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Lawrence Frank would like everyone to shutup about lottery balls

Justin Rogers of MLive:

“Our job is to give 100 percent, best effort, otherwise we’re stealing money,” Frank said in an interview with 97.1 The Ticket. “As I understand, from a theoretical standpoint, it’s a great draft coming up, so let’s get a lot of ping balls. But as a player or coach, if we think that way, they should fire us. You can’t do it. One, we make a lot of money to go out and do our jobs. Also, for the people that support our team, that would be one heck of an indictment to know that your team wasn’t giving its best effort because they were playing for next year.”

The Pistons need young assets, there’s no denying that. It’s also fun to fantasize about Anthony Davis playing next to Greg Monroe. But Frank is right — not playing competitively, not trying to win every game does far more damage to the overall culture of an organization than any advantage improving your draft lottery odds a percentage point or two will bring.

47 Comments

  • Feb 20, 20122:34 pm
    by Jay Gokhale

    Reply

    Guys, I don’t know about you, but something about Frank tells me that the pistons will be back to those contending days VERY soon. He knows what he’s doing, he’s getting more and more out of his players, and all he wants to do is win. His coaching is sinking in and gives the fans and, more importantly the players, hope.

  • Feb 20, 20122:44 pm
    by Nick

    Reply

    At our draft position, maybe at 7th or 8th. We can still draft a player like Meyers Leonard or John Henson who I think will help the pistons. And I think both players will be great fit next to Monroe as they are both long, athletic help-defenders

  • Feb 20, 20122:54 pm
    by Nick II

    Reply

    Nick you make a good point.To be honest I think Henson game is more nba ready than Davis or Drummond.

  • Feb 20, 20123:16 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    totally disgree.
    is the team better off because the team played tmac last year and won a few more games?
    and if so, why hasn’t that improvement been manifested this year, so far?

    • Feb 20, 20123:32 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Generously, McGrady playing maybe, maybe gave them three extra wins. What did that do to their lottery position? Maybe a percentage point or two that it was affected? It seriously has such minimal impact. Whether McGrady played or not, they weren’t going to be among those bottom four teams. It barely matters. I mean, Cleveland won the lottery with the Clippers’ pick last year. The Clippers had a better record than the Pistons last season. If your team is clearly the worst in the league, then yes, lose away and get that No. 1 pick. The Pistons clearly aren’t the worst in the league, they’re in that next tier beyond Charlotte and NOLA with the Raptors and a few others. They’re going to pick in a good spot in the draft. Frank is absolutely, 100 percent right to play for wins right now. Playing for wins doesn’t mean you are going to get them. But why shouldn’t Vernon Macklin, for example, have to beat out Ben Wallace and Jason Maxiell for minutes? Wallace and Maxiell and busting their asses right now and playing semi-effectively. I would much rather have young players required to beat guys out to get their minutes than just throwing a player like Macklin out there because he’s young and they have nothing else going. Either he’ll suck too much to beat them out (like Daye, for example), or he’ll work really hard, prove that he’s deserving, and eventually supplant one or the other in the rotation.

      The culture is important, and if an extra win or two decreases your potential for getting the top pick a percentage point or two, it’s no big loss. The chances of getting that pick are not great even for the very worst team in the league. It’s so so unbelievably stupid to play to lose in order to improve draft position.

      • Feb 20, 20124:13 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        the possibility of better draft position is only one aspect.
        the other factor is in the use of roster spaces, for instance.
        if the team doesn’t sign and keep tmac, they have room and need for a point guard.
        at the time they were looking at signing tmac, i was openly advocating that the team look at and sign free agent point guards, like, specifically,  jeremy lin and ish smith.  signing tmac and keeping him and playing him not only hurts possible draft position, but it occupies a roster spot that could better be used to look at young, untested players.  like jeremy lin.
        this quote from frank in the same article is hilarious and indicative of the lack of integrity on this issue:
        “No, we have depth at the point guard position, so he was never really in our wheelhouse,” Frank said.”

