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Vincent Goodwill and Vince Ellis call DaJuan Summers one of the Pistons’ most mature players last season

We don’t hear much about DaJuan Summers, the forward who’s spent two non-descript years at the end of the Pistons’ bench. But a pair of Detroit writers tweeted highly of him last night.

Vincent Goodwill of The Detroit News*:

I’d venture to say Summers and Greg Monroe were the two most mature #Pistons this season…

Vince Ellis of the Detroit Free Press*:

Agree with @vgoodwill comments on DaJuan and Monroe.

I know what you’re thinking, because I had the same thought. Well, Goodwill went a step further*:

@Steward2778 actually that’s saying a lot. They’d be mature guys in veteran locker rooms too. Just no-nonsense guys in any environment

*These tweets reflects well on John Thompson III, who coached Monroe and Summers at Georgetown.

This revelation makes me even more upset the Pistons didn’t trade Tayshaun Prince to the Mavericks at the trade deadline. Does Detroit have a reliable idea what it has in Summers? He enters free agency this summer without many NBA minutes under his belt and the Pistons unlikely to retain him.

With a renewed emphasis on high-character players, shouldn’t Summer get an extended look?

I don’t believe Summers is a complete unknown to the Pistons. They saw him in practice, and there must have been a reason he didn’t play ahead of Prince, Austin Daye and the other Pistons who saw time at small forward (Tracy McGrady and Richard Hamilton). It’s not like Detroit just randomly kept Summers on the bench.

But without seeing him play more meaningful minutes, the Pistons can’t completely evaluate Summers. Some players perform better in games than in practice, and although only the former actually counts, the latter is important for getting a chance at the former.

Summers’ situation with Detroit resembles Arron Afflalo’s. Afflalo played limited minutes backing up Richard Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince before the Pistons traded him to the Nuggets. Denver made him a starter, and his career took off.

Summers isn’t necessarily on the same track, but at least one coach thinks he is. Goodwill:

@WTFDetroit Summers has a good agent and has conducted himself professionally, one coach said his next stop is where he’ll put it together

There are signs Summers won’t follow Afflalo’s path, though.

As Patrick has pointed out, the Pistons haven’t put out word about Summers working hard and asking the veterans for advice like they have with other young players. Maybe that’s just the Pistons failing to get the story out, or maybe Summers isn’t an especially hard worker. There’s a difference between maturity and work ethic, and maybe Summers has one but not the other.

So, I don’t have a firm opinion on whether the Pistons should re-sign Summers, but I’m not convinced they do, either. That’s a bigger problem for them than for me.

Either way, I have more respect for Summers after reading Goodwill’s and Ellis’ tweets. Best of luck to him wherever he plays next year, even if things never work out like we once hoped they would in Detroit.


  • Jun 29, 201110:09 am
    by brgulker


    I don’t believe Summers is a complete unknown to the Pistons. 

    I don’t agree with this. As you mentioned, they saw him in practice. Kuester did a lot of things poorly, but one thing he did was play young players ahead of veterans if they deserved it. Stuckey ahead of Gordon, Jerebko ahead of Charlie V, and even to begin last season, Daye ahead of Charlie V. 

    In short, if he’d earned it, Kuester would have played him. The fact that he didn’t play says something important.

    Further, when he did play, Summer wasn’t impressive. He had his moments, sure, but overall, Summers didn’t outplay anyone with whom he was competing for minutes.

    He’s simply not a rotation player in the NBA. At most, he’s a fill-up-the-roster kind of guy.

    • Jun 29, 201110:15 am
      by getsomepistons


      Not true.  Kuester didn’t play a lot of people when they deserved it, which was a large contributor towards him losing the team.  McGrady would get  benched after starting at PG and displaying fantastic chemistry with Monroe.  Hamilton would ride the pine for weeks and come back to lead the team in scoring.
      I could go down the list.  Summers was going to be no better than third on the depth chart at SF and PF, but it’s a near certainty that he would have been toyed with had he even earned more playing time.

      • Jun 29, 201112:10 pm
        by brgulker


        You missed the nuance of my point. What I said was that Kuester demonstrated that he was willing to play young players over veterans when they earned it.

        I even left out Monroe, who’s the most obvious example of this. 

