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Trade Idea: Taking on smaller bad contracts to move Rip Hamilton

This is trade-deadline week, so each day PistonPowered will bring you a trade-idea post. We’ll try to keep some parameters in mind — a realistic idea of the value of Pistons’ players to other teams, cost and the fact that the Pistons most likely can’t add short or long term salary with the team’s sale pending — and we fully encourage you to present your ideas in the comments.

Trade

Pistons trade:

Pistons receive:

  • Vince Carter
  • Hakim Warrick
  • Gani Lawal

Mavericks trade:

  • Caron Butler

Mavericks receive:

Suns trade:

  • Vince Carter
  • Hakim Warrick
  • Gani Lawal

Suns receive:

Salaries

Data from ShamSports.com

Pistons trade:

Player 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14
Richard Hamilton $12,500,000 $12,500,000 $12,500,000 $0
Tayshaun Prince $11,148,760 $0 $0 $0
Tracy McGrady $854,389 $0 $0 $0
Total $24,503,149 $12,500,000 $12,500,000 $0

Pistons receive:

Player 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14
Vince Carter
$17,522,375 $18,300,000 $0 $0
Hakim Warrick $4,250,000 $4,250,000 $4,250,000 $4,250,000
Gani Lawal
$473,604 $788,872 $0 $0
Total $22,245,979 $23,338,872 $4,250,000 $4,250,000

Mavericks trade:

Player 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14
Caron Butler $10,561,960 $0 $0 $0
Total $21,769,246 $7,725,932 $8,396,364 $9,066,796

Mavericks receive:

Player 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14
Richard Hamilton $12,500,000 $12,500,000 $12,500,000 $0
Tracy McGrady $854,389 $0 $0 $0
Total $26,648,760 $12,500,000 $12,500,000 $0

Suns trade:

Player 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14
Vince Carter
$17,522,375 $18,300,000 $0 $0
Hakim Warrick $4,250,000 $4,250,000 $4,250,000 $4,250,000
Gani Lawal
$473,604 $788,872 $0 $0
Total $22,245,979 $23,338,872 $4,250,000 $4,250,000

Suns receive:

Player 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14
Tayshaun Prince $11,148,760 $0 $0 $0
Caron Butler $10,561,960 $0 $0 $0
Total $21,710,720 $0 $0 $0
  • Early-termination option
  • Partially guaranteed

Pistons’ perspective

The best way to be rid of Hamilton’s contract is to accept a bad contract in return, but by including Prince and McGrady and their expiring deals in a bigger trade, the Pistons might be able to come up with a trade like this one that nets them a bad contract that is smaller, thus easier to move, than Hamilton’s.

I just picked Warrick randomly. The Suns have several players signed long-term at that salary range that could be plugged in — Channing Frye, Jared Dudley, Josh Childress to name a few. The Pistons win by getting Carter’s contract, which isn’t fully guaranteed next year, so the Pistons would save quite a bit in the long run by getting out of Hamilton’s deal. Plus they pick up a player I like a lot in Lawal.

Suns’ perspective

What the Suns get is quite obvious — immediate financial relief. They don’t have to pay Carter’s buyout because they get two deals in Prince and Butler who expire after this season. Plus, they’re the only team that may have more of a glut of price, one-dimensional wing players than the Pistons, so moving one of them is a bonus for the ones who remain on the roster past this season.

Mavericks perspective

The Mavs have higher hopes than Hamilton, namely Devin Harris. But if they fail to get the sought after Harris? Getting Hamilton and McGrady while only giving up the injured Butler would be a nice consolation prize.

36 Comments

  • Feb 23, 201110:59 am
    by Cliff

    Reply

    Will never trade tracy away… He’s shown to be one of the bright spots of a sad and depressing season. Personally, he’s way too valuable to trade away at this point and we shouldn’t use him as trade bait.
    What are the chances of Rip + Maxiell/ CV + Wilcox for OJ Mayo + Randolph trade? It might be a stupid question but just want some expert insight in a trade such as this.

