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Pistons help Lawrence Frank snap personal 20-game losing streak

Dating back to his last head coaching stint with the New Jersey Nets, it had been a while since Lawrence Frank had coached a winning team. After losing the first three games of the season, Frank, who lost 17 straight before being fired by the Nets, had lost 20 straight personally. Saturday’s win helped Frank put that ugly mark behind him. Brendan Savage of the Flint Journal:

Only six other coaches have had losing streaks of at least 20 games and the NBA record for consecutive losses is 26 set last year by Cleveland’s Byron Scott.

“I’m all about setting records,” Frank joked before turning serious “It’s never been about me. It’s good for our group to experience a little success. Like I said, we have to keep working and grind to get better.”


  • Jan 1, 20122:20 pm
    by JT's Hoops Blog


    Personally, I never thought Lawrence Frank was that great a coach.  The reason that he lasted so long was because he had Jason Kidd on his roster.

    • Jan 1, 20125:44 pm
      by Marvin Jones


      Oh yeah, like Phil Jackson lasting so long becauseof Michael Jordan and Kobe and Shaq, great players always make great coaches. Frank is a good coach who will look much better when he gets better players. It’s not rocket science. 

  • Jan 1, 20123:02 pm
    by frankie d


    agreed.  nothing in his record indicates that he is nothing more than a mediocre coach. 
    he’s obviously a bright basketball mind, but there is lots more to winning in the nba than knowing how to diagram a play.
    you hire assistant coaches to do that stuff for you.
    frank is destined to become another one of joe d’s failed coaching hires.
    no one worth a warm bucket of spit wants to coach here because the word is out that joe d meddles too much.  players know that they can always go above the coach’s head, so the coach has no real authority. 
    once upon a time, joe d had the pick of the coaching litter.   now, he is trolling the dregs, trying to bring in anyone with a clue and a resume without too many errors.

  • Jan 1, 20123:03 pm
    by frankie d


    the post should have started out…
    nothing in his record indicates that he is anything more than a mediocre coach.
    sorry about the mistake.

    • Jan 1, 20125:49 pm
      by Marvin Jones


      The whole post was a mistake, to suggest that good coaches don’t want to coach here is ridiculous. A good coach that knows how to handle players will be just fine, Joe will back the coach and the owner will back the coach. Those diva days are gone. Frank is an above average coach and I think the Pistons will improve under his leadership.

      • Jan 1, 20126:19 pm
        by frankie d


        michael curry…
        john kuester…
        lawrence frank…
        2 rookie head coaches with absolutely no pro experience.
        one had an abysmal college coaching record.
        and frank is the owner of the worst record for losses at the start of a season and a sub-.500 overall record.
        over the last few years. lots of experienced coaches have been courted and all of them have said no, so the gm has been stuck with the dregs
        above average coach?
        by what measure?
        his win/loss record?
        his ownership of a dubious record for straight losses
        after 3 seasons above .500, 4 straight sub .500 seasons.
        you can have your opinion of his coaching ability.  that is your pergative.
        his record says something else. it is what it is, and it say that he is a below average coach.

  • Jan 1, 20127:10 pm
    by Max


    Prominent coaches tend to join teams that are either elite or on the verge of being so unless the team is in one of the few “chosen” markets.   The Pistons have historically had no trouble, both before and after Joe, at attracting top coaches to the team when the roster was more attractive.
    Michael Curry and Coach _______ were both instances of the team giving a chance to new head coaches who had histories with the team during a period of rebuilding.  In the case of Curry, I thought during his entire career that he would be a head coach and can recall him running the workouts and taking part in the coaching as a player as far back as when Grant Hill was at his best.
    Coach __________ was a Brown assistant during the 2004 title team and came with a long assistant resume that also included being a starting pg at North Carolina for Dean Smith.
    I wasn’t against either hiring at the day of hiring because I rather take a chance on new coach versus one I already know is mediocre.   Carlyle got his first job from Joe too and the Pistons were rebuilding.  Both coaches worked out very poorly obviously, though Curry’s season was kind of nuked when he prepped all summer to have Billups and then had to deal with the AI, RIP, Stuckey nightmare of PT as a rookie coach.
    As for Frank, I’m a New Yorker who goes to lots of Nets games and I was long ago convinced that he is a prodigal coaching talent who will be an elite coach if he is not already.   He has all of the ingredients other than having been a former player and he never stops working.
    Think of this…..he coached the Nets from 2004 to 2009 and he is STILL one of the league’s youngest coaches.   I hope we just keep him forever the way we should have with Carlyle.

