhere close to that situation.
    nothing.

    • Feb 19, 201210:00 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      LOL … yeah, because Hamilton/Prince/Rasheed Wallace were all really super good still post-2008-09 season. Billups was the only member of their core who was still playing at his highest level, it turns out, but to say that that Pistons team didn’t have serious signs of age catching up with them is crazy.

      • Feb 20, 201212:58 am
        by frankie d

        Reply

        this is what gmehl posted:
        “i think they are in exactly the same position the Pistons were around 2007-2008 where it is time to blow the team up. ”
        that is what i was disputing.   i think any reasonable analysis has to conclude that the 2 situations were not EXACTLY alike, not by a long stretch.
        in fact, they were not even similar in the least.
        the facts are the facts.  the celts have a team with a core of 3 superstars.  
        one superstar suffered a serious knee injury that has left him playing on one leg.  he also has 15 years in the league. 
        another core superstar is a 14 year vet.  
        the baby of the trio is a 12 year vet.
        (also, when the trade for garnett was made, it was commonly understood that the team would essentially have a 3-4 year window within which to win a title(s), and that has proven to be correct.
        the old man of the pistons was 13 year vet sheed.
        next in line was 11 year vet chauncey.
        then rip with 9 years.
        again, facts are stubborn things, but the two circumstances are simply not analogous.  and they obviously are not “exactly” the same.
        now, a good discussion can be had about whether the team should have started rebuilding or whether they had serious signs of aging, but that is another question.  that is not the question i was answering. 
        now, imho, detroit should have followed the san antonio model.   keep the core and fill in.
        however, if you were going to blow the core up, do it intelligently.  don’t make a historically bad trade that history has proven to be a historically bad trade.  
        and all of the coulda, shoulda, woulda’s in the world can’t make up for the reality that doing what joe d did was incredibly stupid.
        even if one can make a cogent argument that the team needed to do something of that sort at that time. 
        and as noted, this scenario was openly anticipated the moment garnett was brought into boston.  sure, they may have held onto the core one year too long, but circumstances did not cooperate.  garnett’s knee got banged up and that threw a monkey wrench into everything.
        but my point is simply that the pistons’ situation is no way analogous to the celts.
        apples and oranges.

        • Feb 20, 20123:18 am
          by gmehl1977

          Reply

          You must not of had your coffee this morning frankie because it sounds like you are in an argumentative mood. The major point i am trying to make is that Boston needs to blow up there team asap and that the situation is similar to what we faced in 2007-2008. Maybe i shouldn’t of said ‘exactly‘ and rather of said ‘similar‘ because exactly would mean everything was the same which it is not. Now when i say similar i mean that in my opinion i feel that 2007-2008 was when i think Joe should of blown the team up. I feel that after the whole flip the switch period we had the writing was on the wall to shake things up. Whether you agree/disagree with me i don’t really care but what i have mentioned above is my opinion and that is how i feel. I have been commenting at pistonpowered for years and i am sure by now you would know that i don’t like to write pages of notes to back up my thoughts like a lot of people here do. I don’t like to get into some of the silly disputes like some of the people that comment on here but hey each to there own. You are always more than welcome to quote what i say and disagree with me if you must cause i would much rather people reading what i have to say than not at all.

