Jun 26, 2011 • 9:45 pmby MrHappyMushroom
I’m kind of surprised I’m in such a minority that pegged this as a “below average” pick. It just seemed to me that a team that is miles away from being any good at all and has one reliable inside player (love Ben, but I think it likely that he’ll be as much a mentor as a playing force this year), that springing for a three who could end up being a complimentary piece makes a whole lot of sense.
Is it clear to most with better knowledge than I that he’s a significant upgrade over DuJuan Summers?
Jun 26, 2011 • 11:08 pmby tarsier
I agree. He seemed kinda a reach at that point. Joe D was sacrificing talent to draft for need (contrary to popular opinion we really probably do need another 3) and character. But the best players available at that point in the draft were PGs and I can kinda understand not wantin g to draft another PG with so many guards already on the roster.
Jun 27, 2011 • 4:53 pmby Dan Feldman
I’m not sure Singler is definitely an upgrade over DaJuan Summers. But he might be. At this point, Summers is what he is. The chance of improvement is better than knowing you’re getting an end-of-bench player.
Jun 28, 2011 • 3:40 amby MrHappyMushroom
True. But hoping you might do better with Singler isn’t necessarily better than aggressively pursuing someone who could meet the team’s big need–size and an interior presence.
Again, I’ve never seen Singler play for more than a few minutes. My instinct, though is to be underwhelmed by a guy of seemingly limited skill and athleticism for a position that easier to fill.
Jun 26, 2011 • 10:07 pmby Robbie
Well first Mr.HappyMushroom.. Monroe is not the only one we have that can score down low Jerebko has something to prove this year and will show all is new post game.. Remember he was working with Kander all year Rehabilitating and getting his lower body stronger.. Don’t sleep on Jonas he may turn out to be a really good power forward…. So getting Singler I thought was a good move cuz he’s a WINNER and that can be good for the locker room.. Oh and don’t sleep on him if we get the right coach and if his jumper and 3-point shooting can improve a little then he can be like Peja when Peja played for the Kings…..
Jun 27, 2011 • 4:54 pmby Dan Feldman
At his best, Stojakovic finished fourth in MVP voting. I’m not sure whether you’re overrating Singler or underrating Peja, but you’re doing at least one.
Jun 27, 2011 • 7:20 pmby Robbie
I maybe overrating Singler a little bit but I never said anything about MVP voting for Peja I’m talking about true shooting percentage is where I think Singler would do his damage.. Like how good of a shooter he can be and if he don’t than he can make a difference in hustle plays but I do not believe this pick deserves less than a B-…
Jun 26, 2011 • 10:27 pmby Andre
I love Jerebko but I don’t know how he turned into the best power forward in the league. He never had post moves or a great 3 pointer, but he is a excellent rebounder and a ok defender. I watched him get lit up in the summer league before the season started last year but people have elevated him to Rodman’s status. He has a lot of potential but he is not there yet and he has along way to go. You guys are putting too much expectation on Jonas and he will need time to get back to his rookie year performance.
Jun 27, 2011 • 9:53 pmby Robbie
Dude Andre you are way off subject read my post again…
Jun 27, 2011 • 12:01 amby jake
it was a good pick just for the team’s sake. what i mean by that is every team needs locker room guys, guys who are winners and will keep everyone in check. singler fits that mold perfectly. toss in the fact that he has the certain toughness in him that made detroit one of the most hard-nosed teams in recent memory, and it was a solid pick for the 2nd round.
i love when people flip a nut about 2nd round picks. these guys will be lucky if they make an nba roster, let alone crack the rotation. i’m sure the GM’s and the guys who are actually out doing the scouting and research on these players know just a little more than we do about who they’re drafting.
