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Drew Sharp: Ben Gordon could be the guard on the move

In his column today, Drew Sharp of the Detroit Free Press speculates that Brandon Knight’s arrival could likely mean the departure of Ben Gordon. Here’s the rationale:

But getting out from underneath Ben Gordon’s remaining three years at a throat-clutching $33 million would be the proper decision.

Gordon told me prior to the season’s final game that something had to change next season. He didn’t demand a trade but acknowledged regrets about his time here. Gordon has never gotten the opportunity to truly thrive since his arrival two summers ago because he believed his arrival two summers ago would spawn the end of Hamilton’s time in Detroit.

Now Knight’s arrival means either Gordon or Hamilton has to leave by any means necessary.

Now, as Sharp points out, Hamilton seems like the most likely option to go. But he also notes if a lockout shortens the season, Hamilton’s contract actually has a chance of becoming an asset after this season, since it will be expiring. It’s also not fully guaranteed that final year, meaning teams looking to shed payroll might give up something of value to get it, whereas Gordon would still have two more years on his deal after this season.

Also, I don’t think Sharp is off in his assessment that Gordon is pretty unhappy in Detroit. Check out this tweet from Sean Sweeney of Dime Magazine:

just talking to Ben Gordon about his time in Detroit, cut off the question and called it “terrible” so far…is hopeful that’ll change tho

For chemistry reasons, I assume the Pistons will do what they can to move Hamilton. But it doesn’t seem out of the question that they’ll look to ditch Gordon as well, if the lockout doesn’t completely wipe out the offseason, considering Dumars’ public support of Rodney Stuckey since the season ended. It seems, with Knight’s addition, that Stuckey will see significantly more time at shooting guard. Sharp noted that part of Gordon’s frustration is his belief that Hamilton was going to be moved after Gordon signed here. Now, Stuckey is potentially blocking him at shooting guard.

46 Comments

  • Jun 24, 20112:22 pm
    by tarsier

    Reply

    Gordon for Boozer straight up. What do you all think? Obviously Boozer is the better player, but he also has the worse contract in that it runs an extra year and costs more per year. So the value per dollar seems close to equal. However, the fit would be a drastic improvement for both teams. Detroit gets a big man who can score and rebound. Chicago gets a SG who can is a legitimate second scoring option.
    Do the Bulls accept? Do the Pistons?

    • Jun 24, 20112:28 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Although some other contracts may have to be included to make it work. Maybe Bogans for Maxiell. A couple expiring deals of below average players.

    • Jun 24, 20112:28 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I think it would be a stretch to think Chicago would trade for Gordon. I don’t think he left the organization on the best terms b/c of the constant contract battles he had with them. He’s also not a great fit defensively with Thibodeau’s system. His scoring would definitely help though.

      Supposedly the Bulls are focused on trying to get OJ Mayo at the two.

      • Jun 24, 20112:44 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        That they may be. But what are they gonna offer? Taj Gibson and Omer Asik? I don’t see either team going for that. Problem with Mayo is he will probably have a big price tag because of being the third pick and being acquired at the price of Love but he has played at a low level so I don’t know who will pay the price.

  • Jun 24, 20112:31 pm
    by Jason

    Reply

    Bulls didn’t covet Boozer or shits and giggles, just to trade him off the following year. I lived in CHicago the past 7 years, I can guarantee that Boozer is NOT moved. They need a offensive presence down low, next to Noah. It will not happen.

    More likely would be trying to work out a trade with Utah. They have a ton of guys at the F/C position, and with the Kanter pic, they will be looking to move someone.. With Raja Bell as their starting SG, i’d say they would be a great match for some sort of trade.

    Jefferson or Millsap seem to be the most likely to be moved – either or i’d be happy to see in a Pistons uniform. Hoping Dumars is making calls.. Like this second.

    Aside from that, I’s day a sign and trade with Prince for Kaman isn’t out of question, though I wonder how well Kaman and Monroe fit on the floor together..

    • Jun 24, 20112:34 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Don’t forget though, the Jazz also drafted Alec Burks in the lottery. They’ll be a lot less interested in shooting guards now than they were prior to the draft I would guess. They are looking for a PG since Devin Harris is a FA after next season.

      • Jun 24, 20112:37 pm
        by Jason

        Reply

        Definitely a good point. Any other teams that might be looking for SG’s, that you can think of?

        • Jun 24, 20112:41 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          Charlotte and New Orleans could both use a SG. But they also both appear to be in cost cutting mode.

