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Brandon Knight will continue coming off the bench

Terry Foster of The Detroit News:

Pistons coach Lawrence Frank said Knight played well against the Cavaliers. But Frank said his job is to place the best team out on the floor. Right now, he believes in the Gordon-Stuckey backcourt until further notice, but he said he is willing to change if things don’t work out.

Fans, of course, want Knight to play because he is young and talented.

“We have other very talented players too,” Frank said. “Your minutes have to be based on merit. Brandon is working hard. It is not a knock on him. Right now, the thing that gives us the best chance is the starting group we have. But with that being said, throughout this whole process we have to be flexible. As a coach, the one thing you maintain your integrity with the team is tell the truth. The group we put out there is the group we are starting, and if there is a change that has to be made it always has to be in the best interest of the team and not in the best interest of the individual.”

That’s about what I expected. I make no attempt to hide my belief that Knight should start, but Frank does have a responsibility to play the guys his bosses signed to big money until it becomes obvious to everyone that Knight is better than both. Fortunately, it looks like Knight is on the verge of doing that sooner than most expected.


  • Dec 29, 201111:20 am
    by Shane


    I just hope they play Knight as a starter early enough early enough to not knock him out of contention for ROY.. especially since he has a good shot at it. If they start using him as a starter mid season like they did with Monroe (after the initial failure) it’ll hurt they’re shot at getting the credit they deserve(Monroe played better than Cousins and i think Favors last year)

  • Dec 29, 201111:32 am
    by Laser


    This is completely expected. Same old Pistons. This is indicative of an institutionalized problem with the organization; the only two things that are at all different are Knight replacing Rip/Tracy and Frank replacing Kuester, and in one fell swoop we get the message loud and clear that nothing’s really changed.
    The thing is, if they really were interested in winning back fans, they wouldn’t stick to this rotten, insulting seniority rule that’s been dragging down a team that needs its talent to be maximized as much as possible. The assertion that Stuckey and Gordon give the team its best chance of winning is ridiculous on its face and makes me respect Frank less. He’d be better off stating it as a personal opinion.

    • Dec 29, 201112:30 pm
      by Marvin Jones


      Wow, the kid has one good game and already he’s better than everybody, amazing. If you want to just go with the young guys, then I don’t have a problem with that, but to say that he’s flat out better than Stuckey and Gordon is ridiculous. We’re a whole TWO games into the season and how you managed to come to that conclusion is beyond me, except of course your personal disdain for Stuckey and Gordon. Let’s get a few more games in (like 10) and let the guys get their legs under them and then you can make a rational decision instead of a knee jerk one.   

      • Dec 29, 20111:23 pm
        by Laser


        There’s a big difference between saying Knight is better than Stuckey and Gordon and Knight is better than “Stuckey and Gordon.”
        “Stuckey and Gordon” as a unit will get us nowhere. Together, they have very limited potential; they’ll just take turns with the basketball in their hands doing the one thing they do (Gordon dribbling around to create distance and taking jumpers. Stuckey driving in for a missed layup) until the team collects another lottery pick. Neither one is a point guard, and I don’t think either one is truly a starting caliber player in the NBA.
        At the very least, Knight runs an offense. He can attack the basket, drive and kick, he’s demonstrated good court vision, he’s a good shooter, and when he’s on the court he’s actually RUNNING THE OFFENSE. Put him on the floor with one of those idiots and let the other idiot come off the bench. The team is going to get nowhere with a Stuckey/Gordon backcourt. Maybe they’ll also get nowhere with Knight and one of those pieces of shit, but at least the games will be more organized and more bearable to watch.

    • Dec 29, 20112:45 pm
      by Patrick Hayes


      Well, the issue is twofold. Yes, the organization has to win back fans. And you’re right, quitting the heavy dependence on veterans at the expense of minutes/development of young players would be a huge step in that direction.

      But Lawrence Frank also has to work within a locker room that essentially mutinied on a coach last season. He was stuck with the roster, so he was basically forced to come in and give people fresh starts. Hopefully Knight just continues his growth and that will make Frank’s job of deciding who to start and give the most minutes to much easier.

    • Dec 30, 20112:11 pm
      by Michelob Mike


      As long as Knight gets close to 30 minutes, who really gives a shit?