        well if you had so much depth why the heck did you sign russell out of the d-league?  that fact alone proves that you obviously did not have enough depth and should have been looking at all kinds of options.  and hopefully options other than 29 year old rookies. 
        i don’t buy this whole “young guys have to beat the vet out of a spot” business, because i’ve seen too many instances where that simply didn’t matter.
        did stuckey beat chauncey out of the PG spot when they traded chauncey?
        was AI beating afflalo out in practice when AI came to the team?
        was sheed beating amir out in practice back when sheed and amir were together?
        do you really think that bynum is not schooling knight everyday in practice?  i’d bet that he makes him look pretty silly, lots of times.  knight is talented, but i’d bet that bynum is showing him lots of chicago playground stuff that he’s just starting to see.
        obviously, any competent vet is going to have skills that a younger player doesn’t have.
        that is why they are a vet.  
        i’ve hired people for positions and invariably, the person with experience is going to look like a better hire, especially initially.  i’m going to be able to put that “vet” out there and basically not worry about that person.  
        the person with less experience, i’m probably going to have to monitor, babysit and help along.  that it how it goes in any profession, the nba being no exception.  now, the less experienced hire might ultimately be a better hire, but initially, there are going to be issues presented that a more experienced hire does not present.
        but, in any profession, you have to decide what you are doing.  is this a short term or longer term investment?
        the “culture” of a work environment can be turned around on a dime.  by hiring or firing the appropriate person you can send the message that needs to be heard.  you can change the culture in one meeting.  similarly, by playing or not playing the right players you can send or not send the right message and change the culture.  i think worrying about the team’s “culture” is bogus.  
        the knicks’ culture is totally different now than it was before lin came aboard.  that team’s culture now, has nothing to do with what happened last year, either pre or post melo trade.  
        a coach is worrying about his win/loss percentage and he essentially doesn’t care about whether younger players get better or not.  that is the only aspect of a team’s “culture” most coaches worry about.  that is, absent, a directive from above that dictates that a coach has to develop the young guys.
        ben can impact a team’s culture in many ways and i’d bet that he’d still have a very positive impact if he only got on the floor 5 minutes a game.
        i simply see this as more of the same.
        playing wallace and wilkins, in order to get a few more wins, is the equivalent of a surrender.
        i love wallace and enjoy watching him play.  but the team would be much better off giving macklin a few minutes on a regular basis in order to see what he can do.  and meaningful minutes, not garbage time.
        i’m constantly amazed that fans have such a blind spot about this issue, considering the teams’ horrid record in this regard, going all the way back to darko.
        at the end of the year, i will wager that fans and media will be asking just what kind of players both daye and macklin can be.   the time to find out for certain – and not based on conjecture and guesswork, but on-court play – is now.   a few losses be damned.  failing to do so now is a failure as an organization.

        • Feb 20, 20127:48 pm
          by frankie d

          Reply

          you are so freakin dumb you don’t realize that you’ve insulted – and defined – yourself so well, i don’t even have to stoop to insulting you.
          at least i know that if i ever had a dumb-a@@ doppleganger, he would be you!   yep, if i ever lost complete control of my facilities and actually became a dummy, that person would be you!
          yep, a dumb-a@@ version of frankie d, right there, already.
          least i know what kind of horror that would be…all i need do is read your posts!!! 
          it’s obvious that you don’t know how to read.  i never said anything about predicting what jeremy lin would do.  i’ve never said that.
          what i have said is this…
          the pistons have needed a point guard since chauncey left.
          last year, jeremy lin blew up in the summer league when he was playing for dallas.  i watched most of those summer league games.  because he was a free agent and the pistons needed a point guard, i specifically posted here and elsewhere – and there are posters who know this to be true cause they posted in the same forums – that the pistons should sign him and let him compete.  not a huge deal, and i wasn’t the only person who thought this, but imho, it was obvious that the dude could play.  and the pistons needed a point guard.
          what i’ve posted repeatedly is that the pistons should be signing and bringing in young point guards and letting them compete, rather than signing retreads like tmac, who do nothing for the team’s long term prospects.
          so, no, i didn’t “predict” the jeremy lin saga, but i certainly did advocate here and elsewhere that the pistons bring him in and give him a shot.
          imho, it was always obvious that he could play.  like lots of young guys, he just needed a legitimate shot.