      • Jun 24, 20118:38 pm
        by detroitpcb

        Reply

        Patrick, don’t forget that Utah will still need a 3 and Prince would fit well in that system. We might be able to get Milsap in a sign and trade. Depends on Prince’s contract demands. I don’t want Jefferson.

    • Jun 24, 20112:39 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      Yeah, I suppose I am not really sure, but my idea was based on the idea that Chicago has buyer’s remorse on Boozer. If they still like him, then obviously another trade partner would make more sense.

      • Jun 24, 20112:42 pm
        by Jason

        Reply

        I just think that aside from losing in playoffs, they had an amazing season, with the best record in the NBA. It’s highly unlikely they will just blow the team up, but i guess I could be wrong.

        • Jun 24, 20112:46 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          You are right. But getting rid of Boozer would hardly be blowing the team up. He missed a lot of the season. And when he did play, he was quite underwhelming. He was probably the Bulls’ 4th best player last year. And even lower than that in the playoffs when he was outplayed by Gibson.

          • Jun 24, 20112:58 pm
            by Jason

            Boozer started 59 games last season… In those 59 games, he averaged 17 Points per game, and 9.6 Rebounds per game, as well as a few assists per game as well.. Not only that, but the guy is a vocal leader – even when injured, he was on the sidelines pumping everyone up..

            By all accounts, Boozer had a pretty good year, and even Thibbodeau said he bought into the defensive system pretty well, even better then most thought he would be able to. Also worth noting, his PPG and Rebounds are exactly what he’s averaged his entire career.
             
            Boozer was the second leading scorer, and pulled down almost the same amount of rebounds per game as Noah did. He had an awesome season!! Check the stats…
             
            http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Chicago_Bulls/4/Stats

          • Jun 24, 20113:16 pm
            by tarsier

            True. I guess, he was just underwhelming in two main senses. He was as bad defensively as ever (not worse, but not better either than in the past) while the rest of the Bulls were a lot better on that end than they had been in the past. And his stats were all down significantly from the past four years (which is a more relevant comparison than career stats).

            Boozer from 2006-2010:
            19.9 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 2.9 apg, 1.1 spg, 0.4 bpg, 2.6 TOpg, 72.0% on 4.8 FTA/game, 54.8% on 15.0 FGA/game

            Boozer in 2010-2011:
            17.5 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 2.5 apg, 0.8 spg, 0.3 bpg, 2.5 TOpg, 70.1% on 4.1 FTA/game, 51.0% on 14.3 FGA/game

            So yes, Boozer was still good. But he was worse in virtually every way than he had been in the recent past. But you are right. Upon further consideration, the Bulls would be foolish to make such a trade.

          • Jun 24, 20113:32 pm
            by Jason

            For sure.. Your right though, he declined a little in some areas, likely due to the effects of the injury.. But I still think we can agree, he is a pretty big part of that Bulls team moving forward.. We’d also agree, im sure – he’s look awesome in a Pistons jersey!! haha

          • Jun 24, 20113:36 pm
            by neutes

            Numbers tend to drop off when you’re playing with other players that dominate the ball like Rose did, and rebound like Noah does. Also I’m sure Boozer played fewer mpg in Chicago than Utah.  Boozer was not the reason they lost I’ll be pretty emphatic about that. If you want to place blame then it was Rose and the fact they played Bogans at all when they had Brewer and Korver on the bench.
             
            The Bulls are close and trading Boozer would be a huge mistake. They just need Rose to play a little more under control and to solve their SG position more economically. Or just scrap Bogans from the whole rotation.

          • Jun 24, 20113:43 pm
            by tarsier

            @neutes
            Rose is damn good, but not so much better than Deron Williams that he would make Boozer’s number fall by more than 10%. Also, typically, if you are scoring less because of another big time scorer, you should be scoring more efficiently. Boozer was indisputably a disappointment last year. Ask any Bulls fan. What is debatable is how big a disappointment and how Chicago ought to react.

          • Jun 24, 20114:05 pm
            by neutes

            Boozer still shot over 50%, which I would have to consider quite efficient. He rebounded well, like always. His numbers dropped off because he played 4 fewer minutes per game in Chicago, and because he dealt with injuries, a new system, and a new environment. Not that I’m making excuses. He was still a very good efficient player. And yes Deron Williams is a better PG than Rose in that sense. Utah is pick and roll heavy and Williams and Boozer played that game.
             
            Rose shot like crap in the playoffs. He took most of the shots. Correlation?