  • Dec 29, 201112:09 pm
    by BIGMARV


    The Last Paragraph says it all I mean its the the same BS thats been going on for the past 3 years its sad that joe forked all that money to those guys and they aint worth a 6th man spot. Frank can only say the right thing right now because he already know that knight is the better player. the ony thing I can say is that you give knight more mins if he plays better and better. Eventually he’s gonna be the starter and it will be asap

  • Dec 29, 201112:26 pm
    by Piston87


    Starting is irrelevant at this point of Knight’s career, what matters is PT and he is getting it.  Coming off the bench let’s him go against the other teams 2nd point guard and gives him a better chance to get his rhythm and confidence going.  This is an example of smart coaching, not throwing your rookie PG to the wolves when you have a decent guard in Stuckey.  If he shows he can consistently perform at a high level I have no doubt he will get starter’s minutes or a starter’s role.

    Also, Patrick’s comments that Frank has a responsibility to play big money players is an opinion and one that I don’t think is accurate.  You could say the same thing about developing talent and playing rookies.  Fact is the coach’s responsibility is to win games, a coach that doesn’t win won’t have a job.  If Frank thought starting Knight would help him win he would be out there.  But Knight’s a rookie and Frank can’t count on him yet.  Stuckey and Gordon are the logical choice at this point in the season to start.  Besides I don’t think the back court is the reason we are losing right now.

    • Dec 29, 20111:28 pm
      by Laser


      Setting aside the idea that starting and playing 30 minutes is better for Knight’s development than coming off the bench and playing 30 minutes, consider this:
      Inserting him into the starting lineup sends a message that the old ways are over, this bullshit seniority rule that’s been plaguing this team for nearly three seasons. Stuckey and Gordon form an uninspiring backcourt that can’t win. Knight gives us a better chance simply by BEING A POINT GUARD and having a sense of how to run an offense. The team will be more organized and might actually be bearable to watch. These things are important, particularly for a team that claims to be interested in winning back the fans.

    • Dec 29, 20112:51 pm
      by Patrick Hayes


      “Also, Patrick’s comments that Frank has a responsibility to play big money players is an opinion and one that I don’t think is accurate.”

      Maybe ‘responsibility’ isn’t the right word. But he’s stuck with them. So it would make sense for him to try and figure out if there is a way to use them effectively before just giving up and saying “we’re playing the young guys.” That would make already hard to move players even more untradeable.

      • Dec 29, 20113:52 pm
        by Piston87


        Benching Stuckey and Gordon until Knight proves himself will be the quickest way for Frank to become Kuester 2.0 and lose the locker room.  Jonas and Greg are starting that’s two starters with a combined 2 years of experience.  There is no seniority rule in effect.  Veterans get the benefit of the doubt because they have a track record which is something a new coach has to rely on at the beginning of the season.

        I agree Frank has to try and figure out how to use all of his players effectively and even though they are overpaid Stuckey and Gordon are still better players then the rest of the guards on the roster (although Knight might overtake them quickly here).

        • Dec 29, 20114:37 pm
          by Laser


          How dense can you be? Monroe and Jerebko are starting because there is ZERO depth ahead of them. Ben Wallace is a part-time player, Maxiell isn’t a starter on any team in the league, and Villanueva is serving a suspension (though when he returns, he probably continues to come off the bench because he’s worthless). You’ve used the worst anecdotal evidence possible. There’s been a seniority rule around here for as long as anyone can remember. Knight is going to have to prove beyond a shadow of any doubt that he’s the best option or you can bet he’ll come off the bench until Gordon or Stuckey is off the roster.

  • Dec 29, 201112:29 pm
    by L Boogie


    Right now the Pistons look worse honestly; defense first huh?? well you see they start off playing defense every man is up guarding there man, then a few minutes later they are tired and they back off defending and then guess what 3 point shot good, pick-n-roll defense non existent drive in the lane. I think there could be a case of dead legs from all of the 3+hrs of practice, but I see no offensive cohesion they look lost in the way of each other, ITS A WORK N PROGRESS speech that will be the mantra all year you watch. Guys defend harder, rebound with some toughness, I look at the schedule and I see no easy wins in sight, this could be the worse year yet. Joe lets sign some more help, come on!!!

  • Dec 29, 201112:34 pm
    by solo



    • Dec 29, 20116:13 pm
      by gmehl1977


      Congratulations Solo you are the first commenter to scream out in CAPS for the season but you most certainly wont be the last.

