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Reports of Tayshaun Prince’s demise were greatly exaggerated

It turns out, those two meaningless 3-pointers Tayshaun Prince hit late against the Warriors weren’t so insignificant after all.

Those two 3s gave him 20 points in that game. He scored 20 again, without needing the garbage-time buckets, against the Rockets. His 29 points in tonight’s loss at Minnesota marked the just the third time Prince has scored 20 points in three straight games in his career. The other times occurred in the 2008-09 season and the 2004-05 season. Thanks to Dan Feldman for that stat, and also this one:

In his last three games, Prince has scored 69 points, the fourth-highest three-game stretch of his career. He scored 73 points during a three-game span of the 2006-07 season – the last time he scored more in a three-game stretch. Prince last scored 69 points in a three-game span during the 2008-09 season, when he did it twice without overlap.

Prince’s health has to be the key factor to his resurgent production. He undeniably looks quicker, he’s looking to score in the paint more, he’s finishing stronger and he’s running the floor more. But he also looks like he’s finding a role in Lawrence Frank‘s offense. Last season, Prince had his normal numbers counting-stat wise. But he got there by having a high usage rate and dominating the ball — or, as the DBB guys refer to it, running the Isolayshaun offense. He’s scored points over this three game stretch using much more variety. He’s running the floor again, something he used to do with more regularity earlier in his career. He’s also moving without the basketball, an element that all but disappeared from his arsenal as he assumed more of a point forward role post-Chauncey Billups trade. Brandon Knight and Rodney Stuckey both found Prince on nice cuts to the basket. When he is catching the ball in the halfcourt, he’s making quick decisions with it. Against Minnesota, he caught and shot or caught and pump-faked then drove inside often. He also willingly kicked the ball back out to the guards when he didn’t have a play, a major difference from last year, when he would’ve just dribbled out and reset the offense himself, often causing the movement of his teammates to stagnate.

Many have been critical of the Pistons re-signing Prince. Joe Dumars’ defense for it is that he didn’t want to let a player with value walk away for nothing. If Prince continues to play this well, that decision will start to look less dubious.

Prince’s performance couldn’t save the Pistons from a loss, and that’s not a bad thing. The Pistons played a competitive game against an up and coming team with an established All-Star and an exciting young point guard. Their young players (minus Austin Daye) played primary roles in the game, took some lumps but also showed some things, and the team came away with a loss, which helps their lottery position. If the Pistons get a productive season out of Prince, continue to see young players in big roles and continue to lose, that’s really the best fans can hope for. The team will still get its high lottery pick and it will also have a veteran player to either use as a transition piece as young guys improve or serve as a trade piece.

Knight still trying to walk and chew gum

The good news for Brandon Knight against Minnesota: his assists were up (six), his turnovers were down (three), and he forced Ricky Rubio into 1-for-8 shooting.

The bad news is that while the running the offense portions of Knight’s game picked up, his shooting — which was strong when he was turning it over a lot — fell to 3-for-11, including several misses at the rim. Now, part of it is a product of Rubio. He’s already one of the better defensive guards in the league, and his length bothered Knight. But Knight also seemed to be slowing down and concentrating on protecting the ball and setting up others (both good things), which may have caused him to rush some shots he had more time on. He’s still a work in progress, but he seems to add new things to his game each time out and I’m excited to keep watching him grow.

Gordon’s answers

Ben Gordon‘s performance wasn’t perfect — technical foul free throws continue to flummox him — but he continued to play solid defense (it helped that Luke Ridnour is mostly content to shoot jumpers, but still, Gordon was solid at that end of the court again) and with Minnesota’s offense finally picking it up in the third quarter, Gordon hit important shots to stop runs.

Midway through the quarter, the T-Wolves went on a two minute run and quickly cut a 13-point lead to five amidst a flurry of Pistons turnovers. Gordon got the ball and aggressively took Luke Ridnour off the dribble, getting off his patented runner in the lane to put the Pistons back up seven. Then, with three minutes to go in the quarter, the T-Wolves cut it to two, but Gordon answered with a 3-pointer to push the lead back to five.

Minnesota tied it with about 10 minutes left in the fourth, and Gordon hit another jumper to give the Pistons back the lead. Down one with seven minutes left, Gordon faked a shot and got all the way to the basket to put the Pistons back up.

Now, all of this was moot since the Pistons eventually ran out of steam and Minnesota won, but hitting those types of shots was a key element in Gordon’s game in Chicago. He’s still too inconsistent and streaky, but taking those shots he used to take all the time is a good sign. This is the most comfortable looking stretch he’s had as a Piston.

Not much success with Love

Part of the reason Ben Wallace was inserted into the starting lineup was to prevent Jonas Jerebko from picking up early fouls. The reasoning was solid. When Jerebko would pick up early fouls, he’d have to come out of the game, sit, and often come back into the game as his super-aggressive self.

