↓ Login/Logout ↓
Schedule/Results
↓ Roster ↓
Salaries
↓ Archives ↓
↓ About ↓

Would the Mavericks and Celtics invest in the present to facilitate the Pistons trading Richard Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince?

This is trade-deadline week, so each day PistonPowered will bring you a trade-idea post. We’ll try to keep some parameters in mind — a realistic idea of the value of Pistons’ players to other teams, cost and the fact that the Pistons most likely can’t add short or long term salary with the team’s sale pending — and we fully encourage you to present your ideas in the comments.

Trade

Pistons trade:

Pistons receive:

  • Caron Butler
  • DeShawn Stevenson
  • Jermaine O’Neal

Mavericks trade:

  • Caron Butler
  • DeShawn Stevenson
  • Jermaine O’Neal

Mavericks receive:

Celtics trade:

  • Jermaine O’Neal

Celtics receive:

  • Shawn Marion

Salaries

Data from ShamSports.com

Pistons trade:

Player 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14
Richard Hamilton $12,500,000 $12,500,000 $12,500,000 $0
Tayshaun Prince $11,148,760 $0 $0 $0
Chris Wilcox $3,000,000 $0 $0 $0
Total $26,648,760 $12,500,000 $12,500,000 $0

Pistons receive:

Player 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14
Caron Butler $10,561,960 $0 $0 $0
DeShawn Stevenson $4,151,786 $0 $0 $0
Jermaine O’Neal $5,765,000 $6,226,200 $0 $0
Total $20,478,746 $6,226,200 $0 $0

Mavericks trade:

Player 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14
Caron Butler $10,561,960 $0 $0 $0
Shawn Marion $7,055,500 $7,725,932 $8,396,364 $9,066,796
DeShawn Stevenson $4,151,786 $0 $0 $0
Total $21,769,246 $7,725,932 $8,396,364 $9,066,796

Mavericks receive:

Player 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14
Richard Hamilton $12,500,000 $12,500,000 $12,500,000 $0
Tayshaun Prince $11,148,760 $0 $0 $0
Chris Wilcox $3,000,000 $0 $0 $0
Total $26,648,760 $12,500,000 $12,500,000 $0

Celtics trade:

Player 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14
Jermaine O’Neal $5,765,000 $6,226,200 $0 $0
Total $5,765,000 $6,226,200 $0 $0

Celtics receive:

Player 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14
Shawn Marion $7,055,500 $7,725,932 $8,396,364 $9,066,796
Total $7,055,500 $7,725,932 $8,396,364 $9,066,796
  • Early-termination option
  • Partially guaranteed

Pistons’ perspective

The Pistons obviously want to trade Richard Hamilton, and after Tayshaun Prince’s comments yesterday, they might want to trade him, too. This trade offers a fresh start, which the Pistons definitely need.

Ideally, the Pistons could acquire building-block assets while trading two of their better players of yesteryear, but that might be asking for too much. Clearing a couple malcontents from the roster, lowering next year’s payroll by $6,273,800 and acquiring the to-be-expiring contract of a veteran big man could be Detroit’s best-case scenario.

I think the Mavericks like Hamilton, but they don’t want to his contract (who does?). I think the Mavericks like Prince, and they’d take take him and his expiring contract in a heartbeat. Would getting Prince be enough to entice to Dallas to take Hamilton? Maybe. If not, I don’t see many other ways to lose Hamilton and his heavy contract.

The trade works without Chris Wilcox, whom the Pistons probably wouldn’t mind keeping or trading separately. But because the Mavericks play Shawn Marion a bit at power forward, which Prince has objected to doing in the past, Detroit would probably have to include Wilcox.

The Pistons could waive Butler and Stevenson, all but freeing them to re-sign with the Mavericks (unless a team claims them on waivers, which, given their salaries, appears unlikely). That move would likely save Karen Davidson a little extra money, and Detroit wants Butler and Stevenson only for their expiring contracts, anyway.

Once the team is sold and the Pistons can take long-term salary, Jermaine O’Neal’s expiring contract could help fetch a valuable piece this summer.

