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Greg Monroe continues to be Detroit’s point guard of the future

Detroit point guards Brandon Knight and Will Bynum combined for 1 assist and 8 turnovers in Monday’s 92-68 loss to Chicago. Center Greg Monroe finished with 6 assists and just one turnover, and if not for his presence, an already unwatchable offensive performance would’ve been truly embarrassing.

Lawrence Frank has understandably frequently talked about re-establishing the Pistons as a defense-first organization. Surprisingly, though, the Pistons are far closer to being competent on that end of the floor than on offense. The Pistons once again hung around for three quarters with Chicago because their defense contests shots and their big men, though undersized and often physically overmatched, generally fight opposing bigs for position inside. The Pistons are far from a good defensive team, but their effort makes them passable and much improved from last season.

The offense, though, is a wreck. As Dan pointed out after the Knicks loss, the Knight-Ben Gordon backcourt is just too erratic to succeed right now. Against the Knicks, the duo was both missing shots and being careless against the ball. Against Chicago, both guys shot it better, but they had four turnovers each. To Knight’s credit, he continued to make himself a presence on the boards, grabbing five. To Gordon’s credit, he continued to look to pass, collecting four assists. But the Pistons clearly need a stabilizing presence in their backcourt rotation. As much as I like Bynum, he’s no stabilizing presence either. Rodney Stuckey‘s game has holes in it, but he does take care of the ball. So does Tayshaun Prince. With Stuckey out and the Pistons forced to play Knight and Gordon big minutes together, Prince should have more responsibilities handling the ball (as much as it pains me to say that … Prince’s isos were certainly not exciting basketball to watch last year, but he did at the very least not turn it over much).

Once again, the only positive to come away with from another game is Monroe’s stellar play. To Frank’s credit, he’s said he wants Monroe to be the centerpiece of the offense, and he is making sure he gets touches. That’s an improvement from last season, when the Pistons went the entire season without anyone clearly knowing who the offense was supposed to be run through. In the third quarter, the only quarter when the Pistons had any fluidity on offense, Monroe’s passing and decision-making were the reasons why. Although Monroe’s development is fascinating to watch, Monroe alone isn’t enough to make this team watchable.

Jason Maxiell shot 12 times

Maxiell has had some flashes this season where he looked like a respectable rotation player again. Tonight wasn’t one of those moments. He shot 1-for-12 against the Bulls. He had only shot 31 times in eight games before tonight. Jonas Jerebko wasn’t much better, shooting just 2-for-8. He also launched a couple contested jumpers, which just isn’t his game. Carlos Boozer once again was too much for anyone the Pistons tried to guard him with.

Kyle Korver, defensive stopper?

The Bulls put Korver in in the first half and Pistons broadcasters Greg Kelser and George Blaha pointed out that the Pistons would attack him. Vincent Goodwill tweeted that they should go after him. Then … it just kind of never happened. Gordon took him off the dribble once, then the Pistons just didn’t go back to that matchup in the second quarter. When Korver was guarding Austin Daye later in the second, his ankle was clearly bothering him because he couldn’t beat Korver off the dribble. Daye had one of his better games as a pro with Korver guarding him last season.


  • Jan 9, 201211:20 pm
    by Steve K


    “Monroe alone isn’t enough to make this team watchable”

    Indeed. That 4th quarter was the worst Pistons’ basketball I’ve ever seen. Just incredible. In fact, I have a hard time remembering any NBA team that was that bad. It was beyond embarrassing.

    And then the fans erupt when Scalabrine scores? The fans were laughing at them. Maybe the players will use it as motivation to improve. Or maybe they’ll just collect a paycheck and move on. At this point, either scenario seems possible.

    • Jan 9, 201211:28 pm
      by Patrick Hayes


      That was certainly embarrassing. But it’s not even like I can get mad at the effort. They’re playing hard. They’re just nowhere near good enough to be competitive with a team like Chicago. The Bulls, once again, didn’t even play very well (Deng was 2-12, Korver 2-7 and Noah didn’t even attempt a shot) and still easily won by double figures.

      • Jan 10, 20128:41 am
        by Steve K


        Despite knowing this season would be a disaster, it was still pretty frustrating watching all those turnovers. You’re probably right that the players do seem to be trying…

        But Brandon Knight passing the ball the guy in the 3rd row?
        Austin Daye – at one point the team’s truest shooter – launching an air-ball from 18 feet? 

