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Brandon Knight and Ben Gordon sink Pistons against Knicks

Explaining what defines a contender, Joe Dumars once listed guard play first.

Unfortunately, the Pistons’ guard play Saturday showed how far the team remains from contending – even for the lowest position a team can contend for in the NBA, a playoff berth.

Detroit’s starting backcourt – Brandon Knight and Ben Gordon – was erratic, reckless and sloppy in a 103-80 loss to the Knicks. Their off-target shots and poor ball control hampered the Pistons’ offense, which shot 38 percent on 2-pointers, and enabled the Knicks’ offense, which scored torched Detroit via the fastbreak.

For Knight, it’s understandable. For Gordon, unbearable.

Although it concerns me Knight (7-of-19, boosted by a couple garbage-time baskets, and three turnovers) hasn’t played highly efficiently either at Kentucky or with the Pistons, I’m not freaking out about it. It would be reassuring if he played with a bit more savvy, but I get it. He’s a 20-year-old rookie.

Gordon, though, is in his eighth year. He has nights like this – 5-of-12 with nine(!) turnovers – far too often.

Neither Knight’s nor Gordon’s numbers look especially terrible, aside from Gordon’s nine(!) turnovers. But they rarely attacked or pressured the defense, often spotting up around the perimeter.* In the limited times they looked to make a play, they usually failed.

*58 percent of their shots were 3-pointers. They had seven assists in 72 minutes, well below the league average for guards of 10 assists per 72 minutes.

Rodney Stuckey returning from his groin injury would help. For all his faults, he doesn’t turn the ball over much, and he doesn’t force a lot of bad shots. (He just misses a lot of layups.) Stuckey still probably wouldn’t help this team make the playoffs, but he could help Knight’s development.

Knight probably learned something tonight. I just don’t know what. The game was so out of control and so out of doubt for so long, it wasn’t conducive to growth.

I’m not sure I want to trust Knight’s development to playing many more minutes with Gordon. He would benefit more from playing in the backcourt with Stuckey, Will Bynum (who handles the ball much better than Gordon) and Austin Daye (who wouldn’t be asked to do as much as Gordon).

For both the long term and short term, the minute allocation of the guards should be done with Knight’s partner in mind. As we saw tonight, Knight and Gordon is an odd pairing that will result in more harm than good.

Tayshaun Prince needs rest

Damien Wilkins (seven points on 3-of-5 shooting with four rebounds, three assists, a steal and three turnovers in 25 minutes) filled the Tayshaun Prince role about as well as Tayshaun Prince (four points on 1-of-6 shooting with two rebounds, two assists, a block and no turnovers in 23 minutes). Wilkins’ defense on Carmelo Anthony was a little better, and Prince’s help defense was a little better. Prince forced less offensively, and Wilkins converted more.

Overall, they were about equally productive. That’s both a compliment to Wilkins and a knock on Prince, which isn’t necessarily Prince’s fault.

Prince has been bothered by a knee injury, and I’ll join Patrick in calling for Prince to rest (unless this is the type of injury that would worsen with rest, which I doubt). Wilkins can fill in capably enough, and with three years left on his contract, there’s no point of Prince risking significant damage to his knee right now.

Jonas Jerebko, small forward

And now to disagree with Patrick, I would like to see more Jonas Jerebko at small forward. Amar’e Stoudemire (22 points on 8-of-15 shooting with eight rebounds) gave him trouble, though Jerebko held his own for his size. But why do the Pistons keep asking Jerebko to hold his own? He’s such a great athlete, he could could be a difference maker at small forward.

Against many matchups, the distinction doesn’t matter. Jerebko can play either position. But I’d like to see him get more time at small forward than power forward when it makes a difference.

Jason Maxiell, free-throw ace

Aside from Jason Maxiell, the Pistons shot 6-of-15 from the free-throw line. Maxiell – a career 56 percent free-throw shooter – went 7-for-7. I won’t try to explain that, because just thinking about it might cause my head to explode.