The problem against Minnesota is that Jerebko still had trouble staying out of foul trouble (picking up five in less than 25 minutes) and Greg Monroe fouled out in 28 minutes. The problem, obviously, was Kevin Love. Love — who is seriously in fantastic shape and has become even more bouncy than he was a year ago — was able to establish position on the offensive glass at will. The Pistons couldn’t block him out, and their bigs picked up a lot of fouls trying to keep a body on him (Jason Maxiell also had four fouls). Wallace struggled guarding him when Love moved out to the perimeter. Wallace was hesitant to chase him out to the 3-point line, and although Love didn’t shoot that well, he’s also a great passer, so giving him space on the perimeter allows him to find open teammates. I didn’t expect the Pistons to do well against Love tonight, but the sheer amount of pressure he put on their entire frontcourt was amazing to watch.

#LOLDarko

The long national nightmare of Darko Milicic hanging around in the NBA should be just about wrapped up soon. I mentioned in the game preview that despite the fact that he’s on pace for a not so great 40-40 distinction, he’s still inexplicably a starting center in the NBA. Tonight, looking like he just rolled out of bed and like a pair of clippers haven’t touched the back of his neck in months, about seven minutes of playing time was enough. He missed two shots, looked out of shape and was the main reason Monroe eclipsed the point total he had against Houston (four) by scoring five points in the first :90 seconds. Milicic didn’t start the second half, and the T-Wolves clearly were a more fun and more fluid team to watch without him doing his John Cena jog up the court.

76 Comments

  • Jan 18, 201210:56 pm
    by Willie

    Reply

    Tough shooting night for Stuckey and Knight, thought some calls didn’t go they way.  Free throws were horrible.  And were looking like the old lions right now and not knowing how to close games.  Usually don’t recommend Tay shooting that many shots a game but the dude is lighting in up lately and BG had one of his best games.

    • Jan 19, 20129:03 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Rubio’s length/defense was a big reason Knight and Stuckey shot poorly.

      • Jan 19, 201210:10 am
        by Marvin Jones

        Reply

        I disagree Patrick, I thought the reason was both were trying to drive and the lane was always clogged with bigs. With Daye and CV out of the rotation we have no floor spacers on the front line and with Ben, Maxiell and Wilkins on the floor at the same time you don’t even have anyone the opposing bigs really need to address defensively so they can hang back and clog the lane, even JJ is not a real scoring threat. Also having Ben in the starting lineup really messes of the flow of the offense, how many time did we see Monroe or Knight pass the ball to Ben in scoring position only to see him hold it and look for someone to pass it back to, too many; at some point Frank will have to admit that with an offense that scores only 85 pts per game, Ben, Max and Wilkins are not defensive enought to compensate for that; when your 2nd unit is getting consistently out scored by double digits you’re in deep trouble. JJ should go back in the starting lineup and subs should be Stuckey, Daye, CV and Macklin, with one of the starting guards, that unit should be able to score, rebound and defend well enough to keep us in games while the starters rest.  

        • Jan 19, 201210:14 am
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          You disagree that Rubio played good defense?

          • Jan 19, 201210:37 am
            by Marvin Jones

            I don’t think his defense was anything special, if the lane was more open Stuckey would have overpowered him and Brandon would have gone around him, don’t get me wrong, he moves his feet well but our guards really just had no where to go because the bigs were just laying for them.     

          • Jan 19, 201210:46 am
            by Patrick Hayes

            Rubio had six steals! Opposing guards have been shooting poorly against him all season because of his wingspan. He wasn’t just moving his feet, he was contesting jumpers and terrorizing passing lanes.

          • Jan 19, 20123:03 pm
            by frankie d

            rubio played excellent defense.
            i also thought that knight played excellent defense on rubio.  in fact, in the second half, it looked like he upped the intensity and really went after rubio.  fun to watch.
            comparing rubio to knight is not really fair.  rubio has essentially been playing pro ball for 6 years now.  coming into the nba, he’s not really a “rookie” in the same sense that knight is a rookie.  the fact that knight was able to acquit himself so well – on the defensive end, at least – speaks well for his future as a quality defensive guard.
            btw, knight is going to have those ups and downs offensively.  it will take him a while to figure guys out.  that is pretty much a given.  but if guys can bring that high level of defensive intensity, as a young player, and bring it consistently, that is pretty exciting, to this fan.

  • Jan 18, 201211:09 pm
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    Get angry with me if you must but here are the bottom 4 positions in the overall standings as of today. I know its wrong to hope for losses but it seems a lot easier than to hope for wins lately. Ping pong balls anyone?
    New Orleans 3-11
    Charlotte 3-12
    Detroit 3-12
    Washington 2-12

    • Jan 19, 201210:30 am
      by apa8ren9

      Reply

      What I hope happens is that we lose enough to get a decent amount of balls, but we have to start making these games closer so that Monroe and Knight can start taking lumps in cruch time situations.  Right now they are getting schooled during the course of the game, but our veterans arent helping keep it close because they are playing poorly as well.  Its all a part of the growth process for the young players but its just frustrating how they cant score and just give the ball away and dont give themselves a (good) chance to win some of these.