    • Feb 23, 201111:18 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Memphis won’t take on long-term salary if they trade Randolph. They need money to re-sign Marc Gasol in the offseason, and that trade would be significant long-term salary.

      Also, I think they could get more if they move Mayo and Randolph in separate deals.

      I agree the Pistons won’t trade McGrady, but I think they should. I believe there’s very little chance he’ll re-sign.

  • Feb 23, 201111:19 am
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    THREAD JACK:

    Deron Williams just traded to NJ for Harris, Favors and picks. So with Harris in Utah, that’s Dallas’s top priority off the market. Not sure Hamilton would be plan B for them, but hopefully they’d at least discuss it now.

    • Feb 23, 201112:40 pm
      by Jason

      Reply

      HOLY SHIT!! I can’t believe that trade just happened….

    • Feb 23, 20111:16 pm
      by Andrew

      Reply

      Think the Jazz would be interested in a Rip for Memo trade now that they have another big in Favors?

      • Feb 23, 20111:29 pm
        by Jason

        Reply

        Memo’s old.. Favors is a PF – That makes Millsap expandable.. I’d rather take Millsap any day of the week..

  • Feb 23, 201111:22 am
    by BIG MARV

    Reply

    Hey pat I think they should at least consider it now because rip will look good with williams in NJ with the kind of offense he plays. I think rip is screaming at joe to trade him now

    • Feb 23, 201111:59 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      NJ was never that interested in Rip. Rip and Melo share the same agent, and that agent was trying to push Hamilton on the Nets as a way for them to encourage Anthony to accept a trade there and sign an extension.

      Now, I would guess NJ has zero interest in Hamilton’s contract. And even if they did, they traded the one asset the Pistons were interested in, Troy Murphy’s expiring contract, to Golden State in a separate trade.

  • Feb 23, 201111:25 am
    by Rodman4Life

    Reply

    I like McGrady, and wouldn’t mind keeping him, but what is this obsession with him?  He’s older, not great defensively, and his motivations won’t be closely tied to Detroit as long as their miserable.  He is one of our only valuable movable pieces, and with him we have not been able to be any better than a rotten team (not all his fault).  Do we want his fancy name or do we want results.  I mean really!!

    • Feb 23, 201111:49 am
      by Laser

      Reply

      let’s not ignore that he has every right to play wherever he will almost certainly get a better offer elsewhere.

  • Feb 23, 201111:26 am
    by Rodman4Life

    Reply

    “they’re”

  • Feb 23, 201111:36 am
    by Alex

    Reply

    How the heck did Detroit not get in on the Deron Williams talk.  I would trade our whole team for him.  He instantly makes any team a 50 win team just like Chauncey.  I’m sure a package of Stuckey, Daye, Monroe, Prince for Deron and CJ Miles would entice them more than NJ’s.  This is bullshit. Joe is slacking and needs to be out.

    • Feb 23, 201111:50 am
      by Laser

      Reply

      you’re right about joe, but i hate your trade. i’m not sure utah would like it more, and i’m not sure i’d execute it in the first place. would deron williams even stay here?

    • Feb 23, 201111:55 am
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      Williams, much like Anthony, was trying to dictate where he wanted to play. Reports were he planned to play out his contract and sign with NY in 2012. The Nets are clearly hoping he buys into their Brooklyn plan and will extend with them. They’re close enough to NY that trading for him might not just be a one season rental. If Detroit gave up every young asset they had to get him, there’s zero chance he would re-sign here after next season.

  • Feb 23, 201111:57 am
    by Eric

    Reply

    On the trade rumors, the Clippers are lookng for a small forward, why not try and get Chris Kaman, the Pistons need a center to go wth Monroe.  The Piston have plenty f players that can play the three?

    Other than that, Pistons should hope Demarcus Cousins continues to push around the Kings and frustrates them, how would a Cousins, Monroe combo downlow.

    • Feb 23, 201112:03 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I certainly think the Clips would move Kaman for an expiring if they could.

      The problems for the Pistons:

      - trading Prince for him would require them to take on long-term salary, something all reports indicate ownership won’t let Joe Dumars do right now.