        • Feb 20, 20128:13 pm
          by Jayg108

          Reply

          Just one question… You mentioned something about AI and practice? Were you talkin bout…..

      • Feb 20, 20124:31 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        by the way, i would never advocate playing to lose.
        what i do advocate is giving priority to playing young players on your roster.
        that means letting them play.  if they go through a tough stretch for 3 or 4 games, keep playing them.  if they go through a tough stretch for 9 or 10 games, keep playing them.  let them know that you have confidence in them and that they are there for the long haul.  and if you win, great, but if you lose, no big deal. and at the end of such a year, take inventory on your players and decide which ones you want to keep and discard.
        again, based on performance – or nonperformance – not based on what you think they can or cannot do. 
        wins and losses are secondary to the development of players.  pretty simple.
        now coaches obviously don’t like it, because it affects their records.  as an organization, i make it clear what the priority is.

      • Feb 20, 20129:44 pm
        by Coach_Ackley

        Reply

        Patrick I agree 100% with you…. Besides I think I much rather have McGee anyway he more proven than any big in this draft…..

  • Feb 20, 20123:28 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
    the pistons have been doing the same thing for the last few years and we see the results.  the only difference is that frank is doing it, instead of curry and kuester.
    one of the reasons the team is still struggling on daye why amir and AA are playing elsewhere is exactly that philosophy.
    when are fans going to wise up?

    • Feb 20, 20123:37 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I don’t know how anyone can watch and listen to Frank, watch and listen to the players who play for him, and think “that’s the same as Kuester and Curry.” There’s no comparison. Doesn’t mean Frank is a miracle worker or necessarily even the guy who will turn this team around, but he’s light years better than what they’ve had.

      • Feb 20, 20124:26 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        no, i said he is doing the same things, not that he is the same caliber coach.
        his record is what it is.  he’s been a sub-500 head coach.
        imho, he’s certainly an improvement over kuester as a head coach.  
        he’s probably better than curry, though we don’t know as curry only got one year in a ridiculously chaotic situation.
        my initial impression of frank is that he’s a career assistant.
        very bright guy, but with a lack of feel for players and game situations.
        short term, you may be able to muddle through to a middling amount of success.   .500 or so.   long term you’re tracked for failure, cause you lose your players’ ear pretty quickly.
        he learned under bobby knight, initially, and it seems those lessons have been deeply ingrained.  the only guy who coaches like him, and has his background,  now is stan van gundy, and while i like van gundy, he’s not had lots of success either.  especially considering that he’s had the league’s dominant big man.   even doug collins has mellowed, and doug always commanded a lot of respect because he could play.
        frank doesn’t have that kind of credibility to fall back on.
        i love bobby knight as a coach, but he’s not nba head coaching material.
        i look at frank the same way.
        hope i’m wrong, but that is what his record says and that is what i’ve seen so far.

        • Feb 21, 20129:39 am
          by curriergroh

          Reply

          Did you watch the Boston game?
          If you did then you know that something different is starting to happen.
          It was the first time in a long time that PIS-TONS BAS-KET-BALL felt the way it used to.
          I’ll take that over draft position all day, and I give a lot of the credit to Frank.