          • Feb 20, 201212:33 pm
            by frankie d

            the two situations – detroit and boston – were not even remotely similar.
            from the way the teams were constructed – boston in a flash with a blockbuster trade; detroit via a long process of accumulating talent – to the state they were in at the times noted – detroit after 2007 and boston now – they are in circumstances that are simply unique to each team.  sometimes there is no case on point and this is one of those instances where there is simply no relevant or useful similarities between the two circumstances.
            this boston team obviously needs to be blown up.  they are old.   their best player has been rendered a shell of himself because of a knee injury that has led to other problems over the last 3 seasons.  at the end of last season, the average age of their top 9 players – in terms of PT – was 29.8.  (or 29.2 if you sub jermaine o’neal for shaq, as shaq was clearly done after last year.) 
            detroit had none of those issues after the ’08 season.  their average age was 26.6).  their core players were all remarkably healthy with no major injuries in their recent past.  they had a young core of players – stuckey, afflalo, amir, maxiell – ready to move into prominent roles given proper nurturing and developing.  they had just been to the conference finals for the last 6 years.
            detroit had been built for the long haul.  a beautiful job by joe.
            boston had been cobbled together with one express purpose: win a title – or two – and then blow it up because ainge was bringing in older players who obviously had a very short shelf life.
            while the team needed tweaking, for sure, blowing up a team with that profile was just plain dumb.  san antonio  has taken a different path, one that detroit could have taken and one that would have fit detroit much better.  (bringing in a guy like chris wilcox, who’d been on the market for years, would have been one of those tweaks that could have yielded great results. imho.  joe never wanted to spend the money while wilcox was on his old contract, and waited until he could get him for cheap before he signed him.  i always thought a guy like wilcox – extremely athletic, shotblocker, physical, active – would have been exactly the shot in the arm the team needed.) and it has proven to be dumb. and attempts to justify it by making inapplicable comparisons to other teams cannot justify that dumb mistake. you are certainly welcome to your opinion, though, imho, history has shown that the course you advocate did happen and was disastrously wrong.  trading your all star point guard, your team leader, qualifies as “blowing” the team up by any measure.  we don’t have to speculate about that issue, the record is there for everyone to see.
             

    • Feb 19, 201210:42 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      I disagree with you frankie. I really think Boston held onto there big 3 a season too long and it has a lot of similarities to the situation Detroit was faced with. We held onto Rip and Rasheed too long while they still had value and look where that had us. It is not too late for the Celtics to get some value for there big 3 but they definitely wont get equal value mainly because they waited too long. I am sure Ainge is facing the same thing Joe faced and that is the feeling that you can always hopefully manufacture that one last run. When to rebuild a team must be the hardest decision for a GM to make and as much credit as you give him for building a contender i think you have to also give him just as much credit for when he pulls the plug on one. I know its hindsight but i have always felt Joe should of rebuilt around Billups while trading Rip and Rasheed. Keeping Afflalo and Stuckey throughout the duration of there rookie contacts would freed up enough money to sure up our front court. Joe didn’t do this because he didn’t want to take a couple of steps back and maybe not contend for a season or two.

      • Feb 20, 20122:20 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        i actually agree with what you post here.  the only difference is that i don’t think the detroit situation was anywhere close to what boston’s was.  detroit had a core of very nice young players, a relatively young, injury-free leader at the team’s most important position in chauncey, and good vets who could have brought nice assets in return.
        just imagine this…
        after the 2008 season, joe had a nice team with a mix of young and old.  he had rip, chauncey, sheed, tay and dice as his vets.  then he had stuckey, AA, maxiell and amir as young players coming into their own.
        so, looking at the draft, what does the team need?
        they have their young backcourt.  they have a couple of bigs who can at least be rotation players.  they have a small forward who is going to be there for the next 5-7 years.  
        they obviously need another big guy, a C/F who can block shots and protect the rim.
        flash to that year’s draft.
        joe has a late first rounder, but by happenstance, he has a chance to draft deandre jordan.
        he passes.
        now imagine if he’d done what looks like that rational thing and drafted jordan that year.  imho, detroit is set up for the next 5-7 years.   they have a good young backcourt.  they have their wing players (tay, with stuckey and AA swinging up front occasionally.  and the assorted draft choice as wings are the easiest players to get in drafts.) and now they have a deep rotation of young bigs – max, amir, jordan and maybe a young vet like wilcox.
        one smart move could have set detroit up for quite a while, with the team joe had built by ’08.
        it is that realization, which was by no means impossible to achieve, that makes his screw-up even more epic.   one easy, smart move that was there for the taking could have done it.
        (omer asik and nikola pekovic, two other young centers taken in the first 6 pics of the second round could also have fit in well, but jordan was the no-brainer that year.   joe’s failure to draft him – and drafting sleepy sharpe – is his worst mistake since he’s been the gm. )
        boston is nowhere near that position.  their roster could absorb a jordan-like player and still be a wreck for the next 3-5 years.