        Last night was a special case of awful. In the 4th quarter at least.

  • Jan 9, 201211:58 pm
    by Jodi Jezz


    I just don’t know what to say bout our Pistons…We played a good game until the last quarter then we just couldn’t make any shots…smh! I think we’ll win against the Mavs tomorrow though…

    • Jan 10, 20121:14 am
      by gmehl1977


      Yeah right. Dirk is licking his lips right now. I think he might go for something between 40 and 50.

      • Jan 10, 20128:49 am
        by tarsier


        As pointed out, Detroit’s defense isn’t that bad. It’s their O that has really sucked of late.

  • Jan 10, 201212:19 am
    by Daye and Knight


    Our team is a complete failure. Greg Monroe is our best player…every team in the NBA has a better go to player outside of the Bobcats and honestly D.J has been pretty good so there’s an arguement that even they have a better player than our best, and thats not a knock on Monroe but for us to be excited about Monroe being our “go to” guy is pretty sad. I wonder how the starting lineup will look like towards the end of the season if we leave the team as is…Monroe is the only sure thing right now

    • Jan 10, 20121:22 am
      by Mark


      Not really getting your point. How many teams in the league have Centers avg about 16 pts, 10 rebs, and 3 asts/gm on 55% FG and are consistent low post scorers???

      Monroe is better than a lot of #1 options around the league, as low post scoring centers are rare breeds and trump any guard avg 20/gm on jumpshots.

    • Jan 10, 20128:57 am
      by Patrick Hayes


      “Greg Monroe is our best player…every team in the NBA has a better go to player”

      Monroe looks like a potential 20 pts/10 reb/5 assist guy if he keeps improving. Also, he’s only 21. Just about any team in the league would be extremely excited at having that as their go-to player. He definitely needs better talent around him, but the way he’s playing, I can certainly see Monroe being the best or second best player on a contender some day.

  • Jan 10, 201212:20 am
    by Gregoire


    At the Moment I can´t really see what Joe D wants to do with this Team. It seems like he has no real Plan for the Roster. It´s clear that the Team lacks a true Center since we now all know that Monroe is best suited to play the 4. Despite landing Howard via free Agency  (after amnestying CV) what seems pretty much unlikely and we all know it won´t happen because Orlando will trade him to a team that he wants to join and will resign with, Joe D´s moves this offseason just don´t make sense…why give Prince 6,5 Mio instead of going after a Big? Why give Jonas 4,5 Mio (he could´ve signed him for 2 Mio as well) just to be the next Max??? He hustles just like Max did it, ok he surely has better 3-Point Range but he hasn´t this emphatic momentum changing dunks or blocks that max has. If he sees Jerebko as his SF of the future then this signing maybe ok but then he should also get Minutes at the 3 in my opinion…for me JJ just isn´t a Big on a Contending Team, what it´s pretty much about Joe!!!

    • Jan 10, 20128:55 am
      by tarsier


      “the Team lacks a true Center since we now all know that Monroe is best suited to play the 4.”

      Allow me to disagree and say that at least one of “we all” is perfectly content with Monroe at C. Besides, if Monroe is more of a PF, that’s because 4s and 5s these days are pretty much the same. If you wanna argue how differnt they are, then I don’t like Monroe at the PF because I don’t know that he has the mobility to keep up with all the agile, deep shooting 4s in the league (a much more common breed than a C who can use superior size to sominate Greg).

      • Jan 10, 20128:58 am
        by Patrick Hayes


        “Allow me to disagree and say that at least one of “we all” is perfectly content with Monroe at C. Besides, if Monroe is more of a PF, that’s because 4s and 5s these days are pretty much the same.”

        Agree 100 percent with this. Detroit needs more talent in its frontcourt. It doesn’t matter whether that talent is at the four or five.

  • Jan 10, 201212:25 am
    by ryan


    You had to figure that this would be a whoopin’ Chicago had just lost to an inferior team by giving an inferior effort they’ve got a tough leader and a tough coach. So this was their get well game and they just ran us over. Most of that team was together last year, their best players are much better than our best players, their roster fits together well and we were missing one of our better players. They’re on an entirely different level than us gearing up to win the title this year or next or possibly both so given all of that I’m okay with the loss.