Mavericks’ perspective

Rob Mahoney of The Two Man Game:

This isn’t a bad trade for the Mavs by an means, and it would likely make them a better team in the short-term. That said, Dallas is currently on the cusp of contending, and has a lot to lose. Mark Cuban and Donnie Nelson have never been ones to shy away from big deals if they felt their team couldn’t cut it as is, but they seem genuinely confident that the Mavs — as assembled — can get it done. So even if this deal would be a technical improvement, it’s still rather unlikely from the Mavs’ perspective.

Regardless, there are some very interesting pieces here. Supposing that DeShawn Stevenson is waived and eventually finds his way back to the Mavs, Dallas loses very little. Trading Shawn Marion for Tayshaun Prince is essentially a lateral move, but one that gives the Mavs a better three-point shooter and likely saves the Mavs money over the long-term.

Those savings are hedged, of course, by the two full years remaining on Richard Hamilton’s deal. Cuban may be reluctant to add Hamilton if he, Donnie Nelson, and Rick Carlisle don’t view this trade as a significant upgrade. Given the money the Mavs committed to Dirk Nowitzki and Brendan Haywood last summer (in addition to the run they plan to make at re-signing Tyson Chandler), Cuban will be even more reluctant than usual to take on a contract like Hamilton’s. That’s not a deal-breaker in itself, but it’s another small red flag.

That said, the Mavs also would pick up a competent role player in Wilcox for relatively cheap while getting a substantial discount on Stevenson’s contract (should he sign with Dallas after being waived). Wilcox could fill in some of the minutes behind Nowitzki at power forward that were normally taken by Marion, and gives the Mavs an extra big to combat sizable contenders like the Lakers.

So essentially, Dallas would lose Shawn Marion and the right to re-sign Caron Butler in the off-season, and gain Richard Hamilton, Chris Wilcox, and a player comparable to Marion in Prince.

Hamilton is still a very useful player, and would look quite comfortable running around the baseline screens normally used to set up Jason Terry. Plus, having Jason Kidd orchestrating the offense and willing passers all around will only facilitate Hamilton’s scoring abilities.

There’s definitely enough here to make the Mavs think long and hard about completing this deal, but I’m just not sure it’s enough. Cuban, Nelson, and Carlisle like their team — any trade proposal that’s going to disrupt the established roster is going to have to knock their socks off, and this one doesn’t.
Plus, one last point to consider: Butler fits well in this Mavericks locker room, and he and his teammates genuinely seem to like each other. I don’t know that Dallas would shy away from trading him in general for chemistry reasons, but it’s worth noting that Butler is working very hard to rehab and return for the playoffs, and that fact isn’t lost on the Dallas brass.

I also sent Rob an alternate proposal. We agreed the Mavericks would probably rather keep Dominique Jones and take Chris Wilcox’s expiring deal than get Jermaine O’Neal. But the Mavericks showed interest in O’Neal this summer, so there’s a chance they’d prefer this alternate version. Rob breaks that down, too:

Dominique Jones wasn’t going to contribute in the immediate future anyway. Cuban may not be thrilled that the Mavs are trading away Jones – on whom Cuban spent $3 million to acquire on draft day — so quickly, but I don’t see Jones as the hang-up that would keep Dallas from making a deal like this one.

Jermaine O’Neal is pretty superfluous, honestly, but there’s nothing wrong with acquiring as many competent big men as possible in the hope that they might come in handy in a possible playoff series against the Lakers. If this deal were to go down, Dallas would have Chandler, Haywood, Ian Mahinmi, and Jermaine O’Neal as their center rotation, would could be the deepest set of 5s in the entire league.

Celtics’ perspective

Brendan Jackson of Celtics Hub:

Getting a strong perimeter defender and a solid rebounder for Jermaine O’Neal? Yes, please.

There is just one huge problem: this particular player, Shawn Marion, still has three years on his deal.

Danny Ainge has made it well known that he does not want any contracts that go beyond the 2012 season so the Celtics can go into full rebuild mode if necessary. Marion has a contract that would make him a Celtics for two years beyond that deadline. To make matters worse, he’ll be making over $9 million in the final year of his contract. If this were a month ago, I would have said this puts the definite kibosh on any deal for Marion. Now, with the indefinite nature of Marquis Daniels’ injury and the recent setback suffered by Delonte West, this deal deserves a second look.

18 Comments

  • Feb 22, 20113:18 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    feldman, i won’t shit on you for spinning your wheels. i just want to set you up a strongly as i possibly can that this team is going to look exactly like it does now for years and years and years to come. i never took this specific stance yet (go back and check if you want), but JOE MUST GO. he isn’t just killing this team; he’s making sure it stays dead for the foreseeable future.