        The point is that if Summers had proven that he were a better option as a backup than Daye or Wilcox or Maxiell, he’d have gotten extended minutes. The fact that he didn’t should tell us that he didn’t earn those minutes in practice.

        • Jun 29, 20114:47 pm
          by Laser


          i just don’t think your assertion is true, and i don’t understand how a smart guy who paid attention last season could think it is. the pistons were not a meritocracy last season. he could have BLOWN THEM AWAY like a lawrence frank interview and i still think he’d have a hard time leapfrogging three highly-paid veterans, a highly-drafted project, a household name, and the golden boy. i don’t think he ever had a realistic chance on this roster.

          if we were talking about an actual NBA organization here (one that didn’t appear to be run by a bunch of clueless, feckless assholes), you might have a case. but we know WAY too much to give the organization any credit along those lines.

    • Jun 29, 201111:13 am
      by Dan Feldman


      Gulker, what do you disagree with? Isn’t that essentially what I said?

      • Jun 29, 201112:08 pm
        by brgulker


        But without seeing him play more meaningful minutes, the Pistons can’t completely evaluate Summers

        Only this part. I think they can evaluate him very thoroughly, after having him in practice, spot minutes in games, and the summer league.

        In Summers you have a guy who can’t beat out Austin Daye or Rip Hamilton for backup minutes at the 3, and as a result, you’ve got a guy who’s probably not roster-worthy.

        • Jun 29, 20114:51 pm
          by Dan Feldman


          I think they can evaluate him well, but there’s a difference between well and completely.

        • Jun 29, 20114:51 pm
          by Laser


          your assumption that there was an open competition of any kind baffles me. you could probably step onto the court and be more effective than charlie villanueva, but dude was on the books for lots of years and money, and you can’t cut him or gordon out of the rotation without underscoring what a mistake it was to bring them here in the first place.

          we know he’s stronger, worked harder, and hustled more than villanueva. the one thing charlie can supposedly do well is shoot the ball, and summers was a better shooter. and they’re both black holes. please stop assuming there’s any rhyme or reason to who got to play beyond the obvious (highly-paid players, big names, golden boys, first round projects, and the like).

          • Jun 30, 20119:20 am
            by brgulker

            I’m not assuming anything. I’m making an argument based on facts, and then making inferences that appear to be supported by those facts. Understand the difference?

            We know for a fact that John Kuester was willing to play young players over highly-paid veterans. Jonas Jerebko is the perfect example of this. A second-round pick from Sweden that nobody expected to contribute started over the newly-signed Charlie Villanueva. Love Kuester or hate him, that did take some stones.

            We can infer from this fact, given that Summers and Jerebko were touted by the team as combo forward with versatility to play multiple positions, that Summers did not outplay Jerebko. Why can we infer this? Because Jerebko started, and Summers did not.  We can also infer from this that Summers did not outplay Charlie V? Why can we infer this? Because Kuester didn’t hesitate to bench big money players in favor of youth, as demonstrated with the JJ/Charlie arrangement. 

            That is not to say that I think all of Kuester’s moves were this calculated (i.e., I’m not arguing that there was rhyme or reason to everything he did). I’m saying that in this specific instance, there are very good reasons to believe that Kuester did not believe Summers was NBA-ready.

            And we can further say, given the franchise hasn’t extended a QO, that the management of the team feels similarly.

            I think that’s pretty well-supported by facts.

            Now I’ll give my opinion: the Pistons are right about this one. Summers hasn’t demonstrated he’s a rotation-caliber player.

            Now I’ll give a prediction: Summers won’t become a productive NBA who regularly contributes to the rotation of a winning team.  He wasn’t outstanding in college, and he didn’t develop at the professional level. Those types of players don’t stick for a reason. The only reason we’re debating this is because he wore the jersey of our favorite team, and there’s bias as a result.