55 Comments

  • Jan 7, 201210:39 pm
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    I can almost make out what that blurry figure is in our future. Is it, is it, wait…why yes its Andre Drummond and i can almost touch him with the pistons now sitting 5th last in the league standings. For those of you that are asking the league standings are now:
    2-6 Detroit
    2-6 Charlotte 
    2-6 Houston
    2-7 New Jersey
    0-7 Washington

    • Jan 8, 20125:15 am
      by Mark

      Reply

      Good for the Pistons is that they have the toughest schedule in the league, on strength of schedule.

      So they should be primed for the worst record in the league.

      If its in doubt at all towards the end of the year, just look at the March schedule, we might lose the entire month of games. I believe its comprised of three, 4-5 game road trips, separated by like 1 game at home against the Heat, and another against some other team. Good chance we lose every game that month. And Drummond should be ours, who looks like he could be our first true superstar since Isiah.

    • Jan 8, 201211:24 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Everyone keeps talking Drummond. Now obviously, I would rather have Davis, but he will probably go #1 which Detroit will have at best a 25% shot at. But what is so great about Drummond? Obviously. I’d be happy to have Drummond but by that I mean, how is he more desirable than Perry Jones or Jared Sullinger?

      • Jan 8, 201211:45 am
        by vic

        Reply

        Because Drummond is bigger than Davis, he has natural size, he’s like a mix between Chris Webber and Amare Stoudamire…

        Id be cool with Davis too… but 30 extra pounds is something you can’t teach.

        • Jan 8, 20122:01 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Yeah, I can see how Drummond is a C to Jones’ PF. But what about Sullinger?

          • Jan 8, 20126:31 pm
            by bg8

            in my opinion, sullinger is too short (not really 6’9), can’t jump, and unathletic. you’ll have to guys playing your power forward and center position who can’t get off the ground. so absolutely no shot blocking at all.

  • Jan 7, 201211:02 pm
    by jayg108

    Reply

    Should Prince’s lack of scoring be a concern?  I know he’s a leader and has a brilliant IQ, but without the scoring, isn’t he more qualified for being a coach.

    • Jan 7, 201211:05 pm
      by jayg108

      Reply

      OOPS.  I didn’t see your write-up on Tayshaun when I posted.

  • Jan 7, 201211:03 pm
    by Jodi Jezz

    Reply

    I think this lost should also highlight our horrible front-court…For the 80th time, Jonas isn’t a starter!..Why not start our front-court with Monroe/Wallace so we can start the game defensively…Jonas is a energy player that should come off the bench, nothing more…It’s hilarious how Frank talks about defense but won’t start the game with our best defensive player in Wallace…

    • Jan 7, 201211:15 pm
      by jayg108

      Reply

      Agreed.  Something needs to change.  Wallace would set the tone and help Monroe learn even faster.

    • Jan 7, 201211:42 pm
      by Kk

      Reply

      With the rough condensed schedule, and Wallace’s age makes it very difficult for him to start.

      • Jan 8, 20127:27 am
        by Jakob Eich

        Reply

        Guys, Ben is 37-years-old and can barely stand 10 minutes a game back-to-back! You really think starting is going to do us/him any good???

  • Jan 7, 201211:58 pm
    by Pete

    Reply

    I was watching the game online and they even said the Pistons are one of the worse teams in the league and the Knicks should win this easy. Im trying to figure out what Joe D is supposedly still “evaluating” from this team?  Everybody in the league can see this team is put together terrible..I hope Gores is REALLY watching these games,looking into the stands at home games and  seeing how the fans are losing faith and interest in this team….

    • Jan 8, 20124:12 pm
      by Laser

      Reply

      The organization has been spitting out bullshit consistently since the team started on this downward spiral. “Evaluating” is just another chunk of bullshit that’s been spit at us for more than three years running.
       