  • Feb 22, 20113:28 pm
    by Jason

    Reply

    Well done, Dan. I think this is a trade proposal that makes sense for all parties, especially Detroit and Dallas. Boston may be reluctant to take on the long term deal, but as you noted, being faced with injuries currently could make that irrelevant, being they are a favorite in the East..
     
    I’d love to see this deal happen though, lets hope something happens soon!
     

    • Feb 22, 20114:13 pm
      by Laser

      Reply

      jason: look up pistons news right now on google. they want to keep tayshaun and stuckey and t-mac and gordon and charlie and daye, monroe and jerebko. EVERY INDICATION IN THE WORLD POINTS TO NO TRADE ACTIVITY WHATSOEVER. why do you people get your hopes up like this??????????

      • Feb 22, 20114:26 pm
        by Patrick Hayes

        Reply

        Man, what the hell? Do you expect that Dumars is going to say? “Everyone is in play.” Because GMs totally do that all the time. I mean, as much as four days ago, Denver’s leadership said, “we’re not trading Melo.”

        Just because Dumars has said he’s not dealing anyone doesn’t mean it’s true. In fact, it’s most assuredly not true. He’s covering his bases. If you shop a guy hard, and tell the world you’re shopping him hard, then can’t find a deal, you have to live with that dude on your roster the rest of the way. If that player listened to you put him on Front Street, he’s probably not going to be thrilled having to still play for you.

        Look at how the Hamilton situation played out. Very public, and when a deal didn’t happen, they were stuck with a guy who they clearly didn’t want and who clearly didn’t want to be here. It’s better from Dumars’ perspective, and any GM’s perspective, to keep quiet about his guys.

        Man, you’re really losing your shit lately. Trade rumor season is not for the weak stomached. Everyone lies. You can’t read into every single comment and act like it’s the end of the world. It’s all posturing.

        • Feb 22, 20114:57 pm
          by Jason

          Reply

          Well said, Patrick. I don’t even need to reply.. haha.
           
          While i of course also want to see something happen, you have to be realistic. There are alot of variables with the pending sale, etc. So you can’t just expect Dumars to be broadcasting to the world which guys are and are not available.
           
          For all we know, Dumars HAS been talking to every team in the league, with no luck.
           
          Not trying to defend Dumars, but im just being realistic. No one but Dumars, and his assistants REALLY know what’s going on, so speculation is just ridiculous.
           
          When I comment, Laser – it’s wishful thinking, wish I don’t think is a bad thing!

          • Feb 22, 20119:29 pm
            by Laser

            hey, time will tell. i feel like i’ve seen enough the past few years to know nothing’s happening. i’ll be thrilled to eat my words, but i think joe’s serious. tayshaun sure doesn’t think he’s getting traded. it would be one thing if joe said he wasn’t necessarily motivated to make a trade but might if the right one came along; coming out and saying he won’t trade tayshaun unless he’s BLOWN AWAY is another.
             
            i don’t think joe has it in him to wave the white flag on a season, no matter how objectively correct a move it would be. you’re right about me “losing it,” and i wish i was wrong… but i doubt it.

  • Feb 22, 20113:49 pm
    by David

    Reply

    I put something together this morning that I kind of like.
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4kdbyh2
    Hamilton, Prince and Stuckey for Butler, Terry and Beaubois.
    The Mavs probably don’t want to part with Jason Terry but I would at least take a hard look at this offer if I were them. They’d have a Kidd, Hamilton, Prince, Nowitzki, Chander starting 5 (nice veteran lineup for the playoffs) with Stuckey, Stevenson, Marion and Haywood (not bad defensively) off the bench.
    Instead of resigning Stuckey this offseason we take a look at Beaubois and really reset the clock with the young, young guys.

    • Feb 22, 20114:16 pm
      by Laser

      Reply

      yes. very smart idea. let’s come up with trade ideas that will never happen because the pistons are not executing any trades. let’s drive ourselves absolutely crazy hoping for something that we’ve been told in plain english is not happening.
       
      they ain’t trading anyone but rip, and they ain’t trading rip, so they ain’t trading nobody.
       
      as long as there are no insanely optimistic trade ideas in the comments to follow, this should be the last time i must explain this. you people are killing yourselves and you’re killing me. get used to this pistons team, because all indications– ALL OF THEM– is that it’s here to stay.