          • Jun 30, 20113:44 pm
            by Laser

            you said he couldn’t beat out rip or daye for PT. you weren’t privy to what went on behind closed doors, so your assertion is based on an assumption that the pistons organization is run like a standard professional sports team, where performance is paramount. i saw with my own eyes that this wasn’t the case, so i’ll make no assumptions about how deserving summers was of playing time.

            rip was a co-captain and was given way too many chances for anyone to say he “earned” the minutes he got. he was also our highest paid player and someone we’ve wanted to trade for years. so he had to play. there you have a bunch of reasons he’s going to get minutes, without having to even consider his on-court performance.

            daye was a first-round pick who detroit knew would be a project. if you don’t give him some burn, you’ve wasted a perfectly good mid-first round pick. also, by last season it became abundantly clear to everyone that this team needed playmaking, and dumars passed on some nice young point guards to draft daye. personally, i’d never ever draft a project like daye at small forward (who’s going to require as much time to develop as any big man), but now that you drafted him you have to follow through. he’s a potential matchup nightmare down the road, and nobody would ever argue summers had a higher ceiling, so he was one piston who needed more than anyone. maybe more than monroe. after one year, monroe is widely (and probably rightly) considered our best player; heading into his third season, daye remains a project with no reasonable timetable yet to emerge as a complete player.

            you just won’t convince me that summers ever stood a chance here.

            i think the pistons had 13 rotation-quality players who could contribute in the right role and system, but basically everyone on the roster is a role player with major flaws, and there was never much of a clear pecking order. you’ve got a bunch of players, mostly on the perimeter, few of whom had actual positions, and when that’s the case it can easily come down to a simple numbers game. when kuester cut rip and bynum out of the rotation (bynum was wisely reinserted after one game), he said himself that it was just a numbers game. there are only 240 minutes to go around, and you’d like to have some consistency, right?

            every healthy body started at least once. everyone except ben gordon got a DNP-CD, and he accomplished nothing on the floor all season, making him a prime candidate for a temporary benching. rip started well past the point when it was obvious he was ineffective. stuckey stunk up the place, regressed and rebelled all season, and he was basically entrenched, even after his slaps on the wrist and persistent petulance and ineffectiveness. one of daye or maxiell started at PF for such a long stretch to start the season it could make your head spin, and neither was any good.

            we all saw enough evidence last season that the pistons did not operate on a level playing field and that there were plenty of reasons (whether good or not) why someone who’s basically as good as the 12 other mediocre players gets squeezed out. daye, jerebko and monroe weren’t all going to work here, and nobody could have sensibly predicted they would. and all you need to do is point to the numbers game. no assumptions necessary.

          • Jun 30, 20114:01 pm
            by Laser

            also: on jerebko v summers…

            the stated reason for jerebko being our emergency SF when tayshaun went down was that jerebko had two years of professional experience under his belt in europe and was more ready to defend opposing SFs. makes sense, too. he blasted out of the gate and his play made it impossible to bench him. i don’t think you’d get any argument from anyone if you said he was our best player. i also don’t think you’d get any argument if you said he’s objectively better than summers. tayshaun is objectively better than summers, too. but the merit-based pecking order ends there. jonas and tayshaun are rocks. but tayshaun’s one of the few players whose role and minutes were 100% justified, and jonas was out.

            the issue is with the rest of the pack: stuckey, bynum, mcgrady, rip, gordon, daye and even charlie v. a bunch of flawed, unspectacular players that each have perfectly comprehensible (whether justified or not) reasons to play ahead of summers. regardless of ability. if you’ve got eight equally unspectacular perimeter players (and i’m sure summers is flawed, too. i can’t possibly stress enough that i’m not arguing that summers is great, just that i don’t TRUST this organization enough to assume that he was squeezed out of the rotation by being a worse player than the guys in front of him), not everybody is going to be able to play. it’s a numbers game.

            i always considered you one of the more astute commenters here, but god only knows where you got this faith in the organization that they’re running things properly.

