Comments on: Ben Gordon returning to form would be nearly unprecedented http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/ Your Go-To Source For Pistons Coverage Sat, 18 May 2013 09:53:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/comment-page-1/#comment-38799 Laser Fri, 23 Dec 2011 17:22:03 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/#comment-38799 Obviously I enjoy this site and come here often, but DAMN if there aren't some wonky themes in the analysis. Chiefly, the tendency to point fingers at individual performances with no consideration to the overall environment these guys are somehow expected to perform in. Rip and Gordon are the two worst casualties, our juiciest scapegoats, and not-coincidentally the two guys who were paid a fortune to share a position when nobody with a shred of basketball acumen would predict they were likely to excel together.   Nobody has been any good on this team, and Gordon is the last one you should expect to have excelled. And the problem isn't "Rip Hamillton" as much as "the entire status of the backcourt, and really that hasn't changed much. He's the least compelling player on a loaded perimeter, but that doesn't mean he can't play the same brand of basketball he did in Chicago if you inserted him into a good system. Put him on a good defensive team that needs scoring and he'll be the same guy he was before. Dude's like 27. Obviously I enjoy this site and come here often, but DAMN if there aren’t some wonky themes in the analysis. Chiefly, the tendency to point fingers at individual performances with no consideration to the overall environment these guys are somehow expected to perform in. Rip and Gordon are the two worst casualties, our juiciest scapegoats, and not-coincidentally the two guys who were paid a fortune to share a position when nobody with a shred of basketball acumen would predict they were likely to excel together.
 
Nobody has been any good on this team, and Gordon is the last one you should expect to have excelled. And the problem isn’t “Rip Hamillton” as much as “the entire status of the backcourt, and really that hasn’t changed much. He’s the least compelling player on a loaded perimeter, but that doesn’t mean he can’t play the same brand of basketball he did in Chicago if you inserted him into a good system. Put him on a good defensive team that needs scoring and he’ll be the same guy he was before. Dude’s like 27.

]]> By: Max http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/comment-page-1/#comment-38777 Max Fri, 23 Dec 2011 10:22:39 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/#comment-38777 The Bulls were trapped in mediocrity when they didn't have good bigs.  That first round playoff series with Bos coincided with the emergence of Noah. The Pistons have been mediocre since the the decline of Rasheed Wallace. Ben Gordon's regular season numbers for his career compared with those of Reggie Miller's at the same point in their careers on the day of signing but this is certainly his put up or shut up year. I didn't like the signing when it was made because I pretty much only like players that fit my vision of a Piston to a T and he just doesn't, but I'm not that inclined to doubt his return to form, which doesn't have to mean twenty points a game by the way; there is no reason why he couldn't score 17 or 18 and even be an all around better player. I don't like the point that his struggles last year disproves that he lost the previous season to injury,  From what I've noticed over the years it more often then not takes a player two yeas to recover completely from losing a year to injury.  Further, however you assign blame to RIP, McGrady and Kuester limiting him--I'm more inclined to not analyze and just call the entire thing chaos. One year was lost to injury and chaos and the other offers a host of reasons why nearly any player might have struggled. Some ESPN writer can compliment Kuester;s offense all they want, but the team seemed to hate and not believe him and there was an actual mutiny.  Frank is going to be awesome. Ben Gordon is still only 28 which means the last two years when he sucked and the next couple should be his prime.  Ultimately, his worth is tied more than anything else to how well he shoots the ball and while some players ala Steve Kerr may be able to come in and hit a shot here or there, Ben Gordon is not accustomed to that role.  His best moments as a Pistons seem to have all been when he felt comfortable that he would see extended minutes.  I'm pretty sure he will will be feeling more confidant of minutes to start the season, and I am hopeful that he will shoot well and return to some form. The Bulls were trapped in mediocrity when they didn’t have good bigs.  That first round playoff series with Bos coincided with the emergence of Noah.
The Pistons have been mediocre since the the decline of Rasheed Wallace.
Ben Gordon’s regular season numbers for his career compared with those of Reggie Miller’s at the same point in their careers on the day of signing but this is certainly his put up or shut up year.
I didn’t like the signing when it was made because I pretty much only like players that fit my vision of a Piston to a T and he just doesn’t, but I’m not that inclined to doubt his return to form, which doesn’t have to mean twenty points a game by the way; there is no reason why he couldn’t score 17 or 18 and even be an all around better player.
I don’t like the point that his struggles last year disproves that he lost the previous season to injury,  From what I’ve noticed over the years it more often then not takes a player two yeas to recover completely from losing a year to injury.  Further, however you assign blame to RIP, McGrady and Kuester limiting him–I’m more inclined to not analyze and just call the entire thing chaos. One year was lost to injury and chaos and the other offers a host of reasons why nearly any player might have struggled.
Some ESPN writer can compliment Kuester;s offense all they want, but the team seemed to hate and not believe him and there was an actual mutiny.  Frank is going to be awesome.
Ben Gordon is still only 28 which means the last two years when he sucked and the next couple should be his prime.  Ultimately, his worth is tied more than anything else to how well he shoots the ball and while some players ala Steve Kerr may be able to come in and hit a shot here or there, Ben Gordon is not accustomed to that role.  His best moments as a Pistons seem to have all been when he felt comfortable that he would see extended minutes.  I’m pretty sure he will will be feeling more confidant of minutes to start the season, and I am hopeful that he will shoot well and return to some form.