      - Kaman is beyond an injury risk. He’s missed 19 games or more in four of his eight seasons in the league. He’s only played in 12 games this season. He’s going to be 30 years old next season. He’s expensive.

      A healthy Kaman is certainly a very good player. But unfortunately, there’s an equally likely chance the Pistons would be giving up an expiring deal for a guy who might sit more than he plays.

      • Feb 23, 201112:44 pm
        by Jason

        Reply

        Not only that, but Kaman isn’t really a good fit for the Pistons anymore. I used to want to make a move for him, but he plays similarly to Monroe, and i’d rather have a defensive stopper/Rebounder to compliment Monroe.. That’s surely not Kaman’s game…

  • Feb 23, 201112:22 pm
    by BIG MARV

    Reply

    So Pat I think what you trying to say is that the only way rip leaves detroit is through a buyout, which I see happening but I hope the pistons get some kind of deal that rip pays back some of the money. It sounds like another year with out any moves but the difference is this year you will be losing a player instead of adding one.

    • Feb 23, 20111:08 pm
      by Laser

      Reply

      option one: effectively pay ben gordon $36.650 million dollars over the next two seasons to have ben gordon here (his salary plus rip’s buy-out, if we pay half his salary).
       
      option two: pay rip hamilton $25.3 million dollars to finish out his contract. trade ben gordon for cap space and use that money (along with the space tayshaun’s expiring contract creates) to sign a guy like zach randolph. or just plain make room for rip to play by moving either of our other shooting guards. he either establishes some value and can be traded at next year’s deadline when he’s got just a year left, or “suffer” through one more year of his slightly-below-gordon-and-stuckey level of production for just one more season and trade him when he’s expiring and, thus, has value.
       
      why is a buy-out even being discussed?

  • Feb 23, 201112:36 pm
    by Alex

    Reply

    Why would we need a 3 team trade to trade with Dallas?  We should just give them Rip and Tmac str8 up for Caron butler.  I think that is the most likely scenario if we do make a trade.  If we don’t make a trade, get ready for another 2 years of 30 win basketball.

    • Feb 23, 201112:47 pm
      by Laser

      Reply

      +1
       
      this is SHEER INSANITY.

  • Feb 23, 201112:45 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    here’s a trade idea, since i’m “fully encouraged” and may be a distant, pleasant memory to all my friends here by tomorrow. bear with me, this one’s a bit involved…
     
    PHASE ONE: pistons stay pat this season for no reason whatsoever. god knows how anyone could ever justify it or how the apologists will re-write history, but let’s just imagine we live in a topsy-turvy world where this is 100% sure to happen. joe wants to bring back everyone except chris wilcox and maybe dajaun summers (who will go on to be a good cheap player somewhere, and probably outproduce villanueva next season).
     
    PHASE TWO: mcgrady signs with a team that actually has something going for it besides perpetual dysfunction and a staunch refusal to adjust to anything. on a completely hopeless, rebuilding team that’s no closer to being good than the day we started rebuilding, we let one of the best producers in the league for his salary walk for nothing whatsoever. our low-risk, high-reward ONLY signing from last summer becomes “low risk, NO reward whatsoever, even when we could have cashed out significantly.” joe pretends like it wasn’t foreseeable and throws his hands in the air. “there’s literally nothing i could have done differently,” thinks and says joe. his apologists make excuses.
     
    PHASE THREE: joe faces some tough decisions on rodney stuckey and tayshaun prince (let’s assume they’re both restricted, because i’m not committed enough to this to look it up. if tayshaun’s unrestricted, he walks. period. and we all know that). two separate teams who actually have plans and goals and don’t commit to failed rebuilding projects present these guys offer sheets. these offer sheets are rich, because the teams who want these guys actually have significant roles for them to play and don’t have five other guys under contract who play their position and will fight them for minutes year after year after year ad infinitum. in other words, these teams can actually afford to commit a significant piece of their cap to a small forward and a shooting guard respectively. joe either (A) lets tayshaun walk, because the price was too high and he’s getting up there in age. so we’ve effectively lost the last remaining asset from our heyday for absolutely nothing in a completely foreseeable and avoidable situation. joe throws his hands in the air, because he can’t possibly imagine what he could have done differently. the apologists agree. in the alternative, we have option (B) where joe overpays tayshaun. we have another rip situation where he his replacements are younger and cheaper, only this time both of them are already on the team and ready to be major contributors. and as an added bonus, unlike when rip inked his extension, tayshaun is already disgruntled before he’s even offered the contract in the first place. he becomes another albatross, and buying out several years of his contract becomes a seriously debated issue. joe also throws up his hands in this scenario. cue apologists. rodney stuckey he signs to absolutely any sum of money you can imagine. this one is a no-brainer. it also proves to be a horrendous mistake. hands in the air. apologists.
     