      • Jan 19, 20123:07 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        why is one of those vets, wilkins, playing?
        because of his defense?
        pulleeze!!!  derrick williams, a freakin rookie, embarrassed him.  he’s supposed to be playing because of his defensive ability and he is getting schooled by a rookie.
        he’s a coach’s security blanket.  that is all.

        • Jan 19, 20124:41 pm
          by gmehl1977

          Reply

          Maybe coach Frank feels Wilkins has a better percentage chance of offering something than Daye does. Of late can you blame him??

          • Jan 19, 201210:14 pm
            by Laser

            Yes, because we stand to gain NOTHING this season apart from making progress towards next season and beyond. Playing Wilkins probably wins us a few more games, but Austin Daye was a first round pick that could be a valuable and reasonably-priced player for us if he had a chance to develop. We’ve got a decision coming up on whether or not to pick up his $3 million option next season. This isn’t even about tanking the season, which would just be a nice side effect. But what do we have to gain by winning eleven games instead of nine?

          • Jan 19, 201210:42 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            “Playing Wilkins probably wins us a few more games”

            LOLOLOLOL? Have you seen Damian Wilkins play? I love these arguments that Wilkins getting like 10 minutes a game of situational duty is murdering Daye’s development and will cost the team lottery balls by helping them eek out wins that otherwise would’ve been losses.

            Wilkins isn’t good. His impact on the game is minimal, if any. In fact, he’s just as likely to negatively impact the result of the game as positively impact it. He plays because he tries really hard, so he gets those 10 minutes. I’m all for playing young guys, but it’s a joke at this point if Austin Daye can’t beat him out for minutes. That’s absolutely on Daye. Damien Wilkins is as much an obstacle to Austin Daye’s development as you are. He’s not going to help the Pistons win games. He’s simply a veteran player trying to hang onto a roster spot in the NBA and get a paycheck. Austin Daye, a talented first round pick, should have no problem eclipsing him in the rotation, and if he can’t, then I don’t see a reason for Austin Daye to be on this or any team.

  • Jan 18, 201211:15 pm
    by Mark

    Reply

    They need to lose out, fire/trade/amnesty everybody.

    If 0-16 could get Ford to clean house, maybe 3-63 would get Gores to do the same.

    This franchise SUCKS!

  • Jan 18, 201211:19 pm
    by Mark

    Reply

    No hope for this team now that Tayshaun has taken over again as the #1 option and Monroe is being treated like a bench player again, like last year.

    Foul trouble or not, for the last 10 quarters of basketball, Monroe is being ignored for some reason, and every guard we put it out there is making a strong effort to get Tayshaun the ball.

    Might make sense now after 3 straight 20 pts games, and Monroe struggling. But going into last gamem, Monroe was the one avg 25/gm over his last 3. Then suddenly got snubbed out of the offense for no reason, for Tayshaun instead.

    • Jan 19, 20129:05 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Prince hasn’t taken over as the No. 1 option, far from it. As I said in the post, it wasn’t like they were running strictly isos for him. Gordon was getting touches, Knight was getting touches and Monroe was getting touches.

      Monroe’s problem was fouls. He can’t be the No. 1 option if he’s not on the court.

  • Jan 18, 201211:26 pm
    by Max

    Reply

    Good article.
    I’d like to see Tay shoot a lot; especially as he and Monroe have pretty good developing chemistry running the two man game and because Tay scores such a high pct in the post.
    One thing about Tay’s health is that he is a vet who is rounding into shape like a lot of players around the league so the knee thing might have been a bit blown out of proportion.
    In my view, despite those who say he has declined, I can tell you as a pretty good fantasy player, that he has had some of the best statistical months of his career in the past two years in fewer minutes.   He used to play monster minutes and by his per 36 numbers, Prince arguably had the best two statistical seasons of his career the last two, on a per game basis, even though he had the first real injuries of his career and missed his first games.  If anything, he has progressed greatly in regards to being able to run and carry the offense at times during these last few years.
    Stuckey is playing pretty well considering he is now playing off the bench but I don’t understand why he continues in that role when BG is a former 6th man of the year and the worst defender of the three.   The scenario also hurts Bynum so it just seems more natural for the team to start Knight and Stuck.
    While I disagree about the importance of Daye, the current starting configuration hurts him too because with Jerebko and Stuckey coming off the bench, why would Frank ever want to put him in?
    Further, though it didn’t play out this way at this way tonight, which admittedly goes against my point, it seems more catastrophic to me for Monroe than Jerebko to get in foul trouble because Big Ben can’t play extended minutes and I don’t want to see Jerebko with Maxiell at center for extended minutes as a result.