  • Feb 19, 201210:15 pm
    by DVS

    Reply

    I’m really liking the Stuckey knight backcourt.
    Once Knight gets more confidence and the game slows down for him i think we’ll see both guys thrive.
    Stuckey didn’t shoot all that well tonight, but he was still having a positive impact on the game with his defense and drawing fouls. hopefully he can continue with this kind of play for the rest of the season

    • Feb 20, 20126:11 am
      by swish22

      Reply

      Stuckey played very hard trying to stay on Ray Allen.  After losing him on consecutive posessions he really worked hard staying with him as the Pistons strategy was obvious to keep Ray from beating them from three land!  His O may have suffered a little because of that.  Missed a few free throws!   Great seeing Bynum buying into the Frank’s defense first philosophy!  I would think he earned a few more minutes with his D and that sends the message throughout the roster!   Hard to believe they could shoot that fg% and beat anybody that easily.

  • Feb 19, 201210:29 pm
    by damian

    Reply

    i can fuck with the knight/stuckey backcourt if this progression continues.

    • Feb 20, 201212:21 am
      by D_S_V

      Reply

      I didn’t see this coming, but I think I too, can fuck with the knight/stuckey back court also if this continues.

  • Feb 19, 201210:36 pm
    by Kk

    Reply

    So now were at this point where the Pistons can make the playoffs (fingers crossed) I for one, never really think that tanking is the best thing to do; its hard to pick up free agents on losing teams.

    As Im watching this game, its still apparent that the front court needs so serious help. I’m pretty excited to see Charlie V come back (if he comes back this season) and I’d like to see him paired up with Greg Monroe.

    The problem w last season was there was no front court, so we were more reliant on Charlie Vs streakiness as a player. Now, we have more options, Maxiell seems to be doing a solid job, obviously Monroe, and I think the most important thing is that our expectations for CV and Ben Gordon have dipped significantly enough where we don’t have to be constantly feeding them the ball to make them earn their pay checks.

    CV is what Dumars wants as a player, which is why I believe he picked him up, a stand up guy w a good attitude that doesn’t complain. I think that this particular set of Pistons can utilize CV the best: If he has a hot hand, ride it, if not, then we can go back to how our front court is set up now. I think that its important for CV to come back in as soon as possible; it seems like, win or lose, there is some actual bonding between the players this season that we haven’t seen in a long time and he should have enough time to fit in. 

    The question is: what do you think will happen should CV come in? A lot of the regular readers are so anti-CV and Dumars that I’m sure the responses here  will be entertaining, but we’re more or less stuck w who we have (and any trade possibility won’t be a blockbuster thing) this year.

    • Feb 19, 201210:57 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      CV doesn’t fit in with this team whatsoever but guess it is nice to hope. He does however bring instant offense which this team definitely needs but his defense is non-existent. If only he could improve his defense to the point where it was decent then you could make an argument for him for finding a spot in the rotation. It is clear that Joe will use the amnesty on either CV or BG and i guess the last half of the season will be an audition to see who it is used on. If we manage to get a good shot blocker/defender in the draft then i would imagine CVs days in Detroit are numbered. Having said that SG are a dime a dozen and CVs deal is not as bad as BGs so i would be surprised to see BG amnestied either.

  • Feb 19, 201210:52 pm
    by andyf

    Reply

    headsup, score was 96-81, not 91-86

  • Feb 19, 201210:55 pm
    by shawn brown

    Reply

    CV was signed because joe d obviously thought he was getting a poor mans version of corliss w. what your seeing from frank is a system which maximizes the players strengths.  it will be interesting to see what you get from CV in this system.   all you want from ben gorden is shot making, just make open jumpers, dont try to pass , just shoot.   id like to CV stay down low.   and yes, id like him to play defense but if you ve watched him over the course of his career thats never been his forte.   BG was signed for his shooting and CV was signed to be a scorer. i still maintain that this team really needs an athletic shot blocker and rebounder.    i really do like the fact that they are playing hard.   as a die hard pistons fan id rather see them winning then losing.

    • Feb 19, 201211:01 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      The complicating issue with CV is his conditioning. Frank is proving himself as a coach who is improving at understanding what he has to work with and how to maximize strengths and minimize flaws of his roster. I’m confident that he could work with a healthy, in-shape Villanueva. But even if Villanueva comes back healthy, he was reportedly not even in good shape when he played for the Dominican Republic at the Worlds over the summer. I think it’s a stretch to think he can contribute anything this season, but we’ll see.

      And I totally agree with your last point. Especially after the three years. Seeing a team, even one that has significant deficiencies, play as hard as these guys play is much more watchable.

