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Can Will Bynum evolve?

Friday’s 91-87 loss to Cleveland was an unbelievably terrible basketball game to watch — both teams shot below 38 percent, they combined to shoot 91 (!) free throws (making less than 70 percent of them collectively) and the Pistons had six guys who would’ve probably fouled out if they were playing the minutes they’ll most likely be getting in the regular season. I can’t stress enough, though, how unbelievably excited I am to be writing about basketball, even bad basketball, again.

I’m guessing most eyes were on the point guard spot for the Pistons tonight. It’s the position that features the team’s most intriguing young player, Brandon Knight. It’s also the position where the team’s most conspicuously absent player, Rodney Stuckey, is the incumbent. But if you’ll excuse me for a moment, I’m going to hold off writing about either of those guys until later to start what is sure to be a spirited debate in the comments (this one’s for you, detroitPCB and Laser) about my favorite Piston over the last three seasons, Will Bynum.

Bynum has been a rarity on the roster during his Pistons career. He’s physically limited because he’s so short. He plays a position that has been loaded with big names — Chauncey Billups then Allen Iverson his first year — and young players projected off the bat to be major stars — first Stuckey and now Knight. Bynum has turned himself into a legitimate player through sheer hard work. He went overseas and got better. He fought his way onto the Pistons’ roster despite the fact that the team had a lot of guard depth. When he’s played extended minutes, he’s been productive and, more importantly, his contract to production ratio makes him a good value.

But the problem is, despite that work ethic, despite the fact that bigger name players in front of him have faltered or are no longer on the team, despite the fact that the team has for two years now supposedly been trying to rebuild itself based on character, work ethic and toughness, despite the fact that there has been open competition at other positions, Bynum has never really had an honest chance at winning the starting point guard spot and keeping it for an extended look.

Consequently, for three years now, despite having a guaranteed contract, Bynum has played just about every second he’s stepped on the floor like a man on a 10-day contract fighting his way onto the roster. He plays largely at one frenetic speed. He often looks for his own shot at the expense of involving others. He hasn’t ever really made an attempt to consistently run a halfcourt offense.

And none of this affinity for Bynum is meant to overlook or gloss over his shortcomings. Namely, he’s short. He’s not a good defensive player. He doesn’t have a reliable (although it has improved) outside shot and frequently relies too much on his athleticism. It’s debatable whether or not he’s a starting caliber guard in the league or just a really good change of pace guy off the bench. But the point is, we don’t really know because he’s never been given the chance to fail. And on a team like the Pistons, one that has been plagued by poor chemistry, poor attitudes and a poor overall product on the court over the last three seasons, a player as hard-working as Bynum at the very least deserves the chance to fail.

Which brings me to the present. All of a sudden, with Stuckey’s contract status unclear and the fact that he’s probably going to miss training camp and the crash course in Lawrence Frank‘s offense, Bynum finds himself as the most senior point guard on the roster. And according to Ben Wallace, Bynum has also asserted himself as a veteran leader so far in camp. He started Friday against Cleveland. I was excited for him but also found myself wondering: can Bynum change that quickly after spending three years as an afterthought to in-over-their-head coaches?

Results were mixed. Bynum was bad defensively. Kyrie Irving had a big first half with 14 points, many of them against Bynum (Knight couldn’t successfully stay in front of him either, but since he’s bigger, he was able to bother Irving’s shots more than Bynum could). He shot the ball well and had a couple nice passes — particularly a patient feed to a cutting Greg Monroe early in the third quarter. He also pushed the pace too fast a couple of times when it wasn’t there and got caught in the air once, couldn’t get a shot off and threw the ball away, a problem he’s had at times in the past.

Knight is clearly the future and as I wrote above, Bynum is probably not a starter on a good team, but the point is, his opportunity to have a shot at the job is overdue. He’s earned this audition.

So what about Knight?

In college, Knight was a streaky shooter who sometimes struggled with turnovers. In his debut for the Pistons, he shot just 3-for-9 and had four turnovers for his four assists.

