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Joe Dumars shortchanges stats to praise Greg Monroe and Brandon Knight

Joe Dumars, via Keith Langlois of Pistons.com on Greg Monroe and Brandon Knight:

“At the end of the day, that guy has to decide, every day he wakes up, that he wants to be great,” Dumars said. “I don’t think you can find that in any kind of testing or metrics or stat or anything else. He has to have it in him and those two guys have it in them.”

I agree that a burning desire for greatness is important, but at some point, that must be reflected in a player’s production. If Monroe and Knight don’t continue to improve – which will undoubtedly be tracked with the right metrics – Dumars’ perception of their desire will be irrelevant.

But that’s just me.


  • Jan 19, 20122:01 pm
    by Sean Corp


    To be fair to Dumars, I think he is speaking more about a quality a young player coming out of college and into the NBA used to have. Stats are stats, of course, but when you’re only working off of one year of college ball, it’s hard to sort the highly-touted men from the highly-touted boys.

    • Jan 19, 20122:14 pm
      by labatts


      That explains why he drafted Daye, then.

  • Jan 19, 20123:06 pm
    by L Boogie


    Daye was and is a complete Bust!! I remember when they drafted him, I was thinking I hope its not him, but with all of the media talks you knew it was him, but at the same time, I did not know of anyone else worthy of being a pick for us. Daye has lost his confidence, and he still is a defensive liability, he is still toooooo scrawny, no muscle, only height, and with his bg ass feet, which looks like weights, he is not quick a foot, he is too slow, we need to move him and Charlie; and Max and Gorden, they all have underperformed. I guess Lottery, or shall I say a top 5 pick in the lottery here we come; between washington and us, we will be among the top losers this year, along with minnesota, so I guess I have to grin and bear this embarrassment of basketball they are playing. I think high schoolers, better yet michigan state or michigan could beat the pistons right now, man oh man I am frustrated watching them play.

  • Jan 19, 20123:27 pm
    by Justin


    I’m sorry, but are you disappointed in Greg Monroe’s play? He’s improved a ton from last season to this one. He’s rebounding at a great level snatching 18 percent of all available boards, he’s averaging an impressive (for a big man) 3.3 assists a game, he’s shooting 55% from the floor and 81% from the line, and he’s at 18 and 10 for the season despite only playing 32 minutes a game.

    The only thing keeping him back from an all-star lock is his minutes and defense, although defense has rarely kept people out of the event. By advanced metrics he’s doing well — 24.5 PER, leading all centers, .191 WS per 48 minutes, and his adjusted +/- is okay but more games are needed for an accurate number.

    Greg Monroe is tracking as a young star center right now. Maybe not someone dominant, but an offensively gifted center you can build around.

  • Jan 19, 20125:00 pm
    by RyanK


    I’m with Joe D.  Stats don’t tell you everything you need to know about the quality of the player.  Each guy plays a role.  There’s no doubt in my mind we have many guys who can average over 20 points per game on this team.  But Stuckey, Bynum, Monroe, Gordon, Tay, don’t have that role…they don’t take the number of shot attempts needed to get to a 20 point average.
    Also, you’ll notice perimeter players who have a strong post scorer always have much better scoring percentages in that situation than without.  Teammates can have such an impact on this type of stat.
    Rebounding…if you play with Rodman, do you think your rebounding stats are going to be as strong as playing with Mugsy Boggs?
    I just don’t believe stats.  I believe what my eyes tell me are much more important.

  • Jan 19, 20128:17 pm
    by gmehl1977


    Anyone read this article at PASPN.net about Dumars?

  • Jan 20, 20126:59 am
    by Murph


    The other way in which Joe short-changed stats is by lumping Monroe and Knight together.  Statistically speaking, Monroe is having a phenomenal year, while Knight is not.

    Lumping Mornoe and Knight together is taking a huge leap of faith concerning Knight’s development.

    • Jan 20, 20129:25 am
      by Patrick Hayes


      Good point. It often feels like the Pistons don’t really know what they have in Monroe. He seems to get lumped into their “young core” talking points with Knight, Jerebko, Stuckey and Daye when Monroe is clearly head and shoulders above those guys.

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