    • Feb 19, 201211:03 pm
      by gmehl

      Reply

      Gordon is on superstar money so i am afraid he is ‘paid’ to do more than just score. The problem is score is the only thing he can do and it is our GMs fault that he paid him superstar money. Hopefully our GM can swallow his pride and admit his mistake and amnesty BG. I can live with one bad contract on our team but definitely not two.

      • Feb 20, 20126:26 am
        by swish22

        Reply

        Gordon gives us scoring off the bench and I thought his energy defensively last night and for the most part this season has been solid! HE can make free throws and can hit shots in the clutch.  I like the 3 guard rotation as all three can score in different ways. I like the tinkering with the 3 guards also when in the lead! 
         As far as getting any usefullness out of CV he can obviously shoot the ball and there’s nothing wrong with him being on the floor in all 2 for 1 end of quarter situations.  I’ve just never seen any lateral quickness from the guy to make me think he can make stops at this level. Could be lack of conditioning.   Kudos to all for working very hard in these recent games!   Winning and teamwork should always supercede draft order!

      • Feb 20, 20122:31 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        i’ve changed my mind on the amnesty issue.
        initially, i’d thought that CV should be the guy amnestied.
        BG can play – even though he is overpaid – while CV is a stiff.
        now, i think that using amnesty on BG is probably the thing to do.  it will be a travesty when he starts making 13 million in a couple of years.   you can find guys making a third of that amount who give you more.  what does gordon do that boobie gibson doesn’t do?  and gibson makes about 4 million per.
        so gordon’s deal is so bad, it is worth getting rid of a good player.
        CV’s deal is bad also.  but it isn’t quite as bad as BG’s.  and he may have a bit of trade value.  if he’s healthy, a contender can always use a big guy who can come in and shoot from the 3 point range.  guys like him, even overpaid, one-dimensional ones, always have some value. look at how long a guy like tim thomas hung around stealing money.
        and, CV will have only one more guaranteed year, at 8 million, with another year at the team’s option.  
        he’s got a bad deal, yes, but a deal that can be worked.  
        so, yea, go ahead and amnesty BG, let bynum play his minutes and trade CV.
        unfortunately, because joe invested so much in both, it’s unlikely that he will do so.

      • Feb 20, 20129:34 pm
        by Max

        Reply

        http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm
        Top 30 salaries listed on link.  No Gordon.  No Pistons.  Gordon is not making superstar money.

  • Feb 19, 201211:22 pm
    by Mark

    Reply

    Don’t see how you can write off the playoffs this soon, only 5.5 back with 33 games left, and hold the current tie-breaker over Boston, the team likely they’d be battling with for that 8th spot.

    This BOS team looks finished. And of the teams outside looking in, the Pistons look like the best of the bunch right now. They actually resemble a low seed playoff team, the way they are defending consistenly, and winning 7 of 9.

    If they can sneak in like PHI did last year and play a hard fought 1st round series against a top seed, even if they get swept or lose in 5, it could be a springboard for next year. And that worked out pretty well for PHI this year.

    Just look at the games we played against MIA and CHI, we can play those teams close, and if we did that in the playoffs for 4-5 games and maybe win one, that’d be huge for our climb back to contention.

  • Feb 19, 201211:35 pm
    by neutes

    Reply

    2-10 is well? Stuckey, Knight, and Gordon went a combined 7-24. The team as a whole shot 37%. Yeah Stuckey shot some free throws, which he usually does, but so did everyone else. We shot 30 more free throws than the Celtics, and shot them horribly on top of that. This is one messed up looking box score.

    • Feb 20, 201212:07 am
      by Chris Woj

      Reply

      2-10 is well when the end result is 16 efficient points. If you’re 2-10 for 16, that is more efficient than 8-10 for 16. Why? Because despite those missed shots, you’re getting to the rim and drawing fouls on the other team. It puts the Celtics in the penalty, and it puts their men on the bench.