But I have to admit (and Ben Gulker and the other stats guys will kill me for saying nonsensical things like this), Knight had something. He looked more comfortable than I expected this early on offense, playing within himself, especially early in the game. He forced a few drives late that weren’t there, but all young players do that. The form on his jumper looked great, even though his final shooting numbers weren’t great.

He really stood out on defense in the second half though. He dove on the floor a couple times to save loose balls and his defense on Irving got much better as the game wore on. Irving was blowing by every defender in the first half. Knight adjusted some in the second half, and Irving started missing more.

Knight still has a ways to go and there was more bad than good with his (and really, the Pistons’) performance tonight, but he did show flashes of the elite talent that make him an intriguing prospect. We saw that Knight can do the spectacular. But the real excitement will come when he can do the mundane — take care of the ball, score efficiently — well.

Austin Daye needs to play shooting guard

I’m convinced that Daye’s most successful NBA position will be shooting guard. Daye struggled on defense when there was contact involved — he’s simply weaker than probably any forward in the league. But he excelled on defense when his man was facing up, trying to shoot over him. Daye had five blocked shots and although he’s not as quick as most shooting guards, his length allows him to recover and bother shots even if he gives up a step off the dribble.

On offense, he shot 6-for-12 (3-for-4 from 3-point range) and had 18 points. Daye still has significant weaknesses that will hinder him against stronger players, but Frank clearly needs a way to get Daye more minutes since the Pistons showed they have very few players capable of scoring as efficiently as Daye is.

Monroe’s double-double

That’s the world’s least surprising header. Monroe picked up where he left off, feasting on rebounds and using craftiness around the basket to finish with 12 points on 5-for-11 shooting. The positive for Monroe was his presence on the defensive glass. Last season, he was an elite offensive rebounder (one of the best in the league) and a so-so defensive rebounder. Against Cleveland, 10 of Monroe’s 13 boards were on the defensive glass. Now, I certainly don’t want to suggest defensive rebounding is more valuable than his activity on the offensive glass, but if Monroe can improve as a defensive rebounder while maintaining the dominance on the offensive glass, he could make a huge leap this season.

The absent power forward position

Jonas Jerebko looked very much like a player who hasn’t played a NBA game in over a year. Charlie Villanueva looked every bit like the Villanueva that has become the bane of Pistons fans’ existence. Jerebko was a step slow defensively, fouling out in just 17 minutes. The bulk he’s added was apparent — he looked much stronger than in the past. But I hope that doesn’t come at the expense of quickness that helped him become such a solid player his rookie season. Offensively, he was terrible, shooting just 1-for-7 and getting no offensive rebounds.

Villanueva’s 2-for-11 shooting will stand out, but I have to admit, he had moments where I began to hold out some hope for him on defense. Whereas Jerebko was overly aggressive and created too much contact on defense, it was good to see Villanueva mixing it up. He typically shies away from contact, but against the Cavs, he did fight and get a few in-traffic rebounds and twice his man was setting screens on the perimeter and Villanueva hedged aggressively, something he’s rarely done as a Piston. His main skill is offense though, and he just doesn’t do enough well to justify staying on the court if he’s shooting as poorly as he did against Cleveland.

The takeaway

This was ugly. Cleveland upgraded it’s talent a bit wit Irving and Tristan Thompson, but the Pistons’ interior was abused by Samardo Samuels. That sentence doesn’t bode well for the season. Samuels shot 16 free throws. He, Anderson Varejao, Thompson, Alonzo Gee and Antawn Jamison were all much scrappier and quicker to the ball than the Pistons’ frontcourt. Wallace and Tayshaun Prince being in the regular rotation will help some in that regard, but the Pistons need a lot more defensively out of Monroe and Jerebko in particular.

