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Joe Dumars ranked the ninth-best shooting guard of the last 30 years

Dennis Velasco of The Basketball Jones, who ranked Isiah Thomas the third-best point guard of the last three decades, has moved to ranking the 10 best shooting guards of the last previous 30 years. Once again, a Piston made the list:

9. Joe Dumars, Detroit Pistons (1985-1999)
1018 G; 16.1 PPG; 4.5 APG, 2.2 RPG; 1.0 3PTM; 46.0 FG%; 84.3 FT%; 0.9 SPG

Dumars will not wow you with his statistics in the same vein as Ginobili, but if you watched him play, he’s deserving of being in the top 10 . He was the first player to be considered a Michael Jordan “stopper,” which is the stuff of legend. And by that I mean it’s a bit exaggerated as no one could actually stop MJ, but (pardon the cliche) only hope to contain him. This is not to disparage Joe Cool because he earned the hardware and respect as a player to be made a Hall of Famer.

Dumars played in six All-Star games, was named to three All-NBA teams, five All-Defensive teams (four first team selections) and chosen as the NBA Finals MVP in 1989. He’s one of those players that did anything it took to win a game. However, his average PER (15.3) probably doesn’t really show how important Dumars was to the Pistons. Dumars finished his career with a 113 ORtg.

Dumars was boring in comparison to the rest of the Bad Boys, such as the fiery Isiah Thomas, enigmatic Dennis Rodman, wise-cracking John Salley and the eternally grimacing Bill Laimbeer and Rick Mahorn. Dumars just went about his job, which holds a special place to the blue-collar community of Detroit. Humble and hard-working describe Dumars best.

I would’ve ranked Dumars eighth, ahead of Mitch Richmond, whom Velasco had eighth. I was a bit surprised Richmond stacks up so closely with Dumars, but Dumars’ defense and class should give him the edge.

13 Comments

  • Jul 13, 20119:59 am
    by khandor

    Reply

    First. Joe Dumars should be categorized as a combo Guard [OG/PG], not strictly as an Off Guard.
    Second. Given the other players on this specific list, Joe Dumars should be ranked as the No. 5 Off Guard of the last 30 years, behind only: 1. MJ; 2. Kobe; 3. Drexler; and, 4. Wade.
    When ALL aspects of the game are evaluated properly, Joe D. was a far superior basketball player than each of the other 5 recognized on this list.

    • Jul 13, 201110:14 am
      by Dan Feldman

      Reply

      Seriously, you need to start actually backing up your point in your comments. The act of just stating things with no reasoning behind them is getting old.

      • Jul 13, 201111:30 am
        by khandor

        Reply

        Dan, how exactly would you suggest I attempt to “back-up” my observation that Joe Dumars was actually the 5th best player on this list when you consider ALL of the aspects involved with being an elite level basketball player? … including such things like: i. Defensive Ability, on the ball; ii. Defensive Ability, off the ball; iii. Reading the play correctly [both, offensively and defensively]; Switchability; iv. Personal Toughness [e.g. mental, physical, emotional]; v. “Play-making” ability [btw, not limited to just having "offensive skill/judgment with the ball in his hands" ... but the ability to execute effectively whatever was needed for his team to win in a major way] … etc., and that go way beyond simple stats like Off Eff, Def Eff, Reb %, etc., when considering his performance at his actual position [i.e. as a terrific combo guard].
        If I was actually writing my dissertation on this specific subject then that would be a different matter altogether. This, however, is a simple message board, on the internet, designed for those who would like to share their “thoughts and ideas” about the Detroit Pistons … is it not?

    • Jul 13, 201111:24 am
      by brgulker

      Reply

      Dumars played very little PG.

      • Jul 13, 201111:32 am
        by khandor

        Reply

        Ben, when Zeke was on the bench and Vinnie was in the game, then, according to you, who exactly functioned as the Pistons’ PG?

        • Jul 13, 201112:24 pm
          by brgulker

          Reply

          Zeke played 36+ plus minutes per game during the regular season, and more than that during the Playoffs during the Bad Bay heyday. I didn’t say Dumars didn’t play any PG; I said he played very little. Which is, simply, true. His natural and primary role was SG, which is where he played the majority of his minutes, except when by necessity, he played some PG.

          “Combo guard” overstates his actual role (especially late in his career, when playing alongside a guy like Grant Hill who was functionally the PG even though listed at SF), and lumps him in with contemporary “combo guards” who get labeled that way because they aren’t particularly outstanding at anything most PGs or SGs do.

          • Jul 13, 201112:58 pm
            by khandor

            Ben, #1. I did not say that you said, “Joe Dumars didn’t play any PG.” I asked you a specific question which, btw, you have yet to answer. :-) #2. You are free to think that Joe D. – at 6-3 and 190, according to basketball-reference.com – does not quality as a legitimate “Combo Guard” if you wish.

  • Jul 13, 201110:04 am
    by neutes

    Reply

    I’d put Sidney Moncrief ahead of Dumars. And wasn’t AI a SG for the majority of his career? Vincanity? No disagreement with the top 4 on that list. I’d put Allen ahead of Miller. Top 6 are the top 6 no matter the order though. After that there could be some debate.

    • Jul 13, 20111:29 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      They ranked Iverson among the point guards on that countdown for some reason.

  • Jul 13, 201111:24 am
    by brgulker

    Reply

    Too bad Manu’s had so many injuries. He probably still should be higher, but I understand why he wouldn’t get ranked higher.

    But Mitch Richmond? Really?

    • Jul 13, 201111:45 am
      by khandor

      Reply

      Ben, My assessment of these 10 players would have Manu Ginobili [#6] listed immediately after Joe D. [#5] – and could certainly understand if someone else would choose to place him above Dumars – which intends no slight whatsoever towards Ray Allen [#7], Reggie Miller [#8], Tracy McGrady [#9] and Mitch Richmond [#10], who were/are each fine players in their own right.

    • Jul 13, 20111:30 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I believe Jordan once said that Mitch Richmond was the best two guard he ever played against. Those Sacramento teams he was on were mis though.

  • Jul 13, 201112:23 pm
    by JoshB

    Reply

    I don’t have much of an issue with Richmond especially when you consider the teams he was playing on. The likelihood that he was gonna win a championship in those settings were pretty low, but I do have somewhat of an issue with T-mac. His numbers are amazing no doubt, but just like we give guys extra credit for perceived intangibles, shouldn’t they have points deducted when they seem to have qualities that are working against them negatively? I don’t think He was ever on a team that had a real chance to win it all, but with that kind of ability shouldn’t he have been able to find a little more success? I really don’t know where he ranks for me

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