  • Feb 19, 201211:54 pm
    by Chris Woj

    Reply

    This is an incredibly frustrating time to be a Piston fan. Right now the team is playing hard, and has definitely turned a corner. They’re 7-3 in February, and played a tough Spurs team very tight in one of those losses. Stuckey has clearly begun to settle in as a scorer, without much worry for distributing (and those years we forced him to distribute could help him in the long run even as a scoring guard, giving him a more efficient game). Knight is slowly becoming more comfortable with the speed and tempo of the NBA game, though tonight he still looked out of control on some breaks. Monroe is what he is – a great low post scorer, fantastic feel for moving the ball, and he works hard on defense.

    But they’re missing a key component right now. As many have said: they need an athletic big man that can play above the rim and has a passion for defensive play. I’m looking at Robinson, Drummond, Davis… Those three guys are going to go in the top 5 of this year’s NBA draft. All of this winning is going to play the Pistons out of a surefire top 5 pick and the opportunity to draft someone that they’ll be able to pair with Monroe for a dynamic down low tandem that covers all of the bases on both ends of the floor.

    This brings me back to the frustration of being a Pistons fan right now. I want them to win, I love watching them win. I love seeing them smack the Celtics in the face. I really do. But a part of me keeps wondering if they’re not sacrificing the next half of a decade for a season that at best results in an 8 seed shellacking at the hands of the Miami Heat or Chicago Bulls. Don’t get me wrong, I understand fully that winning is huge for young guys like Monroe, Stuckey, and Knight. The confidence they get by winning games is invaluable.

    Which would you say is more valuable? The confidence gained by playing winning basketball, or an Andre Drummond/Anthony Davis/Thomas Robinson calibre big to pair next to Monroe?

    • Feb 20, 201212:44 am
      by gmehl

      Reply

      I would say we actually are missing 2 key components.

      An athletic defensive minded big…preferably a center.
      Another big in the mold of say a Carl Landry/Corliss Williamson.

    • Feb 20, 20126:52 am
      by vic

      Reply

      I think the draft is way more important than the winning… but I don’t think its that big a deal.
      Yes it would be nice to get Davis/Drummond. But this draft is pretty deep, i still think we will end up getting what we need.

      there’s even an intriquing new guy Tony Mitchell (a long pf who blocks and dunks). who’s under the radar because he’s only played 13 games. But one analyst rates him #2 in this draft behind Anthony Davis http://hoopsanalyst.com/blog/?p=802 – this is the analyst recently famed for predicting that Jeremy Lin would be a star 2 years ago. 

      So even if we end up picking #7, there’s still possibly Tony Mitchell,  John Henson, Meyers Leonard.
      There’s also Feb Melo, Festuz Ezeli that maybe available in round 2. 

      So I’m a little disappointed that we’re less likely to get a top 3 pick. But this draft is very deep with PFs and Cs.

  • Feb 20, 20122:35 am
    by Herman Neutic

    Reply

    Couldn’t agree more, Chris. Only thing I would add is that, while I think that hiring Lawrence Frank was a brilliant move, I’m afraid that Detroit brought him in a year too early because he is going to get this year’s team to overachieve. I’m afraid the best situation for the Pistons right now is to limit their victories to the “moral” variety.

  • Feb 20, 20123:54 am
    by ryan

    Reply

    Had the same thought as Chris, and apparently a lot of other folks, we need to get a high draft pick in order for this franchise to move forward but we also need to build the young fellas confidence. I’m hoping that we get hit with more loses at this point. i’m glad we made the run but if it keeps going it’s only going to hurt us.
     
    I also agree that we’re missing more than one piece. We need an Anthony Davis type interior defender and rebounder who can score when open, we also need a lock down perimeter defender like Tony Allen which is why I so badly want to draft Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Given how unlikely that is are their any later first round or second round guys who can become lock down defenders? Can we get an additional first round pick for Austin Daye? Can we get anything for Ben Gordon?

    • Feb 20, 20125:38 am
      by Chris Woj

      Reply

      If Gordon keeps shooting like he is, maybe we can get some salary relief for him. That is about it. Daye is pretty much a D-League commodity at this point though. He has proven that when the game isn’t physical, he can put up numbers. But as soon as there’s consistent contact he falls to pieces. Look at the way he plays in the preseason vs the regular season. He simply doesn’t have the frame to play NBA ball and I don’t think anyone sees him putting on the muscle to last despite his shot.

  • Feb 20, 20123:59 am
    by ryan

    Reply

    One more question. Do we go with Michael Kidd-Gilchrist if Davis and Robinson are both gone?

