Comments on: Austin Daye reminds everyone that he’s a NBA player for a reason

By: tarsier

tarsier — Sat, 28 Jan 2012 00:53:35 +0000

I dunno. PER undervalues defense (as in not really at all). And it only values efficient scoring, not inefficent scoring. But it does tend to assume that even without the player in question, a team will get the majority of their defensive boards. Whether that is the case for a player like Rodman is subject to debate.

But to say that based on the box score, Rodman contributed at an average level seems not too unfair. He rebounded really well and scored really poorly. Obviously it will miss his value of forcing the other team to miss (unless he gets a block or steal) and his fit with a team. But even if inaccurate, you have to expect standard metrics to miss a bit with guys as uncovential as Rodman.

By: Max

Max — Fri, 27 Jan 2012 22:09:55 +0000

It’s not a ridiculous statement but a factual one. I did not say Stuckey would be better than any Hall of Famers if he posted a career 18.4 in PER but that he would be above them in PER. It’s just a fact.

By: Laser

Laser — Fri, 27 Jan 2012 19:59:29 +0000

1) I don’t care how many teams fit that description, since we only have one Tayshaun. And I don’t think players with all of Tay’s positive qualities are that common.

2) A late first rounder sounds good to me.

By: Laser

Laser — Fri, 27 Jan 2012 19:57:31 +0000

@Hayes: I used your point as a springboard, but my second paragraph was all about how it wasn’t a bad signing unto itself. You called it unnecessary. I actually agree with Joe in principle that Tayshaun is an asset, and we can’t exactly afford to just let our assets walk away.

There’s been some sentiment around town and on this site that re-signing Tayshaun and Stuckey was a mistake, particularly for a rebuilding team. Bringing them back were not mistakes. I don’t understand Stuckey’s contract, but that’s secondary. The bottom line is that these guys have value. Aside from Ben Wallace, whose value is unique to this team because he wants to retire here, that leaves Knight, Monroe and Jerebko with value, and that’s about it. Gordon, Villanueva and Max are liabilities, Bynum is reasonably paid but that’s about it, Daye might have some incidental value because of his upside. But you don’t let 2/5 of your valuable players waltz.

That said, you haven’t done yourself any favors if you just hold onto these guys because they make you feel comfortable and you have a patient owner who doesn’t know any better but to give you three more years to do what you should have been doing for the past three years.

By: Patrick Hayes

Patrick Hayes — Fri, 27 Jan 2012 19:55:19 +0000

PER is useful, but it still is a bit flawed. It tends to over-value scoring and under-value rebounding. Rodman's career 14.6 PER, for example, is nowhere near an accurate reflection of his overall value/contributions on the court.

While it was obvious he wasn't saying Stuckey was better than Thomas, he did say "last year’s 18.4 is a high enough number that if he posted it for his career, he would be above certain hall of famers." That's a ridiculous statement.

By: tarsier

tarsier — Fri, 27 Jan 2012 19:48:44 +0000

PER isn’t perfect but it’s one of the best advanced stats out there. It is the best attempt I know of to wrap up everything in a box score into a single number valuing a player. But obviously, it is unable to catch anything that doesn’t make it into the box score. Not to mention, it’s unfair to compare one player’s career high PER to another’s career average PER. And it was obvious that Max wasn’t calling Stuckey better than Thomas.

By: Laser

Laser — Fri, 27 Jan 2012 19:46:01 +0000

Sure, but who drafts a project small forward in the middle of the first round and gives them NO TLC WHATSOEVER for 2+ seasons?? When there were contributors and potential difference makers (Ty Lawson) available at positions of need (PG) if your organization had a clue how to evaluate talent? Daye is a special case. He's like a young child adopted and left to fend for himself and kill his own food.

By: tarsier

tarsier — Fri, 27 Jan 2012 19:42:19 +0000

he’s not owed a thing beyond his paycheck. but the pistons owe it to themselves to try to see what they can get out of him as long as they dont stand to lose anything by giving him minutes.

By: Laser

Laser — Fri, 27 Jan 2012 19:41:04 +0000

Ugh yeah it’s the biggest crock of shit I ever saw. We’re closer to the tax line than the cap line, and every contract on our books was put there by Joe. Before the season, Joe says he’s happy with the team and hopes to make the playoffs, all he’d like to do is add one big man. Same sorry old bullshit…

Then we start losing games at a historical clip, and FINALLY it dawns on the emperor that he’s BUCK FUCKING NAKED. But of course he’s got some stock bullshit about “we need time to restock the talent base” and “I know what kind of players this team needs.” As if he didn’t fucking put this team together himself. A little accountability would go a very long way with me.

By: tarsier

tarsier — Fri, 27 Jan 2012 19:34:18 +0000

you said
“a title team doesn’t need a howard. they just need someone who does the things howard does, defensively, even if they don’t do them quite as well”

that’s what i was responding to