    As long as we keep working and learning, which I think that we are. That’s what matters now. One of my worst fears was that we’d come out winning and given management the impression that our roster was okay as is. It’s not Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva need to go, we need to get bigger and more athletic, we also need to pick up some shooters. Point is there’s a world of difference between where we are and where we want to go. Our roster and coaching staff are making slow steps in the right direction and hopefully soon our front office will make some intelligent long term steps to move us further in that direction.

  • Jan 10, 20121:17 am
    by Mark


    Not sure how you give Frank any credit for utilizing Monroe when he only got 9 shots to Maxiell’s 12.

    Monroe is CLEARLY the Pistons best and only consistent player on offense, which makes the fact that he is 2nd on the team in FGA’s so mind boggling.

    And his 11 FGA’s/gm is the same as about 5 other players on the team. Tay, Stuckey, Gordon, Jonas, and Knight all avg 10-13 FGA’s/gm. Clear indicator that there are no defined roles on the team. If there were, Monroe being the only good player amongst a bunch of garbage would have twice as many shots a game, and be the clea #1 option, not an equal amount as all these bums around him.

    • Jan 10, 20128:30 am
      by David


      Half the shots Max took were clearly not plays designed for him. Loved those missed put-back dunks too.

    • Jan 10, 20129:00 am
      by Patrick Hayes


      “Not sure how you give Frank any credit for utilizing Monroe when he only got 9 shots to Maxiell’s 12.”

      It’s not just about shots with Monroe. It’s about touches. Yeah, the Pistons need him to score. But part of his strength is creating/facilitating good shots by others with his passing ability. Last night, he touched the ball a lot on offense, he scored efficiently and he set up a lot of good looks for others, many of which were just not finished.

  • Jan 10, 20122:16 am
    by frankie d


    frank blew the game when he pulled monroe with a couple of minutes to go in the 3rd quarter.
    and held him out almost 4 minutes into the 4th quarter.
    it was a close game when he pulled him,and by the time he put him back in it was a blowout.
    game over.
    he’s their best player.
    he was the best facilitator on the team.
    how do you keep him off the court for that long?
    especially considering that there is the break between quarters.
    seemed like frank has a rigid rotation that he essentially sticks with – take a guy out at that point and reinsert him with 8 minutes to go – regardless of what is happening in the game.
    detroit may have lost the game, but frank made it a lot easier by removing monroe when no one on chicago had shown that they could guard him.
    btw, he’s…what…21 years old…i think he can play 44 minuites or so of basketball.  its a freaking BB game, and the team had a day off.

    • Jan 10, 20124:50 am
      by Jakob Eich


      The season has 66 games in an incredibly short period of time. You need to give big men like Monroe some rest, especially in a game we weren’t going to win in the first place. With Monroe on the court we would have scored maybe in the mid-80s, but the Bulss probably had three more gears to beat us, it wouldn’t have made a difference.

      • Jan 10, 20126:05 am
        by Murph


        Agreed.  What we don’t want to do is get Monroe hurt, like Jerebko last year.  Frank should continue to play Mornoe a reasonable number of minutes, take the losses, move up in the draft, draft another big man…and come back next year.

        There was no way we were going to beat the Bulls in Chicago anyway.

        • Jan 10, 20128:26 am
          by frankie d


          monroe only played 32 minutes. even if he’d played the last 4 minutes -he didn’t as he sat during garbage time – he still could have played more minutes without fear of getting hurt or exposing himself to injury. he’s a young guy.
          i don’t think that fear is a legitimate one in this instance. if the team had been in the middle of one of those back to back to backs, maybe. but if the team is close to chicago on the road, with a legitimate chance of winning a game, playing monroe more than 32 – or 36 – minutes cannot reasonably be said to be dangerous for a 21 year old, second year player. especially since the team had not played in a couple of days.
          i think that frank just blew it tonight and his taking monroe out and most importantly, not putting him back in soon enough was crucial tonight. if he lets him sit the last couple of minutes in the 3rd and puts him in at the beginning of the 4th, the team could have stayed close and who knows, maybe even have threatened to win the game.
          coaching decisions of that sort matter. tonight was one of those times when it definitely mattered a lot. they may have still lost the game, but sitting the one guy who is having a good offensive game and keeping your team in the game at the most critical part of the game, as it is slipping away is just mindbogglingly dumb and incredibly tone-deaf.
          one wonders if that tone-deafness about handling substitutions is one of the things that contributed to frank’s record 16 game losing streak and his generally mediocre/poor last few years with the nets.