45 Comments

  • Dec 17, 20111:00 am
    by Piston87

    Reply

    I’m not sure you were watching the same game I was.  He played with little intensity and was destroyed by Irving in the 2nd quarter.  I understand he’s a vet and it’s preseason so I’ll give him that (why waste the energy on a rookie).  Many players in the league are never given the chance to fail.  Will Bynum has been given many more chances then most undrafted guys.  He is not a question mark, we know exactly what he is and he is not a starting caliber point guard in the NBA.  He’s short, a defensive liability, a below average passer, and an average at best shooter.  He’s got an excellent handle and is cat-quick, good things but not enough to overcome his deficienies and certainly not enough to be a starter.  He’s a hard worker and you want him on your team but at this point in his career Will Bynum is not going to evolve into a starter.

    • Dec 17, 20111:23 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I mentioned the poor defense and bad decisions against Cleveland. I saw them and wrote about them.

      I don’t think it’s likely he evolves into a starter. I meant ‘evolve’ from the standpoint of now that he’s being given this chance with Stuckey out, can he reel in how he’s typically played in the past and play a slower, more methodical style that is usually required of starters?

  • Dec 17, 20111:05 am
    by Andre

    Reply

    Not to hate on Bynum, but he is a backup PG at best.  Great scorer, but he doesn’t see the floor well enough to lead this team.  He’s always looking for his shot instead of trying to get his teammates involve.  Last year I watched him jack up shot after shot with his teammates open and waiting for the ball.  Unfortunately, he has too much Stuckey in him to be a starting PG.  Hard worker, great roll model for any player in the league but he need to stay in the positon he’s in.

    • Dec 17, 20111:25 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      But that’s the thing … he does see the floor well enough and he does possess the ability with his speed and ability to get the defense off balance to set up good shots for others. He just doesn’t always do it, other than in rare moments like the 20 assist game.

      I legitimately don’t know if Bynum can be effective playing a starter’s role simply because I’ve never seen anyone ask him to do anything but play at 1,000 miles an hour, usually in garbage time.

  • Dec 17, 20111:43 am
    by Robert

    Reply

    I seriously wish the Pistons would trade Stuckey and see if they could get some inside help. Like you said if a guy like Samardo Samuels is going to eat you up on the inside then we are in really big trouble. The Piston’s have plenty of Guards and can afford to deal Rodney. Move Daye to shooting guard like you said makes a ton of sense because of his frame..  Deal RS and let Knight learn on the fly.  A coach just has to be a coach and get in Will’s head that he has to run the offense not be the offense and then again if it does not work he can slide back into that instant offense off the bench guy.   What a terrible game to watch.. I was very frustrated and I am really frustrated that Joe D. has really let this franchise waffle in the wind.

    • Dec 17, 20118:42 am
      by detroitpcb

      Reply

      I seriously wish the Pistons would sign Stuckey, play him at two guard alongside Knight, and trade Ben Gordon. How can anyone watch that garbage that Ben Gordon calls a game? Clanking open jumpers. making turnovers. Not moving the ball. And this is our supposed best player? The guy who “has a body of work”?

      We need to trade Gordon for a big who can hit midrange jumpers and rebound. Greg Monroe is not going to develop offensively to be a 20 point scorer. That is obvious. He needs help and CV is not my idea of a starting power forward. 

      Joe needs to admit that Ben Gordon and CV were mistakes and get rid of them. Anyone can make a mistake. All GM’s do. But he is sticking with these guys and i am now in Laser’s corner. Unless he moves these two clowns, he should be replaced.

      • Dec 17, 20119:47 am
        by Patrick Hayes

        Reply

        I’m no Gordon fan, but why is anyone convinced Stuckey is the answer at shooting guard? Honestly, he has more value as a point guard.

        And no one is trading a capable big man for Gordon. It’s not happening.

        • Dec 17, 20111:36 pm
          by Laser

          Reply

          Stuckey doesn’t lead, run an effective offense or make anybody else better. Scoring is the only thing he does well. It stands to reason that he’s more capable of improving his shooting and scoring a lot of points than suddenly developing the ability to run an NBA offense worth a damn. Plus he’s been more effective off the ball when he’s been allowed to do so. As a point guard, literally all he has going for him is size. His upside may be better at the point if we ignore four years of proof that he’s a dud atthe position.

