Comments on: Should Tom Gores retain Joe Dumars as the Pistons’ general manager? http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/04/should-tom-gores-retain-joe-dumars-as-the-pistons-general-manager/ Your Go-To Source For Pistons Coverage Thu, 23 May 2013 18:16:32 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Scott http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/04/should-tom-gores-retain-joe-dumars-as-the-pistons-general-manager/comment-page-1/#comment-28507 Scott Thu, 28 Apr 2011 00:08:36 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5869#comment-28507 Why should Joe D Get another shot? We won a championship in spite of him. If he knew how to draft, we would have won three or four with D Wade, Carmelo, or even Bosh. It's a joke! Then, when the players he passed on drafting were coming up as free agents, rather than save some money and try to sign a big-name free agent this season, he used all of our cap room on Villanueva and Gordon last season. I hate to say it because he was my favorite Piston and I went to his last 2 home games in the playoffs in '99. As far as coaching is concerned, Kuester and Eddie jordan (76ers) had the same records in 2009-2010. Jordan got fired and right now I'm watching the Doug Collins (name sound familiar Pistons fans?) coached 76ers in the playoffs against the Miami Heat. Meanwhile, we're only three games better than last year. Why should Joe D Get another shot? We won a championship in spite of him. If he knew how to draft, we would have won three or four with D Wade, Carmelo, or even Bosh. It’s a joke! Then, when the players he passed on drafting were coming up as free agents, rather than save some money and try to sign a big-name free agent this season, he used all of our cap room on Villanueva and Gordon last season. I hate to say it because he was my favorite Piston and I went to his last 2 home games in the playoffs in ’99.
As far as coaching is concerned, Kuester and Eddie jordan (76ers) had the same records in 2009-2010. Jordan got fired and right now I’m watching the Doug Collins (name sound familiar Pistons fans?) coached 76ers in the playoffs against the Miami Heat. Meanwhile, we’re only three games better than last year.

]]> By: Fennis http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/04/should-tom-gores-retain-joe-dumars-as-the-pistons-general-manager/comment-page-1/#comment-28332 Fennis Tue, 26 Apr 2011 01:17:38 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5869#comment-28332 @Laser     Did you just support Dumars staying on as GM? Does that mean we should dismiss the 1,000 or so messages you've posted over the past year. So confused, and pleasantly surprised to see that you have a rational bone in your body. @Laser
 
 
Did you just support Dumars staying on as GM? Does that mean we should dismiss the 1,000 or so messages you’ve posted over the past year. So confused, and pleasantly surprised to see that you have a rational bone in your body.

]]> By: Patrick Hayes http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/04/should-tom-gores-retain-joe-dumars-as-the-pistons-general-manager/comment-page-1/#comment-28321 Patrick Hayes Mon, 25 Apr 2011 19:41:54 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5869#comment-28321 <p>Kuester's legacy, to me, will be Greg Monroe. Let's face it, this season was a disaster waiting to happen no matter who the coach was. Kuester did some boneheaded things managing some players on the roster and failed as a communicator, but he got far more out of Greg Monroe than anyone expected. Developing Monroe was the single most important thing he did and it will pay off immensely for the team down the road.</p> Kuester’s legacy, to me, will be Greg Monroe. Let’s face it, this season was a disaster waiting to happen no matter who the coach was. Kuester did some boneheaded things managing some players on the roster and failed as a communicator, but he got far more out of Greg Monroe than anyone expected. Developing Monroe was the single most important thing he did and it will pay off immensely for the team down the road.