      The truth is that the roster isn’t just bad, but it’s got almost no avenues for improvement. At all. So the organization will continue to pump out excuse after excuse and desperately try to put tons of focus on our few promising players.
       
      Gordon, Villanueva and Maxiell are all paid too much to be traded for anything of value; Big Ben would retire if he was traded, so that’s not happening; Bynum and Daye probably don’t get you anything worthwhile if Joe decided to trade them. That leaves: Stuckey, might be worth something in trade, but he’s the only guard on the roster with any size, and Dumars probably won’t trade him anyways once he’s allowed to on March 1; Tayshaun also can’t be traded until March 1, and many think Dumars is going to keep him around so he can retire here, even though he’s clearly the best trade piece we have to get younger and better; none of Jonas, Knight and Monroe could probably bring us anything that would make trading them worthwhile.
       
      Win-win trades are usually made between contenders and rebuilding teams. Trading one of our young building blocks would accomplish nothing, and our veterans are all either overpaid or Joe doesn’t want to trade them or both. We’re sunk. So there’s going to be a lot more “evaluating” until the team is out from under the contracts Joe buried us with.

      • Jan 8, 20124:29 pm
        by Jakob Eich

        Reply

        If he doesn’t make more bad contracts …

  • Jan 8, 201212:44 am
    by vic

    Reply

    Houston and New Jersey should pass us up, so we should do no worse than Jared sullinger.

  • Jan 8, 20121:28 am
    by ryan

    Reply

    Right now I think there’s a very real likelihood that Jared Sullinger’s Ohio State squad could beat us. I’m glad the losses keep piling up because we need to go for a pick but I am concerned about Brandon Knight, Greg Monroe and Jonas Jerebko. We need to put these guys in situations where they can learn and grow and that should be 100% of our priority.
     
    One other thing, I like Damien Wilkins. He’s not a savior or a starter but compared to the rest of our roster (Charlie Villanueva for example) he’s a breath of fresh air. We need to accentuate the positive.

    • Jan 8, 20124:16 pm
      by Laser

      Reply

      No offense, but highlighting the solid play of Damien Wilkins shouldn’t be anyone’s priority who’s looking for silver linings. It’s fucking depressing. First off, that guy doesn’t crack the rotation on any playoff team in the league. Second, he’s an old veteran and just another rotten band-aid for a team that needs actual, sustainable success. The only thing remotely positive about having him is if he can establish some value and get traded for a pick to a team that has actual use for his solid play.

      • Jan 8, 20125:12 pm
        by gmehl1977

        Reply

        Ala Tracey McGrady or what should of happened with Tracey McGrady

  • Jan 8, 20121:32 am
    by ryan

    Reply

    Oh and I can’t stand Amare Stoudamire. There is no more pathetic fake tough guy in the league than that clown. I’ll say it right now he’ll never be a starter on a championship team unless he’s the obvious worst player among the starting five and treated like “slow” kid brother by the staff and team.

    • Jan 8, 20124:58 am
      by gmehl1977

      Reply

      I am not a fan of Stoudamire either. What he did to Bogut on that dunk (pushing him in the back) was weak. Bogut hasn’t been the same since and was having a career year until Stoudamire did that. You only need to shove a player slightly when he is going for a dunk to end someones career.

  • Jan 8, 20121:41 am
    by ryan

    Reply

    If I were an NBA big man I’d love nothing more than to drop him with an elbow to the face. As a fan I’d LOVE to see it make it happen someone, anyone. I’ll buy your jersey and wear it with pride.

  • Jan 8, 20122:55 am
    by damian

    Reply

    unfortunately amar’e is tougher than seventy five percent of our roster. i wish we could deal gordon in some package for a forward/center with wilkens and/or a future pick. jonas is capable of being a quality sixth man.