          • Dec 17, 20113:44 pm
            by Patrick Hayes

            Let’s say he moves to SG and improves his scoring average to 18 a game this season. That’s a big improvement, but does it even make him a top 15 SG in the league?

            If he stays playing point guard and has a fairly efficient 16 and 8 season (not saying it will happen, I have little faith in him). At his size with those numbers, he’d be among the elite PGs in the league.

            I don’t want him to play PG anymore, I hope Knight and Bynum split the bulk of the minutes there. But if Stuckey wants another big contract, and I assume he wouldn’t have taken a 3-year deal if that wasn’t his ambition, it’s in his best interest to continue trying to be a point guard. He won’t get that money again if he becomes primarily a SG.

      • Dec 17, 201111:15 am
        by neutes

        Reply

        Why trade one when you can have a 3-guard rotation in the backcourt? Knight looks just good enough to where I don’t want him riding the pine. He needs to play. Bynum would be the odd man out. I don’t like the 3-guard idea, mostly because I don’t want to keep all three, but you do have that option.

  • Dec 17, 20111:52 am
    by Daye and Knight

    Reply

    Ben Gordon/Charlie V looked like a waste of money…again. Gordon finally caught fire in the 4th but was pretty bad before then, meanwhile Charlie V was down right horrible and if it wasn’t for lack of depth I would be trying any way I could to visit Mr. Dumars and beg him to amnesty him and pick up Sammuel Dalembert. As far as Gordon goes I think he can be a nice source of energy off the bench but I couldn’t vision him as a starter. Stuckey would be my choice as the starting SG going foward but he’s way in over his head and should be ignored, I wish we would make an effort at trying to sign Nick Young but I doubt we will so my next option is Austin Daye. He would be a nightmare to opposing SG’s cause of his length alone, he can also take it in and wait…stuckey needs to learn this, its what ALL SG’s should at the very least be able to do and that is SHOOT THE DAMN BALL. *Ahem other notes, Knight looked pretty good for his first game but is not a finished product yet…Greg Monroe looks ready to break out as a double double machine. Our future would be bright if we started the youth movement and started Knight, Daye, Prince, JJ and Monroe

    • Dec 17, 20112:06 am
      by Andre

      Reply

      Too late for AMNESTY and fans please remember that all these guys are rusty.  They haven’t played a real game since April I believe, and they have had one week of training camp with a new system.  If they look like this in January then you should be piss. This is one season that I don’t care what they do.  The NBA draft is loaded with good players and we have a new coach, so try to relax this season.

      • Dec 17, 20112:21 am
        by Daye and Knight

        Reply

        As a fan I’m not about looking forward to loosing. Yeah the draft next year should produce talent that will help a bad team relevant but I don’t want to go the Cleveland route (2003) just to watch it backfire at some point. Let the young guys play and I know as long as we’re trying and we still lose I can be OK with looking forward to the upcoming draft. However, I will always care about what we do cause if I didn’t I wouldn’t watch. Every team is in our position with the lockout so excuses won’t sit well with me period. We have a nice young nucleus. All I want is to at least see what someone like Daye can do at the 2, and see if Dumars can trade for a big man and if we still lose then at least I’ll know we’re not just rolling over and looking foward to the draft before the season really starts.

      • Dec 17, 20112:32 am
        by Patrick Hayes

        Reply

        Yep, a point that can’t be stressed enough Andre. There is going to be some bad basketball this season. Young players didn’t have a summer league. Camp and preseason are shorter. And during the season, the schedule will be more scrunched together so there will be more travel/less rest/less practice time. It will take teams a while to have any semblance of cohesion, even the good teams.

  • Dec 17, 20112:04 am
    by Robert

    Reply

    I agree go with youth but try and get a really true rebounding presence that plays lights out defense. 
    I think Stuckey is the odd man out for me.. His attitude is poor. He seems not very coachable and  
    maybe we can get something before the damn really breaks inside Rodney’s head. he has some
    value right now.   Come on Joe D.   Fix this mess you created…

    • Dec 17, 20112:36 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I don’t disagree on Stuckey. He’s definitely flawed.