          • Jan 10, 20128:59 am
            by Murph

            Frankie…I’ve kind of given up on this season.  I think our best move is to tank it, and go for the highest pick possible.

            Also, I was not in favor of hiring Frank in the first place.  But really, with this roster, there’s nothing Frank can do.  There were no strings that Frank could have pulled that would have gotten us a win over the Bulls on the road last night.  And there’re no strings that he can pull to make us a decent team.

            So I’m going to reserve judgement on Frank’s coaching abilities, and give him a free pass for this season.  If Frank cannot make any improvements by next season, then let’s get that revolving door working again, and bring in another coach (along with a new GM).

    • Jan 10, 20129:01 am
      by Patrick Hayes


      “frank blew the game when he pulled monroe with a couple of minutes to go in the 3rd quarter.”

      That’s kind of ridiculous. It’s not like Detroit ever held a lead when Monroe was in the game. They played one competitive quarter out of four.

      • Jan 10, 20129:21 am
        by frankie d


        not so.  they were close at the end of the 3rd.  monroe had had a very good 3rd quarter and he was really rolling.  both he and the team had a great deal of momentum at that point.  what had been a 13 point lead had been whittled down to 7, largely because of monroe’s play.  
        he gets taken out and the game baloons out of control as the guards go on their turnover spree.
        no, they had not held a lead, but they stayed close and were within striking distance.   and in the nba, staying close enough going into the last 8 minutes or so of a game can lead to all sorts of strange things…like a road win against one of the league’s best teams.
        i guess i am just silly enough to think that the team has a legitimate shot to win some games and if a player like monroe gets hot enough that the team might be able to ride him to a win.
        geez, i guess i’m just naive enough to think that the team just might have a player in monroe who is good enough to put a team on his back and take it to a win every once in a while. 
        gosh, i guess it really doen’t matter who the coach puts on the floor and when he puts them in or takes them out.
        silly me for thinking that it does matter.  never mind…

        • Jan 10, 20129:29 am
          by Patrick Hayes


          Well, it’s not like he sat on the bench for some egregious amount of time.

          Monroe left with 1:32 to go in the third. He came back in with 8:53 to go in the fourth. Chicago had scored just seven points in their 18-3 fourth quarter run at that point. It’s not like the game got out of hand when Monroe was on the bench. Monroe was on the court for 15 of the 18 points scored in that run. So essentially, Monroe got a rest that amounted to four minutes of game time and the lead was only 12 — the range it was in most of the game — when he came back in. The Pistons were still within striking distance at that point.

          • Jan 10, 20129:55 am
            by frankie d

            lots of times it is not how long a player is out, but when player substitutions happen.
            when monroe was taken out, detroit had a real sense of momentum, and it really looked like they were in the game and might have a chance to steal one.
            as you noted in one of your earlier posts, they weren’t even playing that well, which is exactly when a team like detroit might be able to steal a game like last night’s game.
            the team was rolling, monroe looked like he might be on the verge of a triple double, and then he sits with the team within 7 points.
            at that point, the guards take over the offense and we saw what happened. as dick vitale might say, turnover city. one after another after another. the game had been taken out of the hands of the team’s most effective player, and put in the hands of guards who were having a particularly rough time handling the ball. that negative momentum helped take the chicago lead up to 12 points by the time monroe came back into the game and he never got back into the same role he’d played before he left in the 3rd. instead of being the offense’s “hub”, he basically ended up watching gordon and bynum and knight kick the ball all over the court. he took one more shot the entire game, after sitting in the 3rd.
            imho, the better course would have been to give him that rest at the end of the 3rd, take advantage of the break between quarters for a couple more minutes of rest and then get him back on the court at the start of the 4th quarter. simply, the team needed his decision-making, as no one else was even close as far as helping the offense function well.
            he had 6 assists and only one turnover. gordon was next in assists with 4, but he also had 4 turnovers and it looked like he had more.
            in real time, i just couldn’t believe that he didn’t get him back into the game ASAP, after making certain that he wasn’t winded. when a guy is hot like monroe was hot, and a team is as shaky as chicago was last night, they should have tried to ride monroe to a win.
            he didn’t.

