Comments on: Contextualizing Ben Gordon’s slump http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/contextualizing-ben-gordons-slump/ Your Go-To Source For Pistons Coverage Fri, 24 May 2013 08:04:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Dan Feldman http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/contextualizing-ben-gordons-slump/comment-page-1/#comment-27132 Dan Feldman Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:03:17 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5570#comment-27132 <p>Jeremy, Ben Gordon can do two things well -- score and exert effort on defense (even if the results on that end aren't perfect). If the Pistons expected more from him, that's their fault.</p> Jeremy, Ben Gordon can do two things well — score and exert effort on defense (even if the results on that end aren’t perfect). If the Pistons expected more from him, that’s their fault.

]]> By: bg8 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/contextualizing-ben-gordons-slump/comment-page-1/#comment-27113 bg8 Wed, 30 Mar 2011 03:54:37 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5570#comment-27113 yeah, part of it is inconsistent minute, and another part is because of kuester (which i didn't really wanna go into since we all know he suck) for his poor outing. the offensive scheme of the pistons just aren't that great with using gordon. the way gordon is use is purely as a spot up shooter in the corner and when you have no one who drive and kick, gordon is pretty useless in the offensive. while as a bulls, they used him as a spot up shooter, but they also allowed him to create on his own, which he isn't allow to do as a pistons. and im sure ill be able to come up with more excuses for bg, if i think some more but too lazy to think anymore already the only blame i put on gordon for his poor performance is that he pump fake way too much when someone passes him the ball in the corner, he needs to just shoot the damn ball. if it gets rejected, there's next time, and that would be better than any other shots the pistons could get yeah, part of it is inconsistent minute, and another part is because of kuester (which i didn’t really wanna go into since we all know he suck) for his poor outing. the offensive scheme of the pistons just aren’t that great with using gordon. the way gordon is use is purely as a spot up shooter in the corner and when you have no one who drive and kick, gordon is pretty useless in the offensive. while as a bulls, they used him as a spot up shooter, but they also allowed him to create on his own, which he isn’t allow to do as a pistons. and im sure ill be able to come up with more excuses for bg, if i think some more but too lazy to think anymore already

the only blame i put on gordon for his poor performance is that he pump fake way too much when someone passes him the ball in the corner, he needs to just shoot the damn ball. if it gets rejected, there’s next time, and that would be better than any other shots the pistons could get