  • Feb 20, 20124:39 am
    by Nick

    Reply

    I know the pistons need bigs, but in this draft I would take Barnes or Gilchrist if they are available. In my opinion Davis or Drummond are not the answer for the Pistons. Davis will get eaten alive because he is too skinny. Drummond just has too much bust potential. I also like the Leonard kid in Illinois.He plays with alot of heart and he is a athletic legit 7 foot center that plays defense.

    • Feb 20, 20125:36 am
      by Chris Woj

      Reply

      I agree with the sentiment on Barnes – he is very hard to pass up if he is available. But I feel like we won’t have the #2 pick, and that is where I see him going. I see what you mean about Davis – but if you’re going to hate on Davis you can’t like Meyers. Meyers is taller but still thin. Davis plays with a lot of heart as well, is a legit PF that plays defense. And PF/C are interchangeable in this league, what matters is that you have two complementary bigs – which Davis and Monroe would be, as would Meyers and Monroe.

      Not a big fan of Kidd-Gilchrist, dunno why. He’s about 2 inches taller than Stuckey and plays a similar game, with a bit more hard-nosed defense. Attacks the rim like a bulldozer, but can’t shoot. We have that. We need a swing that complements Stuckey, not one that mimics him.

  • Feb 20, 20129:32 am
    by Geezer

    Reply

    I believe that the Pistons need to win as much as possible, and I hope that they do sneak into the playoffs. We put too much emphasis on what one or two players could do to turn this team around. Let’s not forget the disaster that was last season, which most of these players were a part of. Thus, there is a dire need for a culture change, so these players can experience a level of success and BUY IN to the system coach Frank has in place. Otherwise a top pick will not matter for this team next year and we will continue to stockpile lottery picks and lose promising players to free agency. Landing a top 5 pick doesn’t guarantee anything. The Chicago Bulls, during the post Jordan era, from 1999-2006 drafted the following players as top 5 picks:
    1999 Elton Brand #1
    2000 Marcus Fizer #4
    2001 Eddy Curry #4 ( acquired Tyson Chandler via trade for Elton Brand the same draft who was the #2 pick)
    2002 Jay Williams #2
    2004 Ben Gordon #3
    2006 Lamarcus Aldridge #2(traded for Tyrus Thomas the #4 pick)
    The Bulls fortunes didn’t change until they were able to land the top pick in 2008 with Derrick Rose and as of last season they became championship contenders.
    It took the Bulls 10 years to finally become a perennial contender. I don’t want this team to become dependent on high draft picks to produce a winning team.
     

    • Feb 20, 201211:53 am
      by apa8ren9

      Reply

      Thanks Geezer.  I made this point in a post about a month ago.  Same applies to the Clippers.  How many years of lottery did it take before they got Griffin a true franchise player?  I think about 15.  But the point remains.  No matter where you pick you have to get the right guy.  You cannot sacrifice everything just to get the number one pick unless you are the Clippers that have had nothing.  We have already have 2 potential pieces and they have to be developed.  Any way this was a very good game.  We controlled it and led comfortably most of the way.   I am enjoying this stretch and we are trending in the right direction.  I can finally argue optimistically and enjoy some support from winning games to quiet down some of the naysayers that wont give the Pistons credit no matter what they do.

    • Feb 20, 20122:37 pm
      by vic

      Reply

      thats a really good point. We should be happy for winning and improvement, look at what Lebron did to Cleveland. They drafted the best player ever in the draft, but had a losing culture and bad management.
      Winning is best.

  • Feb 20, 201211:04 am
    by Biff Tannen

    Reply

    Same old Pistons. Win enough games to ensure they’re not likely to get a top 3 pick, but not enough to be considered anything more than a mediocre lottery team.

  • Feb 20, 201211:42 am
    by jayg108

    Reply

    Is it possible that in the next few years, the Pistons look like the Sixers do now?  The Sixers management built a smart, hard working team without relying on lottery picks.  Evan Turner did not turn their team around.  No guarantees a lottery pick will turn around the Pistons.
     
    I liked what I heard from Prince post game when he was asked about the win: “Energy!”  The turnaround for the Pistons is because they’re buying into the quicker pace.  I’m hopeful because this came from Prince’s mouth, who used to slow down the “energy.”