          • Jun 30, 20114:37 pm
            by Laser

            ok, a bit more: what kuester thinks or doesn’t think is irrelevant to me. the man proved his incompetence and fecklessness again and again this season. rather, i’d probably assume that whatever decisions he made were the wrong ones and just go ahead and do the opposite. the season certainly would have gone better. i’d say the same for the organization, as well. the exact same. they haven’t done a thing to regain my trust after working so hard and so consistently since 2008 to lose it. so based on nothing other than their recent track record of being the worst front office in the NBA, giving away guys like Chauncey and Afflalo for nothing, locking up both Gordon and Rip to rich long-term contracts, and with their rotten cap situation, i wouldn’t trust their judgment on whether or not he merited a qualifying offer. that said, a quick glance at our current roster size says it all. i count thirteen guys under contract if the pistons give all three draft picks a roster spot. terrico white would make fourteen (i doubt he gets a qualifying offer. probably because he’s “not good enough,” right? couldn’t possibly be a simple numbers game. naw, couldn’t be that.), and i haven’t even gotten to tracy or tayshaun (either of whom the organization could make a case to at least try to bring back). i’m absolutely 100% certain the front office would like to add another big man, whether that means bringing wilcox back or not, or whether they get this big man through trade or free agency. and they’ve said in plain english that, all things being equal, it’s the organization’s preference to have an open roster spot to maintain flexibility. ok, so you’re going to pay summers a million dollars and very possibly have to cut him anyways, because you have no idea how the rest of the offseason is going to play out. once again, it’s easy to make sense of these things independent of his abilities. if the pistons had taken a big man with #33 it would be easier to justify keeping summers at such a low price, but they didn’t. singler’s a cheaper alternative, and passing on a big man with our first two picks greatly increased the likelihood that we’d end up giving a roster spot to the big man we had to snag with #52. once again, i’ve proven to be both skeptical and open-minded, asking questions and looking at the big picture, taking in all the angles… you know, the usual laser stuff. and most of all, no longer trusting this organization to make sense. once you start viewing this organization as being run by feckless assholes who have no plan or clue, only a staunch belief that everything they do is right and everything that goes wrong is the result of bad luck. oh, also: 42.9% on threes. why ignore that? i guess it’s convenient or something. a meaningless little offensive category and, oddly enough, the one area of his game where the pistons did not get a sample size sufficient to judge his performance. and finally: kudos on your stance that a second-round pick who’s wallowed in obscurity for his first two seasons doesn’t probably break out and make an impact in the NBA. i don’t know how you mustered that bold prediction, but you’ve certainly gone out on a limb and i admire that. you know who else isn’t probably going to make an impact on the NBA? let’s say exactly half of the guys ahead of him in last year’s perimeter rotation. and that’s what you don’t seem to get. i’m not high on summers, i just don’t think he’s any worse than, say, charlie villanueva.

          • Jun 30, 20114:38 pm
            by Laser

            my apologies for the big block of text. it didn’t post the first time and got messed the f up. you probably won’t read it now. but you should.

  • Jun 29, 201110:12 am
    by getsomepistons


    I was going to twitter rant to Ellis about this, but this is another reason for an expanded D League.  I’m not of the opinion that players assigned to the D League need to count against the NBA team’s active roster.  Every stint that PF Macklin or SF Singler spend with the Mad Ants are games that Dajuan Summers could have spent with the Pistons on the active roster at either of those positions.

    • Jun 29, 20114:55 pm
      by Dan Feldman


      There’s a con to that plan. Owners would have to spend more money on more players. It’s easy to spend someone else’s money.

    • Jun 29, 20115:30 pm
      by tarsier


      Why is it a problem if they count against the roster? Just about every team has more than 12 guys, which is all you can have in a game anyway (realistically, how often do more than ten play?). So it’s only if your roster is really injury depleted that losing one or two or three reserve roster spots to the D-league should present any problems.

      • Jun 30, 201112:45 am
        by Laser


        i reckon literally every team has more than 12 guys. i think the roster minimum is 13. i’m not going to fact-check this, though, because i don’t think that would be honest of me. i’m going with my gut.

  • Jun 29, 201110:18 am
    by neutes


    I agree with Ben. Summers didn’t produce given his minutes, and there are players in the NBA that do produce in limited minutes, but still aren’t given the minutes to succeed. He doesn’t rebound at all. His one redeeming trait is his 3-point shot. At best he’s a James Jones. He could find a spot on an up-tempo team shooting spot-up 3′s I suppose.

  • Jun 29, 201110:33 am
    by @DetroitBuckets


    This shouldn’t be a revelation to anyone. We heard several times over the last 2 years from multiple voices how good of a teammate Summers has been. How he always worked hard and was never involved with any of the shenanigans. But that shouldn’t have any impact on whether or not we traded Tay.
    I had high hopes from Summers out of college, but the fact is that he’s never lived up to it. He’s shown very little. Sure, his opportunities have been far and few between. But it’s from a player in that predicament that I expect to go all out and show what he can do when he is given floor time. Summers didn’t do that. I question his hunger. Will Bynum is a fighter. Makes the most of his opportunities. Earned a contract. Summers hasn’t. High character guy or not.
    As @getsomepistons suggests, utilization of the Ants should be something the Pistons are more involved in. Summers in particular could have greatly benefited IMO by playing.
    He’s a good kid, and he has brighter days ahead of him, but those days aren’t here in Detroit. Wish him the best of success but I’m not going to regret us letting him go to another franchise. You can’t just keep holding onto players hoping they eventually show up. Time is limited. At some point you have to make a judgement call.

