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	<title>Comments on: 3-on-3: Judging Joe Dumars</title>
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		<title>By: Dan Feldman</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/02/3-on-3-judging-joe-dumars/comment-page-1/#comment-50885</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Feldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 07:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/02/3-on-3-judging-joe-dumars/#comment-50885</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;1. Amaechi was a free agent, as was Wallace. It was either the Pistons or Amaechi&#039;s call not to go to Detroit. It wasn&#039;t Orlando&#039;s decision.

2. Interesting point about a balanced team being easier to rebuild. That&#039;s also a credit to Dumars, though, right? He definitely messed up the rebuilding aspect, but if he can build the team up again, I see no reason he&#039;s likely (or unlikely) to repeat the rebuilding mistakes. But if his plan lends itself to rebuilding on the fly, he&#039;d have a leg up on other GMs.

3. The Cavs offered Villanueva nearly as much as the Pistons did. Gordon was ranked as the No. 2 free agent by &lt;a href=&quot;http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/steve_aschburner/06/30/free.agents/index.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sports Illustrated&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=jy-freeagentrankings063009&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Yahoo&lt;/a&gt;. The year before, the Bulls offered him about $50 million, and that was before his series against the Celtics. Some people liked the signing. Some didn&#039;t. But enough did that I&#039;m convinced Gordon wasn&#039;t instantly viewed as overpaid.

As far as Hamilton for Boozer, I believe it. I get why you don&#039;t. If Drew Sharp&#039;s column was the only place I&#039;d heard it, I wouldn&#039;t either. I&#039;m certainly not 100 percent, but between believing it and not, I believe it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. Amaechi was a free agent, as was Wallace. It was either the Pistons or Amaechi&#8217;s call not to go to Detroit. It wasn&#8217;t Orlando&#8217;s decision.</p>
<p>2. Interesting point about a balanced team being easier to rebuild. That&#8217;s also a credit to Dumars, though, right? He definitely messed up the rebuilding aspect, but if he can build the team up again, I see no reason he&#8217;s likely (or unlikely) to repeat the rebuilding mistakes. But if his plan lends itself to rebuilding on the fly, he&#8217;d have a leg up on other GMs.</p>
<p>3. The Cavs offered Villanueva nearly as much as the Pistons did. Gordon was ranked as the No. 2 free agent by <a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/steve_aschburner/06/30/free.agents/index.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Sports Illustrated</a> and <a href="http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=jy-freeagentrankings063009" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Yahoo</a>. The year before, the Bulls offered him about $50 million, and that was before his series against the Celtics. Some people liked the signing. Some didn&#8217;t. But enough did that I&#8217;m convinced Gordon wasn&#8217;t instantly viewed as overpaid.</p>
<p>As far as Hamilton for Boozer, I believe it. I get why you don&#8217;t. If Drew Sharp&#8217;s column was the only place I&#8217;d heard it, I wouldn&#8217;t either. I&#8217;m certainly not 100 percent, but between believing it and not, I believe it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Feldman</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/02/3-on-3-judging-joe-dumars/comment-page-1/#comment-50883</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Feldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 07:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/02/3-on-3-judging-joe-dumars/#comment-50883</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ben Wallace was a free agent who had planned to sign with the Pistons, anyway. The sign-and-trade just helped both teams work out the numbers.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben Wallace was a free agent who had planned to sign with the Pistons, anyway. The sign-and-trade just helped both teams work out the numbers.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/02/3-on-3-judging-joe-dumars/comment-page-1/#comment-50280</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/02/3-on-3-judging-joe-dumars/#comment-50280</guid>
		<description>werd, fuck spellcheck</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>werd, fuck spellcheck</p>
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		<title>By: MadPoopz</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/02/3-on-3-judging-joe-dumars/comment-page-1/#comment-50159</link>
		<dc:creator>MadPoopz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/02/3-on-3-judging-joe-dumars/#comment-50159</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if the Billups trade was as bad as the Rip resigning.  Trading Billups for AI is questionable, but resigning Rip was just a God awful idea.  Rips presence created a logjam position wise and may have been a factor is our dismissing of Spellcheck, especially since Dumars showed favoritism to Stuckey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if the Billups trade was as bad as the Rip resigning.  Trading Billups for AI is questionable, but resigning Rip was just a God awful idea.  Rips presence created a logjam position wise and may have been a factor is our dismissing of Spellcheck, especially since Dumars showed favoritism to Stuckey.</p>
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		<title>By: Murph</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/02/3-on-3-judging-joe-dumars/comment-page-1/#comment-50089</link>
		<dc:creator>Murph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:00:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/02/3-on-3-judging-joe-dumars/#comment-50089</guid>
		<description>At his point, if our draft position drops to the point where we miss out on all the above that you mentioned, we should go after UNC&#039;s, John Henson.  Henson strikes me as a lesser version of Anthony Davis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At his point, if our draft position drops to the point where we miss out on all the above that you mentioned, we should go after UNC&#8217;s, John Henson.  Henson strikes me as a lesser version of Anthony Davis.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/02/3-on-3-judging-joe-dumars/comment-page-1/#comment-50084</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 16:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/02/3-on-3-judging-joe-dumars/#comment-50084</guid>
		<description>If we didn&#039;t trade Delfino, we wouldn&#039;t have Jonas right now.  So I believe that was the right move.  We could&#039;ve grabbed Ty Lawson, Dejaun Blair, Jonas, kept Amir and Affalo, kept Chauncey for the veteran leadership instead of bringing in the biggest club house terror ever, A.I.  I think that was where it all begin, well that and whiffing big time in the drafts.  Not even finding some quality bench role players.  But A.I. was the end of it all.  That is where Rip begin his troubled descent into darkness.  With the whole who is the starting SG thing.
Also if we keep those guys we loose out on Moose.  IDK, I love hindsight and all that.  Thinking of what might have been if Jo D was a little more competant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we didn&#8217;t trade Delfino, we wouldn&#8217;t have Jonas right now.  So I believe that was the right move.  We could&#8217;ve grabbed Ty Lawson, Dejaun Blair, Jonas, kept Amir and Affalo, kept Chauncey for the veteran leadership instead of bringing in the biggest club house terror ever, A.I.  I think that was where it all begin, well that and whiffing big time in the drafts.  Not even finding some quality bench role players.  But A.I. was the end of it all.  That is where Rip begin his troubled descent into darkness.  With the whole who is the starting SG thing.<br />
Also if we keep those guys we loose out on Moose.  IDK, I love hindsight and all that.  Thinking of what might have been if Jo D was a little more competant.</p>
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		<title>By: V.</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/02/3-on-3-judging-joe-dumars/comment-page-1/#comment-49935</link>
		<dc:creator>V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 04:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/02/3-on-3-judging-joe-dumars/#comment-49935</guid>
		<description>John Gabriel, who was voted Executive of the Year for the Hill signing, then got fired three years later, and spent several year outside of professional sports. He&#039;s currently director of scouting for NYK. 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Gabriel, who was voted Executive of the Year for the Hill signing, then got fired three years later, and spent several year outside of professional sports. He&#8217;s currently director of scouting for NYK. </p>
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		<title>By: Laser</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/02/3-on-3-judging-joe-dumars/comment-page-1/#comment-49877</link>
		<dc:creator>Laser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/02/3-on-3-judging-joe-dumars/#comment-49877</guid>
		<description>1. Plenty of it, but the assist goes to luck. Trading for Rip, drafting Tayshaun and signing Chauncey all paid off big, but the only reason Ben Wallace ever came here is because the Magic refused to give us John Ameche. Joe had to settle for Ben, because his hands were tied and he idn&#039;t want to lose Grant Hill for nothing. The Sheed trade was also a good move, but anybody who thinks we got Sheed for nothing fails to recognize how much better off this franchise would be with Josh Smith at the 4.

