http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/ Your Go-To Source For Pistons Coverage Sat, 18 May 2013 09:53:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/comment-page-1/#comment-36478 Pistons Roundtable | Pro Hoops Talk Wed, 05 Oct 2011 18:18:09 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/#comment-36478 [...] 1. Joe Dumars’ culpability for the state of the Pistons [...] [...] 1. Joe Dumars’ culpability for the state of the Pistons [...]

]]> http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/comment-page-1/#comment-28712 Pistons Roundtable « NBA Tonight Podcast Sat, 30 Apr 2011 20:05:04 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/#comment-28712 [...] 1. Joe Dumars’ culpability for the state of the Pistons [...] [...] 1. Joe Dumars’ culpability for the state of the Pistons [...]

]]> http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/comment-page-1/#comment-25850 Pistons Roundtable | DetroitBasketball.net Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:53:36 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/#comment-25850 [...] 1. Joe Dumars’ culpability for the state of the Pistons [...] [...] 1. Joe Dumars’ culpability for the state of the Pistons [...]

]]> http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/comment-page-1/#comment-24707 Mercury Wed, 16 Mar 2011 02:16:33 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/#comment-24707 I'll side with Feldman on this issue... seasoned followers understand Newtons law of maintaining a competitive team... if you're consistently drafting low while protecting a contending teams salaries (with only the MLE to spend) while following a "no tax" mandate it's simply a matter of staying above water as long as possible. We can point out poor signing and drafting failures... however we should understand the EVERY GM not named Buford has made equal or worse personnel moves. Most common sense BB minds knew that Gordon and CV would be mediocre at best... Joe picked the worst FA class to have $'s to spend... so how would folks react to Joe sitting on his pot o' gold for the next year (be honest). If I blame Joe for anything it's not using the Sheed & A.I. expiring in trade b4 he became stuck in a FA quagmire. Blame him for following the exact same path as every other teams natural progression? (again with exception of Spurs)... I'll still take Joe over most GMs... to this day nobody is coming up with a proven available alternative.... whatcha got?   I’ll side with Feldman on this issue… seasoned followers understand Newtons law of maintaining a competitive team… if you’re consistently drafting low while protecting a contending teams salaries (with only the MLE to spend) while following a “no tax” mandate it’s simply a matter of staying above water as long as possible.
We can point out poor signing and drafting failures… however we should understand the EVERY GM not named Buford has made equal or worse personnel moves.
Most common sense BB minds knew that Gordon and CV would be mediocre at best… Joe picked the worst FA class to have $’s to spend… so how would folks react to Joe sitting on his pot o’ gold for the next year (be honest).
If I blame Joe for anything it’s not using the Sheed & A.I. expiring in trade b4 he became stuck in a FA quagmire.
Blame him for following the exact same path as every other teams natural progression? (again with exception of Spurs)…
I’ll still take Joe over most GMs… to this day nobody is coming up with a proven available alternative…. whatcha got?
 

]]> http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/comment-page-1/#comment-24704 Brendan Wed, 16 Mar 2011 02:03:16 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/#comment-24704   Great topic, great views. Joe Dumars no doubt deserves the blame for the make-up of this roster. I agree with the consensus that the trading of Chauncey and the extension of Hamilton and wasting valuable free agents dollars on Gordon and Villaneuva are mistakes he'll spend years digging out of. (Not even going back to the whole Darko debacle.) It's also ironic that Joe is handcuffed by the ownership situation. I can see where the poor product on the court hurts ticket sales and the bad press with the behavior of key players with expensive long-term contracts makes the franchise less valuable. And it does appears that Karen Davidson is having trouble selling the team because of it. There is the potential a new owner's first order of business will be to eat $25M in just one player's salary.    
Great topic, great views. Joe Dumars no doubt deserves the blame for the make-up of this roster. I agree with the consensus that the trading of Chauncey and the extension of Hamilton and wasting valuable free agents dollars on Gordon and Villaneuva are mistakes he’ll spend years digging out of. (Not even going back to the whole Darko debacle.)
It’s also ironic that Joe is handcuffed by the ownership situation. I can see where the poor product on the court hurts ticket sales and the bad press with the behavior of key players with expensive long-term contracts makes the franchise less valuable. And it does appears that Karen Davidson is having trouble selling the team because of it. There is the potential a new owner’s first order of business will be to eat $25M in just one player’s salary.
 