]]> By: brgulker http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/04/should-tom-gores-retain-joe-dumars-as-the-pistons-general-manager/comment-page-1/#comment-28319 brgulker Mon, 25 Apr 2011 19:23:45 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5869#comment-28319 I'd wager my life savings on the fact that Kuester's experience was considered when he was interviewing for the job. I understand assisting and head coaching are different. And I agree that he failed to manage people (I don't completely agree that he's a failure in terms of playcalling, but that's another story).   I'm not sure we'll come to agreement on this, so I won't make a big deal of it (it really isn't anyway! :) ). But I think out of fairness to Kuester and how he'll be remembered as an NBA coach -- as I think it's unlikely he'll ever be a head coach again -- we Piston fans owe it to him to put it on the record somewhere, even if it's just a footnote, that even though he failed as a head coach, his coaching legacy shouldn't be remembered as a complete failure.   I think that's underscored by the fact that many, many, many fans use a similar line of reasoning when arguing to retain Dumars. I’d wager my life savings on the fact that Kuester’s experience was considered when he was interviewing for the job. I understand assisting and head coaching are different. And I agree that he failed to manage people (I don’t completely agree that he’s a failure in terms of playcalling, but that’s another story).
 
I’m not sure we’ll come to agreement on this, so I won’t make a big deal of it (it really isn’t anyway! :) ). But I think out of fairness to Kuester and how he’ll be remembered as an NBA coach — as I think it’s unlikely he’ll ever be a head coach again — we Piston fans owe it to him to put it on the record somewhere, even if it’s just a footnote, that even though he failed as a head coach, his coaching legacy shouldn’t be remembered as a complete failure.
 
I think that’s underscored by the fact that many, many, many fans use a similar line of reasoning when arguing to retain Dumars.

]]> By: Tim http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/04/should-tom-gores-retain-joe-dumars-as-the-pistons-general-manager/comment-page-1/#comment-28318 Tim Mon, 25 Apr 2011 19:21:43 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5869#comment-28318 But he didn't really have a great regular season. He was very good, but not as good as Rose most of the year. And he wasn't on a contender. To get MVP buzz when not on a contender, you basically have to be the best player in the league. But he didn’t really have a great regular season. He was very good, but not as good as Rose most of the year. And he wasn’t on a contender. To get MVP buzz when not on a contender, you basically have to be the best player in the league.

]]> By: Patrick Hayes http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/04/should-tom-gores-retain-joe-dumars-as-the-pistons-general-manager/comment-page-1/#comment-28312 Patrick Hayes Mon, 25 Apr 2011 17:02:42 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5869#comment-28312 <p>But see, I don't think the experience as an assistant is relevant. Kuester had no track record as a head coach. Now he has two years of failures. He certainly didn't inherit a roster that was in good shape, but Kuester clearly did things both on the court and managing people in the locker room that were major failures.</p> <p>And it's true, Dumars had others in the organization who helped build that team. But didn't he hire John Hammond, for example? Beyond just assembling the team, he gets credit for assembling the people on his staff.</p> <p>I'm not saying Dumars should definitely keep his job. I think he should for at least another season. I'm just saying he has way, way more of a case than Kuester because he has proven to be an effective manager in the role he is currently in.</p> But see, I don’t think the experience as an assistant is relevant. Kuester had no track record as a head coach. Now he has two years of failures. He certainly didn’t inherit a roster that was in good shape, but Kuester clearly did things both on the court and managing people in the locker room that were major failures.

And it’s true, Dumars had others in the organization who helped build that team. But didn’t he hire John Hammond, for example? Beyond just assembling the team, he gets credit for assembling the people on his staff.

I’m not saying Dumars should definitely keep his job. I think he should for at least another season. I’m just saying he has way, way more of a case than Kuester because he has proven to be an effective manager in the role he is currently in.

]]> By: brgulker http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/04/should-tom-gores-retain-joe-dumars-as-the-pistons-general-manager/comment-page-1/#comment-28311 brgulker Mon, 25 Apr 2011 16:07:55 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5869#comment-28311 That's a fair point, but it does need some qualifications in order to be fair to Kuester, IMHO.   First, Dumars did not build a championship team by himself. Several people who helped do that have left, and the timeline as it relates to those departures and Dumars' questionable moves raises suspicions about Dumars' role in building the title contender.   Second, Kuester does have a track record. He orchestrated one of the most successful offenses in the league in Cleveland. Obviously, LBJ had something to do with it as well, but if we're going to talk about past successes, we should be fair to Q and at least mention his. That’s a fair point, but it does need some qualifications in order to be fair to Kuester, IMHO.
 
