Comments on: Hypothetical: Which Pistons contract would be most advantageous to shed?

By: Mark Paxton

Mark Paxton — Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:01:25 +0000

You have to get rid of Rip! He really doesn’t want to be in Detroit anymore and part of his money is garunteed anyway. Two years left also.

By: T-MAX54

T-MAX54 — Tue, 22 Mar 2011 20:19:00 +0000

Maxiell is a terrible choice. First off, he’s no where near as old as Villanueva or Rip, and his contract isn’t that large. A big problem for the Pistons that I see in the future, if we ever want to make it to the playoffs, is size. Most of the championship caliber teams in the NBA have at least one dominant big man. We lack that, and Maxiell will either be the solution, or at least, the VERY least a substitution. Rip or Charlie could be traded for a good big man, or to clear cap for a free agent or big draft pick. Maxiell kicks ass.

By: neutes

neutes — Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:13:42 +0000

I’m with ya here Laser. Dealing Hamilton and next year’s 1st sounds like a horrible move. Just horrible. What’s the outcome? Let’s say we hit on this year’s pick. We’ll have Monroe and this year’s pick (Kanter, Sullinger, Irving, Jones, Williams, who knows) say whoever we pick is a really good player. Now we’re looking at 2 solid starting pieces.

Then what? If we deal Hamilton we’re out his expiring contract to trade, so that’s one less asset. And we traded our pick from next year so even if we suck we aren’t going to be able to take a chance on finding that 3rd starting piece in the draft. I’m sure whatever cap space we gain from trading Rip will be wasted on some mid-grade player. There is no way Gilbert is going to throw $15+ mil down the drain to buyout Rip for a lottery protected pick.

Seems like bad moves all around in that scenario. If it’s easier to trade Gordon do that. If you can get an expiring for Gordon without giving up a pick definitely. Then we can have a contract expire at the end of next season, plus Rip’s expiring contract to deal, plus our pick still. And we’ll be back in business. Sounds simple right?

By: Laser

Laser — Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:42:35 +0000

god, i really hope they don’t do this hamilton+pick trade. i didn’t like it this february, and i like it less now. does anyone actually think the pistons are going to accomplish anything next season?? if so, what did you think they were going to do this season? i’m guessing only some blind optimist could foresee anything but futility and misery in the near future for this team. and there are a lot of you out there. but after just one more full season (where, trust me, the team’s going to be bad no matter what), you can trade rip’s expiring contract for something worthwhile. the more time passes, the less urgency there is to just have this guy off the books.

By: Laser

Laser — Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:34:28 +0000

for once maybe i was giving joe too much credit. i think the answer is somewhere in-between. it’s like this:

my guess is that both gordon and villanueva are “movable.” i just don’t think we could get any value for them. so you could dump them, and maybe it’s the best move for the team (okay, it’s certainly the best move for the team), but you’re not going to get anything in return.

i happen to think joe is too stupid and stubborn to trade these guys for nothing. they were his prize free agents, two of the top FAs (in a bad class), and all he has to show for chauncey, sheed and dyess. if he dumped them now, it’s a flat out admission that they were busts. he’s just not ready to pull the plug. a good GM would admit his mistake and move on for the good of the team, but this is joe dumars we’re talking about.

for some reason, joe thinks there’s more dignity (or something) in trading rip, because rip was a part of the “old” core, even though extending rip was joe’s first move in this latest rebuilding process, and he had rip locked up for four more years (just one fewer than gordon and villanueva). but psychologically, joe feels like he can save more face if he trades rip than if he pulls the plug on one or both of his hand-picked free agents. the rip-kuester conflict helps this case too, because joe can convince himself that it was the real problem and not just a symptom.

maybe i’m just giving joe too much credit here for once, but i’d really like to think that if he could have gotten something of real value for gordon, he would have done it. but look at the team. if you were another GM, would you really think gordon looked much better than rip? they’re splitting minutes and both putting up pretty shitty numbers. gordon might be younger, but i don’t think he’s impressed a soul since he got here, and they’re both in the same pay range. nobody with a brain in his head is going to target either one as a serious building block.

could joe really be stupid and stubborn enough to be so singularly committed to moving rip instead of gordon that he’d give up a future probable lottery pick (that this team needs desperately. at this point more desperately than it needs to be rip of rip. four years ago i would have sweetened the trade with a pick, but we’re going to be awful next season whether rip’s here or not) if he could have dumped gordon and gotten maybe a first rounder in the teens?? maybe so. if that’s the case, he needs to be fired because he’s not doing his job. but then, i’m pretty sure he needs to be fired anyway.