]]> http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/comment-page-1/#comment-24687 BrianW Wed, 16 Mar 2011 01:14:01 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/#comment-24687 Lets remember that JD committed 9 million to Jason Maxiell and Kwame Brown shortly before trading Billups for capspace.  <em>That</em>, to me, is his most inexplicable decision.  While the big-name signings were detrimental, the cummulative effect of Dumar's smaller signings was quite profound.  Unless I'm mistaken, the 12.1 million given to Maxiell, Brown, and Wilcox in 09-10 was equal to Billups' salary that year. Lets remember that JD committed 9 million to Jason Maxiell and Kwame Brown shortly before trading Billups for capspace.  That, to me, is his most inexplicable decision.  While the big-name signings were detrimental, the cummulative effect of Dumar’s smaller signings was quite profound.  Unless I’m mistaken, the 12.1 million given to Maxiell, Brown, and Wilcox in 09-10 was equal to Billups’ salary that year.

]]> http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/comment-page-1/#comment-24679 DannyB Wed, 16 Mar 2011 00:19:28 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/#comment-24679 how would a Lee + Monroe frontcourt even exist? Had Detroit acquired Lee - they likely wouldn't have needed to take Monroe OR... wait for it... there wouldn't be many rebound opportunities because the opponents would have a free lane to the rim, IMHO (my humble opinion) how would a Lee + Monroe frontcourt even exist?
Had Detroit acquired Lee – they likely wouldn’t have needed to take Monroe OR… wait for it…
there wouldn’t be many rebound opportunities because the opponents would have a free lane to the rim, IMHO (my humble opinion)

]]> http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/comment-page-1/#comment-24678 DannyB Wed, 16 Mar 2011 00:16:09 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/#comment-24678 RE: @Laser Rarely does a team trade size away? Rasheed Wallace for Rod Strickland Chris Webber for Mitch Richmond The Wizards wouldn't have the problems they have today had they kept both around through their primes. Other than these 2 occurrences, you're right. RE: @Laser
Rarely does a team trade size away?
Rasheed Wallace for Rod Strickland
Chris Webber for Mitch Richmond
The Wizards wouldn’t have the problems they have today had they kept both around through their primes.
Other than these 2 occurrences, you’re right.

]]> http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/comment-page-1/#comment-24677 DannyB Wed, 16 Mar 2011 00:12:55 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/#comment-24677 IMO - Billups has not been stellar in his time in NY He has averaged more points in 5 games than he has at any other stop in his career for a full season AND he's shooting 37% from the field.  His points are coming from the line which is more of a benefit of D'Antoni's offense than it is Billups ability to create off the dribble.  10 of his 20 points a night in NY are from the line.  Even though his TS% are in line with his career number, I'd say for Billups to continue at this pace he's not going to improve his field goal % JoD getting rid of Billups was bad for the team because it lead to the acquisitions of CV and BG.  Who knows if keeping Billups would've allowed the team to acquire Greg Monroe in the draft either? I personally blame JoD for re-signing Hamilton to his extension (although I have never respected Hamilton's game), but I don't blame JoD for signing CV because he was a young "big" who had just come off a season where his numbers were the highest they had previously been.  I'm not a fan of BG either, never have been - it's a shame he hasn't at least scored in spurts like he showed in CHI.  At least then he'd have some trade value...   IMO – Billups has not been stellar in his time in NY
He has averaged more points in 5 games than he has at any other stop in his career for a full season AND he’s shooting 37% from the field.  His points are coming from the line which is more of a benefit of D’Antoni’s offense than it is Billups ability to create off the dribble.  10 of his 20 points a night in NY are from the line.  Even though his TS% are in line with his career number, I’d say for Billups to continue at this pace he’s not going to improve his field goal %
JoD getting rid of Billups was bad for the team because it lead to the acquisitions of CV and BG.  Who knows if keeping Billups would’ve allowed the team to acquire Greg Monroe in the draft either?
I personally blame JoD for re-signing Hamilton to his extension (although I have never respected Hamilton’s game), but I don’t blame JoD for signing CV because he was a young “big” who had just come off a season where his numbers were the highest they had previously been.  I’m not a fan of BG either, never have been – it’s a shame he hasn’t at least scored in spurts like he showed in CHI.  At least then he’d have some trade value…
 

