Comments on: Greg Monroe and Ben Wallace give Pistons nothing inside in loss to Rockets http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/ Your Go-To Source For Pistons Coverage Wed, 19 Jun 2013 16:32:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: frankie d http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/comment-page-1/#comment-44888 frankie d Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:02:03 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/#comment-44888 dead on description of the problem with BG.   when he's on, it's great, but when he's off, his style of play is deadly to an offense. by the way, when i was talking about monroe "struggling" with mullens, i was not even discussing how he played him defensively.  i was referring strictly to how he was able to attack mullens offensively. dead on description of the problem with BG.  
when he’s on, it’s great, but when he’s off, his style of play is deadly to an offense.
by the way, when i was talking about monroe “struggling” with mullens, i was not even discussing how he played him defensively.  i was referring strictly to how he was able to attack mullens offensively.

]]> By: frankie d http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/comment-page-1/#comment-44887 frankie d Wed, 18 Jan 2012 21:59:22 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/#comment-44887 mullens blocked or thwarted monroe on a couple of the drives that he made, with ease over bogut. monroe adjusted well, but he found he couldn't simply dribble-drive around and through mullens as he had against bogut. i call that "struggling".   he still had a good game, but it was a struggle.  i just checked the play by play on the game and he missed 5 layups when mullen was guarding him, and two shots blocked.  he was making those layups against bogut, but it clearly looked like mullens affected the way he was playing on the interior.  i actually think it speaks well for him, as he had to figure out different ways to attack mullens, other than just using his dribble and ability to put the ball on the floor to get around him. i thought he was strangely passive against dalembert, hesitant to take an outside jumper and really clueless about how to attack him.  it was almost as if he had not incorporated whatever lessons he had learned while playing mullens.  i don't know why this is even controversial.  monroe is not the most athletic big guy.  he uses stealth and skill and timing to get his shot off and in the basket.  long, athletic big men with good timing will give him trouble, if they are patient defensively and don't get faked out by monroe's trickery.  monroe isn't the only earth-bound center to have that kind of problem.  usually guys like him are able to figure out ways to attack certain defenders of that sort.   he did it against mullens, despite struggling. he didn't do it against dalembert. mullens blocked or thwarted monroe on a couple of the drives that he made, with ease over bogut.
monroe adjusted well, but he found he couldn’t simply dribble-drive around and through mullens as he had against bogut.
i call that “struggling”.  
he still had a good game, but it was a struggle.  i just checked the play by play on the game and he missed 5 layups when mullen was guarding him, and two shots blocked.  he was making those layups against bogut, but it clearly looked like mullens affected the way he was playing on the interior.  i actually think it speaks well for him, as he had to figure out different ways to attack mullens, other than just using his dribble and ability to put the ball on the floor to get around him.
i thought he was strangely passive against dalembert, hesitant to take an outside jumper and really clueless about how to attack him.  it was almost as if he had not incorporated whatever lessons he had learned while playing mullens. 
i don’t know why this is even controversial.  monroe is not the most athletic big guy.  he uses stealth and skill and timing to get his shot off and in the basket.  long, athletic big men with good timing will give him trouble, if they are patient defensively and don’t get faked out by monroe’s trickery.  monroe isn’t the only earth-bound center to have that kind of problem.  usually guys like him are able to figure out ways to attack certain defenders of that sort.  
he did it against mullens, despite struggling.
he didn’t do it against dalembert.

]]> By: Mark http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/comment-page-1/#comment-44886 Mark Wed, 18 Jan 2012 21:56:55 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/#comment-44886 huh? Monroe struggled against Mullens? He had 19 pts, 9 rebs, and 5 asts, outproducing Mullens in every category. Mullens did nothing defensively to hinder Monroe at all, imo. Where Greg struggled in that game, if at all, was defensively, guarding Mullens out on the perimeter and in transition. But that is normal for a true Center who lives in the paint to struggle guarding bigs out on the perimeter and in transition. Shaq, Howard, any true paint Center struggles defending bigs like that. Dalembert is a great defender too, and does well against a lot of great big men. I don't think you can make definitive statement that Monroe struggles offensively against long/athetic bigs. He gave Tyson Chandler fits during stretches of the NY game, and has done well against pretty much whatever type of big man he's faced since coming into the league. I tend to think it was more Big Ben being out there with him, and Dalembert always having help behind him, cheating off of Ben, that gave Monroe trouble last night. You could see everytime he attacked the basket both bigs were there waiting for him. If Jonas was in there, one of those bigs would be chasing him around on the perimeter, giving Monroe 1on1 at the basket. Monroe's perfect compliment is a 7 foot, shot-blocking, defensive anchor, who can also step out and make jumpshots from the perimeter. With Ben, you get the shot-blocking defensive anchor, but no jumpshot. With Jonas you get the jumpshots on the perimeter, but no shot-blocker/defensive anchor. You dont have both in one, so its pick/chose. Seeing as our defense is going to suck with/without Ben, and Monroe's greatest strength is offense, not defense, it makes sense to me to go with the guy right now who is going to help Monroe's offense the best, which is JJ. In other words,Ben's little bit of difference defensively is not great enough to warrant the huge drop off offensively we get with him in the lineup. Not only do you get nothing from Ben on offense, but he basically causes the the guy to get nothing either, because the defense then doubles Monroe and he gets shut down as well. Ironic thing is Scola had a bad game anyways, and dont think it was because of Ben. Probably could've gone with JJ, and then maybe Monroe has another 20 pt game, and we would've won. huh? Monroe struggled against Mullens?

