Feb 6, 2012 • 6:01 pmby Max
I voted B+ if anyone else wants to go public.
Feb 6, 2012 • 8:50 pmby frankie d
Feb 6, 2012 • 9:37 pmby BIGMARV
C-: I think that darko pick really killed him but he did pick up some good players with Prince, Jerebko, Knight and Monroe which look like he can be a center piece for this team. But I think in that Darko year Joe could have picked a Franchise player with either Carmelo Anthony or Bosh. But Joe Have had some Bad and I mean Bad duds during his tenure so I can only give him a mediocre grade.
Feb 6, 2012 • 11:58 pmby Biff
I gave him an F. Dumars drafted Darko over Wade, Anthony, Bosh, and hell, even Chris Kaman.
Monroe and Knight fell into his lap, it was a no-brainer. Those guys didn’t even work out for Detroit.
Austin Daye? He’s a few disappointing seasons away from starting his European career. In that same draft he passed on DeJuan Blair TWICE! DeJuan Summers? Terrible pick. Can’t even cut it in Europe.
Stuckey essentially fell to them as well, as he was expected to be a top 10 pick. Aaron Afflalo was a great pick, but he traded him away for nothing. Now? He would trade any wing player on his roster for him (minue Knight)
Jerebko was really the only draft pick that I would consider smart. And even at that, everything he does will always pale in the Darko pick.
Feb 7, 2012 • 12:22 amby tarsier
I dunno where you were reading. But everything I saw had Stuckey as a late first rounder; mid twenties. Darko was one terrible pick. but this doesn’t even reference Monroe or Knight (and I still don’t get this Knight talk, he was expected to go higher because other teams were expected to reach for a need. He was not considered a top 5 prospect). As for passing on Blair twice, that was unfortunate but tons of people did. You’re analysis is the exact idiocy that previous posts were trying to point out the flaws in.
Feb 7, 2012 • 12:41 amby Mike Payne
Joe Dumars grades:
Free Agency (MLE or less): A
Free Agency (> MLE): Dick -
Feb 7, 2012 • 8:28 amby MrHappyMushroom
I’m glad most are recognizing that Joe has been a fairly good drafter. The obvious misses are overcome by the shrewd moves, 2008 stupidity not withstanding.
The problem is that Joe has become a very poor judge of talent while in the NBA. Either the game has changed since he was good, or he’s locked into a mindset that has made him a lousy GM after game day.
Dumping Johnson and Alflallo without cause is the starting point of his ineptitude. But consider the last five big contracts that he’s negotiated–Rip, Charlie, Gordon, and Tay. I’m still tentatively okay with Stuckey. But the other four are about as bad a use for $150 million dollars as once could imagine.
You subtract the four albatrosses and trade them for AJ and AA and give the Pistons something like $30 million a year in cap space? And add that to the good picks–Monroe, JJ, and Knight (right for this team? Don’t know? Likely to be good player–sure.) and there would be some real hope for the future.
Feb 7, 2012 • 8:48 amby Max
Afflalo signed for 43 million and Amir Johnson signed for 34 so they’d eat up 77 million of that 150 and have more years left on their deals than BG or CV. I also don’t think the team would be particularly better because as I have said elsewhere, Afflalo. Amir and Delfino have no better than C/C+ NBA ceilings and are not building blocks for a championship. Trade BG, CV and Prince this year for those three players and I doubt whether the team could win 10 more games but if they won 6-7, it would simply hurt their chances of drafting a franchise player and anyone would gladly trade either of the two sets of three players for a franchise player.
Feb 7, 2012 • 9:15 amby Patrick Hayes
Afflalo, Amir Johnson and Delfino are better than anyone the Pistons currently have other than Monroe and maybe Stuckey (though not this year, as Stuckey has not been good so far). So they are better players who make less money. Even if they aren’t going to make the team contenders, they all still have value. Gordon and Villanueva have negative value. There is no trade out there for those two that is going to bring back much other than equally useless contracts in return.
Feb 7, 2012 • 4:17 pmby Max
I totally disagree but I won’t substantiate because we’d wind up repeating ourselves.
Feb 7, 2012 • 8:49 amby Max
And the Pistons could never sign a franchise player even if they got under the cap.
Feb 7, 2012 • 9:12 amby Patrick Hayes
Why do you only think in terms of franchise players though? If they don’t get under the cap, they can’t sign any free agents except for minimum salary guys. If they aren’t under the cap, they can’t take back more salary than they send out in a trade.
Sure, cap space doesn’t necessarily = your team will strike it rich in free agency. But why is having financial flexibility a bad thing?
Feb 7, 2012 • 4:28 pmby Max
Also, I don’t only think in terms of franchise players, but I do believe the Pistons have one in Monroe and that their last title team did not. I also believe that they have a high likelihood of landing one this year and if so, they will have two franchise players on the roster for the first time in their entire history. I’d call Isiah, Grant Hill and Bob Lanier franchise player but I think Dumars and Bing just miss the cut because they are not quite dynamic enough even though they are great hall of famers.
Feb 7, 2012 • 4:30 pmby Max
Another thing—I thought Dumars should have used his money as you suggest by taking in another team’s player but you should always remember that such a transaction means that a team wants to get rid of said player and or his contract and so unless it’s a Rasheed/Sprewell kind of situation, you are usually not going to get great talent.
Feb 7, 2012 • 4:33 pmby Max
Further, you may note that most trade exceptions which are an oppurtinuty like to being under the cap regarding taking in another teams player more often expire than get used.
Feb 7, 2012 • 4:20 pmby Max
Because contenders need to be way over the cap and when you go under the cap it takes years to get way over the cap, It worked for Miami to an extent last year and their chief reason they didn’t win the title last year was a lack of depth that was unavoidable due to going under the cap. This year, they are a little deeper and their roster is a little more expensive and next year they will add to their cap again. It is a process and not one that really works unless you actually land players like LBJ, Wade and Bosh. The last time Dumars built this team into a contender they were always over the cap.
Feb 7, 2012 • 6:41 pmby tarsier
“contenders need to be way over the cap”
counter points: Thunder, Clippers, 76ers, Pacers, Nuggets, Blazers and let’s throw in last year’s Heat and Bulls for good measure.
Feb 7, 2012 • 4:23 pmby Max
Dallas is another good example—they have been winning 50 plus games a year for a decade and have always been way over the cap. This has not stopped them from tinkering with the roster from year to year and when they won their title last year it had nothing to do with being way over the cap and paying Brendan Haywood 10 million a year to do nothing didn’t hurt them and rather added to their flexibility moving forward this year because they felt they could let Chandler go and not pay him the absurd amount the Knicks did.
Feb 8, 2012 • 3:45 pmby Dan Feldman
And they’ve been way over the luxury tax, something the Pistons have never done.
Feb 7, 2012 • 4:24 pmby Max
I should have said it had everything to do with being over the cap but that being over the cap for a decade didn’t hurt but helped them win their title.
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