  • Dec 29, 201112:47 pm
    by vic


    That’s a really scary statement coming from Frank, unless he changes in the next few days, I’ll be disappointed.

    It’s obvious that Knight has better instincts, shooting ability, passing ability, and competitiveness than any of the guards on our roster. Crown him pg already! This is a business, right?

    • Dec 29, 20111:30 pm
      by Laser


      Yeah I tend to agree. I thought Frank might actually be different in the respect that he wouldn’t automatically start Stuckey and Gordon because of their salaries. I was wrong, and I’ve almost instantly lost faith in the only thing that was supposed to be different this time.

      • Dec 29, 20113:40 pm
        by frankie d


        you guys are forgetting one important probable fact: the reason frank is sitting in the coach’s seat is because he understood that he would acquiesce to joe d’s demands regarding line-ups and PT.
        THAT has been one of the biggest problems with the organization since joe d took over.  every coach since flip has publicly referred to that kind of meddling in one fashion or another.  in one memorable moment, chris webber let the cat out of the bag on national tv, when he joked about joe d coming into the locker room at half-time in order to threaten the players.  undoubtedly it is one of the reasons joe has not been able to hire an experienced coach since flip and has had to settle for rookies or retreads with limited options.  no self respecting, serious coach would allow a gm to dictate his line-ups or rotations.
        can you imagine doug collins playing guys based on their contracts?
        can you imagine avery johnson putting guys out on the court because of their contracts?
        of course not, which is why those guys are coaching elsewhere instead of detroit.
        any coach is going to take input from his boss about personnel matters.  that goes without saying.  but dumars appears to go far beyond what typically occurs in the nba, and what has happened recently is a very obvious example of that kind of meddling.
        frank will do what joe d tells him to do, because that was part of the deal when he took the job.  if he had not agreed to toe the line, he’d still be sitting on someone’s bench as an assistant.

        • Dec 30, 201112:09 pm
          by Sebastian


          frankied, the micro-managing tendencies that you have described of Joe, is the very reason why I have said that Joe, himself, should be the coach of OUR Pistons.

          I truly believed that if Joe was the coach that OUR Pistons would be a better squad and Joe could then better validate the decisions that he has made, when constructing the roster.

          That said, WE still need to repair OUR roster, especially the frontline.

  • Dec 29, 20112:14 pm
    by Shaun


    Laser really???!! BS senority rules?! What has knight done in the NBA?!?! What?? One game he plays well against the second unit.. Come on like the rookie doctor saves someones life for the first time. Are u ready to make him your doctor now and put him as chief of medicine. I was hoping pistons fan would step it up this year but they are already digging them selfs a whole in a short season.

    • Dec 29, 20112:53 pm
      by Patrick Hayes


      Almost everywhere else in the NBA, results and talent matter, not seniority. The incumbent guards on the roster have a track record of two years of poor results. Knight is a highly talented prospect who the organization has a lot riding on.

      • Dec 29, 20114:43 pm
        by Laser


        That’s my point. Stuckey + Gordon = a major pile of shit that we’ve seen too much of in the past and KNOW will get us nowhere. Knight, as an unknown quantity, has an automatic leg up. It doesn’t hurt that he’s actually a point guard and seems to have a better knack for running an offense than those duds.

        • Dec 29, 20116:24 pm
          by gmehl1977



          AND i would like to add that he is now the leading PPG scorer for all rookies at 16 PPG. Yeah its only 2 games in but that to me is what makes it more impressive. Its kind of funny but Knight has a sleepy Sam Perkins look about him but he is anything but sleepy. I have no problems with him still coming off the bench as long as he gets 22 to 26mins per game.


  • Dec 29, 20112:38 pm
    by Jeremy


    I do not have an issue with Knight continuing to come off the bench for a bit. Am I of the opinion that he is the future of this team and will be better than Stuckey? Yes. For the time being let him get his feet wet in the NBA. Many of you have said that you thought it would be different with Frank and not starting people because of their salary size/seniority and that this showed you it was the same old situation. Not sure about you guys, but I think Frank is still feeling these players out. In my opinion, the only reason Stuckey had 32 minutes last night is because Daye has yet to hit a shot and he went with a 3 guard line up towards the end of the game. Bynum didn’t see the floor at all.

