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Pistons start tough stretch tonight against Philadelphia


  • Teams: Philadelphia 76ers at Detroit Pistons
  • Date: Feb. 28, 2012
  • Time: 7:30 p.m.
  • Television: Fox Sports Detroit


  • Pistons: 11-24
  • Sixers: 20-14

Probable starters



  • Jrue Holiday
  • Jodie Meeks
  • Andre Iguodala
  • Elton Brand
  • Lavoy Allen

Las Vegas projection

Spread: Pistons +4

Over/under: 182.5

Score: Sixers win, 93.25-89.25


Read about the Sixers



  • Feb 28, 20127:03 pm
    by frankie d


    wonder if jodie meeks has a good game tonight.
    he broke out of his daye-like slump against detroit earlier in the year.
    collins rescued a player, kept him from having a horrible year by continuing to start him, despite a horrible shooting stretch at the beginning of the year.
    that is how you handle a young player going through a shooting slump.  you don’t screw around with his head and confidence, or else you’ll lose him.
    one of the reasons collins has a mediocre, mismatched collection of players – no more talented than detroit – at the top of the division.

    • Feb 28, 20128:09 pm
      by frankie d


      its funny.

    • Feb 28, 20128:32 pm
      by Patrick Hayes


      Hahaha … you sell so hard for your man Austin. Meeks’ slump wasn’t Daye-like. He was 3-for-14 on threes going into that game and shooting about 35 percent overall. That’s not great shakes, but Daye would kill for numbers like that right about now.

  • Feb 28, 20128:18 pm
    by frankie d


    my comment keeps getting cut off.
    anyway, was just saying that it is funny because meeks is apparently in the middle of another bad shooting slump.
    something like 3 of 21 the last few games.
    but, collins still starts him, and he is still out there shooting.
    the pistons announcers, talking about holliday, said that collins told him to just keep shooting, not to worry about missing shots. (as an oldtime gunner, collins is well aware of how to think that way.)  holliday plays with a lot of confidence.  all the sixers are playing with lots of confidence.
    funny what can happen when young players get a lot of confidence from their coach. they tend to play with lots of confidence.

    • Feb 28, 20128:33 pm
      by Patrick Hayes


      Being good at basketball in the first place helps their coaches have confidence in them. Daye hasn’t proven that he is a NBA player yet.

      • Feb 28, 20128:46 pm
        by frankie d


        had meeks, a second round pick proven anything?

        • Feb 28, 20128:57 pm
          by Patrick Hayes


          Shot 38 percent from three after he was traded to Philly as a rookie and started getting a bit of PT. Shot 40 percent from 3 in big minutes last year. Plays D.

          • Feb 28, 20129:10 pm
            by frankie d

            daye shot .401 last year also.  a touch behind gordon who led the team.
            plays d?  not according to local philly papers and the fans who comment.  i haven’t looked at his stats, but they seem to think he is pretty much one dimensional.
            my point with meeks however is simply that collins could have easily sat him down – as was being discussed in philly – at the start of the season when he was slumping.  he didn’t do that and stayed with him.
            imho, it is no coincidence that collins has a team playing with great confidence – even though everyone else knows they aren’t that good –  and that he has shown great confidence in players who are not playing well.
            ery human being alive responds well to having someone show confidence in their ability to perform.
            why is such a shock that nba players would respond the same way?

          • Feb 28, 20129:15 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            Daye played really limited minutes last year with that 40 percent shooting. Meeks was a starter/rotation player all year. Daye shot 30 percent from 3 as a rookie and he’s at 20 percent this year. So far, there’s more evidence that he’s a bad shooter than a good one. Meeks has been pretty consistent.

            As far as D, I assume he’s not a lockdown guy, but Collins is a defensive-minded coach and Philly is a great defensive team. I would assume that if he weren’t playing passable defense, he wouldn’t be playing much. Daye has never played anything that can be described as passable defense.

  • Feb 28, 20128:55 pm
    by swish22


    After watching Prince destroy our early momentum tonight I’ll all for giving Austin another shot at SF.  That last 20 minutes of the first half was some of the worst ball I’ve ever seen.   Only C Mo of the starters seemed to be ready tonight against a very physical athletic team.  
    Not sure anybody would even offer us anything for Prince the way he’s playing.
    Thank god we have a leader like that for the young guys to look up to! 

    • Feb 28, 20129:04 pm
      by Patrick Hayes


      Oh, me too. I don’t think Austin Daye is is good or deserving of minutes based on how terrible he’s played, but I would much rather watch him miss shots and claps his hands together after mistakes than watch Prince do whatever it is he supposedly does for this team.