  • Jan 18, 201211:28 pm
    by Max

    Reply

    I think Monroe might also be struggling because, despite people thinking he should play the 4, he is now playing quicker players and Big Ben is clogging up the middle whereas Jerebko opens things up a bit,

    • Jan 19, 20122:11 pm
      by vic

      Reply

      solution: Drummond / Davis…… I saw Ben or Maxiell lose a Monroe pass that will be a dunk next year when we get Drummond

  • Jan 18, 201211:30 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    knight did an admirable job defensively on rubio. was good to see his intensity and it bodes well for the future. he accepted the challenge and did well, imho.

    • Jan 19, 20129:06 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Yep, he was really strong on D and the three turnovers were also a good sign considering Rubio is one of the league leaders in steals and forces a lot of turnovers.

  • Jan 18, 201211:31 pm
    by Max

    Reply

    BTW: I looked it up and last season was Prince’s highest scoring season of his career on a per 36 minute basis. the third highest in assists and the third highest in FG%.   He did shoot the worst free throw pct of his career since his rookie season and he is a tad worse this year so far.

  • Jan 18, 201211:36 pm
    by Ryi

    Reply

    What kills me is the old 2004 offense curl play for RIP.  Why are we still running it for BG and Stuckey??  No plays in the offense for Stuckey who is your best all around scorer and BG is better off the dribble w/pick and role plays.  Offense needs a ton of work!

    • Jan 19, 20129:07 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Stuckey is shooting 34 percent, so it’s hard to run much of anything for him right now. He’s not hitting jumpers with any consistency and he’s not finishing well at the rim. The only thing he’s doing is getting tot he line.

      • Jan 19, 201210:15 am
        by Marvin Jones

        Reply

        I don’t think Stuckey is totally healthy right now or in game shape. I think the groin is still bothering him because he looks a little less explosive than usual. Give him some time, like Prince, and I think he’ll be finishing better and shooting better also.

        • Jan 19, 201210:22 am
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          I’m not saying he is healthy, but the results are the results. It’s hard to run plays for him right now when he’s not hitting close or long shots.

  • Jan 18, 201211:39 pm
    by Max

    Reply

    Hey Mark
    The first of Prince’s 20 point games, Monroe had one two.  Since then, he had a lot of trouble with Dalembert and got into foul trouble.
    Monroe just had a great 20 point game streaking going for him, but to think he was going to just keep doing it when he never had before and does get into foul trouble is getting a little ahead of ourselves and Monroe two game “slump” shows you that the bar is now very, very high for Monroe since he actually put up pretty good numbers for a second year player of his stature.
    I’d also like to add that he has been uncharacteristically rushing a bit and not taking care of the ball.

    • Jan 18, 201211:53 pm
      by Mark

      Reply

      Monroe had 25 in that game, but 17 was in the first half. The second half of that game is when the Pistons suddenly and mysteriously switched to the Isolayshaun Offense, and Monroe was breing ignored in the low post. Since then he has been all out of sync.

      They had a great thing going with their Center rolling on the low block for 3 straight games. The abandoned it for no real reason at all, to go with Isolayshaun instead.

      I don’t understand it. Do you?

      • Jan 19, 20126:55 am
        by Daye and Knight

        Reply

        Hardly a great thing when the loses kept stacking up. Monroe, Prince…does it really matter if either 1 of them scores when we keep losing? Monroe will be the future but Prince needed to step his game up and has been getting the opportunity to actually be a leader, one of the reasons he was brought back in the first place. Maybe now he can be more vocal in the locker with his confidence in his game rising…btw Mark you would make a “GREAT” agent for Monroe since he’s the ONLY person you ever really talk about on here lol

  • Jan 18, 201211:39 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    Re: Tayshaun… At some point it would be nice to be looked at as a voice of reason when it comes to sound basketball analysis. There comes a point where you’re right so consistently but it feels like you’re talking to a brick wall (or brick walls in this case). Maybe a credibility deficit is the price I pay for being so passionate and personal about my hatred for Joe Dumars and what he’s done to this team, but that’s not going anywhere, so perhaps I have to live with it…
     
    It doesn’t take a genius to look at the variables surrounding players and determine how strongly to weigh the evidence of a given sampling of games. Blog postings like the recent one by Feldman that buried Tayshaun (and the ones by Feldman and Hayes that buried Rip and Gordon) are the worst. Weak, flawed analysis supported by bogus and incomplete information. Bugs the shit out of me. At some point I hope you’ll heed my advice and just stop writing them. To anyone paying attention, they really damage the credibility of an otherwise entertaining and informative blog.

    • Jan 18, 201211:45 pm
      by Laser

      Reply

      Also, I didn’t watch much of the game, but I still have it on my DVR. I might speed through it to see Tayshaun’s shots. I’ve made a point of how invisible he’s been in the offense, and it seems like the team is just plain better off with him having the ball in his hands and making decisions more often. No sense in paying him a bunch of money and locking him up for eternity so he can play on just one end of the court while the rest of the team turns it over 30 times and shoots 30%.
       