    What completely baffles me is why Daye is being brought in to spell Tay. Knight and Big Ben should be the first reserves coming in. Knight, Gordon/Stuckey (whoever has made the most shots stays in), move Jonas to the 3, Ben, and Monroe seems like a much stronger line up than subbing Daye in and taking Monroe, Tay, and Jonas out.

    • Dec 29, 20112:55 pm
      by Patrick Hayes


      I don’t have a problem with it continuing for a bit, but not much longer than that. Like I said in the recap, Cleveland sucks. I would like to see Knight get one or two more good performances under his belt, but if he does, they will have no choice but to start him.

  • Dec 29, 20112:38 pm
    by Sebastian


    The trade scenarios, below, should be considered seriously:

    Move: Charlie V. and a OUR 2012 second round pick to Sacramento for Jason Thompson and Hassan Whiteside.
    Move: Maxey, Daye, and the rights to Kyle Singler to Houston for Thabeet and Terrance Williams.

    Then WE roll with:

    PG- Knight/Bynum
    SG- Stuckey*/Ben G./G. Wilkins
    SF- Jerebko/Tayshaun/T. Williams*
    PF- Monroe/Whiteside
    C- Thompson/Thabeet/Macklin

    Remember 13-men rosters can be carried, until March 1. When March 2 comes we can let Wilkins go.

    Start Knight now! I would even advocate to start Terrance Williams at the 2 or Stuckey, but nevertheless Stuckey can see key back-up minutes at the point. Williams can be a specialist providing minutes at the SG, SF, and PG positions when absolutely needed.

    The above roster is a far better defensive squad than what WE are currently offering as an NBA team.

    Ben G. can then come in the heat up and provide a scoring punch from the bench. Ben G. as a SG jacking-up shots from bad spots on the floor, as a starter is not a good thing. He will be more effective, when used like a weapon off the bench.

    Tay can be moved at the trading deadline to a contender for a late first round pick freeing of significant minutes.

    Joe get the Maloofs (Kings) and Morey (Rockets) on the phone. 

    • Dec 29, 20113:05 pm
      by Patrick Hayes


      I don’t see any incentive for Sacramento to do that trade. Thompson and Whiteside are both young, cheap big men with potential. Whiteside at one time was projected as a top 15 pick before he had terrible workouts. If they moved either guy, they could do better than Villanueva and a second rounder.

    • Dec 29, 20116:30 pm
      by ryan


      That’d be a great trade Sebastian but I think Patrick is right Sacramento wouldn’t take our garbage. But we need to explore something along these lines and when we find the best deal we need to make it happen.

  • Dec 29, 20113:02 pm
    by danny


    I guess this is okay if were fine with having the worst backcourt in the league and not winning games.

  • Dec 29, 20113:11 pm
    by neutes


    “…if there is a change that has to be made it always has to be in the best interest of the team and not in the best interest of the individual.”

    I actually like this quote. You could just go so many ways with it. In a short-sighted sense Frank is doing this. In a long-sighted approach he’s doing the opposite. What’s truly in the best interest of the team? The short-term or the long-term? Obviously the short-term is what interests Frank because his job is judged on wins and losses at the present. But shouldn’t anyone, including Frank, be thinking about the future? The team is poised for an 0-10 start, does it really make that much sense to think short-term?

  • Dec 29, 20113:13 pm
    by Shaun


    Patrick you said it. Results matter and knight is a high talented Prospect! Bg has been a 20ptg guy and Stuckey has just lead the team in pts and ast while being one of the lowest players on the team. Knights going to be a stud and it’s great that he has a balanced game. So they all need to be getting a lot of minutes because the game is dependent primarily on so much of what they do.