    • Feb 28, 201211:04 pm
      by tarsier


      C Mo? I don’t know who that is and my only guess is Cuttino Mobley. Is he even still playing? I know he’s not on the Pistons.

  • Feb 28, 20129:05 pm
    by frankie d


    btw, has anyone ever heard frank tell his players to just keep shooting, regardless of whether they miss shots?

    • Feb 28, 20129:12 pm
      by Patrick Hayes


      So Daye sucking is Lawrence Frank’s fault? That’s what we’re going with?

      • Feb 28, 20129:32 pm
        by frankie d


        i look at it from the perspective of someone who has taught and been the supervisor of teachers.
        if i had a student – or if one of my instructors had had a student – who was talented and had experienced success previously, and then that student started failing miserably, when they got into my classroom or the classroom of one of the instructors i supervised, i would hold that person, or i would hold myself responsible.
        the student obviously had talent, and it is my job, as the instructor to tap into that talent and do whatever is necessary to get that student to perform to his capacity.  and i would expect my instructors to be able to get their students to perform and i would want to know why a particular student had fallen so miserably.  
        and no, i wouldn’t simply accept, as an excuse, that he/she was a difficult student.
        as instructors – as coaches are similarly expected – we are supposed to be able to deal with difficult individuals.
        now, the analogy is not perfect, but it is fairly close.  it is frank’s job to get his players to perform and if they are not performing up to a level they have shown they can perform, then yes, he is to some degree responsible.
        otherwise, why is he even there?
        i know some may not agree, but i don’t see that much difference in philly’s and detroit’s rosters.  certainly there are different players, but does philly have that much more talent than detroit?  does philly even have one player playing as well as monroe?  they are starting a rookie center, an old broken down warhorse, a second round draft choice and a couple of limited, though quality players.
        is philly’s talent worth 9 more wins and ten fewer losses?
        i don’t think so.  
        what i do see, however, is a team of young players playing with lots of confidence.
        and there is no question that the coach has a lot to do with that.
        as i noted in an earlier post, the detroit announcers commented on the fact that collins had admonished holliday to keep shooting and not to worry about missing. 
        having your coach say that – and demonstrate that he means it by doing something like keep playing meeks through a bad shooting slump – is worth gold to a player.  
        and philly’s success can be directly tied to that kind of confidence.   
        and can anyone imagine frank ever saying something of that sort to his players?

        • Feb 28, 201211:11 pm
          by tarsier


          He’s obviously talented relative to the competition at a high school level. And decently,but not overwhelmingly, so on the college level  s well. On the NBA level, there has been no indication that he is. I am for giving him some more chances but only because the Pistons have nothing to lose. In any other situation, he would have had plenty enough chances by now.

          He has played 166 games with an average of 16.6 minutes per game. That’s not a ton of minutes but it’s not 12th man minutes either (<10 mpg). And if he can’t even be halfway to mediocre in 17 mpg, he may be better but odds are he won’t be any great shakes if you give him 30 mpg.

          • Feb 29, 20121:08 am
            by frankie d

            that is just utter BS.  sorry.
            “no indication”?simply untrue, by any measure.
            he had the third highest number of 3 point shots last year.  while playing significantly fewer minutes than the players who had the first or second most 3 point shots. 
            he was in the top 30 in the entire league for 3 point shooting.  and the only 6’11 or taller player in that category.
            he essentially tied – .401 vs .402 for the best 3 point shooter honors on the pistons.
            facts.  i know those things can be tough to deal with sometimes, but you cannot simply ignore them.
            to say that there is “no indication” that he has an nba talent is simply false.
            he has shown, over the course of a season that he has nba level 3 point shooting talent. a talent which had been manifest going back to high school.
            imho, it is certainly legitimate to question whether he has the emotional or mental make up to be a quality nba player.  but the idea that he doesn’t possess at least one nba skill is simply BS that is made false by cold hard stats.
            there are plenty of nba players who have done nothing but stand in a corner and shoot jumpers.  guys have gotten paid lots of money to do that one thing, as it is a coveted nba skill.  especially in an almost seven foot body.
            get real….

          • Feb 29, 201210:23 am
            by tarsier

            There is indication that he has shooting ability. There is no indication that he is a decent NBA player. Because again, even last year, when he was much better than this year, he still sucked. He just shot threes well, well enough to look like if he developed the rest of his game, he could have an NBA future. Instead, the rest of his game looks even worse and his shooting is gone. Has he had big minutes this season? No, but he has significant ones. And again, if he can’t play decent ball in 15 mpg, why would you expect him to play good ball in 25 mpg?