      But unfortunately, he’s the team’s best guard. Their backcourt is tiny without him. Ideally, he’d sign to a reasonable contract and play both guard spots, defending the best opposing guard. Stuckey’s actually better defensively against point guards, but if Ben Gordon is the full-time shooting guard, there will be a long list of twos Gordon won’t be able to guard and Stuckey will have to take.

  • Dec 17, 20116:09 am
    by Laser

    Reply

    Bynum is what he is, which is to say: “better than Stuckey At everything except being 6’4.” Probably never a proper starter, but I’m a thousand times more comfortable with him running the offense for many reasons. He’s still just a stopgap at best, since Knight likely starts before the season is done. I’m all about Daye at the two, Gordon and Villanueva look like garbage, the overall personnel is depressing. I thought we would have a better roster for having added JJ and Knight and shedded some perimeter fat, but I can’t shake the feeling that we have a worse roster than last year’s. Which is almost incomprehensible. At this point I’m not sure if we should trade Stuckey, but the roster needs work. Maybe a lot of work. The only things worth being remotely hopeful about are our lottery picks, who won’t pay off for a long long time, and who anybody could add by being terrible.

    • Dec 17, 20118:51 am
      by detroitpcb

      Reply

      Laser, a starting five of Knight, Stuckey, Prince, Monroe and somebody like Milsap would not be bad especially with Bynum, Daye, JJ, Max, and Ben off the bench.And we will get a high draft choice this year and be able to grab another big man to go with Monroe.

      Joe just needs to correct his mistake and get rid of Gordon and CV.

      and from what i saw, both the coaching and the defensive and offensive schemes are much better. We just need another big who can rebound and score.

  • Dec 17, 20117:45 am
    by BIG MARV

    Reply

    Good write up pat IMO I think they need to get stuckey back because as you can see the first month (at least the first month of the NBA) is gonna be poor basketball. you need all of the scoring you can especially down in the perimiter. Stuckey can be that guy that can slash inside and draw the plus one fouls or reg fouls in general. Thats much needed scoring we are missing but some of the little things I do like and I see Lawrence frank installed is that the pistons are more of a team now. when they see a player fall down for a shot all 4 run to pick the guy up. I like the small huddles now at the foul line among the players, and the team defense has improved. That Knight vs Irving match up will be entertaing for years to come I bet that will be a hot ticket in the future. Knight has impressed me already he did show flases of an eliete pg especially when he passes and plays defense I think by adding stuckey and knight together you could be looking at a good frountcourt real soon.
    Everybody looked ok but not great I think monroe is in midseason form with a doulble-double already! daye showed that he can be a good back-up sg/sf at best. Benny G looks like he plays well when there is a athletic PG on the team (knight) to give him the ball in the corner, as he once did in chi-town when d rose was the pg. but all in all rusty hoops and it will be a while before we see perfection im just happy to see basketball again.

    • Dec 17, 20119:46 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Yeah, they will definitely get destroyed defensively by other guards without him. A Bynum-Knight-Gordon backcourt is just way too small to be competitive on D.

  • Dec 17, 20117:52 am
    by Marvin Jones

    Reply

    All this hate on Stuckey is amazing, all of a sudden he’s “uncoachable” but of his THREE coaches in four years the only one he’s had a real problem with was Kuester, who everyone had a problem with. The notion that Bynum is better than Stuckey is laughable, PGs with Stuckey’s size, speed and quickness are rare, maybe Frank will be to Stuckey what Larry Brown was to Billups, someone to show him how to balance his scoring with his passing. Considering the coaches he’s had it’s a wonder that he has improved each year.  Sometimes you don’t know what you got until it’s gone, but Stuckey is a keeper and I think Joe knows that.

    • Dec 17, 20119:02 am
      by Sebastian

      Reply

      Agreed, Marvin Jones is exactly right everything that he has written about resigning Stuckey.