          • Feb 21, 201212:56 pm
            by frankie d

            yea, i watched the boston game.
            and except for one or two games where i had trouble with my feed, i’ve watched every game this year. both those games i listened to, on nba radio.
            obviously, you don’t know how the nba works.
            and what works in the nba is getting as bad as you can and getting one of the top draft choices so that you can get a franchise player.
            in fact, the draft lottery is a specific response to the fact that teams were doing it so obviously that the league’s integrity was starting to suffer.
            now, it still goes on – see san antonio and tim duncan, cleveland and lebron – but the lottery makes it much more difficult to pull off.
            great to know that you’ll take meaningless wins over getting a franchise player. for better or worse, most nba teams don’t follow that warped illogic.

  • Feb 20, 20123:34 pm
    by neutes

    Reply

    I don’t expect the actual team to ‘tank’. It’s on Dumars that he’s assembled a purgatory-esque team.

  • Feb 20, 20123:39 pm
    by Jodi Jezz

    Reply

    Lol, good statement by coach Frank…I think it’s funny when you hear a fan say they want us to lose so we can get a top 3 pick…All college players are prospects and any college player from pick 1 to pick 60 can become a bust in the league…

  • Feb 20, 20124:56 pm
    by yabbadetroit16

    Reply

    yeah, agree with jodi jezz. anyone draft can be an absolute bust, and playing for next year is the sure sign of a losing. team. I like the way Lawrence Frank is guiding this detroit team, and they will be a pretty good contending team in the later years to come.

  • Feb 20, 20124:59 pm
    by Chris Woj

    Reply

    I would never expect the team, nor L. Frank, to tank and lose games on purpose. However -as a fan- I wouldn’t mind seeing them lose a few more of the close ones. What you’re doing is applying hindsight to the lottery situation. Did the Clippers win the lottery last year with a better record than Detroit? Yes. Does the worst team always get the better pick? No. But the fact is that in a pure numbers game you can’t apply the past results to the future like that. Here is how the lottery ball numbers go, from worst team to best…

    250-199-156-119-76-75-43(DET)-28(LAC)-17-11-8-7-6-5

    A lot of people are espousing the idea that they should be making a run at the last playoff spot, saying that with us holding the tiebreaker over Boston it is a great idea. But the difference between a spot as the 9th or 10th team in the East vs being one of the worst records in the league is a massive number of lottery balls, not just a “few percentage points.”

    As for the people saying “We can still get Leonard or Henson” – Really? Henson? I really don’t want Henson, he’s obviously a very limited player. The big thing that some of the guys at the top of this year’s lottery have over previous years is the fact that they’re described as great motor guys, hard workers. That is one reason that the 2012 draft is being looked upon so favorably – a bust can happen at any time but when a player is going to put in work it is far less likely. And this year’s top lottery guys, in addition to being major talents with major NBA ready size are also hard workers.

    Look I’m not espousing the idea that the Pistons not stop working. I like seeing the confidence they get from winning – but if sacrificing a few wins means a return to respectability? We need to go for it. In December of 2009 I said the same thing when the Tigers traded away Curtis Granderson – they were sacrificing 2010 (if not quite punting it) because the talent they were getting would allow them to compete from 2011-2015 (thanks to bullpen and rotation depth). And I had no problem with that.

    I’ll say the same thing now – if fewer wins in the shortened 2012 means we’re competing for a top 4 seed in the conference from 2013-2017? I’ll take it.

  • Feb 20, 20125:19 pm
    by D_S_V

    Reply

    There really is never a “decision” to lose a game. But I just don’t see a scenario where Prince, Maxiell, Wilkins, etc. are playing a prominent role on the next Pistons team to actually compete. We’ve had a nice run with encouraging play from Stuckey and some of the other young guys, but our team is in need of more talent that won’t come through free agency or trade. Better players tend to be picked at the high end of the draft – which as simple as this sounds, is not something that a lot of folks here understand. So sure, we can get excited about beating the scum of the league, play ourselves out of position for a good draft pick, and hey, maybe even make the 8th seed and go out in the first round. This has been a throw away year from the start, in a shortened season to boot, so I’d much prefer this season to really really suck, while also finding out what players we have on our team that we want moving forward, and add another real prospect to our talent pool. The Pistons are FAR from competitive in the overall sense.