  • Dec 29, 20113:54 pm
    by Max


    One things that irks me in this whole debate is the notion of labeling Stuckey and Gordon’s starting status as a nod towards seniority.  I know the term is not being used specifically to say they are old, but the notion has also been thrown out that they should sit so Frank can go with the youth movement.
    Rodney Stuckey is a 25 year old combo guard who is very experienced running the point for a 25 year old player, even if he is not great, but he is still young and still very much a part of the youth movement.  That he was arguably the Piston’s best player through about half of his twenties so far argues very strongly against his being put on the bench because a 20 year old rookie has one good game off the bench—do any of you remember your whines about how Knight proved he wasn’t ready after his first game?
    All of that said, I actually found myself feeling somewhere between ambivalent and annoyed every time Ben Gordon knocked down a meaningless jumper during the second half last night, because I was starting to feel like Knight should start, but for me it’s definitive that Gordon and not Stuckey should be put to the bench.  Ben Gordon is 28 years old and still young too; his contract is awful and I’ve been having a hard time keeping my hopes alive with him, but he put up the numbers he’s being paid for last night.
    Ultimately, no matter who starts, the three guards in question seem to be the best three scorers on the team, so they will need to play plenty of minutes.  Last night the guards did a more than acceptable job but the front court was awful.  The front court is the real problem and who starts at the guards can’t really address it other than the idea that they would be a lot bigger in general if Daye started at shooting guard, but he looks like he belongs in college right now.

    • Dec 29, 20114:46 pm
      by Laser


      I’ll admit that Gordon absolutely cannot win with me. No matter how good he plays, he’s an albatross on that contract and we have superior options to him on the roster. Every shot he knocked down either bored me or made me groan out loud.

  • Dec 29, 20114:54 pm
    by gordbrown


    To beat my dead horse even more into submission, Stuckey and Gordon are not the problem, they hardly played at all together last year and when the team was last respectable (ie before Gordon got hurt two years ago) they were an effective back court together. The perversity of last year was the refusal to play Stuckey and Gordon together. I am happy with a three guard rotation and don’t really care who comes off the bench as long as that’s the the case. My concern is Daye playing like dog shit (not sure what has go into him but it’s like he doesn’t want to shoot) and Maxiell playing at all. Wasn’t the opposing guards killing us in either game, let’s focus on the real problems.

    • Dec 29, 20118:19 pm
      by Max


      I’d like to point out to the conspiracy theorists out there and those who think that on any other team, a talent of Knight’s stature would just automatically start over established veterans that the Timberwolves have a PG who looks just preternatural in Ricky Rubio and he is coming off the bench so far behind Luke Ridnour and the team acquired JJ Barea during the off season–and Rubio was drafted two years ago, has played for many years as a pro and is not the youngest player in the league as is Knight.  Nevertheless, the NBA world is abuzz with Rubio whether he starts or not.
      Last year, coach _________  (I won’t write his name) benched Monroe for the first two games and he wasn’t playing behind the Pistons best and highest paid players respectively.
      Coach Frank, which rhymes with Coach blank, played Knight significant minutes for his first two games, and saw Knight have a breakout in game number two.  You might have noticed that towards the end of the game, when it was still technically in question, Frank sat Stuckey and continued to play Knight who had been in the game longer, which seemed to make Stuckey angry.  I’m not sure why people are questioning Frank on his handling of Knight so far.

  • Dec 29, 20118:23 pm
    by Max


    And Kemba Walker is coming off the bench as well and unlike Knight was repressed and put on the bench during the stretch while experiencing his breakout.
    Freddette is coming off the bench too.
    This whole debate is silly.

    • Dec 29, 20118:35 pm
      by Max


      This debate is silly, but also annoying to me, so I’d like to round it out:
      #1 Pick Kyrie Irving is starting but I believe he played fewer minutes than both his backup Sessions and Knight last night.
      #2 Pick Derrick Williams is coming off the bench and I believe seeing fewer minutes than Knight.
      #3 Pick Enes Kanter is coming off the bench and most definitely getting fewer minutes than Knight.
      #4 Pick Tristan Thompson is in the same situation as Derrick Williams.
      #5 Pick Jonas I can’t spell his last name is playing in Europe this year.
      #6 Pick Jan Vassely is not even getting minutes.
      #7 Pick Bismack Biyombo is barely getting minutes.  I think he played 5 last night.
      # 8 Pick Brandon Knight is coming off the bench and is practically getting starters minutes.
      Does anyone still have a problem?