  • Jan 8, 20124:32 am
    by frankie d

    Reply

    i agree with dan about JJ and the PF position.
    he can, sometimes, surprise and do ok or even fairly well. as a PF.   most times, however, he is merely holding his own, or simply not being abused, when he goes against most of the good and better PF’s..
    he could, however, imho, become a dominant SF.  he has the quickness and athleticism to guard most of the best SF’s out there, and he would do well against the power SF’s like lebron and paul pierce and caron butlet, et al.
    the idea that he needs to be an offensive machine, a paul pierce like contributor, doesn’t hold water.
    gerald wallace is a great example of a guy who plays the SF position without that kind of offensive skill.
    he plays it with energy and hustle and muscle and effort and aggression.  that pretty much describess JJ.  and while wallace does what he does with more muscle, JJ’s length and superior size at the SF position would allow him to have a similar physical advantage.
    JJ at the SF spot would let the pistons dominate at that position most nights.  instead of hoping that JJ could simply hold his own against most PFs, he would be a huge positive most nights at the SF.
    moving him to the SF spot, would give the pistons a huge front line with the six-ten JJ, a six-eleven monroe and another near seven footer – assuming joe d competently adds the necessary 4/5 to fill out the frontcourt.  the team would go from being one with  a weak frontline to being a team with a large, dominating frontline. 
    yes, JJ can play the 4 and he can hold his own against lots of guys one might have expected to dominate him.  but why be satisfied with that?  why not build a team that will dominate?
    it’s simply a matter of putting players in the positions where they can best succeed.

    • Jan 8, 20127:34 am
      by Jakob Eich

      Reply

      I dont see JJ becoming a dominate SF! He could be a servicable 6th man at the position, occasionally playing the 4. He wont be in James, Durant, Gay territory obviously, I see his ceiling more in the Chase Budinger range, just a better rebounder.
      The problem we have is our size. If you shift JJ to the three, who do you play at 4? Okay, Maxey, then what? Maxey can give you 6 minutes spurts, we’ll be in hell of a lot of problems if any of our big guys get injured (with Big Ben it’s a likey scenario). Tay can play the 4 as well, but he’s injured as well. CV would be the only possible starter at the 4, but he appears to be in Frank’s doghouse and I don’t see him coming out of it over the next days.

      • Jan 8, 20121:46 pm
        by frankie d

        Reply

        imho, a guy like jj can dominate most other small forwards because of his superior size, length and strength.
        a guy like gerald wallace owns kevin durant.  scored 40 on him last year, held durant to 19 points a few games ago during a win, he makes durant look like a little high schooler.  he does it because he is just too big and strong for durant, and he throws durant completely off his game.
        a six-ten jj can physically dominate most of the small forwards he faces, and while he won’t do it with brute strength like wallace, his length and size can accomplish the same end.
        i don’t care about numbers a SF can run up against other teams.  i am only concerned about how he will matchup against the other SF when we play them and especially when we play in a series.
        for example, kelly tripuka put up great numbers, but he got dominated by guys like dominique wilkins and bernard king.  he had to go, regardless of how many numbers he put up against everyone else.  if the competition you face in playoff series dominates that matchup, you lose.
        in a one-to-one matchup against most of the better SFs in the league, i would put my money on a guy like jj being able to dominate that matchup.
        by the way, budinger is 6’7″.  jj is a legit 6’9″ to 6’10″.  those 3 extra inches make a big difference, especially because a guy like jj uses his physicality aggressively.  he is not a finesse player like daye, where that great length does not matter as much.  (at least so far in his career.)  jj actually tries to impose his will on opponents with his physical aggression and when you give him a physical advantage by putting him on a smaller player, he’ll dominate that player.
        lots of great players have been great players because they used their superior size to dominate players who were generally smaller at their positions.  it was not a coincidence that magic and bird were so physically dominant and so much bigger than the guys they typically faced.  it gave them an incredible advantage that they routinely exploited.
        i like budinger and think he’s going to be a very solid pro for the next decade, maybe even making a couple of all star games.  too bad joe decided to trade him before giving him a chance.