          • Jan 10, 201210:15 am
            by frankie d

            i loved chuck daly’s approach.  
            the reason his pistons always had different playes lead them in scoring from game to game was that daly would ride a hot hand.  if a guy was hot, he’d keep feeding that player and keep feeding him until that player’s arm fell off.  
            i would have like to have seen frank do that with monroe.  just kept riding him, feeding him the ball, until he stopped producing.

  • Jan 10, 20125:04 am
    by Jakob Eich


    I don’t share the sentiment some of you have that Monroe needs to take more shots. He is very much a part of the offense, if you just look at FGA/G you don’t know a lot about basketball. He had six assists, if we had players who could actually hit a jumper or finish at the rim he could have had 10+ assists more than once this year. Monroe also gets quite a few hockey assists. It’s right that we are a much better team with him on the court and can stay fairly competitive even without Stuckey. Stuck is clearly our second best offensive player right now so we really need to get him back.

    Maxey taking 12 shots is just way too many, but he was -8 compared to JJs -16 and both played about 24 minutes. We weren’t able to score anyway, and we didn’t really have a chance in the first place. I didn’t write down his shot attempts, whether they were missed lay-ups or tough shots, I only remember the missed put-back. It’s not Maxey’s, or Frank’s, or anyone’s fault besides the one that put the team together, Joe Dumars. I’ve really tried to support Dumars, but I looked at the team yesterday and though which players do we have acquired via trade or free agency that stayed on the roster for more than a year? The answer is Ben Gordon (Wilkins hasn’t been here long and probably won’t be)!!!!  Just think about that! Our entire roster contains mid to low first-round picks, second rounders, and two lottery picks in what is considered two weak draft classes. Granted, Monroe was a good pick-up for our team and I really like having him around. @ Laser, that wasn’t meant to credit Joe. Joe keeps all of the players he drafted and almost never makes trades to upgrade the talent or get salary cap. I like loyalty especially in a business like the NBA, but I think Joe is desperately trying to hang on to the past. I’m surprised he let Hamilton leave, they however seemed to have been fighting for years. We need moves investing in our future. I hate to repeat myself, anyone on the roster should be on the trading block (except for Monroe, Knight, and JJ) and see if you can get something in return. Call it tanking, but it’d be the right business decision right now. Get a few D-Leaguers for the rest of the year and see what the draft brings us.

    • Jan 10, 20127:09 am
      by swish22


      You hit it on the head with Dumars.   He’s rewarded way too many guys from the past instead of thinking pistons future first! 
      Monroes shot starting to remind me of the  soft shooting  Bob Lanier!
        Thought the effort was excellent  and Frank’s intelligent barking from the sideline all game does help but how long will the players play real hard as the losses mount up!  Knight needs to push tempo a little more I think and I agree we need to use Prince  at the 2 to help our length on the floor! 

      Why was JJ pulled out in the first couple of minutes??  Wasn’t watching at the time!?? 

      • Jan 10, 20128:20 am
        by Jeremy


        Swish, I have said the same exact thing about Bob Lanier – in fact asked Keith Langlois on the Pistons.com during last season if Monroe’s potential was “Bob Lanier.” At that point in time he obviously said too early to tell, but they are the same size, both left handed, and both great rebounders. I’d love to see Monroe develop a classic 1970′s hook shot as his go to move though.

        All I can really say, and this is based off the few games Stuckey has missed due to his groin, is this is what this team would have looked like Stuckey if he had walked – only it would have been all season. Knight seems reluctant to penetrate and that is what we need out of Stuckey. Hell, next to Monroe, Stuckey is probably the best scorer in the paint on this team.

        • Jan 10, 20129:04 am
          by Patrick Hayes


          “Knight seems reluctant to penetrate”

          That’s not really his game based on his year in college. He’s more comfortable in the mid-range. Maybe he’ll develop the ability to get all the way to the rim, but he’s not as athletic or as explosive a finisher as some of the other new-breed PGs.