  • Feb 20, 20125:30 pm
    by Tiko

    Reply

    the 5-6 worst record range always seems to jump into the top 3 come lottery night. If with a week to go in the season we’re near that range I’d hope Frank would “experiment” with different lineups. That or I hope Stern realizes how much the NBA banks when the Pstons are good and gifts us a top 3 pick regardless of odds

  • Feb 20, 20126:37 pm
    by Anthony

    Reply

    I’m now willing to give up our first round pick for McGee!

    • Feb 20, 20127:11 pm
      by rick77

      Reply

      Why? He is a restricted freee agent whom Washington has not extended an offer to. I think it is funny to assume that the draft will be the end all be all. We just watched a team built up of cast off players and all Im hearing about is how we need a star player from the draft. No what we need is what wehave right now witha few additions. This team is probably better (young wise)than the team that Joe put together that went 32-50, but he used the guys as trade  pieces in trades to acquire better talent. That talent got him a Title and I feel with what he has right now he may have a great opportunity to go out and suprise people this summer. He could go out and probably grab someone like a Wilson Chandler along with JaVale McGhee. We will need someone to replace Ben next year(McGhee) and I think Chandler could eventually supplant Prince. These are just a few moves that could us back to being respected, and then Joe can build on whatever falls into his lap during at draft time. Losing just does not look good and we as arm chair GM’s need to understand that a quick fix is not always applicable. I mean look at it like this we could be number seven and slip into four or five and probably still get Drummond, if he were to declare. I am not mad about that scenario at all. I do see the team picking up momentum and winning more games in the second half than in the first simply because they are healthy and they are developing” chemistry”

      • Feb 20, 20127:29 pm
        by D_S_V

        Reply

        Detroit isn’t a free agent destination, unless we have a contending team (WE DON’T)
        Joe D hasn’t made a good trade in…
        Joe D has handed out the most money on our team to the players not earning it
        Our only trade assets are Monroe, Stuckey, Knight, and perhaps JJ, and you’re going to have to do a lot to convince me about Prince
        None of our assets are enough to obtain anyone of significance
        We are handicapped in the salary cap which makes us even less flexible in the trade market
        We could really use a high draft pick. High draft picks tend to go to teams with more lottery balls
        Our recent success has been against the scum of the league. Nice, but don’t expect us to leap into a contending tier with our current squad.
        Basically, we’re lacking in assets

        • Feb 20, 20127:37 pm
          by frankie d

          Reply

          i’d trade maxiell ASAP.  
          he’s in shape, he’s starting, he’s playing well and he could help a contender.
          his trade value is probably never going to be higher.  you could probably get a lottery protected first rounder for him right now.
          i’d do it, even though it would blow a hole in the line up.
          he’s unlikely to continue to play this well, for too much longer and i’d get what i could for him. and, when the team is ready to contend – 3-4 years down the line – he’ll be over the hill because his game depends on the kind of explosiveness that will probably leave him on the north side of 30.
          trade max now!!!

          • Feb 21, 20129:22 am
            by Steve K

            Excellent call.

            Max’s value will never be higher.
            If Joe’s smart, he’s working the phones. With a Maxiell trade (for a pick), the Pistons clear $5M off next year’s cap. With the amnesty of CV, that’s $13M total. They’d only have $28M in committed salaries next season.

            I know cap space doesn’t breed success, but it certainly offers more flexibility for a rebuilding team.