By: Laser

Laser — Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:14:07 +0000

see, i just don’t think rip’s contract on its own is “outrageously” bad. he could probably still be a highly productive player, but on this roster he’s redundant AND overpaid, which makes the contract look worse. cut ben gordon and rip is instantly both useful and valuable here. $12.65 million valuable? no. but on his own he isn’t prohibitively overpaid. even if he’s in steep decline (which i doubt he is), he’s instantly tradable after one more season, because he’ll be attached to an expiring contract.

i’m not saying his contract is anything but bad. it’s bad. but taken on its own, with just two years left, that’s all it is. the only reason it’s truly HORRENDOUS right now is that we’ve got so much damn depth at the SG position. cut ben gordon, give rip his customary minutes and shots, and rip could lead the team in scoring for the next two seasons while playing average defense (and compared to the rest of the team “average” defense is practically LOCK-DOWN).

it’s impossible to ignore the situation rip’s been in the last three seasons. no point guard, splitting minutes in an overcrowded backcourt. and this guy’s game, the reason he’s got a world championship (where he led the team in scoring) and three all-star appearances, the reason he’s made a decade-long career in this league and tens of millions of dollars, is his ability to catch-and-shoot from midrange. so you put him on the court, and the ball is constantly in the hands of shoot-first combo guards. you can’t expect him to thrive, can you?? the contract itself is bad. but it’s not as bad on its own as it is on this team’s payroll right now.

there are quite a few contracts that are worse than rip’s is on its own. if you’d asked me who i wanted to shed two years ago when gordon was just signed to a five year deal and rip had four, i would have said dump rip. but the bottom line is that in one year the contract is expiring, so it’s got inherent value. the pistons are going to STINK next year no matter what, so we hold onto rip for another full year, then trade him for something of value, and the team can be good as soon as 2012-2013.

By: gmehl1977

gmehl1977 — Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:50:12 +0000

Jackpot neutes. You are so right about the core which are not only scrubs but one dimensional players. Remember when Joe use to get players that weren’t great at one particular thing but well rounded in most. He used to bookend those kind of guys with hustle players and players with chips on there shoulders. Joe’s championships credits are ticking away fast and he better wake up soon and realize that Gordon and CV are not piston type players. Like most have mentioned before CV and his contract for what he does is not that bad so i can live with him but Gordon just doesn’t represent this organization the way most piston fans expect. I don’t blame him for this as Joe knew what he was getting when he signed him so its on Joe to fix it!

By: neutes

neutes — Tue, 22 Mar 2011 04:18:21 +0000

I fear the reason Gordon hasn’t been shopped and/or dealt yet is simply because Dumars has no intentions of doing so. One would have to think that Gordon, given his age and reputation from Chicago, would be easier to move than Rip. Would think so anyway. Maybe neither of them are tradeable. It’s not like teams are going to clamor for Monte Ellis who’s making a similar contract to Gordon’s and putting up much better scoring numbers.

The one thing is that there had been plenty of Rip and Tay rumors floated about this year, but not one about Gordon or CV. I honestly think Dumars still considers both part of the core. Who knows. He’s going to get himself fired if he doesn’t figure this out quick. And by figure it out I mean come to the realization that his precious core happens to be a bunch of scrubs.

By: gmehl1977

gmehl1977 — Tue, 22 Mar 2011 03:10:45 +0000

I am inclined to say Gordon as well. I also think the pistons will try to trade Hamilton & its first rounder to Cleveland for its trade exception in the off season. Hopefully we can snag Erden and a second rounder.
So my final thoughts on this would be to move them both if we can. SG’s are a dime a dozen and until we can get a really good one we can just re-sign Stuckey to a fair contact and play him at SG. Obviously you would only resign Stuckey IF either Gordon, Rip or both are gone. Surely this madness of over stocking talent in one position has to end.

By: Tim

Tim — Tue, 22 Mar 2011 01:18:19 +0000

I have to disagree about the no truly outrageous contracts. Hamilton’s was bad at the tie of his signing but not truly outrageous. Now, however, is another story. For 2+ years now, he has played as a below average player and he’s making $12.5M/yr. That is Iggy/JSmoove/Gerald Wallace money. That is what you pay a guy who is very good but not excellent on both sides of the floor, the guy who is the perfect third banana for a true contender. Other players worth that kind of money: Lee, Boozer, Ginobili, Rondo. These are all players who are at least fringe all-stars if they are on good teams.
There are only a few worse contracts in the NBA. Gay and Johnson are bad but not as bad (especially Gay’s) because they are far superior players. Arenas has the worst contract in the league. Lewis’s is worse than Hamilton’s. Turkoglu is right up there. Oddly, all of these involve Orlando somehow. I guess that’s why they are 4th is the east despite having the player who I believe should be MVP and who should definitely be in everyone’s top 4 with Dirk, Rose and either James or Kobe.