]]> By: Tim http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/contextualizing-ben-gordons-slump/comment-page-1/#comment-27112 Tim Wed, 30 Mar 2011 03:00:59 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5570#comment-27112 Ok, let's just look at Ben Gordon's first six games this season, arguably his best stretch as a Piston. He averaged 7 of 13 shooting for 20 pts to go with less than 5 combined rebounds and assists, less than 1 combined blocks and steals, and 2.5 turnovers and 4 fouls per game. Those are good numbers but not great ones. They are maybe worth his $11M/yr or whatever. But still not for sure, just maybe. And that was his best stretch. If a player earns about what he makes in his very best six game stretch, he is way overpaid. period. Furthermore you gripe about his inconsistent minutes. And they did go down a little, but not horribly so at first. In his next 17 games, there was only one in which he logged fewer than 20 minutes and 3 in which he was over 30. He was getting very consistent about 27 mpg. Sure you could argue he deserves a bit more, but if a guy can't produce when he is consistently getting 27 minutes, that's a serious problem with that player--not with that coach or system or whatever. And in those 17 games, he averaged under 10 ppg. His other numbers weren't great either. And his play that didn't show up in the box score (defense, hustle, etc) was particularly bad. And that is why he didn't get consistent minutes thereafter. So my question for you is, how can you deny that Ben Gordon's poor production is not at least as much his fault as it is Kuester's or Dumars'? Do you really believe that a player who plays considerably below average when consistently receiving 27 mpg can be worth $11M/yr? I'm sure Gordon could be better if he was consistently getting 35 mpg. But if he can't produce in 27, that is a bigger problem than the fact that that is all he is getting. Ok, let’s just look at Ben Gordon’s first six games this season, arguably his best stretch as a Piston. He averaged 7 of 13 shooting for 20 pts to go with less than 5 combined rebounds and assists, less than 1 combined blocks and steals, and 2.5 turnovers and 4 fouls per game. Those are good numbers but not great ones. They are maybe worth his $11M/yr or whatever. But still not for sure, just maybe. And that was his best stretch. If a player earns about what he makes in his very best six game stretch, he is way overpaid. period.
Furthermore you gripe about his inconsistent minutes. And they did go down a little, but not horribly so at first. In his next 17 games, there was only one in which he logged fewer than 20 minutes and 3 in which he was over 30. He was getting very consistent about 27 mpg. Sure you could argue he deserves a bit more, but if a guy can’t produce when he is consistently getting 27 minutes, that’s a serious problem with that player–not with that coach or system or whatever.
And in those 17 games, he averaged under 10 ppg. His other numbers weren’t great either. And his play that didn’t show up in the box score (defense, hustle, etc) was particularly bad. And that is why he didn’t get consistent minutes thereafter.
So my question for you is, how can you deny that Ben Gordon’s poor production is not at least as much his fault as it is Kuester’s or Dumars’? Do you really believe that a player who plays considerably below average when consistently receiving 27 mpg can be worth $11M/yr?
I’m sure Gordon could be better if he was consistently getting 35 mpg. But if he can’t produce in 27, that is a bigger problem than the fact that that is all he is getting.

]]> By: neutes http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/contextualizing-ben-gordons-slump/comment-page-1/#comment-27110 neutes Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:13:51 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5570#comment-27110 Geoff gets it. Geoff gets it.

]]> By: neutes http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/contextualizing-ben-gordons-slump/comment-page-1/#comment-27109 neutes Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:12:31 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5570#comment-27109 Gordon can never be worth his money. Gordon can never be worth his money.

]]> By: bg8 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/contextualizing-ben-gordons-slump/comment-page-1/#comment-27108 bg8 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:34:07 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5570#comment-27108 gordon's exptectation did not go down because of his poor play, but because of the coach. if you go way back to the first 6 games of the season, gordon averaged 32min and 20pts per game, after that, he didn't play 30min in a game for another month. and thats started this erractic, downward spiral of gordon's play, which leads to what we have now and yeah, you're right, so don't think gordon is overpaid at all. he would be worth his money if they just allow him to play gordon’s exptectation did not go down because of his poor play, but because of the coach. if you go way back to the first 6 games of the season, gordon averaged 32min and 20pts per game, after that, he didn’t play 30min in a game for another month. and thats started this erractic, downward spiral of gordon’s play, which leads to what we have now

and yeah, you’re right, so don’t think gordon is overpaid at all. he would be worth his money if they just allow him to play

]]> By: Geoff http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/contextualizing-ben-gordons-slump/comment-page-1/#comment-27106 Geoff Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:01:25 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5570#comment-27106 You BG's defenders are nuts. He's not playing at a level he's capable of, and it is his fault. Everyone else seems productive more nights than not. The Coach has had a problem with him, thinks he's not aggressive enough an not looking for shots. That hurts a team, not helps. He's not a creator, defender, so ofcourse he needs to score. He cant. For whatever reason his height seems to be causing severe issues for him for the first time in his career. And he never attacks the basket. You BG’s defenders are nuts.

He’s not playing at a level he’s capable of, and it is his fault. Everyone else seems productive more nights than not.

The Coach has had a problem with him, thinks he’s not aggressive enough an not looking for shots. That hurts a team, not helps. He’s not a creator, defender, so ofcourse he needs to score. He cant. For whatever reason his height seems to be causing severe issues for him for the first time in his career. And he never attacks the basket.