      Just curious, how do you’ll feel about signing Al Thornton.

      • Dec 17, 20119:38 am
        by Patrick Hayes

        Reply

        Eh, he’s a volume shooting wing who doesn’t pass or defend. He can score some I guess. But I assume they signed someone like Damien Wilkins for training camp because he’s a better defender than Thornton.

  • Dec 17, 20118:26 am
    by tayshaun

    Reply

    This game definitely shows how badly Stuckey is needed. We need the ball in his hands and as another scorer since gordon, charlie, will, a rookie in knight, and monroe are not able to consistently get an easy 20. I do not want to see another play that is broken when we had jonas, gordon, austin, and charlie behind the 3 line trying to make a play and turn it over. Even though austin’s stats look good, I thought offensively he looked out of place especially when he spun into the lane and tried to make an awkward pass to the corner 3. But defensively I was impressed with cv, bg and ad. To me bynum is a great third guard that is a game changer at some points he was the best on the court last season by pressuring guards full court, running solid pick and rolls and charging down the floor for fastbreak layups. I think we should bring stuckey back and let him help backup brandon and share the shooting guard with gordon as well as play some at the 3 depending on the matchup. I know stuckey might not deserve the 10-12 mill he wants but he was a reliable scorer and did okay running an offense.

    • Dec 17, 20119:45 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      “he was a reliable scorer and did okay running an offense.”

      If he comes back, indications from the team are that it will be as a shooting guard. I’m not sold on him as an above average shooting guard. He doesn’t shoot well, first of all, and his biggest asset at the PG spot — his size — is more average among other SGs.

      • Dec 17, 20111:44 pm
        by Laser

        Reply

        The crazy thing about stuckey’s size advantage is this little irony: They sign Gordon with the idea that he could play with Stuckey and complement his game, plus stuckey’s size means we can afford to have a small two… But the result is that more often than not they’re going to be cross-matched defensively, negating stuckey’s size advantage entirely. So you have a rotten point guard with no real advantage, and the whole offense suffers for it. Its almost as if somebody didn’t think this through…

  • Dec 17, 20118:52 am
    by Steve K

    Reply

    After spending the majority of the week railing on Stuckey, I do have to admit he would’ve helped last night. No doubt yesterday’s awful guard performance helped Stuckey’s contract situation.

    Still, does it benefit the Pistons in the long run to sign Stuckey to something long-term? It’s not like he puts them over the top. Stuckey will help them win games over crap competition. But they’ll still lose to most everybody else. As Laser said, the roster is inexplicably worse than last year’s. Instead of missing Stuckey, I found myself missing the cool, calm court vision of McGrady. Hopefully Knight will be that persona at some point.

    No college player comes in with All-star ability. The question is how they develop. Knight showed flashes of elite talent. But he was raw. Way raw. But with Stuckey in the way, Knight will develop at a much slower pace.

    So, yeah, they can suck this year, and I won’t complain. Just show some semblance of a plan, Joe.

    p.s.
    Agreed re: CV and BG. Man, they looked like crap. Just more fuel for the fire.

    • Dec 17, 20119:43 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      “Still, does it benefit the Pistons in the long run to sign Stuckey to something long-term?”

      If they sign him to more money than he’s worth, then no. But if they sign him for maybe, at the max, $6-$7 million a year, he’ll produce at about that level and still maintain some trade value. But yeah, if his agent is demanding $9 million or more per year, the team would be screwed even more financially over the next few years by adding another bloated contract.

  • Dec 17, 20118:57 am
    by detroitpcb

    Reply

    and what is this hate on Daye. He was the best player on the floor for the Pistons. he scored 18 points, had 6 rebounds, and 5 blocks in 26 minutes. Despite being soft near the rim on offense, he doesn’t back down on the defensive end and sticks his nose in the paint for rebounds.

    This kid is the best offensive player on the team aND NEEDS TO BE THE FOCUS OF THE SECOND UNIT OFFENSIVELY WHEN THEY ARE ON THE FLOOR.