          • Jun 24, 20115:20 pm
            by Jason

            @ Tarsier – your comment ” Boozer was indisputably a disappointment last year”
             
            Again, not following your logic. He had a minimal drop off, still posted over 17ppg, and almost 10 rebounds per game.. That’s not a disappointment, by any margin. And you say ask any Bulls fan, again – I lived in Chicago for the last 7 years… VERY FEW people would agree with your statement.. Most LOVED Boozer’s contributions, and ability to gel with Noah quite well.. They were the BEST team in the regular season, and Boozer had a lot to do with that.. Disappointment is not the word to describe Boozer’s season..

  • Jun 24, 20112:48 pm
    by bball4224

    Reply

    I don’t understand why everyone in the Pistons staff seems to love Rodney. Do they not see that the fans don’t like him and he isn’t very good? They are like in a blind haze. They talk about the last few games how he finished and seem to forget all the drama and the negatives. Well Wilcox was a beast more games at the end than Stuckey and caused less problems than him too, so why not resign Wilcox instead? Stuckey, decides when he wants to play or not, argues w/ coaches, has a game where he refuses to shoot (though I wish he would so that every night), is a point guard that doesn’t pass, or a shooting guard that can’t shoot. Someone please tell me what is so attractive about Stuckey’s game?

    • Jun 24, 20112:53 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      It’s his ridiculous upside and the fact that in spite of only sometimes showing up, on average he was one of the best three players on the Pistons last year. I am all for resigning him, but only if it can be done at a reasonable price. Which may be possible as I think his league-wide value is pretty low right now and the next CBA is likely to shift the advantage, if anything, further in the Pistons’ favor.

      • Jun 24, 20114:18 pm
        by gordbrown

        Reply

        I don’t know if he has ridiculous upside but he led the team in most offensive categories, he was poorly used by Kuester and he was double teamed pretty much all the time (watch where the opposing center was playing when Stuckey had the ball if you don’t believe me). Stuckey’s stats were also hurt by the games coming off his illness and his injury. In fact, the player Stuckey resembled most was Chauncey Billups (Billups clearly better at three point shooting but Stuckey able to get to the free throw line better partially offsetting that).

        • Jun 24, 20114:47 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          How much “ridiculous upside” means is pretty vague, I will concede. But he has put together some very fantastic stretches, most notably his two player of the week performances and the last five games of last year. Even mediocre players can put together one very good game here and there. But usually you need big upside to do that for a one or two week stretch.
          However, I am not going to blame Kuester for Stuckey being poorly used. Stuckey poorly used his own abilities. I think Kuester gave him plenty of opportunities, more than anyone else on the team.

    • Jun 24, 20112:54 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      It’s all relative with Stuckey. Right now, for his cost, he’s productive. Actually, at his cost, I’d much rather have him over Gordon or Hamilton. Now, if they extend him for big money, that all changes. But if they sign him long term for $5-$6 million a year? I’m OK with him as a starter at that price, because it gives them money to go spend at other key positions, if they can move a couple of their bad contracts.

    • Jun 24, 20113:11 pm
      by RandomGuy313

      Reply

      I think Stuckey at the 2 gives you a lot more than what Rip and BG have given. Secondly the pressure will be off him to set the pace he can just pin his ears back and drive to the basket…and miss more than half the time. (couldn’t help myself)

  • Jun 24, 20113:09 pm
    by neutes

    Reply

    I can’t imagine a team wanting Gordon after these last 2 seasons. I’m not sure what he’s still perceived to be able to provide. Look around and I can’t figure out where he’d fit. Maybe Minnesota. Most teams have SG’s better than Gordon. He’s gonna be so hard to move.

    • Jun 24, 20113:13 pm
      by RandomGuy313

      Reply

      @neutes couldn’t agree more. I think we are stuck (no pun intended) with BG and hope that he can show flashes of of 09.

    • Jun 24, 20113:20 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      We can always hope that another team sees how inexplicable Gordon’s production drop has been and decides it is all a matter of fit. He would still have negative value, but not so much. Maybe (pipe dream) we could get rid of him for nothing (by which I mean for an expiring contract or a trade exception) just at the cost of also throwing in Daye.

      • Jun 24, 20114:11 pm
        by gordbrown

        Reply

        Gordon’s drop in performance is not inexplicable at all. He was great up until he sprained his ankle in his first season with Detroit. Last off season he had major surgery on his ankle. Give him an off season of relative health and the chance to work out every day and he may be back to being the player he was before. Also he was used very poorly by Kuester (as was Stuckey) and its not inexplicable at all. It is possible he may not revert to form but its too early to call that definitively.