]]> http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/comment-page-1/#comment-24676 Ryan P Wed, 16 Mar 2011 00:06:04 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/pistons-roundtable-joe-dumars-culpability-for-the-state-of-the-pistons/#comment-24676 Joe D deserves most of the blame, for sure. However, I do think that we're doing too much blaming. Obviously the team is not where anyone - fans, players, management - would like to see it; we've gotten used to winning over the past decade. But sports (and sometimes it seems like especially basketball) are cyclical in nature. Almost every top franchise goes through losing periods. Even the Lakers, with Kobe, were floundering for a few years post-Shaq and pre-Pau. It's the nature of the business. What most people seem to forget is how rare it is for a team to win a championship; count the number of teams that have won since Joe became the GM of the team, and then consider that Joe put together a team that won it all once and was close to repeating. And he did so without a "superstar" player. He built a true team; how many GMs have been able to do that? It's true that many of his moves have not worked out well over the past two years. He continued banking on guys that he thought would take a "next step" in their careers (just as Chauncey and Rip did upon their arrival) but Charlie V and Ben Gordon haven't panned out. But I also find it odd that people consider his good moves to be "lucky." If drafting Greg Monroe or Jonas Jerebko was all "luck," then it's simply unlucky that Ben Gordon seems to be a poor fit or that Rip hasn't been able to handle losing well, letting it affect his game. It doesn't make sense to take away credit for good moves but vilify him for his bad moves. Did Joe originally get lucky with how good Ben Wallace turned out, or did he see something in Ben that spoke to him? It's obviously a little of both. Considering that Joe's hands are probably pretty tied right now, I think it's important to remember that this is a man who has gotten the Pistons a championship; that he is a GM that has historically fixed his own mistakes; and that the job of GM is not as easy as we sometimes may consider it. I think he deserves our patience.     Joe D deserves most of the blame, for sure. However, I do think that we’re doing too much blaming. Obviously the team is not where anyone – fans, players, management – would like to see it; we’ve gotten used to winning over the past decade. But sports (and sometimes it seems like especially basketball) are cyclical in nature. Almost every top franchise goes through losing periods. Even the Lakers, with Kobe, were floundering for a few years post-Shaq and pre-Pau. It’s the nature of the business.
What most people seem to forget is how rare it is for a team to win a championship; count the number of teams that have won since Joe became the GM of the team, and then consider that Joe put together a team that won it all once and was close to repeating. And he did so without a “superstar” player. He built a true team; how many GMs have been able to do that?
It’s true that many of his moves have not worked out well over the past two years. He continued banking on guys that he thought would take a “next step” in their careers (just as Chauncey and Rip did upon their arrival) but Charlie V and Ben Gordon haven’t panned out. But I also find it odd that people consider his good moves to be “lucky.” If drafting Greg Monroe or Jonas Jerebko was all “luck,” then it’s simply unlucky that Ben Gordon seems to be a poor fit or that Rip hasn’t been able to handle losing well, letting it affect his game. It doesn’t make sense to take away credit for good moves but vilify him for his bad moves. Did Joe originally get lucky with how good Ben Wallace turned out, or did he see something in Ben that spoke to him?
It’s obviously a little of both. Considering that Joe’s hands are probably pretty tied right now, I think it’s important to remember that this is a man who has gotten the Pistons a championship; that he is a GM that has historically fixed his own mistakes; and that the job of GM is not as easy as we sometimes may consider it. I think he deserves our patience.
 
 

]]>