        • Jan 8, 20124:33 pm
          by Jakob Eich

          Reply

          I’d like to share your optimism, I really do. JJ has a long way to go if he wants to get into Wallace’s territory. Wallace is much stronger and more athletic than JJ. JJ will have a good NBA career, but I don’t want to put my hopes up for him he might not be able to fulfill. If he stays in the league for 12 years it would be a huge success for a guy from Sweden. And I didn’t want to knock on Budinger, he’s a solid player. Anyway, I hope you are right about JJ.

          • Jan 8, 20124:58 pm
            by frankie d

            it would really help if the team would play him at his natural position.  continuing to play him at the big forward spot may fill a huge hole for the team, at this point, but it does very little for his development as a player, and it will hurt the team in the long run.
            he’s always going to be an average PF who will have good games against a quality opponent once in a while.  
            however, most times when he comes up against a quality PF, like last night, we will see what we saw last night.  he will get dominated and the team’s interior defense will be shredded.
            the problem is that the best teams usually have the best PFs.  so you are setting yourself up for a huge matchup problem if you rely on him as your power forward.
            it is the kind of matchup problem that can kill title hopes.
            again, it is exactly what happened with kelly tripuka, at the SF spot.  the better the team got, the more playoffs it got into and the deeper into the playoffs it went, the worse things got for kelly tripuka.   the SF’s just got better and better.  and his inability to compete with the best became more and more obvious and problematic.  fortunately management recognized the problem and moved him while he still had excellent value, even though he had great chemistry with zeke and even though he was an extremely popular player who put up big numbers.   it was a gutsy move that set the team on a path to a title. or two.

  • Jan 8, 20125:11 am
    by Mark

    Reply

    There should be no question why they wont play Jerebko at SF.

    Its because Dumars, after 1 rookie season of evaluation, deemed Jonas a PF for the next 4 years, by the signing of one Tayshaun Prince to a 4yr/$30 mil deal.

    There’s no way Joe would admit his mistake this early. He will untill his mistake grows into a monstrousity as usual, and causes even more damage.

    Quite a sight at the Palace tonight. I honestly thought to myself at one point, down 25, fumbling the ball all over the gym, that I feel bad for those poor people sitting in the stands.

    I watched the replay as I was watching the Lions game when the Pistons were live, but I just tried to watcht the replay and couldn’t take anymore and turned it off in the 3rd. Those poor fans were stuck there and it was like a cruel form torture.

    What an ugly basketball team.

    • Jan 8, 20124:20 pm
      by Laser

      Reply

      Don’t feel bad for those idiots who paid their money to support a franchise that’s been shitting into their mouths for three years and pretending it was the chocolate waterfall at Colden Corral.

  • Jan 8, 20127:06 am
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    Question: If the pitsons get the first pick do you select Davis or Drummond? I am going to have start downloading some UCONN and Kentucky games. I have seen a lot of Drummond but not much of Davis.

    • Jan 8, 20124:21 pm
      by Laser

      Reply

      I know this isn’t helpful, but they won’t get the first pick. Somehow they’re going to play their way out of a real difference maker and/or get leapfrogged. The Stones aren’t picking first. You heard it here.

  • Jan 8, 20127:39 am
    by Jakob Eich

    Reply

    I watched the game live for a change. I disagree with Gordon, he had a death in his family, I’m sure it still hampers him emotionally. Also, if you have a backcourt with a rookie PG and an SG who is known for shaky decision-making you shouldn’t be surprised that your offense isn’t working. We probably should have started Knight and Daye again or Bynum and Gordon. I agree with that Knight and Gordon don’t work together which is great because we are stuck with both for another three years. I hope they develop some chemistry.
    Was Dumars re-signing Prince to the contract a populistic move? Was he scared to let Prince go because of a possible fan reaction? I mean come on! He has had injury problems for the past two seasons now and he is injured once again. It’s not a knock on Prince, it’s a knock on Dumars. There were more than enough excuses to make the case for Joe, but I am running out of them. He now has an owner who is willing to pay money in order to form a contender and Joe still has not changed anything. We need to get rid of the 03-08 players so the fans can accept the new identity of the team, whatever identity it will be. Prince is like the ex-girlfriend who is still still living in your apartment. Again, not a knock on Prince!
    This team is awful to watch …