      • Feb 20, 20127:54 pm
        by Anthony

        Reply

        Well i dont think the pistons are the team they were in the first 2/3 of the season and they’re going to continue to get better throughout the season not to mention that the all-star breaks coming up and we’ll have time to practice. We saw what 3 days off could do for us already. With that said were going to continue to rise in the standings and could slip out of one of those top 10 picks so like the stock market you need to trade while the stocks still good! McGee is an athletic guy that would work well playing next to monroe and i dont  like the chances of finding that guy in the later picks in the lottery. I dont think Drummond will fall like Cousins did and fall any lower than the 3 spot because he could be#1 if he had the mentallity of Davis and the two guys that could challenge him for that second spot is Gilchrist or Barnes but i dont see both leap frogging him. I’d trade Maklin and our first pick to the wizzards for McGee in a heart beat if they came knocking. Why wait till the end of the season to let other teams offer them anything better and let him slip out of out hands?  

        • Feb 20, 20128:13 pm
          by Chris Woj

          Reply

          Really? McGee? A widely acknowledged bonehead? We need someone that complements Greg Monroe, not his complete antithesis. Javale McGee is one of the last players I’d want to see in a Pistons uniform.

          • Feb 20, 20128:27 pm
            by Anthony

            Let me guess, you were the same guy that said that bringing Rasheed Wallace to detroit would be a bad move by the Pistons??? If you dont think McGee would be a good addition who do you think would? The only other guy that appeals to me, and is also in the trade roumors would be Gasoul but hes way to expensive. Some people are saying that we’ll be a contender in 3-4 years but I dont buy it. I think we can contend now if we made this trade. Maybe not for the championship but atleast a final play-off spot which increases our “atractivness” to other players as a team on the rise thats just missing a piece or two?

          • Feb 20, 20128:50 pm
            by frankie d

            yes mcgee is a bonehead. 
            but he is a very talented bonehead.  he also appears to be open to good coaching.  while your concerns about boneheadedness are legit, imho, his talent trumps those concerns.  i wouldn’t break the house for him, but if i could get him for a reasonable number or trade, even, i would get him.
            he’s worth the risk.
            also, sheed was never considered a bonehead.  lacking a certain emotional control, yes, but bonehead, no.  he was always thought to be one of the smartest players out there.  
            there were also legit questions about sheed, but they had nothing to do with his BB IQ.

          • Feb 20, 20129:19 pm
            by Chris Woj

            Thank you to Frankie D for making my response before I even got here. Rasheed Wallace was never a boneheaded player on the court, he was always a smart player – and an intelligent defensive player. McGee on the other hand makes far more mistakes than anything. He may be OPEN and RECEPTIVE to good coaching, but on the other hand he also appears completely incapable of putting coaching to good use.

            I don’t think that his talent trumps those concerns at all. He makes 3 all star plays per night, and counters them with 3 d league plays per night – and on top of that isn’t much of a defender. He blocks almost 3 per night, but gives up 5 more easy baskets because he’s leaving his man way too early on the help defense trying for a block from the weak side.

            I agree with the sentiment if we can get him for a reasonable number or trade… like maybe a 2nd round draft pick or a bottom of the 1st round draft pick? Okay. But there is no way I trade a top 7 pick in this year’s loaded draft for him. You fall out of that top 7? Then we talk. But personally I don’t see how that is a good thing for this team. McGee being brought in would have to mean on the cheap and with it clear to him that he’s coming off of the bench when we pick up a legit big.

            Anyone that thinks we’re “thisclose” to contending and being an attractive team for free agents needs to step back and take a look at the Eastern Conference. Look at teams like Charlotte. Being a 7/8 seed in the East is NOT generally looked upon favorably. And no, Detroit is NOT much better as a “destination” than Charlotte for free agents. I’ve lived in both towns, trust me on this one.

          • Feb 20, 20129:23 pm
            by Anthony

            Yeah that he ran his mouth and was always getting in foul trouble. But there were still criticks out there saying it wasnt a good move for detroit to sign him. I never said he was a bonehead i just said that since he had something wrong with his behavior people didnt want him simular to McGee… I just think hes worh the risk!