He had 19 pts, 9 rebs, and 5 asts, outproducing Mullens in every category.

Mullens did nothing defensively to hinder Monroe at all, imo.

Where Greg struggled in that game, if at all, was defensively, guarding Mullens out on the perimeter and in transition. But that is normal for a true Center who lives in the paint to struggle guarding bigs out on the perimeter and in transition. Shaq, Howard, any true paint Center struggles defending bigs like that.

Dalembert is a great defender too, and does well against a lot of great big men. I don’t think you can make definitive statement that Monroe struggles offensively against long/athetic bigs. He gave Tyson Chandler fits during stretches of the NY game, and has done well against pretty much whatever type of big man he’s faced since coming into the league.

I tend to think it was more Big Ben being out there with him, and Dalembert always having help behind him, cheating off of Ben, that gave Monroe trouble last night. You could see everytime he attacked the basket both bigs were there waiting for him. If Jonas was in there, one of those bigs would be chasing him around on the perimeter, giving Monroe 1on1 at the basket.

Monroe’s perfect compliment is a 7 foot, shot-blocking, defensive anchor, who can also step out and make jumpshots from the perimeter.

With Ben, you get the shot-blocking defensive anchor, but no jumpshot. With Jonas you get the jumpshots on the perimeter, but no shot-blocker/defensive anchor. You dont have both in one, so its pick/chose.

Seeing as our defense is going to suck with/without Ben, and Monroe’s greatest strength is offense, not defense, it makes sense to me to go with the guy right now who is going to help Monroe’s offense the best, which is JJ.

In other words,Ben’s little bit of difference defensively is not great enough to warrant the huge drop off offensively we get with him in the lineup. Not only do you get nothing from Ben on offense, but he basically causes the the guy to get nothing either, because the defense then doubles Monroe and he gets shut down as well.

Ironic thing is Scola had a bad game anyways, and dont think it was because of Ben. Probably could’ve gone with JJ, and then maybe Monroe has another 20 pt game, and we would’ve won.

]]> By: Mr.Blockedshot http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/comment-page-1/#comment-44853 Mr.Blockedshot Wed, 18 Jan 2012 18:48:06 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/#comment-44853 I was really pissed off after not getting any production from our bigs and Mancklin having a nap in the bench. I am really wondering what it takes to Frank to start playing him more. Maybe one or two injuries? Maybe losing by 20 with 2 minutes left? Wallace went scoreless, Maxiell was awful  and Monroe was overplayed by the Rockets bigs. And then...as a result...and losing almost by 20...you play Macklin 1:50 minutes..wow, that´s what I call developing minutes... I was really pissed off after not getting any production from our bigs and Mancklin having a nap in the bench. I am really wondering what it takes to Frank to start playing him more. Maybe one or two injuries? Maybe losing by 20 with 2 minutes left? Wallace went scoreless, Maxiell was awful  and Monroe was overplayed by the Rockets bigs. And then…as a result…and losing almost by 20…you play Macklin 1:50 minutes..wow, that´s what I call developing minutes…

]]> By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/comment-page-1/#comment-44841 Laser Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:08:24 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/#comment-44841 I stopped giving a FUCK about 6 straight ECFs when Dumars turned every single asset this team had (and we had many) into liabilities. He managed his way to a great roster with a small handful of very good and fortunate moves, and he managed his way into the gutter with a big handful of horrendous decisions. The team is worse and has a bleaker future now than the team he inherited, so his rollercoaster ride as a GM currently has us at a significant loss. I stopped giving a FUCK about 6 straight ECFs when Dumars turned every single asset this team had (and we had many) into liabilities. He managed his way to a great roster with a small handful of very good and fortunate moves, and he managed his way into the gutter with a big handful of horrendous decisions. The team is worse and has a bleaker future now than the team he inherited, so his rollercoaster ride as a GM currently has us at a significant loss.