    • Jan 8, 20124:27 pm
      by Laser

      Reply

      On the re-signing of Prince:
       
      1) Dumars likes Prince personally, and Dumars likes having a comfort zone. Prince provides familiarity and stability to Dumars. There’s a good, selfish, non-basketball reason to re-sign him.
       
      2) Prince was the best free agent who would sign here BY A MILE, and it’s hard to argue against signing the best player you can, especially when it’s not going to screw up your cap situation, which Prince’s contract won’t. That’s a good basketball reason to bring him.
       
      3) Prince could probably be traded to a contender this season or next to bring back a building block, which would truly make this a great signing, but I’m not holding my breath. More likely than not, Prince is going to retire a Piston. That way, no matter how much Joe has fucked his legacy in the ass by destroying the team he built, at least he’ll be able to say he drafted a career Piston. Ironically, trading Prince would clearly be a better move for the team at this point, but that stuff doesn’t matter to Joe.
       
      4) On a team where the fanbase is shrinking like a frightened turtle, bringing back a popular player with a familiar face makes some sense. The team is atrocious, but at least some die-hard fans get to continue wathcing Tayshaun mope up and down the court.

      • Jan 8, 20124:46 pm
        by Jakob Eich

        Reply

        1) A GM shouldn’t sign players out of a comfort zone. Should he bring back Isiah and Laimbeer??? That’s the problem I have with Prince’s signing. I don’t blame him for wanting Prince to retire a Piston, but what did Tay give up? If he wants to retire a Piston he shouldn’t take that much money and cripple us even further. 

        2) Yeah, he was. Again, just give him less money or let him go to a contender. Dumars doesn’t get the best players he can get anyway so why keep Tayshaun?

        3) I think he’ll stay where he is at. Contenders don’t give up building blocks for an ageing player with knee problems. We would have to include Monroe or Knight in that deal, maybe even JJ. Think about the contenders, LAL, BOS, and DAL are too old for our purposes, MIA has only the big three, none of which will come to Detroit, CHI won’t make a deal for Tay because they have Deng, OKC has Durant, although I would love to have Westbrook if he’s on the trading block soon. OKC has some real money issues now. They might be intrigued by a package including Stuckey and Prince. Since Prince can play the 3 or the 4, well, maybe, but highly unlikely. And I don’t see Joe trading Tay either. 

        4) How many fans will tune in just because Tay is playing if the team sucks??? Again, it’s just holding on to nice memories, it’s nothing productive for the future, you know?

        I can see where you are coming from Laser, but none of the reasons convince me to give him so much money.

        • Jan 8, 20126:14 pm
          by Laser

          Reply

          I am anti-Dumars and would skin him alive and set him on fire if I was allowed. I make no excuses for him EVER, including the above. I was merely explaining the Tayshaun signing.

          • Jan 9, 20127:57 am
            by Jakob Eich

            Dude, relax, you got some serious issues, man. He is in charge of a franchise and not responsible for the Holocaust or 9/11. Jesus …

  • Jan 8, 20129:31 am
    by Shane

    Reply

    I think one of Knight’s biggest mistakes is the number of 3s he is taking.. (though he makes a few of em) I think he should be driving in the lane and either dishing or looking to score. After watching all of the Pistons games I can honestly say that he has missed a ton of 3s and his 3 point % only looks decent from yesterdays game

  • Jan 8, 201210:09 am
    by brgulker

    Reply

    Welcome to the Ben Gordon sucks bandwagon! It was a little lonely in 2009, but it has been filling up quickly since.