        • Jun 24, 20114:43 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          I’m sorry but how many players need a healthy off season to get their productivity back? They just need to get healthy. And Gordon was last year, off-season be damned. He was used poorly, but a good player can overcome that. Your explanation is about as compelling as when Langlois would say that we can expect a lot more from Stuckey once he gets consecutive seasons with the same head coach.

  • Jun 24, 20113:15 pm
    by danny

    Reply

    I guess Ben is afraid of some good ol’ competition? Even above Rip and Ben, Charlie is the first guy I would like to see moved. After that, McGrady (F/A??) THEN Ben, then Rip. I’ve always thought Stuckey was a SG, and I think he still has a chance to be a 20 pt scorer in this league, if he cleans up his game.

    • Jun 24, 20113:19 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I don’t think it’s a stretch to think the team would like to rid itself of Villanueva too. But unfortunately, he happens to (at least in name) play in the frontcourt and they just don’t have any depth there, especially if Wilcox doesn’t re-sign. Villanueva may eventually get moved if they can find a taker, but getting rid of a guard or two should be the more pressing priority.

      • Jun 24, 20113:21 pm
        by tarsier

        Reply

        Agreed. If Wilcox resigns, getting rid of Villanueva becomes a priority (still not as high as getting rid of a guard) but if not, the Pistons almost have to temporarily keep him by default.

        • Jun 24, 20113:30 pm
          by neutes

          Reply

          yeah we’re pretty much stuck with CV until we get some front court help. Think about it, I highly doubt Max would opt out at the end of the season, but if he did we’re out Big Ben and Max heading into next season. We’d only have Monroe, Jerebko, and CV left. Macklin, but he’s a 52nd pick so let’s hold the enthusiasm on that one.

      • Jun 24, 20113:36 pm
        by RandomGuy313

        Reply

        Hat tip to Hollinger (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/hollinger/_/id/1731/chris-wilcox), Wilcox’s PER was pretty decent. I would take him as long as he gets only 15 to 20 minutes a game and let’s get the high screen and roll going.

        • Jun 24, 20113:45 pm
          by tarsier

          Reply

          His minutes should be flexible. I would hope he can earn more than 15-20. But take him as long as he doesn’t cost too much. Maybe $3M/yr.

        • Jun 24, 20113:46 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          Yeah, I wouldn’t mind seeing Wilcox back for a very modest price, preferably on a one-year deal.

          • Jun 24, 20113:55 pm
            by tarsier

            I’d be happy to get him on a one year deal. But if it’s a modest enough price (maybe $2M/yr), I would rather lock him up for a long time. That’s how you can end up with real value, by getting modest long-term contracts. Like Thabo Sefolosha.

          • Jun 24, 20113:56 pm
            by Alan

            Is this because of an appreciation for Wilcox or a need for frontcourt?

  • Jun 24, 20114:08 pm
    by Scott

    Reply

    Gordon for Boozer? NO WAY!!! Not until a Duke player not named “Danny Ferry” wins a nba championship.

    • Jun 24, 20114:14 pm
      by Mike

      Reply

      Because this team is one player away from a championship, amirite?

      • Jun 24, 20114:51 pm
        by Scott

        Reply

        What I’m saying (sorry if you happen to be a Duke fan) is that, to me, Duke players struggle too much on the NBA level for me to be comfortable with them on my team. And yes, that includes the one we drafted yesterday!! :/

  • Jun 24, 20114:18 pm
    by qm22

    Reply

    There does not seem to be much susbstance to Sharp’s column. From the selected quote of Sharp’s article, he says Gordon said something had to change. Is there any Piston player, or even anyone in the world, who thought otherwise? That really adds nothing, but it is insinuated as close to a trade demand?

    • Jun 24, 20114:29 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I don’t think it’s insinuated as a trade demand. I think Sharp is insinuating that Gordon wants others to go, but based on Gordon’s unhappiness and his contract, the Pistons might like him to be the one to go.

  • Jun 24, 20114:48 pm
    by Scott

    Reply

    Not sure if I posted this trade scenario before, but I came up with this a while ago. What you think?
     
    DETROIT RECIEVES: Nikola Pekovic & Martell Webster
    MINNESOTA RECIEVES: Ben Gordon & Terrico White
     
     

    • Jun 24, 20115:16 pm
      by tarsier

      Reply

      It would be worth it because Detroit would have cap space in 2013 when those two and Rip come off the books. But I doubt Dumars would pull the trigger because it is a definite talent downgrade in the short term.

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