    • Feb 20, 20127:50 pm
      by Jodi Jezz

      Reply

      @Anthony: I’ve been saying the same thing for a while…Hopefully Dumars is thinking like me and you…

      • Feb 20, 201210:08 pm
        by Coach_Ackley

        Reply

        Chris Woj – You say “He may be OPEN and RECEPTIVE to good coaching, but on the other hand he also appears completely incapable of putting coaching to good use.” So your saying Flip and the coach before him are good coaches… Dude you must not watch basketball Flip is a horrible coach and further more flip can’t coach a defensive player he’s an offesive coach like Que was and to say ” I don’t think that his talent trumps those concerns at all” actually his talent does he’s young and if you pair him with Frank who holds his players accoutable he WILL grow out of the boneheaed stuuf he does.. So is he worth the risk HELL YA HE IS….

  • Feb 20, 20129:15 pm
    by Nick II

    Reply

    I also agree with trying to get McGee to play for the pistons. In my opinion if we traded for Mcgee I think we can make the playoffs this year. With the way Monroe and Knight can pass the ball Mcgee will get easy baskets all day.

  • Feb 20, 20129:21 pm
    by Max

    Reply

    If we are going to start talking about trading the pick midseason, then why not aim a bit higher?  Dumars should look for McGee if he strikes out with:
    The Jazz
    There is still some time between now and the deadline and if Utah falls a few games under 500, maybe they listen to offers for Jefferson.  I’d trade the pick and any combination of contracts and prospects not named Monroe or Knight.  Who knows?–they may even take Gordon since they don’t have much scoring on the wings and Jefferson makes so much.
    The Suns
    Gortat is playing very well but who knows how sold the Suns are on him.  They may well consider themselves out of the playoffs by the deadline and could be looking to tear it all down this summer.  Chances are they like Gortat but if you throw the pick and some prospects they might bite.
    The Hawks
    It’s a long shot but since Horford is out, the team has to know their playoff chances are greatly diminished and that if Johnson doesn’t fall back, they should be better next year.  The question then becomes whether they are really committed to Josh Smith.  If not, the Pistons should offer the pick and any player not named Monroe and Knight.
    The Thunder
    Ibaka and Perkins start next to each but the Thunder often finish with one of them on the bench,  I can’t imagine them trading Ibaka, but they could be having buyers remorse regarding Perkins and he’d go great with Monroe.  The Thunder know they need more scorers and that they will never be bad enough to be in the lottery again so Dumars should at least make the call.
    The Nets
    If the Nets lose out on Howard, they will be left with Lopez who everyone knows has been offered to the Magic all year and the question will be if the marriage can still endure.  He’s not a perfect fit next to Monroe but they’d be very tough to guard at the least and he can block shots.
    I’d much prefer any of these trades to McGee.

    • Feb 20, 201210:06 pm
      by Chris Woj

      Reply

      Aside from Lopez/Perkins – I like where you’re going. If we’re going to deal this pick do the due diligence and get the best deal possible. There are far better options than Javale McGee out there.

      • Feb 20, 201210:14 pm
        by Coach_Ackley

        Reply

        Chris Woj – You say “He may be OPEN and RECEPTIVE to good coaching, but on the other hand he also appears completely incapable of putting coaching to good use.” So your saying Flip and the coach before him are good coaches… Dude you must not watch basketball Flip is a horrible coach and further more flip can’t coach a defensive player he’s an offesive coach like Que was and to say ” I don’t think that his talent trumps those concerns at all” actually his talent does he’s young and if you pair him with Frank who holds his players accoutable he WILL grow out of the boneheaed stuuf he does.. So is he worth the risk HELL YA HE IS….

        • Feb 20, 201211:18 pm
          by Chris Woj

          Reply

          No, I’m not talking about the guys he worked with in the NBA. I’m talking about the guy he grew up with, Gary London, who is a three time Illinois coach of the year and a great defensive coach as well as a talent developer. Mark Fox’s single-minded and hard nosed “play the right way” style of coaching. Oh oh how about working two straight summers with Coach K and team USA, a squad that has CLEARLY been coached brilliantly?

