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No player’s offense drops more against a good defense than Charlie Villanueva’s

Neil Paine of Basketball-Reference rated how players perform against each above- and below-average defenses, and no player who played at least 520 minutes against each type of defense, had a bigger drop in production between facing bad defenses and good defenses than Charlie Villanueva (hat tip: tarsier). In other words, Villanueva feasted on bad defenses and struggled against good defenses.

I’ve already explained why Villanueva’s rebounding stats in Milwaukee overrated his actual ability on the glass, and this is just another example of Villanueva looking better than he actually is. His game is all smoke and mirrors. There’s a reason he’s never made the playoffs.

On the other hand, Tayshaun Prince had the 20th-best offensive production against above-average defenses relative to his production against below-average defenses. Attention, playoff teams with assets for a sign-and-trade. Attention, playoff teams with assets for a sign-and-trade.*

*I still don’t think the Pistons will sign-and-trade Prince, unless they get Chris Kaman from the Clippers.

13 Comments

  • Jul 29, 201111:35 am
    by PK

    Reply

    I know there are a lot of options, and that CV’s contract isn’t that big, but he has to be the worst contract on the books right? I mean, gordon, rip and even maxiell are guys you might want on your team at some price, just not the one they’re currently being paid. But villanueva? No matter the cost he is a liability and not an asset. Its one thing to over pay good players, but to sign a player like charlie is just a colossal mistake.

  • Jul 29, 201112:45 pm
    by Jacob

    Reply

    A year ago at this time it was a debate on who would start at PF – JJ or CV. Now it’s not even a question between those 2. Even after missing a season with injury I think 99% of Pistons fans would want Jerebko. The reality is that CV’s expectations were way too high to begin with. He had 1 good season with a bad Milwaukee team and we bit on him. He should really just be expected to be at the back of the rotation – 8th man maybe – and give you about 20 minutes of helping spread the floor, knock down a few 3s and hopefully play D against the other team’s 2nd unit. Unfortunately he’s getting starter’s money when he should be getting about $3 mil per. Despite that, I think we should all just lower our expectations and let him be what he is – or try to trade him.

    • Jul 29, 20117:19 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      correction: he had half a good season with milwaukee. and also a pretty decent rookie year with toronto.

  • Jul 29, 201112:46 pm
    by khandor

    Reply

    Hi, Dan. If I had told you, in advance, that an authentic elite level basketball coach could have told you the equivalent of, “No other player’s individual ‘offensive game’ drops more against a high calibre defense than does Charlie Villanueva’s,” … without having to look at any seasonal/career stats, at all, would you have believed me? Charlie V is a bad player and should never have been used by John Kuester for copious amounts of minutes during the last 2 seasons, considering just how poor his “individual offensive” is against good opponents AND how poor his team defense, individual defense, shot-blocking and rebounding are, in general. Joe Dumars made a mistake in acquiring CV when he did, since Villanueva is the type of player who can only really help a championship-calibre team if he is used off the bench for his situational offense in VERY limited amounts of minutes, ala a “poor man’s” Brian Scalabrine.

    • Jul 29, 20111:25 pm
      by rob

      Reply

      Agreed 100% If a player is going to suck as bad he does at every other aspect of the game, aside from 3pt shooting, you would think they could at least be consistent with, no matter what defense they face.

      What this stat really means is that against a good defensive team, CV should never get in the game, as he is literally useless. He cant defend, rebound, block-shots, never passes, and now has no offense either? Useless.

  • Jul 29, 201112:52 pm
    by khandor

    Reply

    Dan, the Pistons SHOULD not be trying to acquire a player like Chris Kaman … who, in his own way, is actually the Center equivalent to Charlie Villanueva, at the PF position. Using your same line of thinking, re: Villanueva … There’s a good reason why Kaman’s teams in the NBA have been less-than stellar.

  • Jul 29, 201112:54 pm
    by khandor

    Reply

    Dan, if the Pistons would like to add a player from the current Clipper’s roster then they should look seriously at DeAndre Jordan, if they can add him for a reasonable dollar amount.

    • Jul 29, 20111:21 pm
      by rob

      Reply

      Clippers arent trading Jordan unless its for a better big man, or all-star at another position, imo. The only reason they are shopping Kaman is because they like Jordan better.

  • Jul 29, 20111:19 pm
    by rob

    Reply

    Nice stat find. Cant say I’m surprised either way though. CV is a soft-azz jump shooting big man. I know from watching all the great Pistons defenses over the years, that players like CV are the ones that get shut down easily by a good/tough defense.

    Vice versa for Prince. He’s played against all the best defenses of this era at the highest levels, and knows how to still produce in a grind out game. 

    Nice credit to Tayshaun, and another negative on CV’s long list.

    Tay 4 Kaman is my #1 trade I hope the Pistons make this off-season.

    • Jul 29, 20112:21 pm
      by khandor

      Reply

      Rob, why on earth would you want to add a player like Kaman/C? … when he is strictly mediocre, as well.

  • Jul 29, 20113:19 pm
    by neutes

    Reply

    Didn’t think there were more ways to quantify the suckiness of Charlie V, but good find. Ok he sucks. We already knew he sucked. Now what?

    • Jul 29, 20114:54 pm
      by khandor

      Reply

      Either: i. Coach Frank should slot CV into the bottom end of the Pistons’ regular rotation, to be used properly, in only limited minutes, and his pouty attitude be damned; or ii. Joe D. should try and move CV to a team that fancies itself as a likely contender next season, e.g. Oklahoma, as a stretch-4 who can’t defend a lick, surrounded an otherwise good-to-very-good defensive squad, without asking for a truckload of assets in return. Losing CV from the Pistons’ roster is the epitome of addition by subtraction.

  • Jul 29, 20117:17 pm
    by tarsier

    Reply

    Wow, I put this link in a comment on the post about Villanueva playing Prince earlier this morning. So were you already writing the post or did you really read the comment, follow the link, and write u a post in about half an hour?Because that would be impressive.

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