    • Jan 1, 20128:18 pm
      by frankie d


      max wrote:
      “Michael Curry and Coach _______ were both instances of the team giving a chance to new head coaches who had histories with the team during a period of rebuilding. ”
      and totally at odds with what joe d has always said.
      curry was hired to coach a team that had been to 6 straight conference finals.  it was widely regarded as an elite team that was likely to have another deep playoff run.  the team had 3 all stars and another regarded as one of the league’s elite role players.
      that should have been a plum job that any elite coach would have lusted after.  just as the job was considered when joe had pick of the litter and chose flip saunders.
      hardly choosing a young coach to give that young coach a chance during a “rebuilding” period.
      kuester was hired to coach a playoff team that most regarded as having had a fluke bad season because of the turmoil from the AI trade.  that is certainly what joe d has always indicated to fans.   he has steadfastly refused to acknowledge that he is “rebuilding” and has instead indicated that he wanted to simply reconstruct the team on the run, without rebuilding.  
      so the idea that kuester was hired during a “rebuilding” period is totally at odds with history and with what the team’s general manager has stated publically.  
      if joe dumars has ever indicated in any fashion, that the team is rebuilding, would you please provide the quotes.

      “ I was long ago convinced that he is a prodigal coaching talent who will be an elite coach if he is not already.   He has all of the ingredients other than having been a former player and he never stops working.Think of this…..he coached the Nets from 2004 to 2009 and he is STILL one of the league’s youngest coaches. ”
      i am sure frank is glad that he has such fans.  and you are certainly welcome to your beliefs.  can you please provide evidence that frank is an elite coach?
      his record indicates just the opposite.  a sub 500 record and 4 straight seasons of not winning more games than he has won.   i won’t repeat the numbers but they are not pretty.  and the idea that his youth recommends him is curious, as it seems irrelevant to a consideration of his worth as a coach.
      he is what he is.  and regarding winning his first games…most observers felt that he pretty much let the team coach itself, as he had one of the league’s acknowledged best leaders in jason kidd and they were very happy to get rid of their old coach, byron scott.  while he is to be given credit for the wins, one must consider the entire context.  
      winning your first 13 games with someone else’s team is obviously not as important as losing your last 16 with a team you’d coached for 6 years.

  • Jan 1, 20127:11 pm
    by Max


    And btw: While Frank is the owner of a dubious record, he also started his coaching career by winning his first 13 games which is the best starting record for a rookie coach in any of the 4 major leagues.  Take that.

  • Jan 2, 20122:25 am
    by Max


    I don’t even know why I’m bothering at this point, but Joe would just never say the team is rebuilding but that doesn’t mean they haven’t been doing so.
    Also, you are very wrong about the Frank’s finals games with New Jersey being so significant and the media in New York was fair for once and not hard on him and did not blame him.  They had a terrible roster that also went through a slew of injuries right away and he’d been there for 7 years which is an eternity for a coach to last these days without having a team tire of hearing his voice.  A lot of the NY media didn’t think he should get fired and though NJ was being silly and shortsighted.  Also, these changes often occur because of tensions and animosities. Quite the opposite when coach Frank left New Jersey; he was still beloved by everyone in the organization and I know people and this is incredibly unusual for any coach’s departure of any stature and in any circumstance.
    Go find anyone of merit who has a low opinion of Frank or even doesn’t speak glowingly or do you think you know the game better than Charlie Rosen who ranked coach 6th best coach right now during the off season.
    Your four seasons under 500 is a lot of nonsense as those teams had no big men whatsoever and coaches can’t work miracles.  On that score, I think Coach Scott is a decent coach and his 26 game losing steak last year doesn’t prove that he’s not.