]]> By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/comment-page-1/#comment-44840 Laser Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:04:37 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/#comment-44840 Agreed. I'm ambivalent about playing Wallace at all. He provides nostalgia and a good example of work ethic, but he's a lame duck. Since the playoffs are already a complete delusion, the team has nothing tangible to gain from playing him at all. Agreed. I’m ambivalent about playing Wallace at all. He provides nostalgia and a good example of work ethic, but he’s a lame duck. Since the playoffs are already a complete delusion, the team has nothing tangible to gain from playing him at all.

]]> By: KNIGHT and STUCKEY http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/comment-page-1/#comment-44827 KNIGHT and STUCKEY Wed, 18 Jan 2012 15:39:44 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/#comment-44827 @Swish22 Its hard to make your teammates better when you get them open shots and they don't make them.  I think Monroe is getting so many assists right now because everyone cuts to the hole when he has it.  Know if we can get that to happen when Knight and Stuckey have the ball their assists would go up too.  Those guys should be averaging way more then 5 dimes a game, its this slow offense.  This isn't 2004, lets change up the offense people!! @Swish22
Its hard to make your teammates better when you get them open shots and they don’t make them.  I think Monroe is getting so many assists right now because everyone cuts to the hole when he has it.  Know if we can get that to happen when Knight and Stuckey have the ball their assists would go up too.  Those guys should be averaging way more then 5 dimes a game, its this slow offense.  This isn’t 2004, lets change up the offense people!!

]]> By: vic http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/comment-page-1/#comment-44824 vic Wed, 18 Jan 2012 15:00:12 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/#comment-44824 we were doomed in the paint either way, with Dalembert stronger than Monroe, and Scolastronger than JJ.We just need a 5 so we can push Moose to 4, and JJ to 3. Our perimeter players were actually ok stat - wise. We just have a big whole against real 5s we were doomed in the paint either way, with Dalembert stronger than Monroe, and Scolastronger than JJ.We just need a 5 so we can push Moose to 4, and JJ to 3. Our perimeter players were actually ok stat – wise. We just have a big whole against real 5s

]]> By: Marvin Jones http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/comment-page-1/#comment-44823 Marvin Jones Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:55:27 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/#comment-44823 Swish I disagree,  Stuckey has show improvement every year, he's assisting much better than when he first came into the league; he's running the offense, looking for cutters and actually penetrating and dumping off or passing out, things he never did as a rookie; so to say he's shown zero improvement in making others better is simply not true. I happen to like Stuckey coming off the bench subbing out who ever is not having a great game either at the 1 or 2. I have watched 100% of the games and Stuckey, when healthy which he's not now, is a much better defender than Gordon and he does put forth the effort. The groin is still bothering him and maybe that's why you seem to think he's not giving it his all. The problem with BG is that he's actually not a catch and shoot guard, he's a catch and dribble into a rhythm and shoot guard which somtimes leaves him taking contested shots instead of open ones and it kills the point guards assist numbers.  Swish I disagree,  Stuckey has show improvement every year, he’s assisting much better than when he first came into the league; he’s running the offense, looking for cutters and actually penetrating and dumping off or passing out, things he never did as a rookie; so to say he’s shown zero improvement in making others better is simply not true. I happen to like Stuckey coming off the bench subbing out who ever is not having a great game either at the 1 or 2. I have watched 100% of the games and Stuckey, when healthy which he’s not now, is a much better defender than Gordon and he does put forth the effort. The groin is still bothering him and maybe that’s why you seem to think he’s not giving it his all. The problem with BG is that he’s actually not a catch and shoot guard, he’s a catch and dribble into a rhythm and shoot guard which somtimes leaves him taking contested shots instead of open ones and it kills the point guards assist numbers. 

]]> By: neutes http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/comment-page-1/#comment-44820 neutes Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:15:17 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/01/greg-monroe-and-ben-wallace-give-pistons-nothing-inside-in-loss-to-rockets/#comment-44820 but maxiell can't rebound, and you need the ball to score. not that i'm endorsing starting wallace, but the arguments for anyone else have just as many flaws. i'd just go back to JJ there isn't much that can be done unless or until CV gets thrown into the mix, if that ever happens. seems like a weird situation there. but maxiell can’t rebound, and you need the ball to score. not that i’m endorsing starting wallace, but the arguments for anyone else have just as many flaws. i’d just go back to JJ there isn’t much that can be done unless or until CV gets thrown into the mix, if that ever happens. seems like a weird situation there.

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