    • Dec 17, 20119:41 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      The hate — at least on the radio after the game — stemmed from the fact that Frank was clearly annoyed with and yelled at Daye a couple of times. I’m sure Frank yelled at everyone at some point, but cameras happened to catch him getting on Daye, so people ran with it I think.

      I still think you’re faith in Daye is a bit over the top, but he was clearly the team’s best offensive player last night and he could be one of the best 3-point shooters in the league this season.

    • Dec 17, 201111:18 am
      by Piston87

      Reply

      He may have been there best 3 point shooter on the floor but there is still another half of the game.  His defense was OK when his man had the ball, but off the ball and boxing out on rebounds was just awful.  Which is why I’ll agree with Patrick that he’s got to play SG unless he’s matched up with another weak SF.  Any SF with some size will most likely just push him around.  He’s a great role player off the bench right now.  BTW, I love breaking down guys after the first preseason game, Haha!

  • Dec 17, 201110:05 am
    by Travis

    Reply

    I thought daye had a nice game. Knight really seemed to have a connection with him. Knight showed potential out there with that nice 3 and effort diving all over the floor. I would have bet on Monroe having 2 steals, not blocks but he seemed to put and effort into contesting shots. And showed a nice hook shot too. If stuckey comes back all its going to do is put us on fringe 8th seed position and take us out of a nicer lottery pick.

  • Dec 17, 201110:38 am
    by Fennis

    Reply

    Re Daye:
     
    Please realize that Daye will NEVER get meaningful minutes at shooting guard. People see a sweet shot and a lanky form and immediately think he can play 2. I like Daye’s game quite a bit, but the guy barely has the foot speed to hang run with 3s. Do you really think Daye can chase Richard Hamilton and Ray Allen around double, triple screens? It’s not happening.
     
    Daye is a 3/4. I hate to break it to you. He can defend back up 3s and stretch 4s competently. And before you scoff at Daye playing down low, consider how he compares to Charlie V on defense. I’ll take Daye on the block on D before Charlie. It’s not ideal, but Charlie’s defense is unintelligent and demoralizing.

    • Dec 17, 20114:32 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Sure I can see Daye chasing a guy like Rip or Allen. Neither is particularly fast, they just run a lot. He would probably tire out if he chased them all game, but those two guys games are basically predicated on that concept. Not a lot of players can chase them the entire time they’re on the floor. That’s what subs are for. There are a couple SGs I don’t think Daye could defend. But htose are the super fast/athletic/explosive ones. Eric Gordon, Monta Ellis, and Tyreke Evans would probably give him difficulty. But for those couple matchups, you can use a different defender. The primary job of most SGs these days is to spread the floor and fire off as many open 3s as possible. Daye can defend that just fine. What’s more, his length would give him a little more leeway than most to cheat off his man.

  • Dec 17, 201111:17 am
    by Coach_Ackley

    Reply

    Daye at shooting guard.. I’ve said that since we drafted him his skillset would be best used as a SG and not a SF or a PF just because he’s tall.. He’s not strong enough to play any of the power spots just not going to happen and ppl will say yeah well Tay did just fine at SF over the years but Tay might not look it but is by far stonger than Daye…. So playing Daye at SG would be a really good move by coach Frank but the question will be will he play Daye there…….

  • Dec 17, 201111:35 am
    by Coach_Ackley

    Reply

    Rodney Stuckey has agreed to a 3 year, $25 deal to stay with Pistons, league source confirms to Y…..

  • Dec 17, 201111:50 am
    by robbie

    Reply

    I hope I am wrong here, and I know it’s only one pre-season game, and I don’t watch college basketball, but Brandon Knight was not impressive except for when Blaha and Kelser droned on about his high school GPA and his AP classes.  Unfortunately, he looks like a Keyon Dooling type player.