  • Feb 20, 201212:09 pm
    by apa8ren9

    Reply

    @ jayg108  Man, my point was cut off and didnt post.  But what I wanted to say was that several bigs are getting old. Yes there is an opportunity for us to improve very quickly if the current group starts winning.  (Garnett, Duncan, Gasol).  That will be 3 teams that fall into the “mediocrity” that everyone keeps talking about . In the mean time we will be on the rise.  I am cosigning your point.  But winning will make the slot next to Monroe that much more attractive with the Pistons via trade, draft or free agency since Knight is a rookie and Monroe is only 22.  With Stuckey you have a solid nucleus to build upon and go from there.  Get me some more Koolaid!  Go Pistons!

  • Feb 20, 201212:31 pm
    by Stuckey and Whoever

    Reply

    With all the should we win, or better our odds with the draft talk.  Ill say I liked Bismack before the draft and wanted to draft a big.  Thought Joe and the staff was crazy for drafting Knight.  (Another guard are you serious!!??)  But now who can tell me what Bismack is doing??  And Knight is playing the most toughest spot on the floor, he is young and still continues to make small steps in the right direction.  And for a rookie you can’t complain about his numbers.  They have got solid picks in the draft and with Wallace retiring I’m interesting in seeing if Macklin will get more playing time.  At least as a solid sub.  When you have a shot at turning the season around I don’t think their should be thoughts about the team tanking the season to get the top picks.  The staff and team our working together and winning is the ultimate cure for everything on a team.  A lot of work needs to be done but you can’t help but to be happy for these guys for the way they have been playing lately.

    • Feb 20, 20121:18 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      “But now who can tell me what Bismack is doing??”

      Averaging 5 points, 7 rebounds and 2 blocks in 24 minutes a game in February. He’s playing really well since Charlotte increased his minutes/role.

      I like Knight as much as anyone, but Biyombo is going to be a good player and is still exactly what the Pistons needed.

       

      • Feb 20, 20121:55 pm
        by Stuckey and Whoever

        Reply

        Good call.  His numbers are better sense he has been getting more minutes.  I did not notice that, my fault on that one.  It is a small sample size but I do see your point that most teams including us would most likely always have a spot on their roster for a player like him.

    • Feb 20, 20122:44 pm
      by vic

      Reply

      Bismack almost had a triple double with blocks the other night. (or maybe he actually got the double double).
      The guy they compare him to, Ibaka actually did. 

      The other guy I wanted if we had gotten Biyombo – Isaiah Thomas – just had a near triple double too last night. He’s a defensive liability but with Biyombo protecting the paint it would have maximized his value. He was the absolute last player picked in the draft. He’s the Kings best PG even though they drafted Jimmer in round 1 and have Tyreke Evans.

      Don’t mean to toot my own horn but Joe D should hire me:-D lol

    • Feb 20, 20129:42 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      Bismack was drafted first so he wasn’t an option anyway.

  • Feb 20, 201212:38 pm
    by Stuckey and Whoever

    Reply

    Right after I made my post I just happened to find this
    http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2012/02/detroit_pistons_lawrence_frank_3.html

  • Feb 20, 201212:55 pm
    by Steve K

    Reply

    I can’t believe I’m gonna be the pessimist amongst this group… but here goes…

    The Pistons had a rigorous beginning to the season. Of the first 24 games, they won just 4. As has been pointed out on this site, this Piston team is bordering on historically bad.

    Currently, they’re on a run of games against sub .500 teams. They’ve managed to win 7 of 9. Yet, they still lost to San Antonio and the dreadful Wizards. The Pistons did manage to beat the Garnett-less Celtics twice and the Lopez-less Nets.

    So are they historically bad? Perhaps not. Are they going to contend for the playoffs? Seriously? For those that are worried the Pistons are playing themselves out of a top pick, don’t fret. Just wait a few more weeks. This team ain’t going anywhere.

    Now, don’t get me wrong…  I’m thrilled they’re winning some games. I’m a firm believer in the mental game, and these young kids needed some good news to keep the locker-room from devolving into, well, a typical Pistons’ drama-rific locker-room. I’m also thrilled with the development of Knight and especially Stuckey. He’s turned into a truly tough matchup for the opposition. Kudos to Frank for getting something tangible from this lot.

