Comments on: Lawrence Frank should rely on veterans less

By: apa8ren9

apa8ren9 — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:41:19 +0000

I see where you are coming from and I dont think we have come to the point in the season yet where you say screw it and just give Daye minutes like that. I do believe he is screwing up that bad right now. Maybe you do it the last 2 weeks/10 games of the season or something like that. He has to respond to the challenge on some level. Im rooting for the guy at the same time I say he sucks, because he has a skill set that can be very useful down the line on a good team. We’ve seen flashes of it.

By: Max

Max — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 20:01:54 +0000

Since you brought up trade deadline I will only say: BG and CV’s trade value at the deadline is absolutely dependent on them playing well and showing something before the deadline, whereas I’m pretty sure there are teams who’d be willing to trade for Daye and maybe Macklin whether they play or not. So there.

By: Max

Max — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:58:35 +0000

Collins has vets to play with young players and does play veterans Brand and Iggy.
The problem with playing a lot of Daye, who is playing horrible, and Macklin is not just that they are young, but that if you put them on the court with Knight, Monroe and Stuckey, the team is probably the youngest lineup in the entire league with the least on-court experience in the NBA.
I don’t think such a scenario is any bit ideal because it is difficult imagining the players even approaching the level of cohesion they have so far while playing the veterans and if things were breaking down any worse, the situation would be too demoralizing and so few plays would be properly run that the young players wouldn’t learn much except how to get used to sucking anyway.
Finally, the amnesty option is not so obvious because they can only use it on one of them and their contracts are so different that it would be a hard choice even if you knew which player you thought was more valuable. CV has screwed up process by twisting his ankle so they haven’t even gotten a look at him yet this year. Further, the way the amnesty seems to be used suggests that a team should know how they will use money before amnestying a player and therefore, the amount of money needed might trump any decision based wholly on BG vs CV. Maybe they like Gordon more but need his money to sign free agent. It is not so obvious as you say.

By: tarsier

tarsier — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:32:08 +0000

I’m all for giving minutes to CV and BG to determine who to amnesty/figure out if either can get any trade value whatsoever. My biggest argument is against giving minutes to Wilkens.

By: tarsier

tarsier — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:29:36 +0000

Because it’s not Gores’ job to know much about basketball. His job is to OK or veto moves based on if the money involved is too steep. It’s Joe’s job to make smart basketball decisions.

By: tarsier

tarsier — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:27:44 +0000

If you honestly believe that Daye being on the court would hamper the development of the players playing with him, that is a fair point. I just don’t think that is the case.

By: tarsier

tarsier — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:26:16 +0000

Right, I don’t believe the Pistons can make the playoffs, I think Dumars seems to. As for Daye, he hasn’t earned minutes. And it would be great if he did. And if his PT were costing the Pistons elsewhere, I’d agree. So for instance, don’t stop playing Prince, because he needs trade value so something can be gotten for him. But Wilkens is doing nothing for the Pistons. He might help get another win or two more than Daye. But wins are useless to the team right now. The off chance that playing Daye 30 mpg might get him back on track is worth trying for no other reason that it won’t cost the team anything else. If Singler were available, I might sing another tune.

By: tarsier

tarsier — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:19:48 +0000

The Pistons did contend without a superstar, proving it is possible. But that was the crazy exception, not the rule. It is a very difficult thing to do and basically only worked because Wallace and Billups were on Gortat-esque contracts. And it was in one of the most severe league-wide talent droughts. All the 90s stars were gone and it lasted until the 2003 draft class really bloomed. A superstar is the tried and true method. Now, if we could get McGee for say Jerebko, I’d love it. But with a team in the pits like the Pistons, you can’t trade away a chance at a superstar for McGee unless you really believe Knight or Monroe is destined for superstardom or you wanna take your really long odds to try to recapture 2004 Pistons magic. If that is the case, you better hope you can resign McGee for under $8M, Knight for under $6M, and Monroe for under $10M.

By: BAD BOYZ 810

BAD BOYZ 810 — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 05:25:39 +0000

Are you serious???? knight is no lower then 3rd or 4th in the rookie rankings,besides rubio knight is the only rookie to have double double. He won the head to head battle against all the rookies you named but his ream loss. We can’t forget that knight plays on a team with way less talent.

By: frankie d

frankie d — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 23:18:46 +0000

“So the differences between Collins and Frank as coaches hinges on the PT he gives Daye and Macklin……really?”
i wrote nothing of the sort. what i did write is there for everyone to read, but what you just indicated, is utterly false.
the proof is there for everyone to see. collins basically has turned his team around by playing young players. he’s been extremely paitent with them, even sticking with meeks as meeks went through a daye-like slump. not only did he keep playing meeks, but he kept starting him and meeks repayed him for his patience by putting his foot up detroit’s derriere with a 17 point 4th quarter explosion that helped philly beat detroit. that game broke his slump. collins method is a proven way of helping young players develop.
doing what frank is doing with daye is a proven way of stunting their development.
this statement makes no sense:
“Isn’t the question of whether or not to amnesty BG or CV by assessing their play a bigger question for the team at this point than assessing Daye and Macklin’s ability to contribute as of this moment?
Doesn’t it make more sense to play veterans at the beginning of the year when you are still fighting for something, when you know you are likely to not be fighting for anything but internal improvement the last couple of months of the year? ”
if joe d doesn’t know whether he will amnesty either player by this point, he’s a worse GM than i thought. whatever his decision, he clearly has enough evidence already to make an informed decision.
the idea that is doesn’t matter when daye or macklin play is equally nonsensical. there is a little thing called the trade deadline. hopefully you will have a good handle on your roster by that point. by that point you should know if you have an asset that you can turn over for something valuable; or whether you should dump a player you’re facing a contract issue on. as is the case with daye.
there is also the little thing about developing players who can actually win games for you. heaven knows it is a wild idea, but both macklin and daye just might be good enough to actually help the team win and the idea that you should remain in the dark about that possibility and keep relying on inadequate but safe vets boggles the mind.
macklin just might give the team 15 -20 minutes of rebounding and 5-10 points a game. he’s given tantalizing hints of being able to do so. daye just might start shooting the ball the way he has his entire career. both events would have a very positive impact on the team’s ability to win games. this fan thinks that other fans just might want to encourage that possibility, instead of getting a nice, fuzzy, secure feeling watching limited, old vets who really cannot play anymore stumble around the court.
dave mayo over at mlive gets it, and today he writes the best article i’ve seen on the daye situation. he basically distills the essence of the situation about as well as it can be done.
http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2012/01/detroit_pistons_need_to_discer.html