            Finally, let me reiterate:
            I am for giving him some more chances but only because the Pistons have nothing to lose. In any other situation, he would have had plenty enough chances by now.

          • Feb 29, 20123:59 pm
            by frankie d

            any player who proves that he can shoot in the nba, qualifies as an nba-level shooter.
            austin daye shot .40% on over 170 3-point shots last season.
            therefore, austin daye has proven that he is an nba shooter.

      • Feb 28, 20129:38 pm
        by Patrick Hayes


        The fact is, some guys just don’t have the talent/desire/toughness to play in the NBA, regardless of coaching. Daye could just be one of those guys.

        • Feb 28, 201210:03 pm
          by frankie d


          no question daye could be one of those guys. it happens all of the time. in fact, that was one of the issues that was presented when he was drafted…whether he had the maturity and mental capability to play to his talent. which, imho, is all the more reason to have tread a bit more delicately with him. if you know beforehand that it is an issue, why would you behave as though it was not an issue at all? if the team didn’t want to deal with that aspect of austin daye, they should not have drafted him. what i’ve argued is that he has not been given the opportunity to truly show whether he has it or doesn’t have it. the insensitive way frank dealt with his early slump, imho, only made matters worse. giving someone a couple of games and then benching them is not the way to do it. and what was remarkable was that daye actually had what could have been a breakout game, and within 5 games, frank was back to yo-yoing his minutes. i look at how he has dealt with daye and the utter lack of confidence he has shown to macklin and don’t have a high regard for his ability to deal with those tough cases. i could easily destroy the confidence of the best student in half a semester, if i ever wanted to do so. nba coaches can do that in even less time. slumps happen. here in portland, raymond felton is going through a horrible slump. fans want to ride him out of town on a rail. he’s actually talking publicly about the impact of the coach NOT having confidence in him and how that is affecting his play. and felton has been in the league for a long time. thios iif a vet like felton is having his game destroyed by perceiving that his coach doesn’t have confidence in him, what does that same dynamic do to a young player who has not established himself.

          • Feb 28, 201210:24 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            Let’s be real: Felton’s game is also being destroyed because he’s fat as hell. He’s a good candidate for the Shawn Kemp Award of this year’s lockout.

  • Feb 28, 20129:46 pm
    by frankie d


    oh…so the fact that daye had been an excellent shooter in high school and in college and had shown flashes of that in the pros means nothing?

    • Feb 28, 20129:59 pm
      by swish22


      It’s not like he was playing any substantial minutes overseas during the lockout!!  This should have been a warning for the Daye fans if he couldn’t get minutes inn Europe!  His game has regressed and even when he did shoot the ball well last year he made a lot of bonehead mistakes on the floor.   I’m sure he’ll get another shot and hopefully he’s working hard and it’ll payoff! but…
      the game is so physical these days he has a rough time if the matchup isn’t just right contributing in other ways no??      As bad as the effort was tonight he should get a shot soon enough!

  • Feb 29, 20121:21 am
    by frankie d


    felton started the season offf like an all star.  he played extremely well for the first ten games or so.  also, felton lost all of that weight.  he lost the weight, and then his game fell apart.  anyway, he’s always been a porker, so the idea that his weight somehow did him in does not hold water.  i’ve never liked him as a player. but he played very well right out of the box this season.  so obviously the weight made very little, if any, difference. 
    in his mind, which is my point, he believes that the coach’s lack of confidence has been fatal.
    this is what felton said:
    <!– @page { margin: 0.79in } PRE.cjk { font-family: “Droid Sans Fallback”, monospace } P { margin-bottom: 0.08in } –>
    But for the Portland Trail Blazers’ point guard Raymond Felton, he says he’s reached a point he’s never been at as a professional athlete and playing for someone who doesn’t have confidence in him, is very frustrating.
    “I know I’m struggling, but it’s hard to perform the way you know how when you know they don’t have confidence in you,” Felton told CSNNW.com. “Never in my days playing basketball, have I felt like a coach wasn’t confident in my abilities. It’s hard to play knowing that.
    “Coming in and out of games is throwing my rhythm off, but it’s something that I’ll get through.”


    what matters is not what is objectively true – whether you could ever discern that – but what the player believes.  and felton obviously believes that he does not have the coach’s confidence and it is killing his play.

    • Feb 29, 201210:26 am
      by tarsier


      Or he knows his play is bad so he uses that as an excuse. If his play were good, odds are he’d have his coach’s confidence. And a couple good games is not enough to build said confidence in most coaches’ eyes just as a couple bad games aren’t enough to lose it.

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