Jun 27, 2011 • 12:24 amby tarsier
Yeah but locker room guys are typically proven vets with lots of years of solid play behind them. And winners refer to people who have won on the professional level. No one calls an NBA player a winner for winning some high school tournament. And while they may get the winner label for the first few years after winning the NCAA tournament, before long it’s an NBA championship or nothing. In other words, an unproven, 2nd round draft pick who has only ever won in college will not “keep everyone in check.” He’s the rookie and is last in the pecking order. Unless he rapidly becomes one of the three or four best players on the team, he will be unable to be “a locker room guy.” He can only avoid contributing negatively to the locker room for the first at least 6 years of his career.
Jun 27, 2011 • 12:54 amby Laser
it could take virtually no time at all to be a good locker room presence, and singler has accomplished more than most pistons on the roster, even if it wasn’t at the professional level. what has stuckey accomplished as a professional? basically nothing. same for most of the rest of them. team’s stunk for three years now, and nobody should have a sense of pride or accomplishment about what this team’s done lately. rip’s won a ring here, but the guy’s a pariah. tayshaun’s a goner. big ben has a year left with a limited role. gordon and villanueva are veterans, but they’ve been complete and total failures here.
so i’d say the locker room is going to be wide open to influence. who do you think is going to positively influence the culture here?
Jun 27, 2011 • 4:56 pmby Dan Feldman
As a rookie, Singler probably won’t be a guy who commands respect in the locker room and convinces his teammates to follow his lead. But if the Pistons continue to add players who act the right way (presumably guys like Singler), they can make a bottom-up impact. And that can happen with guys who are any age.
Jun 27, 2011 • 7:58 amby MrHappyMushroom
Jake wrote: ” love when people flip a nut about 2nd round picks. these guys will be lucky if they make an nba roster, let alone crack the rotation.”
This is precisely my point, Jake. If you acknowledge that a guy like Singler will be lucky just to make the roster, how can you be excited about his locker room presence? (Unless you foresee him as a dynamic towel boy?…) If the pick is by definition a long shot, why not go for someone whose long shot might make a huge difference?
Also, it doesn’t add much to point out that Dumars knows more than we do. Of course. But every year some GMs make better calls than others. I’d be wiling to see that he screwed up a few years back when he took Walter Sharpe over DeAndre Jordan, right?
Jun 27, 2011 • 2:07 amby oats
Before I get started, Peja shot 40% from 3 for his career, which is pretty fantastic. In his good years that is closer to 42% or 44%. For his college career, Singler shot 36%, which is enough to be a decent 3 point shooter. Singler shot 34% as a freshman, and 32% as a senior. In his sophomore and junior seasons he shot 38% and 40%. I don’t know whether Singler’s 1st and 4th years are closer, or if his 2nd and 3rd years are closer to what kind of shooter Sinlger is. Keeping in mind those numbers are from the college 3 point line and against college defenses, I’d expect Singler to make around 1/3 of his 3 point shots. If I’m guessing right, he has a long ways to go to catch the good Stojakovic. Right now I’m guessing he’s a guy that will take a lot of 3s, but shouldn’t. Of course, I could be wrong. It’s always a little tricky to predict how shooting percentages will hold up, and a guy with two good years sandwiched between two bad years leaves me scratching my head. No matter what, let’s not compare him to elite 3 point shooters until he has done if for a couple of years.
On to my grade of a B for Singler. Talent wise, I feel like we didn’t get the best player available. Tyler is the risky but with with upside pick who also is a big man. Honeycutt is the small forward ready to come in as a pretty good shooter and a great rebounder at small forward, coupled with the athleticism to become an elite defender (also known as the guy I wanted). While he plays the same position, I think Darius Morris is going to be a decent NBA starting point guard in a few years and would have been the best player available regardless of position played. Morris may have made sense because either he or Bynum could have been a trade chip at that point. Also in favor of Morris is the fact that there is some chance Knight is actually a shooting guard, and a big pass first point guard would be the ideal compliment to him. Chandler Parsons is a bit like Singler in that he is a hard worker and 4 year player for a good program. Parsons also had two bad shooting years and two good ones, but the good ones were junior and senior years which suggests he just got better as a shooter. Work ethic, decent shot, good passer for a small forward, and great rebounding for his position make Parsons look a bit like a poor man’s Tayshaun Prince. While I can’t criticize taking Singler over Parsons particularly much since they are very similar prospects, I mention him because I’d have taken him if the mandate is character first and talent second (which was the argument Dan was making). If filling the front court was a priority, it should have been Benson, who I think is the closest thing to NBA ready out of all the bigs that were left.