      Still, as with Stuckey (who, by design, is utterly indispensable to this team), he’s got to get traded. Dude scores 70 points in three games, including 30 against a bad team, and we still can’t pull out a win. Time to bottom out already. Anybody on this team over the age of 25 right now isn’t going to be around by the time this is a .500 team again, so there’s no reason they should be around now.

      • Jan 19, 20124:37 am
        by MrHappyMushroom

        Reply

        You got it, Laser. Those who claim that Tay is now a bad player are wrong. He’s still good. He’s easily one of the three or four best players on the team.

        But he is utterly and totally useless for this team. They are awful and are miles away from competing. Tay averages 23 per game this week? BFD–they still can’t come particularly close to beating bad teams. All Tay’s relatively good play will accomplish is maybe a couple more wins (woo-hoo 16-50 and not 14-52) at the expense of lottery balls and young player development and assessment.

        Dumars really has lost it. He must have–HE MUST HAVE–thought, “You know, this team isn’t far from competing. Tay is still pretty good. His leadership and consistency could be the difference maker. He will be the key to making a playoff run.” And, you know, if he had been right, then Tayshaun Prince wasn’t a bad signing.

        But he was so, so wrong. This is a 15-20 win team over a full season. Maybe, if all stars align, they could pull out 25-30. Maybe. What a colossal waste of money and resources.

        I hated Tay’s attitude last year worst than anyone else on the team and I wanted him gone for that. But I don’t blame him for signing this contract or to pretend that he’s not still a good player. He is. But there is no imaginable reason for him to be a Piston.

        • Jan 19, 20129:09 am
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          “Those who claim that Tay is now a bad player are wrong. He’s still good.”

          I don’t think he’s either. He’s a solid, starting caliber player in the league, same as he’s always been. You’re in trouble if he’s your No. 1 or No. 2 option though.

    • Jan 19, 201212:04 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      “At some point it would be nice to be looked at as a voice of reason when it comes to sound basketball analysis.”Dude, sometimes I agree with you and sometimes I don’t. Sometimes you turn out right and sometimes you don’t. And you often do have reasons for your beliefs. But you are hardly a greater voice of reason than everyone else (although I grant you are more reasonable than either detroitpcb or jodi jezz). But making arrogant statements like this is super annoying and makes everyone (or at least me) really want to ignore you and write you off as a stuck up idiot.

      “Maybe a credibility deficit is the price I pay for being so passionate and personal about my hatred for Joe Dumars”
      Probably a little. Although it’s not your distaste for Dumars and his moves. I too seriously hope he gets fired. I just don’t trust him at all anymore. But I’d be fine with him staying on as a scout. But your violent references to wanting to cause DUmars bodily harm to hurt your credibility somewhat. More than that, though, your credibility is hurt by your through the roof pessimism. I hate where the Pistons are at. I think they have arrived here through serious incompetence. However, I recognize that they are a run of the mill bad team. There is nothing special, historical, or ground breaking about the Pistons situation. In fact, it is similar to (albeit better than) where the Knicks were at a couple years ago. Speaking of which, if Joe keeps his job much longer, he could end up having even more ties to Isaiah Thomas. Both fantastic leaders of the Bad Boys turned failed GMs with very good draft records especially outside the lottery.

      • Jan 19, 20121:57 pm
        by Laser

        Reply

        I’ve been shouting at the top of my lungs that this team was going in the wrong direction and headed for the gutter for years. There are a bunch of reasons it’s not a run-of-the-mill bad team. I’ve actually been rather patient with this team to still be trying to watch games and discuss them at all.

        • Jan 19, 20124:04 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          A bunch of reasons?
          It was really good not long ago. So? That doesn’t affect what it is now. It has several really bad contracts on the books. So? Not every bad team does but most do. It only has a couple really promising pieces. Again, normal bad team.

          And yeah, all fans have known it’s been headed in the wrong direction for years. You hardly have special insight there. Sure, some (read: all) are more optimistic than you, but that doesn’t mean nobody else can see what’s going on. In fact, there are clearly many more rational “voices of reason” out there.

    • Jan 19, 20129:22 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      “Re: Tayshaun… At some point it would be nice to be looked at as a voice of reason when it comes to sound basketball analysis.”

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Sorry, hard to take that seriously after reading about a hundred posts by you about murdering the GM over the past month.

      “There comes a point where you’re right so consistently but it feels like you’re talking to a brick wall (or brick walls in this case).”

      You aren’t right so consistently though. Sometimes you’re right, more often you’re over the top and borderline insane.