      • Dec 30, 20111:56 am
        by frankie d


        the problem is not necessarily with knight.  the issue is that pistons’ coaches always give lip service to the idea that they preside over a meritocracy where players earn their minutes and then they ultimately ignore on-court results and trot out the same starters and reserves regardless of how well they have done.  their actions directly contradict the PR they feed the public.
        last season  was a perfect example.
        the young guys played very well in preseason, the coach talked about players earning minutes but when the regular season started guys who had literally not stepped on the court in the preseason were gifted a role and minutes.
        this preseason, knight and daye were the best players on the squad.  tay did not play, stuckey played only a small portion of the second game and did not play that well.
        yet, when the season starts, those two are stuck automatically into the starting line-up.
        obviously one has to consider past performance to some degree, but when a coach and organization make such a big deal about new starts and earning everything, it sends a horrible message to fans and players when guys who hold out are simply stuck back into their former roles regardless of what has happened out on the court.
        and this, unfortunately is a problem that goes back years.  it is the reason the team has not developed young talent that was ready to move into a role once the old guard slowed down.
        so, yes, this fan has a problem.  if knight and daye have shown that they were the best players in the backcourt for the 2011-12 pistons then they deserved to start.  if stuckey is good enough, he will show that he is good enough by coming off the bench and playing so well that the team has not choice but to play him.  the same logic applies to tay.  and if their play clearly elevates them above the other guys, it will only take a couple of games for that to become obvious.
        i really don’t give a hoot how other teams have handled their rookies and PT.  i watch the pistons and i am concerned about their approach to that issue.   and their approach has been disastrous over the last few years.  the idea that the team should simply continue following failed policies just because…is indicative of the braindead thinking that has landed the team in the mess it is currently stuck in now.

        • Dec 30, 20113:51 am
          by Max


          Firstly, these are new Piston coaches so I’m not sure why they should have any reference to last year, but you are greatly mistaken if you think minutes are really earned in the preseason and that coaches consider stats in the preseason to be anything more than intrigue.
          The preseason is simply not NBA basketball.  The players are not going all out and the coaches are not playing their usual lineups.  In fact, a lot of coaches around the league spend a lot of time saying during the preseason like, “I sat player X because I already have a good idea about him and it doesn’t mean anything regarding who I will play during the actual season”.
          This truncated preseason made these dynamics truer than ever and for lots of NBA teams, their starters were not even signed and in camp–which was true of Stuckey for game 1 of the preseason.  The Pistons played friggin Cleveland twice and Daye put up some points against guys who barely have NBA resumes.
          Similarly, Jordan Hill, of the Rockets, was scoring 20 and 10 during the preseason, but that was against teams that were sitting their real starters and the Rockets went out and signed Samuel Dalembert, which immediately cut into Hill’s minutes.
          I don’t really know how you can objectively look at the Pistons and think Brandon Knight and Austin Daye should have had bigger roles during their first two games.  Knight had about as many minutes as he could handle in both games and Daye didn’t really handle any minutes well.  If you are talking meritocracy, Daye is playing like crap and deserves even fewer minutes going forward while Knight is playing well and few will be surprised if he gets more.  Nothing seems amiss here.   The trouble is up front.

  • Dec 30, 20112:22 pm
    by Scott


    CLEVELAND GETS= Ben Gordon & Jason Maxiell
    DETROIT GETS= Antawn Jamison, Alonzo Gee, & a 2012 2nd round pick
    Dumars, stop living in 2004 and give Knight the reigns already!! Time to make Stuckey & Knight our starting backcourt. Granted, Stuckey hasnt been great but I have more faith in him then I do in Gordon. I’ve given up on trying to figure out whether BG is a starter or 6th man. I’ll tell you what he is: A HORRIBLE FIT FOR US!! Cleveland has virtually no 2-gaurds and, in the deal above, I would basically GIVE him to the Cavs. At least that way we make Stuckey & Knight our backcourt of the future and Cleveland can draft a small forward in next years loaded draft to give them a good solid young starting 5(Irving/Gordon/(draftee)/Thompson/Varejao). Plus, if VILLAINueva continues to underachieve, we can still use our amnesty on him whenever. I know this is somewhat straying from the subject but just wanted to throw this idea out there.
    Just trying to help our Pistons out. Sorry if I get slammed for this trade idea for not getting enough in return, but guess what, we’ll be lucky to get THAT much back for Gordon at this point.

    • Dec 30, 20112:56 pm
      by Dan Feldman


      I doubt the Cavs would do that.

      • Dec 30, 20113:01 pm
        by Scott


        is he even worth a bag of chips?

      • Dec 31, 201111:00 am
        by tarsier


        the problem is cleveland has about a million combo guards. gordon is probably more valuable than jamison, but not enough for cleveland to want him.

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