]]> By: The Point Forward » Posts Court Vision: Tensions rise in Kings talks « http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/contextualizing-ben-gordons-slump/comment-page-1/#comment-27104 The Point Forward » Posts Court Vision: Tensions rise in Kings talks « Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:09:12 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5570#comment-27104 [...] The Ben Gordon signing has been a disaster for the Pistons, and Gordon has never played worse than he’s playing right [...] [...] The Ben Gordon signing has been a disaster for the Pistons, and Gordon has never played worse than he’s playing right [...]

]]> By: Jeremy http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/contextualizing-ben-gordons-slump/comment-page-1/#comment-27103 Jeremy Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:01:33 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5570#comment-27103 I think the real problem is that BG hasn't stepped up in other areas outside of scoring.   During his career with the Bulls, Gordon was consistently a primary option. With the Pistons, he never really has been. I don't mind that he isn't scoring like he did as a Bull, the Pistons have plenty of scorers. But we could really use him to help out in other areas. Remember Rip's "I'm-gonna-get-assists" year? If BG could have been a reliable distributor for us this year, people would be all over him. If he defended hard and well on every possession it would be the same. Gordon was always a scorer. The Pistons didn't need that, and he hasn't really provided it, but he's showing himself to be truly one dimensional by not helping out in areas that the Pistons do have need.   I do think it is to his credit that his attitude hasn't been a problem this year, as have so many others'. But $11 million ought to buy you more than a good guy. There are plenty of ways to contribute on this team besides for scoring, and that's what BG has to think about if he wants to actually earn that paycheck. I think the real problem is that BG hasn’t stepped up in other areas outside of scoring.
 
During his career with the Bulls, Gordon was consistently a primary option. With the Pistons, he never really has been. I don’t mind that he isn’t scoring like he did as a Bull, the Pistons have plenty of scorers. But we could really use him to help out in other areas. Remember Rip’s “I’m-gonna-get-assists” year? If BG could have been a reliable distributor for us this year, people would be all over him. If he defended hard and well on every possession it would be the same. Gordon was always a scorer. The Pistons didn’t need that, and he hasn’t really provided it, but he’s showing himself to be truly one dimensional by not helping out in areas that the Pistons do have need.
 
I do think it is to his credit that his attitude hasn’t been a problem this year, as have so many others’. But $11 million ought to buy you more than a good guy. There are plenty of ways to contribute on this team besides for scoring, and that’s what BG has to think about if he wants to actually earn that paycheck.

]]> By: swish22 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/03/contextualizing-ben-gordons-slump/comment-page-1/#comment-27102 swish22 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:52:40 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=5570#comment-27102 One thing is for sure.  NOBODY on this team has been more professional during his struggles and the Pistons struggles than Ben Gordon!  I didn't care for the signing when we made it but I've  grown to like Ben for his team first attitude.  I haven't seen every game this year, but anytime I've heard Ben talk or have  seen him leaving the floor for the bench hes a true professional! Hes now one of my favorites on this team and can still be an integral part of the Pistons future! We need a true point guard to maximize his shooting obviously!  He can still shoot the lights out and he does try defensively even though we know he has shortcomings there!   He's just a pure shooter who always tries his best!~  He can still be our Vinnie Johnson coming off the bench at the least! One thing is for sure.  NOBODY on this team has been more professional during his struggles and the Pistons struggles than Ben Gordon!  I didn’t care for the signing when we made it but I’ve  grown to like Ben for his team first attitude.  I haven’t seen every game this year, but anytime I’ve heard Ben talk or have  seen him leaving the floor for the bench hes a true professional!
Hes now one of my favorites on this team and can still be an integral part of the Pistons future!
We need a true point guard to maximize his shooting obviously!  He can still shoot the lights out and he does try defensively even though we know he has shortcomings there!   He’s just a pure shooter who always tries his best!~  He can still be our Vinnie Johnson coming off the bench at the least!

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