  • Jan 8, 201210:26 am
    by Micah Wels

    Reply

    Knight should never take 13 three pointers AGAIN!

    • Jan 8, 201211:27 am
      by tarsier

      Reply

      His shooting has been off thus far. But long-term, I expect deep shooting to be one of his more desirable attributes. Knight seems much more like Billups than Stuckey (who is more of a destitute hobo’s Dwyane Wade–more of a compliment to Wade than a bash on Stuckey).

  • Jan 8, 20122:23 pm
    by gordbrown

    Reply

    The thing that struck me about Gordon was that he came out and played really well. Also the team started to have trouble scoring the minute he came out. But the game fell apart the minute he came back in. But the Pistons can’t afford to have more than one or two players play poorly. If three of their key players play poorly, the sky is going to cave in. Also Stuckey is clearly the most important player on the team. Last year, when Stuckey wasn’t the starting point guard, McGrady was. If McGrady had his legs, the team had a chance. If McGrady didn’t, bad things happened. This year, no McGrady. I know part of the idea of starting Knight over Stuckey is to accumulate lottery balls as well as developing Knight. But I agree that putting him in situations such as last night has limited utility. Also Stuckey and Knight seem to work well together, for whatever reason. Bottom line, a healthy Stuckey and a healthy Prince would be really helpful. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

    • Jan 8, 20122:50 pm
      by frankie d

      Reply

      it wasn’t so much a matter of mcgrady’s legs as it was his head.
      he has been the best point man the team has had since chauncey.  he ran the offense the way a true point guard should run it, and the team ran smoother than it did at any time since chauncey.
      what is incredible and kind of pitiful is that stuckey’s absence demonstrates the lack of any other point man on the team.  
      (i like knight, but he is simply not capable of running the team just yet.  he seems like a smart guy and hopefully he will learn, but he is definitely still more of a shooting guard who may learn how to play the point, than a real point guard.)
      and it demonstrates that no matter how mediocre stuckey was at being a point guard, he is a lot better than anyone else on the team.
      stuckey as your team’s best point guard?
      a truly frightening reality and a huge reason the team is in the mess it is in.
      after the mcgrady example last year, one might have thought that joe would have made certain that he brought in someone to play the point while knight learned.
      sadly, he hasn’t and really doesn’t seem too concerned about it.

      • Jan 8, 20123:24 pm
        by gordbrown

        Reply

        Stuckey’s problems as a point are greatly exagerated. The reason the team is such a mess is that for the most part Stuckey has never really had anybody to whom he could reliably pass the ball. I actually wonder if that’s why Bynum is deteriorating before our very eyes. With Jerebko and Monroe this situation is starting to heal a bit, hopefully as the season unfolds this will at least get better. Good news is that Stuckey works well with both Knight and with Gordon. Interesting that part of the analysis from last night is Knight and Gordon is problematic.

        • Jan 8, 20123:51 pm
          by frankie d

          Reply

          are you saying that stuckey is a good nba point guard who knows how to run an effective offense?

          • Jan 8, 20124:31 pm
            by Laser

            I’m going to try my best to remember that Gordon Brown is a name to be ignored. I always forget.
             
            Stuckey, as a point guard, is supposed to make his teammates better. Not so much the other way around. He’s played with plenty of guys who could reliably score the ball. Let’s stow the excuses for the kid. All he knows how to do well is miss layups an draw fouls.

          • Jan 8, 20125:02 pm
            by gordbrown

            Just for shits and giggles, who was the point guard whose assist to turnover ratio and scoring average was closest to Rodney Stuckey’s last year. Hint, he’s with his third team since the start of last season. Also it was never Rodney Stuckey’s role to make the players around him better. It was another unnamed former Pistons starter for whom the offense was built around and who was 29th in shooting percentage among shooting guards last year, allowing other teams to pack the middle with impunity and doing enormous damage to Stuckey’s ability to penetrate and finish at the rim. Finally don’t underestimate the ability to draw fouls. That is a key element in finding the two wins the Pistons have so far this year.