  • Jun 29, 201112:19 pm
    by Laser



    1) Feldman, the notion that you (or anyone) assume there’s some rhyme or reason why Summers didn’t play is asinine. The fact that you still give this organization that kind of credit is astounding. What has this organization done in the past, say, three seasons to make you think they’re operating with a sound game plan that makes sense? Their recent track record suggests they have no plan and no clue.

    2) For a team that preached all season that players would earn their P.T. and that should have tried to push any button imaginable to get rolling, there’s a mountain of evidence that this was largely lip service. Daye got the nod over Villanueva to start the season (a predictably bad decision, BTW), but that’s basically it. Rip was allowed to start well past the point it was obvious he was ineffective; the season was lost by the time they shortened their perimeter rotation, which was ineffective all year long; Villanueva was in the rotation all season and had maybe five good games; Bynum played his heart out every second he was on the court and never got an honest chance to start (garbage games at the end of a lost season do not count).

    3) This was simply a natural result of having a roster JAM-PACKED with similarly gifted/flawed players; at a bare minimum, it comes down to a numbers game. How many perimeter players can you possibly have in one rotation? We didn’t have enough minutes to go around the SEVEN guys in the perimeter rotation! And each one of those guys had an easy explanation for why they were ahead of him in the pecking order, some having nothing to do with abilities or performance: Stuckey is (was, i hope) Dumars’s golden boy, so he plays no matter what; Prince was one or our two best players and deserved to be ahead of anyone; Bynum scratched and clawed for his role, we were desperately thin at the point, and he was in and out of the rotation as it was; Hamilton was our highest paid player, a co-captain, and Dumars has wanted to trade him as long as Gordon has been here, so playing him was the only way to establish value; we dropped a FAT ASS contract on Gordon two years ago, and he never did anything worth noting here, but we can’t have paid him all that money for nothing, right?; Daye was our first-round pick from two years ago, drafted ahead of Summers, was always a project, and they wanted to justify the pick (after passing on some good young PGs) and develop his potential to get a return on their investment; McGrady wasn’t signed here to sit, he had a name that Dumars probably thought would put butts in the seats, he was probably our third best player, one of our best playmakers on a team desperate for point play.

    So WHERE DOES HE PLAY?? There’s probably room for five perimeter players in a sensible rotation, six at max if you’ve got the kid of role players who can come in and be effective in spot duty. We had seven. Summers would have been eighth regardless of his performance, unless he hit every shot he ever took in practice, ever. And even then, he would have had to CLAW for P.T.

    4) As for the rubbish about never hearing that he worked hard and asking veterans for advice, I distinctly remember a blog by Keith Langlois from Summers’s rookie year that when Prince was injured and on the bench, Summers was glued to his ear, picking his brain, trying to absorb as much as humanly possible about what Prince was seeing and thinking. You might have forgotten this, but it happened.

    5) The Afflalo comparison says it all. Look what happened with that guy and tell me you trust Joe Dumars to make wise decisions like this. By now, the man should have lost every ounce of credit he earned during his tenure as GM. It’s impossible to know what you have in a player if he never plays. Summers played a lot less than Afflalo ever did here, and the parallels bother me to no end.

    6) I don’t buy Langlois’s stock knock on Summers that he doesn’t do one thing very well. The only thing Stuckey does well is penetrate, and that’s an utterly useless skill if you can’t kick it out or finish at the rim effectively. The secondary knock, that he’s a black hole, is probably valid… but dude shot .429 from long distance– by far the best three-point shooting percentage on the team. You should want this guy taking assisted shots from the long line. Also, this gives me the impression that he does, in fact, do one thing very well.

    Whatever. This is bogus. I hope he goes somewhere else and becomes a franchise player. There may not be any room for him now that we drafted Singler, but I can’t stand how this organization operates.

    • Jun 29, 201112:56 pm
      by brgulker


      Of all the things to get bent out of shape about, Summers’ not finding a spot in the rotation seems a puzzling one to pick. 