          I’m sorry, but blaming his lack of development on poor coaching just does not match up. Are you telling me that Coach K doesn’t hold his players accountable? Some players don’t grow out of being boneheads and Javale McGee appears to be one of those.

          • Feb 21, 20123:16 pm
            by Coach_Ackley

            And futher more Team USA played well cuz the SUPERSTARS they had on it and coach K not the other ppl you mentioned k. Coach K is one of the best coaches around that coaches defense…

          • Feb 21, 20124:17 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            Mr. Ackley:

            Had to remove a comment of yours. Feel free to argue vigorously, but refrain from making personal attacks on other posters, please.

  • Feb 20, 201211:04 pm
    by rick77

    Reply

     I said earlier that McGhee is restricted and Washington does not seem interested in offering him a contract so far then why not offer him one and see where it goes. Maybe it turns into something bigger later, but in no way would I trade picks with Phoenix for Gortat or Lopez, who has reached his crescendo. Wilson Chandler and McGhee are both from the area and may be interested in joining these new look Pistons with a new owner. I never said anything about Detroit being a free agent destination, but when you have played in Denver and New York, Detroit may not seem so bad right now(Chandler).

    As for the Jeremy Lin argument give it a rest. Our offense is not like New Yorks, so he probably would not be allowed to be as free wheeling here as he is in New York. The guy is playing lights out but he is not what we need right now. We need a athletic big and a complimentary small forward. I like Jefferson but will he teach Monroe to be a better defender? I am not saying McGhee will teach him to better but with practicing against him he will become better agaisnt players of his caliber.

  • Feb 21, 20124:43 am
    by Lottery

    Reply

    So nice……….

  • Feb 21, 20126:33 am
    by Melvin

    Reply

    Only 5 gamebacks of 7th and 8th seed

  • Feb 21, 201211:29 am
    by ryan

    Reply

    I don’t know how this discussion got hijacked into pointless talk about Javale McGee but I’m completely ignoring all of that mess. 

    I think that Lawrence Frank is working out well and helping this team rebuild an identity that 1) fans can live with and 2) will allow the team to compete in the NBA. I’m glad we finally have a real coach here and I know it’s already helping us attract free agents (Greg Monroe and Brandon Knight won’t be on rookie contracts forever).

    As for the focus on lottery balls I don’t really agree with him. Maybe I should say I agree but I see a much bigger picture meaning he’s right that not competing is pathetic and would lead to bad things but given all of that we really, really, really, really need help in this up coming draft. We need not one but two high picks and every lose helps in that regard.

    So I would love to see some of the guys who have no future with us traded for pennies on the dollar if that’ll bring back picks. Dumping guys like Ben Gordon, Charlie Villanueva, Austin Daye also clears their spot on the roster and forces the coach to play the guys with a future. So in order to help his coach and team in the future Joe Dumars should be working to make life difficult for them right now.

    But whatever we do please no McGee.

  • Feb 21, 20124:19 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    BTW, I removed the comment you are responding to. Sorry I didn’t notice it and get it taken down sooner.

    And, for the group as a whole, there is a lot of freedom for passionate back and forth here, and honestly we get a ton of great comments/discussion down here. But as a general rule, the only thing that will get a comment of yours removed is a personal attack/name calling directed at someone else. Attack the argument, not the arguer.

  • Feb 21, 201210:45 pm
    by Haan

    Reply

    Frank’s right for himself and the players, but fans should still hope for a bad record along with development of young players.  It’s Joe who should be designing the team for the longterm, which includes losing in the present.  Still can’t get over him reportedly turning down a first rounder for Prince.   Resigning Prince for 4 years???  Allowing Ben Wallace to block Macklin?  Beyond Joe, Gores should have approved of amnesting Gordon (or maybe Villanuena).  The roster can be directed towards the future without undercutting the efforts of the coach and players to win now once that roster is determined.  So Frank’s right, but he’s also wrong.

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