        • Jan 10, 20129:10 am
          by frankie d


          monroe definitely reminds me of lanier in lots of ways, though lanier was even slicker and a more polished offensive player. remember, lanier won the league’s only one-on-one title the year they had a competition. he was a phenomenal offensive weapon.
          the one thing he does not have is “the dobber’s” strength. lanier was incredibly strong. lanier’s combination of brute strength, bulk, and finesse is what made him so special. once, at the old silverdome, i saw him literally move campy russell, a small forward, out of the way with one arm, while they were struggling for position under the boards. lanier looked like he was doing a breaststroke, and he literally just took russell and swiped him out of his way, moved him about 3-4 feet, like he was pushing a baby away…like it was nothing. while he was holding another player off with the other arm. russell was six-seven, about 225 pound, and he looked like a little kid against lanier.
          monroe doesn’t have that kind of strength.

  • Jan 10, 20125:04 am
    by Jakob Eich


    Ben Wallace shouldn’t be traded as well, sorry I missed him!

  • Jan 10, 20126:03 am
    by vic


    these last couple games give me a lot more respect for stuckey. his defence is a necessity for us as long as rose is in the league. all we need is a couple more bigs in the draft. one with a 7 4 wingspan and one 250 pounds or moew, both with TALENT

    • Jan 10, 20129:05 am
      by Patrick Hayes


      Defense wasn’t the problem last night, and anyway, Knight has been fairly solid defensively. Not much Stuckey or anyone else can do with Rose. The major problem right now, one that Stuckey helps address, is turnovers. Stuckey is the only Piston guard who takes care of the ball reasonably well.

  • Jan 10, 20128:00 am
    by Steve K


    Regarding Monroe, if he keeps this up, he might just get an All-star nod this year.
    He’s the third highest scoring center in the East, behind Bargnani and Howard.

    Obviously, Howard is a lock, and if Bargnani continues to put up 24/game, he’ll make it too. After that, Monroe will have to fend off Hibbert, Horford, and Noah… and hope that the committee takes pity on the poor Piston “Center” with the dreadful supporting cast.

    • Jan 10, 20129:06 am
      by Patrick Hayes


      His numbers will be there, but it’s really hard for a guy on a losing team to get picked for an All-Star team. Love made it last year, but needed David Stern to add him as an injury replacement. I’d like to see it, but guys like Horford and Noah will get more consideration simply because they’re on winning teams.

    • Jan 10, 20123:37 pm
      by tarsier


      24 ppg won’t get Bargs into the all-star game. He put up 21.5 last year and wasn’t even close. What could get him in would be continuing to shoot over 50% from the field and pulling down 7 boards a night. This season, he is looking like a Brook Lopez with 3 point range.

      Also, if Bogut stops missing games, he is a real strong candidate as well. As for the winning thing, that matters to fans, but it matters a lot more to coaches. And there is no way Monroe supplants the fans’ vote for Howard so he is highly unlikely to sneak into the all-star game, deserved or not (there don’t have to be 3 Cs)

      One more thing, on merit, East all-star centers so far this season would be Howard and Hawes. Hawes is kicking ass with a 13/10/3/2/1 line on 63% shooting on a 6-2 team that has played considerably better than 6-2 thus far.

  • Jan 10, 20121:24 pm
    by Max


    I hate to admit it but a fully agree with Frankie D regarding Monroe’s PT last night and how it wrecked their momentum and while I’m a big supporter of Frank, he doesn’t keep a playing in who is rolling like Daly did.  Sometimes, a player hits a three right before he is taken out.

    • Jan 10, 20123:43 pm
      by tarsier


      Of course, there are volumes out there debating whether players indeed “get rolling” or “get a hot hand.” Having a good night can continue because of the reasons for a good night (favorable matchup, no soreness/tiredness, play inspiring self-confidence, etc) but generally, a player is no more or less likely to hit a shot after hitting his last 5 than after missing his last 5 and those reasons I posited earlier are just things that will be said in a recap (along with “getting a hot hand”) to explain why a player outperformed his typical standards.

      • Jan 10, 20124:56 pm
        by Jakob Eich


        Why would you want him to play 40 minutes? Maybe he was tired, we don’t know. I’m not a big fan of blaming Frank in this situation. He hasn’t done anything significantly wrong. He had a long losing streak with a very bad roster and apart from that he’s actually been fairly successful. We shouldn’t get worked up over playing time. This year it doesn’t really matter. We weren’t going to win in the first place.

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