      “Maybe a credibility deficit is the price I pay for being so passionate and personal about my hatred for Joe Dumars and what he’s done to this team”

      DING DING DING

      “Blog postings like the recent one by Feldman that buried Tayshaun”

      It didn’t bury anyone. This is a HUGE problem with you and another reason you are not taken seriously here. You took a post by Dan that essentially said, “This is the worst x number of games stretch of Prince’s career production-wise and injuries appear to be impacting him more than he’s saying,” and translated that into, “OMFG, you’re saying he’s done as a useful NBA player!” You continuously argue the wrong points, miss the point or just cherry pick details and draw different, more reactionary conclusions. Stop doing this, respond to the actual points being made with your own evidence that doesn’t involve threatening to murder people, and your opinions will be treated with much more credibility.

      “(and the ones by Feldman and Hayes that buried Rip and Gordon) are the worst.”

      I’ve never wrote a post burying Gordon, other than to say he’s not worth his contract. That was true even when he was at his peak in Chicago (which is why the Bulls wouldn’t pay him). I stand wholeheartedly by that opinion. Gordon can score and can’t do much else. That’s not worth $12 million per year.

      “Weak, flawed analysis supported by bogus and incomplete information. Bugs the shit out of me. At some point I hope you’ll heed my advice and just stop writing them. To anyone paying attention, they really damage the credibility of an otherwise entertaining and informative blog.”

      Can you tell me what Rip Hamilton is doing in Chicago this year? Even with a great three-game scoring stretch, Prince is STILL shooting just 41 percent this year and averaging career lows in rebounds, assists and FTA. It’s good to see him coming around a little, but dude is still not having a good season at all so far. Ben Gordon is shooting 42 percent and has a 1 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. I would never argue and I don’t think Dan would either that we’re always right in our analysis, but seriously man, you telling anyone they have a credibility problem is about the biggest joke in the world.

      • Jan 19, 20122:00 pm
        by Laser

        Reply

        1) Homicidal thoughts about a deadbeat GM have nothing to with analyzing the game of basketball.

        2) Saying that a blog entry unfairly buried Tayshaun isn’t “cherry picking details” when the headline was “Tayshaun’s Best Days Are Far Behind Him” or some such. That’s not a detail, that’s a thesis statement.

        • Jan 19, 20122:06 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          1. They have everything to do with whether or not the person making the argument is sane though.

          2. You still haven’t explained how that headline is wrong. Or do you expect him to suddenly start eclipsing his best career seasons at age 31? Doesn’t mean he’s finished, just means he’s about finished at the level of production he was at for the prime years of his career.

  • Jan 18, 201211:45 pm
    by Max

    Reply

    @RYI, the offense does need a ton of work but I do like when they run the play for Stuck as I think he can be really effective off the ball.

    • Jan 18, 201211:55 pm
      by Mark

      Reply

      Have you ever seen Stuckey play before?

      He bricks wide open lay-ups off the back of the backboard.

  • Jan 19, 201212:01 am
    by Mark

    Reply

    Tayshaun should NEVER be leading the team in FGA’s. Thats how we ended up getting stuck with him again, as he padded his stats all year last year, conning Joe into a new deal. He should be 3rd-4th like he was on the ’04 team. He’s a role player/4th option guy. If you make him the #1 option and give him a ton shots, he will get you 20 pts, but you will lose every time.
    It just doesnt make sense when you’re trying to develop a young big man, why your 4th option is suddenly getting TWICE as many shots?

    If this were Feb/March, I’d understand trying up his trade value. But thats a long way away, and he could very well go back to the 8 pts/32% FG Tay for the rest of the year before you can trade him. Monroe should’ve been getting all those FGA’s struggling or not. He needs to learn how to work his way through it. Not shooting at all is not working through it. Its just prolonging a slump over many games instead. When he could’ve shot himself out of it already tonight if he were getting those 23 FGA’s the last two games like Tayshaun.

    And they couldve lost both games just the same.

    • Jan 19, 20121:07 am
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      The Pistons are 77-25 when Prince scores 20 points.

      • Jan 19, 20123:00 am
        by gmehl1977

        Reply

        Ha ha…owned!

        • Jan 19, 20126:59 am
          by Daye and Knight

          Reply

          There needs to be a “like” button for Dan’s response haha

      • Jan 19, 20124:07 pm
        by Mark

        Reply

        Ok stat-boy, why don’t you tell us the Pistons record when Tayshaun leads the team in FGA’s? As THAT was my point, NOT how many points he scores. 

        • Jan 19, 20125:10 pm
          by Dan Feldman

          Reply

          The Pistons are 69-43 when Prince leads them in field-goal attempts. And that wasn’t an easy stat to compute! I legitimately want an apology and a promise that this was your last comment with name calling.

          • Jan 19, 20126:57 pm
            by Mark

            As for the comment “stat-boy”, that wasn’t a diss, just a friendly reference to Tony Reali on PTI. I apologize if it was offensive. :)

            My whole point is that we are better as a team when Tayshaun is the NOT the main focal point of the offense. I know you said it was a lot of work computing that stat, and I appreciate it, but really the only way to prove/disprove my theory is to also compute our record when he is NOT leading the team in FGA’s, and compare the two. Otherwise it only paints half the picture. 