    • Jan 2, 20124:40 am
      by frankie d


      this is the last time i will bother with you because you obviously cannot respond, but …again, where is the evidence/
      you are obviously all warm and fuzzy about frank and that is fine.  i do not begrudge you your personal feelings about him as a person and as a coach.  but the numbers and facts are a different matter.  by the time of his record setting losing streak, the team had been losing for several seasons.  that is a fact.
      whether journalist continue to write good things about a coach has nothing to do with that coach’s capabilities.  just like with athletes, journalists tend to give positive coverage to individuals who treat them well and make their jobs easier and they tend to be harsher on those who are not so accommodating.   my guess is that frank was very media friendly, for whatever reason, and he benefitted from those close and friendly relationships.
      i don’t give a hoot about charlie rosen’s opinion.  he just happens to have a regular forum to express his opinions.  we all have our views and i’d stack my expertise against any of those writers.  i’ve been watching nba basketball longer than most of them have been alive.
      so, i will ask once more…
      what FACTS do you have that indicate that frank is an above-average coach?
      the opinions of others do not qualify.  facts…numbers…that is what matters.  if you can point to certain facts that support you view, fine.  but the idea taht i should accept the opinion of someone else is ridiculous.

  • Jan 2, 20124:18 pm
    by Max


    You cannot boil down judging coaches by resort to their win-loss record because they coach enormously different rosters.  If you don’t understand this simple fact and realize that you have to look at each and every season and decide how many games a given coach could or should have won in relation to the roster he had been handed than there is no hope of your understanding who is a good coach and who is not.  The subjective factors in judging are actually much more important and you are wrong if you think the NY media will go easy on anyone simple because someone is nice to them.  There is no more difficult market to hide any faults.  D’Antoni could have the best record in the league this year and the savvy NY writers would give Mike Woodson the credit and continue to call him Antoni cause he doesn’t stress D and they would be right.
    I could sit here and give you hundreds of examples of why record is not the way to judge coaches but I’ll content myself with just a few representatives.
    1) When Larry Bird won coach of the year he let assistant Rick Carlyle run the offense and assistant Mike Brown run the defense.  Shortly thereafter, Bird quit…………would you use his record to say he is a great coach or not?
    2) Avery Johnson had the best winning pct in the history of regular season coaching when he joined the Nets and yet he had been fired from his job and after a finals appearance too.  Well, Dallas did so for a few reasons:  A) he was utterly inflexible and wanted to maintain an offensive philosophy that was at odds with his personal–which is a frequent failing of coaches who might like good in certain situations but not others.   In contrast, when Carlyle took over in Dallas, he instituted the Princeton offense for some weeks, realized it wasn’t working and  scrapped it.  This is the kind of flexibility that Johnson is not capable of.  B) Johnson was badly outcoached in the playoffs by Nelson in that first round he lost to Golden State which brings up another issue.  Regular seasons wins mean zilch if you can’t coach in the playoffs.
    3) Flip Saunders won a lot of games in MINN and DET.  He is losing a lot of games in Wash.  Whatever your opinion of his coaching acumen, did he get measurably worse or did his personal?

  • Jan 2, 20124:39 pm
    by Max


    And BTW:  I just looked at Frank’s coaching record and he had 4 winning seasons followed by 2 losing seasons and the 16 game losing streak.  The two losing seasons in question were both 34-48.

  • Jan 2, 20124:40 pm
    by Max


    So either you lied or were wrong when you said Frank had suffered 4 straight sub 500 seasons. He only ever presided over 2 as 16 games does not qualify as a season.

    • Jan 3, 20127:18 pm
      by frankie d


      you need to take a look at the numbers and my actual words.
      you are absolutely incorrect and your creative way of determinig what can and cannot be counted is amusing. 
      frank is what he is…a scrub coach with a mediocre record.
      if he does better with detroit and erases that past history, i will be a very happy pistons’ fan.
      but i’m not drinking the kool aid about him being some elite coach when he record screams just the opposite.
      and seven seasons is an excellent sample.  it’s not like he got one or two years and then had the rug pulled out.  he had a nice long, largely unsuccessful run.
      i hope he has better luck here.

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