  • Jan 8, 20123:58 pm
    by BIG MARV

    Reply

    This is once again a terrible team no excitement Joe needs to go because he dont make moves to help the team or even try to make it a watchable team flat out!

  • Jan 8, 20124:18 pm
    by Adrià

    Reply

    It’s extrange: when the team won vs Magic we became a good team. When we lost vs Knicks we became a mess. That’s not logic. After three years of bad playing it’s hard to be patient, but the team (and the coach) only has one month. We’re not already good, but we must be patient. We have to keep watching the young progres. Obviusly Knight was bad and he seems to have not chemistry with Gordon, but they’ve not have enough time to develop it. Obviusly we depend on Stuckey althought we’ve been blaming him for the bad results. He’s not a good PG, but he’s the best we’ve. Monroe and Jerebko shine. Daye seems to be an irregular player who’s now stuck on a hole. Dumars made a bad decision by resigning Tay, but think on the situation: we had JJ and Daye (no Singler and no Wilkins). Imagine ourselves now playing big minutes with Daye in his hole. It would be terrible.
    It’s possible that Dumars should be out, but we cannot rant on the Pistons everytime they lose. We must keep hoping we will grow into a better team. GO PISTONS

    • Jan 8, 20124:38 pm
      by Laser

      Reply

      Anybody who thought this team was “good” or anything approaching it after the Orlando game (personal attack removed) at best clueless. This roster fucking sucks and always will. Go back and read the comments after the Orlando game. Check out mine specifically, if you’d like an accurate assessment of the team and the win. Orlando is a pretender, not a contender; they played the previous night; the two main reasons we won that game were that Gordon took a ton of tough shots and actually hit them (which can’t be relied on to consistently produce wins) and that Wallace was able to contain Howard (which can only be relied on to beat that one specific team during this, Wallace’s last, season).
       
      You just seem like a naive fan who doesn’t understand basketball and wants the team to be good. We can and should rant against the Pistons every time they lose, because the team is horrendous and it’s all Joe Dumars’s fault. You’re better off just seeing my side of things; this season and next will be a lot easier for you to tolerate.

      • Jan 8, 20125:09 pm
        by Adrià

        Reply

        I don’t really need to tolerate the Pistons ’cause I can’t never see their games as they play at 2 a.m. in my country. That’s why I think I see everything a little more objectively and what I see is most of you changing your mind everytime the Pistons change their gamestyle. That’s maybe why I might seem a stupid guy with no idea about basketball. This team is not good, but for the comments I read it seemed like it was. I just read and comment here to understand more what the hell is going on with Pistons, and I thing that you’re asking to much fast results. And fast results usually never go on well. 
        That doesn’t mean I think Dumars is doing it OK, but if he was able to bring the team to a championship, why he couldn’t do “it” again and make the Pistons come back to playoff.
        Ah, and Laser, your comments are always on the same way, so I wasn’t referring on you. It was what I felt about the atmosphere.

        • Jan 8, 20126:10 pm
          by Laser

          Reply

          Fair enough. I think there are a lot of brainless fans around who just want to wave the flag and don’t know anything about basketball. Many think I’m just a grouch for being so hard on the team, but I know basketball and I’m both fair and consistent in my attitude.
           
          Also, just because Joe won one championship doesn’t mean shit. Just look what he did with what he had in 2008 when this team was inexpensive and elite. He won a championship by making a small handful of good moves and getting extremely lucky, but he has no Jerry Stackhouse to trade for a Rip Hamilton, no Grant Hill to trade for a Ben Wallace, no cap space to sign a Chauncey Billups in free agency, etc.

  • Jan 8, 20126:17 pm
    by joed

    Reply

    thats crazy this team sucks so bad now smh

  • Jan 9, 20126:48 pm
    by damian

    Reply

    we need some new fucking jerseys.

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