            I think we have a better winning % in games when he is not leading the team in FGA’s vs when he is the #1 option. Which, if true, proves my point that we are better with him playing a background role in the offense. Not only because he stalls the offense as a team as the #1 option, but the more energy he’s putting into scoring, the less he’s doing all the little things that he did when we were most successful and he was playing background.

          • Jan 19, 20129:40 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            LOL … Dan’s a little sensitive. There used to be a troll who commented here and dropped “stat boy” usually accompanied by some other insults, so I’m sure that’s where Dan’s mind went rather than the Reali-Kornheiser use of it.

          • Jan 19, 20129:51 pm
            by tarsier

            54-28
            54-28
            64-18
            53-29
            59-23
            39-43
            27-55
            30-52
            3-12

            Those are the Pistons records whilst Prince has been on the team. So when Prince hasn’t led in scoring they have been 341-245. Granted this doesn’t take into account the games Prince has missed. Also, it doesn’t take into account the fact that the Pistons are now better off with Prince leading in FGAs then they were in their heyday on account of there being fewer good scorers on the team now than then. But ignoring those two disclaimers, Detroit in the Prince era is  .579 with Prince not leading in FGAs and .616 with Prince leading in FGAs.

          • Jan 19, 201210:12 pm
            by tarsier

            Prince was 27-15 in 02-03, 12-37 in 09-10, 29-49 in 10-11.
            So with him on the floor but not leading in FGAs, the Pistons are 298-211 or  .585 compared to .616 when he doesn’t lead in FGAs. That 3% difference works against your argument, Mark, but is small enough to write off as the Pistons perform the same either way.

          • Jan 19, 201210:15 pm
            by tarsier

            *compared to .616 when he does lead in FGAs

      • Jan 19, 20129:29 pm
        by bg8

        Reply

        just wondering, what is the pistons record with prince scoring 20 or more pts during this new pistons era (since signing bg and cv) without counting that old era when they were still good. i think that would be a better stats. that old era, they had a bunch of scorer, this new era, they got bg, who’s inconsistent 

    • Jan 19, 20129:27 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      “Monroe should’ve been getting all those FGA’s struggling or not.”

      Monroe wasn’t struggling all that much offensively last night. He just couldn’t stay on the court for very long because he couldn’t stop fouling. Hard to go to him if he’s not out there. When he was out there, he was getting a lot of touches.

  • Jan 19, 201212:23 am
    by Ryi

    Reply

    @Max

    Yeah I do think Stuckey is great off the ball, and his attempts need to go up.  I just didn’t like that play that we ran for RIP so many years.  Switch it up.

    @Mark

    Who is the only other player to get 40 in the past 10 years for the Pistons.  HAVE YOU SEEN STUCKEY PLAY before?!

    • Jan 19, 20127:04 am
      by Daye and Knight

      Reply

      Clearly he has not, it’s Monroe this and Monroe that with mark lol Stuckey is good for the team cause he draws plenty of fouls and is second in free throw % just to make things better (albeit last nights performance at the line). They showed in one of the last 3 games the team with Stuckey and the team without him…and clearly the team is BETTER with Stuckey on the floor, in fact without Stuckey getting the Magic in foul trouble we would have lost that game too

  • Jan 19, 20121:45 am
    by damian

    Reply

    holy shit, we are one win further along than the wizards. i don’t feel as optimistic as i did a few days ago.

    • Jan 19, 20123:05 am
      by gmehl1977

      Reply

      Depends on what your optimistic  about. Now if your optimistic about more ping pong balls then you should be a happy man. If it was for us to challenge for an 8th seed then not so much. Just do what i do and hope and pray we can have a 76ers like turn around next season.

  • Jan 19, 20121:48 am
    by damian

    Reply

    stuckey should be getting open on some off those cutting plays miami used to ran for wade a few years, post shaq, pre-three era. wade didn’t improve his shot as much then, but seems to be more open than he should have been when he had his looks near the rim. stuckey needs that. not to mention wade’s acting once he gets there.

  • Jan 19, 20124:00 am
    by frankie d

    Reply

    so where are the calls to bench damien wilkins?
    he was embarrassed by a rookie, williams, who repeatedly went by wilkins, who is supposed to be some type of defensive stopper.   if an 8 year vet can’t stop a rookie, what good is he?
    especially considering that he has a bunch of 0-__ games recently.
    why is he even playing?
    here’s why…
    even though he is a mediocre defender, he makes the coach feel good because the coach knows that he can at least count on wilkins to be in the spot he’s supposed to be in.
    he will make the right rotation.  he will be with the right offensive player.  he will not blow an assignment.
    the fact that he sucks as a defender and can’t defend my grandma doesn’t matter.  what matters is that he is at least right where he is supposed to be, even if it a prelude to being dogged…and coaches love that type of predictability, even if it really doesn’t help move a team towards a win. 
    wilkins sucks.  he is a bad offensive player and a mediocre defensive player.  yes, he might be in the spot he’s supposed to be in, most times,  and that comforts coaches, but he is utterly incapable of stopping anybody.
    go check the philly tape to see meeks torch wilkins for 17 points in the 4th. 
    and this guy is taking PT from young players?
    what a joke.