2. 100% of it. Every last one of those good moves was succeeded by a future bad one. Joe extended Rip into oblivion, ended up paying him to go away, and now he&#039;s stuck on our books for two seasons at a hefty price. Tayshaun is well on his way to the same fate. Joe chose to re-sign Sheed over Okur and eventually let Sheed walk for cap space... and we all know where that money went. And the less I say about Chauncey the better. So it&#039;s not like he&#039;s done a damn thing to roll over these assets he gets so much praise for.

One unsung benefit of having built a winner without a superstar is that nobody is untouchable. You don&#039;t have a Tim Duncan situation where he can&#039;t be converted into anything. His jersey needs to be hung from the rafters, and there&#039;s nothing you can do to get value for him. Joe created a great situation for continued success, but he squandered every last asset he had.

3. Not a chance in hell. If you want it done right, he&#039;s literally the last person who should be in charge. Not only has he been an unmitigated disaster and &lt;strong&gt;bar none&lt;/strong&gt; the worst GM in the league for over half a decade solid, but he&#039;s also too closely connected to all of the problems that got us where we are, since he&#039;s entirely responsible for all of them. There&#039;s no way to expedite the rebuilding process without eating a SHITLOAD of crow. There&#039;s so much dead weight on the books, it would require far more humility and accountability for Joe to address. Gores wrote him a blank check to make Rip go away,and it&#039;s no coincidence that this was the achievable change that left the least egg on Joe&#039;s face since Rip had already long been a scapegoat here. Never mind who created the situation that led to Rip&#039;s discontentment.