First, Dumars did not build a championship team by himself. Several people who helped do that have left, and the timeline as it relates to those departures and Dumars’ questionable moves raises suspicions about Dumars’ role in building the title contender.
 
Second, Kuester does have a track record. He orchestrated one of the most successful offenses in the league in Cleveland. Obviously, LBJ had something to do with it as well, but if we’re going to talk about past successes, we should be fair to Q and at least mention his.

]]> By: neutes http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/04/should-tom-gores-retain-joe-dumars-as-the-pistons-general-manager/comment-page-1/#comment-28310 neutes Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:50:39 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5869#comment-28310 Keep him. If he can't get rid of Gordon/CV by the end of next season fire him. If he's not even thinking about trying to find a taker for either of those two then fire him now and find someone that knows what they are doing. I just want some evidence he's thinking towards the future. The presence is the past. Rip will be an asset sooner than later. Gordon and CV won't be assets for far too long. I have a 2 year time table in my mind of moves that could get made to turn this thing around. However, it involves putting Gordon ahead of Rip on the must get rid of list. Keep him. If he can’t get rid of Gordon/CV by the end of next season fire him. If he’s not even thinking about trying to find a taker for either of those two then fire him now and find someone that knows what they are doing. I just want some evidence he’s thinking towards the future. The presence is the past. Rip will be an asset sooner than later. Gordon and CV won’t be assets for far too long. I have a 2 year time table in my mind of moves that could get made to turn this thing around. However, it involves putting Gordon ahead of Rip on the must get rid of list.

]]> By: Patrick Hayes http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/04/should-tom-gores-retain-joe-dumars-as-the-pistons-general-manager/comment-page-1/#comment-28308 Patrick Hayes Mon, 25 Apr 2011 13:25:03 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5869#comment-28308 <p>The difference is one has a track record at his job and one doesn't. Like it or not, Dumars is one of only a few GMs in the league who built a championship team. Doesn't mean he should never be fired or have his job performance questioned. He's clearly been pretty bad at it the past few seasons. But you can't just compare his situation to Kuester's. Kuester is a first-time head coach who had arguably the worst season a coach has ever had, other than when PJ Carlesimo got choked out by Sprewell. Dumars is a GM who has had far more success than failure in his career, and his job has been complicated by the ownership situation. There's far more evaluation that should go into considering Dumars' future than Kuester's. Period.</p> The difference is one has a track record at his job and one doesn’t. Like it or not, Dumars is one of only a few GMs in the league who built a championship team. Doesn’t mean he should never be fired or have his job performance questioned. He’s clearly been pretty bad at it the past few seasons. But you can’t just compare his situation to Kuester’s. Kuester is a first-time head coach who had arguably the worst season a coach has ever had, other than when PJ Carlesimo got choked out by Sprewell. Dumars is a GM who has had far more success than failure in his career, and his job has been complicated by the ownership situation. There’s far more evaluation that should go into considering Dumars’ future than Kuester’s. Period.

]]> By: Patrick Hayes http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/04/should-tom-gores-retain-joe-dumars-as-the-pistons-general-manager/comment-page-1/#comment-28307 Patrick Hayes Mon, 25 Apr 2011 13:21:16 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5869#comment-28307 <p>He has easily been my favorite player to watch in the playoffs. It's so beautiful to watch a point guard who loves to share the ball. Paul is so much better than Derrick Rose and has way less talent around him. It's crazy that there is no MVP buzz around him. Minus Paul, that Hornets team would threaten for worst record in the league.</p> He has easily been my favorite player to watch in the playoffs. It’s so beautiful to watch a point guard who loves to share the ball. Paul is so much better than Derrick Rose and has way less talent around him. It’s crazy that there is no MVP buzz around him. Minus Paul, that Hornets team would threaten for worst record in the league.

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