      • Feb 22, 20115:01 pm
        by Jason

        Reply

        Laser – I can usually agree with your rants, about Dumars signings, about the coaching miscues, about the ridiculousness of the Hamilton situation..
         
        BUT – you are now reaching borderline crazy mode.
         
        It’s one thing to be pessimistic, but you are crying about this like your life depends on it!
         
        I’s just a game, bro! I love my Pistons too, and it disgusts me to see them on the decline – BUT, i’m not going to let it “Drive me crazy”, as it’s obviously doing to you…
         
        There are lots of reasons to be optimistic, Stern recently said he believes that Gore will buy the Pistons.. Once this happens, SO MUCH COULD CHANGE!
         
        If nothing else, you keep beating a dead horse, and it’s becoming silly…
         
        Settle down, be hopeful, and please don’t pull any more hair out over this.. haha

        • Feb 22, 20119:34 pm
          by Laser

          Reply

          jason: if this team doesn’t make a move before thursday, we’re all going to be living a personal nightmare. you don’t seem to understand this. this is a make-or-break deadline. if it passes and the team is the same, we will be virtually DEVOID of assets with which to improve our fortunes. nobody’s going to give you a roster upgrade for any of the guys we have left under contract, besides perhaps stuckey, who we all know is here to stay.
           
          even if we could trade some of these guys, we won’t be able to get any value for them. nobody’s going to knock your socks off for gordon or villanueva, nobody’s likely to even take max or rip off your hands (since they can’t even hit the floor on this shitty team). so how do you get better? with high lottery picks? we need to take the guys who have value and are expiring anyways and flip them for something you can use going forward.
           
          i wish it didn’t drive me absolutely crazy but it does. i care about this team for some stupid reason, and it’s going straight to hell.

    • Feb 22, 20115:03 pm
      by Jason

      Reply

      I’d love Beaubois, would be an awesome addition to the young Pistons core.. They probably won’t move Terry though, that’s Cuban’s guy, it seems.

  • Feb 22, 20114:18 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    once and for all: WHAT WE “SHOULD” DO HAS ABSOLUTELY NO RELEVANCE WHATSOEVER TO WHAT JOE DUMARS, THE MAN WHO MAKES THESE DECISIONS, WILL ACTUALLY DO. what he will do is keep this team on a crash course to oblivion. when will this set into your blindly optimistic heads??

    • Feb 22, 20114:29 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Everyone remember: no moves will net at least one move for the PistonPowered comments section. No moves means the Allen Iverson of the comments section heads to Turkey.

      • Feb 22, 20119:37 pm
        by Laser

        Reply

        yeah man. the one guy who knows what this team needs to do and is passionate about it. good riddance to me. that will leave more space for people who know nothing about basketball or understands practical solutions to the team’s problems. good upgrade.

        • Feb 22, 201110:08 pm
          by Patrick Hayes

          Reply

          Haha. Way to not live up to the characterization. Sorry man. You are far from the only one in this comments section who knows basketball. You comment a lot, which is cool, but you’re not some basketball/truth-telling savant. You’re a ranter who occasionally makes a good point, occasionally says something funny and quite often drowns out the rest of the conversation.

  • [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Steven, PistonPowered Feed. PistonPowered Feed said: Would the Mavericks and Celtics invest in the present to facilitate the Pistons trading Richard Hamilton and Tay… http://bit.ly/i4zGBJ [...]

  • Feb 22, 20118:32 pm
    by bg8

    Reply

    i would just trade prince for butler straight up. pistons need to get rid of prince, do i think it’ll happen, probably not, but it should happen. as long as prince is on the team, they can’t play their best players. kuester will never go tmac, stuck, bg, for some reason prince always have to play, and prince is too big of a wuss to play the 4.

    • Feb 23, 20113:07 pm
      by Tim

      Reply

      There is no advantage to trading Prince for Butler straight up (except maybe a few more ping pong balls). But Prince for Butler and a draft pick, even the Mavs late first-rounder, even a few years down the road, would be beneficial. I’ve been rooting for that deal to get done ever since the playoffs became unattainable.

  • Leave a Reply

    Your Ad Here