    I agree Daye needs to be at SG. His build and strengths as a scorer are similar to KD.  Let’s hope he starts like KD. :-)

    • Dec 17, 20111:45 pm
      by frankie d

      Reply

      i saw the first half and bits and pieces of the second.
      but when knight was matched up against irving, he physically dominated irving.  in fact, he seemed to intimidate irving.  one of the most telling plays was a one man fast break with irving the only defender back.  knight simply lowered his shoulder a bit, moved irving back and finger-rolled the ball into the hole.  irving looked helpless.  he didn’t even try to challenge the drive or the shot.  that play clearly showed me that at least physically, and probably mentally, knight has an edge on irving.  in fact, knight has an admirable competitive streak in him.  i won’t say that it is zeke-like, but it is pretty obvious.  unless irving steps it up, he’s going to have his hands full, trying to compete with knight over the years.

      • Dec 17, 20113:22 pm
        by Coach_Ackley

        Reply

        Frankie D I couldn’t have said it any better there friend… I agree 100% with you bruh……..

      • Dec 17, 20113:45 pm
        by Patrick Hayes

        Reply

        Well, Knight was certainly stronger than Irving, but he also couldn’t stay in front of him. Irving is significantly quicker than Knight, and that’s no knock on Knight. There are very few guys who will stay in front of Irving.

        • Dec 17, 20114:12 pm
          by frankie d

          Reply

          patrick,
          yes, irving’s speed and quickness are as advertised.  he is just going to be one of those guys who will be able to get into the lane anytime he wants.
          but i definitely liked the match-up, from detroit’s perspective.  it was just interesting to see knight get a little more aggressive when he went at irving.
          that one sequence, when he simply attacked the pass that was meant for irving, ripped it out of irving’s hands, and then went into and then over irving for the layup….  it was like he was sending him a message.   like he was saying, i’m bigger and stronger and you’re going to have to deal with me.   and irving was definitely a little bit shaken by that sequence.   he was a little hesitant the rest of the half, when knight was on him.
          knight made a fan of me in that one play.  it was the kind of thing zeke would do to get into a guy’s head. like a bully.  that is how zeke would treat john stockton.  (which is why malone opened up that gash on zeke’s skull.)  now zeke would usually do it with speed and quickness, but he would let guys know from the start that he would take their lunch on the court, if he wanted to, and knight seemed to be giving irving the same kind of message.
          lots of fun to watch!

        • Dec 17, 20117:20 pm
          by detroitpcb

          Reply

          What stands out about Irving is not just his quickness, he is very fast, but his motor. he pushed the ball at the defense every time he had the ball. not too many players put that kind of pressure on your defense. irving is going to be a Player.

          what impressed me about Knight is that he got better at staying in front of Irving as the game went on. He clearly figured him out a little bit and was able to adjust to irving’s speed and pressure. That is what impressed me the most about Knight

  • Dec 17, 20113:59 pm
    by James R

    Reply

    Wish I could have watched the game. How did Ben Gordon play? I think the Piston’s should amnesty Villanueva. He is atrocious. When he is on the court I usually turn the channel because I would end up yelling at the TV if I didn’t.

    • Dec 17, 20114:15 pm
      by frankie d

      Reply

      CV looked as pitiful as usual.  or more pitiful than usual, because his shot was off, and if he is not hitting his shot, he is useless.
      i had to laugh because i thought i was the only person who had to turn away from the tv when CV was on.  i cannot stand that guy.  it is embarrassing to have him on the team i root for.

  • Dec 17, 20119:46 pm
    by ryan

    Reply

    It’s obvious that Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon were both huge mistakes. Villanueva just doesn’t seem to get it despite having pretty good size and skill. Ben Gordon is even worse. He can’t defend either guard spot and he can only, sort of, play one of the two spots he’s like a combo guard in reverse in that he has not more than one position but less than one.
     
    I just hope he’ll start shooting well and that we can fool some team into taking him off our hands I’d love it to be New York since I hate that crop of losers they’ve assembled but any team that’ll let us get out from under him without taking too much garbage back is fine.
     
    Then we can amnesty Charlie since we’re definitely not getting anything for him. It won’t really make us better but getting rid of the garbage is important.

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