That is enough knocking the Singler pick, on to why I like it. Even though I think JJ should be a SF, the fact is right now we are going to need him to be a PF. The bigs available were raw enough or skinny enough that chances are they wouldn’t have changed that. So, unless we add someone there, it looks like our options at small forward are either Austin Daye, Rip Hamilton or Rodney Stuckey (since Summers was almost certainly going to be gone whether we added a small forward or not. If you are looking at this and thinking “Why Stuckey?”, it’s because he is much stronger than Hamilton and I think would be more likely to get the starter job at small forward if Daye can’t do it). Singler has skills, high effort level and high basketball IQ, that happen to fill needs for this team while playing a position that looks like a potential weak spot. Plus, maybe he can be a good 3 point shooter. After all he was good at it for 2 years in college.
The main thing I like about the pick is what Singler will do for practice. He will bring all that energy to practice and force Daye to work. If he goes out and makes Daye look bad in practice, I hope Daye starts taking notes and adds some of Singler’s tricks to his repertoire. Singler is also a strong enough player that he can make Daye work on not getting pushed around (something my boy Parsons couldn’t do if he wanted to). Plus, like Michael Curry (the player whom Carlisle leaned on, not the coach who got fired faster than Kuester), Singler does a lot of the little things that coaches love their guys to do. I think he will do that in practice, so any minutes Daye gets he will have to earn instead of just having the minutes handed to him (which is the big mistake we made with Stuckey, in my opinion at least). I like the pick because Singler could help the team even if he never cracks the rotation, so I gave it a mostly favorable grade. Still, enough talent was passed on that I couldn’t score it higher.
Jun 27, 2011 • 8:42 amby Robbie
Well OATS you know there will be a lockout and Singler will have plenty of time to work on his shot you never wanna put down a player with a very good work ethic he will improve and when he figures out the defense in the NBA he will put up Peja numbers….
Jun 27, 2011 • 3:50 amby Scott
I really believe we shouldve taken either Jeremy Tyler or Jordan Williams at this spot. If Joe D wanted a small forward, I wouldve waited until #52
Jun 27, 2011 • 8:47 amby Robbie
Scott mark my words Jeremy Tyler will be a bust the dude has no work ethic at all you have to have a work ethic to even make a difference in the NBA…. He’ll never live up to the fans expectations.. I see him in the mold as Kwame Brown without the number1 pick tag and Jordan Williams thanks but no thanks….
Jun 27, 2011 • 9:40 amby vic
i gave this pick a C+
I agree with scott. Tyler needs work, but has talent. Jordaon Williams is a little slow, but a beast rebounder. Trey Thompkins was a low post -scorer, one of the most skilled in the draft. Keith Benson just needs 20 pounds. 4 years ago he was 6’5. All he needed was time. Get any of these guys working with Ben Wallace, Greg Monroe, arnie Kander and (hopefully) Bill Laimbeer, and youve got a rotation big with upside.
In the East you need defensive stoppers at the 3. Liggins was available at 52, and thats what he is. Liggins has a great attitude, and came from a winning team where he sacrificed his talent to let one-and-done players shine.
We missed this one guys! Round 1, we did the best we could, that gets an A. But we could have done better in round 2, and now we will depend on big a trade just to get a team that can tread water and stay at 30 wins.
Jun 28, 2011 • 3:53 amby MrHappyMushroom
Vic has pretty much channeled my own thoughts.
I hope we proved to be poor analysts, Vic. ;-)
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1. Ben McLemore
2. Victor Oladipo
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4. Trey Burke
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