]]> By: Youssif http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/comment-page-1/#comment-38766 Youssif Fri, 23 Dec 2011 00:37:52 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/#comment-38766 Sorry, forgot to state my point: the better the Pistons get, the better Gordon will be. Keeping the icing analogy alive: you can't bake a watery cake and expect the icing to make it all taste good. But the better a cake you bake, the better the icing will taste. Sidenote, I'm feeling some cake right about now. Sorry, forgot to state my point: the better the Pistons get, the better Gordon will be. Keeping the icing analogy alive: you can’t bake a watery cake and expect the icing to make it all taste good. But the better a cake you bake, the better the icing will taste.

Sidenote, I’m feeling some cake right about now.

]]> By: Youssif http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/comment-page-1/#comment-38765 Youssif Fri, 23 Dec 2011 00:34:51 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/#comment-38765 You know what else is nearly unprecedented? A roster of players who, almost completely top to bottom (Including CV and Daye, excluding JJ, Max, Monroe and Big Ben) are all shooting guards. BG is good for a playoff team that needs a guy to step up and put up points to keep them in a game (see: Boston vs. Chicago a few years ago, and I really don't think it was a fluke). He's not good to build a team around, he's not going to be the second best guy on a championship team, and he's not going to take you very far if you're hinging your playoff/title hopes primarily on his scoring. He's like icing -- you need the cake before you can talk about having him. Very situational, not the heart and soul of a team. You know what else is nearly unprecedented? A roster of players who, almost completely top to bottom (Including CV and Daye, excluding JJ, Max, Monroe and Big Ben) are all shooting guards.

BG is good for a playoff team that needs a guy to step up and put up points to keep them in a game (see: Boston vs. Chicago a few years ago, and I really don’t think it was a fluke). He’s not good to build a team around, he’s not going to be the second best guy on a championship team, and he’s not going to take you very far if you’re hinging your playoff/title hopes primarily on his scoring.

He’s like icing — you need the cake before you can talk about having him. Very situational, not the heart and soul of a team.

]]> By: Youssif http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/comment-page-1/#comment-38762 Youssif Fri, 23 Dec 2011 00:14:31 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/#comment-38762 What are you smoking and where can I get it? What are you smoking and where can I get it?

]]> By: lk#1 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/comment-page-1/#comment-38747 lk#1 Thu, 22 Dec 2011 19:52:41 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/#comment-38747 I still believe in him. He needs a good start to the season. Probably the problem is in his head - he needs to feel like a major part of that team. There were small samples of games when he looked liked the old Ben (e.g. beginning of the first season with Rip injured - i don't remember the stats because it was such a long time ago but i thought he would be a force offensively for the Pistons). I think it was a depressing situation for him. He signed a huge contract with a respected team but everything went wrong. I guess he will get minutes to get confident and his scoring will be back. He may not be a long-term answer for the team but he's got the potential to lead it offensively. I still believe in him. He needs a good start to the season. Probably the problem is in his head – he needs to feel like a major part of that team. There were small samples of games when he looked liked the old Ben (e.g. beginning of the first season with Rip injured – i don’t remember the stats because it was such a long time ago but i thought he would be a force offensively for the Pistons). I think it was a depressing situation for him. He signed a huge contract with a respected team but everything went wrong.