    • Feb 20, 20121:19 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      You’re exactly right, Steve. The Pistons played arguably the toughest schedule in the league to start out the season. The schedule has softened up drastically for them. They’re probably not as good as they’ve been lately and they weren’t as bad as they looked early.

    • Feb 20, 20123:12 pm
      by vic

      Reply

      yes that’s a good point too, very true.
      but  they are really playing better, and like you said Lawrence Frank has made some good decisions too.

      Cutting the rotation down.
      Putting Max as starter.
      Letting them run more and have more freedom.

      Really all we need to do is get someone defensively bigger and better than Maxiell through the draft or a trade, and we’re on our way.

  • Feb 20, 20121:49 pm
    by RyanK

    Reply

    You have the score wrong in your post.

  • Feb 20, 20122:41 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    what is the team’s mission?
    is it to muddle through and stay in mid-lottery hell for the next 3-5 years?
    or is it to build for the future?
    any coach is always going to try to win every game he can.  it’s their nature.
    but the idea that the team will somehow be better next year because they win 5 more games is shown to be false, repeatedly.
    is the team better now because tmac helped them go 30-52 instead of 25-57?
    will the team be worse off if it goes 15-51 as opposed to 25-41? 
    i’d argue that getting a lower draft position and a better player will have a much more powerful impact than whatever psychological benefit that accrues because the team wins 10 more games.  in fact, i doubt that any positive benefit attaches because the team wins 25 as opposed to 15 games.
    there will be a big difference, however, if the team is able to draft a davis or drummond or kidd-gilchrist or robinson, and that will result in more wins long term.
    additionally, what happens at the end of this year after watching daye and macklin watch games from the bench?
    after this year, what do you know about macklin?  can he play? will you need to bring in a young player to do some of the things he might be able to do? daye?
    its the same old series of questions that have been asked for the last few years.    it is remarkable that the team is still trying to figure out how to navigate those questions.

    • Feb 20, 20126:39 pm
      by apa8ren9

      Reply

      I think you are off base on this one frankie.  You have been to the lottery twice already and you think that you have hit with Monroe and Knight.  Those extra wins are more valuable to the development of your current players than the value of the extra ping pong balls.  I think that everyone said that this is going to be a quality draft.  Just like the last two drafts you pick the right guy when its your turn. Thats it.  Dumars cant get credit for the last 2 guys he drafted by some people.  Why do they want us sacrifice the wins, complain about how bad we are and then HOPE (not a guarantee) HOPE that we get a top 3 pick.  That’s not a strategy/philosophy that people get paid millions to implement.  Now to your point, what Frank is doing is absolutely right.  No matter who gets put in there they should perform.  He put Bynum in for a few minutes and what did he do – he played well.  Well you know what then Russell will sit as long as Bynum plays well.  He did the same for Daye.  Daye played well for a few games then fell off the cliff again.  So you know what he has to do- BE READY.  You cant sacrifice potential wins because we need to see what macklin can do.  You know where Macklin will play?  I will be seeing him play during the summer league in Vegas.  Then you will see if he can play.

    • Feb 20, 20129:56 pm
      by Max

      Reply

      @Frankie   The Pistons are not as limited as you are in their ability to both evaluate whether Macklin can contribute and whether he will be able to contribute.  Playing time in NBA games is just one standard of many and I don’t know why you are so focused on it when you have said how you watch summer league games etc in the past.   Further, I don’t know of any situations throughout the league that go according to your prescription so what you are suggesting is way outside the box.  Where are younger players just given time over older players who are quite obviously their superior?
      You think they should keep playing Daye no matter how badly he plays?  Might not this not totally destroy his confidence rather than stabilize it?   Won’t this expose him and make his trade value even worse than if he was a 6-11 mystery man?  Won’t this send the wrong message to everyone else on the team?  Might it not kill his incentive to get better?  And finally, might it not be that his days of being a good contributor are still years ahead?
      Lin was not on the Pistons radar as Frank said because of their depth.  Walker Russell was an emergency add due to injuries and Lin was added to due to a combination of a hole at point guard in general for the Knicks and a rash of injuries.

  • Feb 20, 20125:00 pm
    by yabbadetroit16

    Reply

    stuckey and knight are the future of this team

    so is monroe

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