      Dude’s not an NBA-caliber player. This will be affirmed next season when he doesn’t end up in any other NBA team’s rotation.

      • Jun 29, 20114:56 pm
        by Laser


        to be clear: the only thing i’m truly bent out of shape about here (and both you and feldman are guilty of this) is the assumption that he didn’t play because he didn’t warrant playing time. all three of us have been paying too much attention to give the organization credit for operating with that kind of common sense. it has a lot less to do with any specific injustice that may or may not have been done to summers (since i don’t know anyone in the organization personally) and more to do with the notion that you guys give the organization the benefit of the doubt when it makes perfect sense how a perfectly good prospect (if summers, in fact, is one) could get squeezed into obscurity in a backcourt crowded with overpaid, big-name players for reasons other than his ability/performance/potential. i give both of you much more credit than that.

    • Jun 29, 20111:43 pm
      by Jason


      Couple things here – Gulker, you or no one else really knows whether he’s capable of being an NBA Caliber player. As noted in the post, he hasn’t played enough minutes for anyone to truly know what he could be capable of. Plain and simply put, there isn’t room on this roster for him, as unfortunate as it is. I’d love to see him stick around too, but it’s simply impractical at this point.
      Second, Laser – my man. Glad to see you have started to use Capital letters, it adds a little bit more credibility to your posts.. *Just joshing ya.. But in all seriousness, I do think your getting a little overly dramatic over this issue, but I guess one can only take so much bad news before going off on *not signing a guy who has played 20 minutes in the last 2 years. Nonetheless, I understand some of your points, the fact that Dummers was even drafted was puzzling, given the roster we had in place.
      And as far as Summers NOT asking veterans for advice, with the state this team has been in the last couple years, the negativity, the poor play, the unprofessional-ism, the lack of character – do you really blame the guy? lol. It seems he just wanted to keep himself focused, and out of the spotlight that was the Pistons negativity. Probably not a bad thing for a guy that can’t see the floor on a very bad team..
      Regardless, I agree with Dan – i’d of like to seen him play more minutes, but understand fully why we cannot extend a contract offer. More importantly, I too wish him future success, and hope he can figure things out with another team.

      • Jun 29, 20115:00 pm
        by Laser


        don’t get used to caps-lock, buddy. i go back and forth. this one i thought was important enough for it. and, like i said in my reply to ben gulker above, it has more to do with this astounding amount of undue credit feldman (and ben, himself) give the organization.

    • Jun 29, 20114:37 pm
      by Rodman4Life


      Amen ,Laser.
      Since when did Kuester establish any pattern of predictability?  How can anyone infer that because Summers didn’t play that means he didn’t EARN playing time?  C’mon, that’s a stretch.  He was just on the wrong team at the wrong time.  It happens to 2nd rounders in this league.

  • Jun 29, 20112:17 pm
    by Quick Darshan


    I remember DraftExpress making a comment last season about how Georgetown players always impress in interviews.  They’re all business.  They dress up.  Etc.

  • Jun 29, 20113:54 pm
    by Andrew


    I was very much upset when functionally traded Afflalo and Amir for Wilcox and Charlie V.  But Summers – meh.  When he did play he seemed disinterested and was a poor and unwilling passer.  He could shoot, but not well enough I think to be a useful specialist.  I doubt we’ll miss him (though I wish we could get Afflalo and Amir back).

    • Jun 29, 20115:03 pm
      by Laser


      that’s not quite how it happened. we effectively traded amir and afflalo for wilcox straight-up. charlie v was signed (along with gordon, natch) before those salary dumps using cap space we got from our shrewd trade of chauncey billups and antonio mcdyess.

  • Jun 29, 201111:15 pm
    by inigo montoya


    I think Summers appears to be a good guy and I was hoping for him to succeed.

    Given that, I was a little disappointed in Summers performance in the 6-man rotation game against the 76ers on Feb. 25th. He was the only small forward in that rotation.   Summers played 39 minutes, went 3 for 8, not bad, but only 2 rebounds.  Detroit got beat badly on the boards, 49-32 and Summers could only get 2 rebounds.

    I wish him success wherever he goes.  Just the Pistons luck, though, Summers will figure out rebounding and ball handling on some other team and Detroit could not just wait for him anymore.

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