    • Jan 19, 20129:28 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      LOL … Damien Wilkins played six minutes man. Relax.

      • Jan 19, 20123:24 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        i know.. i know…it just irritates the heck out of me.
        it just hit me last night that he really isn’t that great a defensive player.  he’s just ok.  but he does execute the coach’s game plan so even if he sucks, he still plays.  he’s like a teacher’s pet who gets an “A-” because the teacher likes him and because he works hard and is essentially graded on a curve.

    • Jan 19, 20122:39 pm
      by apa8ren9

      Reply

      Wilkins did play horribly and I have defended the reason he plays in prior posts.   To your point though, what happens in the future?  Those six to 12 minutes that Wilkins gets will be up for grabs.   Your boy Daye will get an opportunity in the next practice session to win those minutes.  They have today off and I dont know if they will practice or not since they were traveling, but if Daye doesn’t get another look over the next 3-4 games I think we will know Mr. Daye isn’t taking advantage to get better.  He only has to convince one person and that is Frank.

  • Jan 19, 20128:41 am
    by neutes

    Reply

    Tayshaun went off for 29 (23 shots, 0 free throws) and we matched our 85 PPG average on the season. Yay!

    • Jan 19, 20129:29 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Well, it’s better than Prince playing horribly, further tanking his value, and still losing, right?

      • Jan 19, 20129:31 am
        by neutes

        Reply

        I wish I could believe that Tay’s value meant something. I’m quite positive he’ll be retiring a Piston either way.

        • Jan 19, 20129:35 am
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          I’m with you, but I’d rather have the illusion that there’s another option.

  • Jan 19, 20129:04 am
    by apa8ren9

    Reply

    Wow, I thought I would wake up with a better attitude after last night’s loss but Im still pissed.   Its a travesty that all five starters took turns handing the ball over to the Tpups down the stretch of a very winnable game.  Just get to the point where the other team has to work for it. Instead we just gave it to them. Look at the next 5 games.   Much better teams coming on the horizon.  You cant let these games slide.  We are going to be in the lottery anyway but you have to win when the opportunity presents itself.  You were up by 16 and shot 10-21 at the free throw line in an 8 point game.  And who the hell is Anthony Tolliver??

    • Jan 19, 20129:30 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      “And who the hell is Anthony Tolliver??”

      I would LOVE a player like Anthony Tolliver on the Pistons.

      • Jan 19, 20123:20 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        tolliver was one of those d-league refugees that joe d has never really gone after much.
        i saw a few of his games back in ’10 when he came up for GS, and he was impressive.  sort of a twener, but he could definitely play.  they’d also signed reggie williams so they had a couple of d-league refugees who were bringing energy and scoring and intensity every game.  back then i was asking, who the hell is anthony tolliver and who the hell is reggie williams and why can’t the pistons sign guys like that.

  • Jan 19, 201210:06 am
    by damian

    Reply

    i fucking can’t stand damien wilkens. how was he our marquee signing? spells the name wrong, hated him on the seattle once upon a time’s, hated him on the atlanta 4th quarters are torture to watch’s teams. i would rather have daye look like a dingus for an additional six to fifteen minutes, so we can figure out if he’s a yellowbone with heart, and a lack of meat, or just a yellowbone with a jumper that he’ll never be open to hit.
    i don’t wish injury on anyone, but i do wish a suspension for wilkens. i hope he’s a doper or something.

    • Jan 19, 201210:15 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      He wasn’t a “marquee” signing. He was a training camp invitee who made the team because they needed to fill out the roster. If Kyle Singler didn’t stay in Spain, they would’ve had no reason to keep Wilkins.

  • Jan 19, 201210:19 am
    by damian

    Reply

    who else did we sign? if he’s at the top of the list of signings, he’s our marquee signing, haha.

  • Jan 19, 201210:28 am
    by damian

    Reply

    clearly, kyle singler never wanted me as a fan. he’s a selfish man. a selfish man.

  • Jan 19, 20123:53 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    i’ve been hoping that joe d signed prince so that he could showcase him and trade him later this year.  based on his recent comments, it looks like joe wants to keep tay around for the duration of his contract.  too bad, cause tay would probably bring a first rounder somewhere in the 10-20 range, from the right team.  getting a choice in that range would go a long, long way towards the rebuilding process.  get a fairly high choice – in the 1-5 range – and then get another mid-first round choice, and you could add a couple of young studs to the roster.

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