As usual, I&#039;m virtually in lock-step with MFMP, and I&#039;m questioning Feldman&#039;s analytical prowess. I mean, 0% of people ever thought Rip, Gordon or Villanueva could hae been easily moved on those contracts. Let alone for anything worth having. Those contracts never made sense. And you&#039;ve got to be utilizing some seriously defective thinking to use an unsubstantiated rumor about a nebulous dream of a farfetched, unrealistic trade of an aging, overpaid shooting guard owed long-term salary for a borderline all-star power forward on an expiring contract. It doesn&#039;t make a lick of sense, and if you&#039;re inclined to use it as any sort of argument that Joe hasn&#039;t been doing a disastrous job, you&#039;re not thinking clearly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. Plenty of it, but the assist goes to luck. Trading for Rip, drafting Tayshaun and signing Chauncey all paid off big, but the only reason Ben Wallace ever came here is because the Magic refused to give us John Ameche. Joe had to settle for Ben, because his hands were tied and he idn&#8217;t want to lose Grant Hill for nothing. The Sheed trade was also a good move, but anybody who thinks we got Sheed for nothing fails to recognize how much better off this franchise would be with Josh Smith at the 4.</p>
<p>2. 100% of it. Every last one of those good moves was succeeded by a future bad one. Joe extended Rip into oblivion, ended up paying him to go away, and now he&#8217;s stuck on our books for two seasons at a hefty price. Tayshaun is well on his way to the same fate. Joe chose to re-sign Sheed over Okur and eventually let Sheed walk for cap space&#8230; and we all know where that money went. And the less I say about Chauncey the better. So it&#8217;s not like he&#8217;s done a damn thing to roll over these assets he gets so much praise for.</p>
<p>One unsung benefit of having built a winner without a superstar is that nobody is untouchable. You don&#8217;t have a Tim Duncan situation where he can&#8217;t be converted into anything. His jersey needs to be hung from the rafters, and there&#8217;s nothing you can do to get value for him. Joe created a great situation for continued success, but he squandered every last asset he had.</p>
<p>3. Not a chance in hell. If you want it done right, he&#8217;s literally the last person who should be in charge. Not only has he been an unmitigated disaster and <strong>bar none</strong> the worst GM in the league for over half a decade solid, but he&#8217;s also too closely connected to all of the problems that got us where we are, since he&#8217;s entirely responsible for all of them. There&#8217;s no way to expedite the rebuilding process without eating a SHITLOAD of crow. There&#8217;s so much dead weight on the books, it would require far more humility and accountability for Joe to address. Gores wrote him a blank check to make Rip go away,and it&#8217;s no coincidence that this was the achievable change that left the least egg on Joe&#8217;s face since Rip had already long been a scapegoat here. Never mind who created the situation that led to Rip&#8217;s discontentment.</p>
<p>As usual, I&#8217;m virtually in lock-step with MFMP, and I&#8217;m questioning Feldman&#8217;s analytical prowess. I mean, 0% of people ever thought Rip, Gordon or Villanueva could hae been easily moved on those contracts. Let alone for anything worth having. Those contracts never made sense. And you&#8217;ve got to be utilizing some seriously defective thinking to use an unsubstantiated rumor about a nebulous dream of a farfetched, unrealistic trade of an aging, overpaid shooting guard owed long-term salary for a borderline all-star power forward on an expiring contract. It doesn&#8217;t make a lick of sense, and if you&#8217;re inclined to use it as any sort of argument that Joe hasn&#8217;t been doing a disastrous job, you&#8217;re not thinking clearly.</p>
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		<title>By: IsraeliPiston</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/02/3-on-3-judging-joe-dumars/comment-page-1/#comment-49869</link>
		<dc:creator>IsraeliPiston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>thanks - unfortunately I don&#039;t have time to read all blogs etc. Nice of you guys to share each other</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks &#8211; unfortunately I don&#8217;t have time to read all blogs etc. Nice of you guys to share each other</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Hayes</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/02/3-on-3-judging-joe-dumars/comment-page-1/#comment-49868</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Hayes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/02/3-on-3-judging-joe-dumars/#comment-49868</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;And, as commenter z correctly points out below, Billups didn&#039;t want to be traded anywhere. He wanted to finish his career in Detroit. I think Dumars made what he felt was the best deal he could at the time, he wasn&#039;t just trying to trade with Denver b/c he wanted to send Billups there out of loyalty.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And, as commenter z correctly points out below, Billups didn&#8217;t want to be traded anywhere. He wanted to finish his career in Detroit. I think Dumars made what he felt was the best deal he could at the time, he wasn&#8217;t just trying to trade with Denver b/c he wanted to send Billups there out of loyalty.</p>
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