I guess he will get minutes to get confident and his scoring will be back. He may not be a long-term answer for the team but he’s got the potential to lead it offensively.

]]> By: neutes http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/comment-page-1/#comment-38745 neutes Thu, 22 Dec 2011 19:47:15 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/#comment-38745 Huh? Huh?

]]> By: khandor http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/comment-page-1/#comment-38743 khandor Thu, 22 Dec 2011 19:26:11 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/#comment-38743 Until Ben Gordon is used consistently at the PG position there is little chance that he will ever play at a level which approaches his maximum capacity, as a top flight NBA player. Unfortunately for Ben, to this point in his NBA career he has not had the luxury of playing for a coach who actually knows how to use him properly, according to his specific individual strengths and weaknesses [i.e. encompassing both his physical skills and his character traits]. This is not a rare situation in the NBA, however, as a great many players routinely have their pro careers ruined by relatively poor coaches who really have no business whatsoever being thought of as amongst the best practicioners in the basketball world. The closest player from the past who Ben Gordon actually resembles is Gus Williams, who ... as a legitimate combo guard ... was good enough to win a NBA Title, in Seattle, while manning the PG position, under the direction of Lenny Wilkens [i.e. coach and former NBA HOF player]. Indeed, it takes a very special coach to know how exactly to develop a team with a player like Ben Gordon at the helm ... and the simple fact is that there are very few of these in the NBA. Until Ben Gordon is used consistently at the PG position there is little chance that he will ever play at a level which approaches his maximum capacity, as a top flight NBA player. Unfortunately for Ben, to this point in his NBA career he has not had the luxury of playing for a coach who actually knows how to use him properly, according to his specific individual strengths and weaknesses [i.e. encompassing both his physical skills and his character traits]. This is not a rare situation in the NBA, however, as a great many players routinely have their pro careers ruined by relatively poor coaches who really have no business whatsoever being thought of as amongst the best practicioners in the basketball world. The closest player from the past who Ben Gordon actually resembles is Gus Williams, who … as a legitimate combo guard … was good enough to win a NBA Title, in Seattle, while manning the PG position, under the direction of Lenny Wilkens [i.e. coach and former NBA HOF player]. Indeed, it takes a very special coach to know how exactly to develop a team with a player like Ben Gordon at the helm … and the simple fact is that there are very few of these in the NBA.

]]> By: Adam http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/comment-page-1/#comment-38742 Adam Thu, 22 Dec 2011 19:19:05 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/#comment-38742 I think that Gordon may surprise some people this year. If he's given the 30+ minutes a game, I think he'll be back to averaging about 18 points a game. I don't buy that he doesn't care. He has just seemed so lost and without a role over the past two seasons that he didn't know how to react. Coupling that with Hamilton being in the same position and the stress of living up to a large contract, he just couldn't get it done. If he's able to get the minutes and touches, which they should do at least for half of a season to see if there is anything less, he will at least return to a productive player again. I think that Gordon may surprise some people this year. If he’s given the 30+ minutes a game, I think he’ll be back to averaging about 18 points a game.
I don’t buy that he doesn’t care. He has just seemed so lost and without a role over the past two seasons that he didn’t know how to react. Coupling that with Hamilton being in the same position and the stress of living up to a large contract, he just couldn’t get it done.
If he’s able to get the minutes and touches, which they should do at least for half of a season to see if there is anything less, he will at least return to a productive player again.

]]> By: Scott http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/comment-page-1/#comment-38741 Scott Thu, 22 Dec 2011 19:12:36 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/12/ben-gordon-returning-to-form-would-be-nearly-unprecedented/#comment-38741 one word: AMNESTY!!! one word: AMNESTY!!!

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