    and so on and so on. and mot of the people reading this will still be fans of this mess and watch it all happen and complain about it. lather, rinse, repeat. you heard it here first, folks. the only thing i’ll miss more than all of you is being right about one thing in absolute perpetuity for once in my life when everyone else was too busy with rose colored glasses to see what was going on. i hesitate to pat myself on the back for being 100% right about this team so far, because it all seemed rather obvious to me. but i guess i must be some kind of basketball genius or something. go figure.

    • Feb 23, 20111:11 pm
      by Jason

      Reply

      Laser, with how often you post here – I would think you would know that Tayshaun is an unrestricted Free Agent, and surely will NOT be a Piston next year. In fact, Dumars has made a point to say that he WANTS to resign Stuck and T-Mac, but no mention of Tay.. (That i’ve seen)
       
      Even if Dumars did WANT to, there is NO WAY Tay comes back to this team.. Period.

      • Feb 23, 20112:55 pm
        by Dave

        Reply

        You must not have FSD.  Last night George Blaha was excited like a little kid talking about Joe D. announcing his intentions to resign Tayshaun Prince

        • Feb 23, 20115:32 pm
          by Jason

          Reply

          There is NO WAY Tayshaun will be a Piston next season, Dave. He is fed up with this team, and there is no reason he will sign a new contract..
           
          As i said, I hadn’t heard that Dumars has had any intention of resigning him, at least compared to how vocal he’s been about Stuck and T-Mac..
           
          BUT, again Dumars has no say in what Tayshaun decides to do.. And believe me, it won’t be to resign with the Pistons…

      • Feb 23, 20113:15 pm
        by Laser

        Reply

        for the record, jason, i think the first post i ever made here made it clear that i had one foot out the door on this bullshit team, and that i was a goner if this team didn’t make a move by the deadline. my track record has proven i’m at least as astute and informed as anyone here, but there would be no reason to concern myself with anything relating to the team come february 25.

  • Feb 23, 20111:16 pm
    by Jason

    Reply

    @ Patrick -
     
    What are you thoughts now on what the Jazz will do moving forward? Will they make another move?
    They have ALOT of Forwards on that team now, after getting Favors. Any chance they might look to trade Kirilenko’s expiring to fill some positions of more need? Their only REAL option at SG is Raja Bell.. Good role player, but not going to knock anyone’s socks off.
     
    Any chance they may have interest in Rip/Stuck possibly? Or even Rip/Tay for Kirilenko and Fesenko, or another throw in?
     
    I think this opens up some options for a team like the Pistons, but then again – they could be happy to stay put and let Kirilenko’s contract come off the books..
     
    Should be an interesting couple of days..

    • Feb 23, 20111:20 pm
      by Jason

      Reply

      Or hell, even Millsap may be a viable option for the Pistons to consider at this point.. I imagine you don’t trade away Williams for Favors, if you don’t intend on making Favors your go to guy at the position..
       
      I’d love to see Millsap in a Pistons uniform…

    • Feb 23, 20111:23 pm
      by Patrick Hayes

      Reply

      I would guess they’d be open to moving Jefferson, who hasn’t really fit, or Okur, who is expensive, older and injury prone. Milsap is locked up well below market for his production, so I’d say there’s little chance they’d move him.

      • Feb 23, 20112:01 pm
        by Jason

        Reply

        I’d take Jefferson too! Not too big on Okur anymore, but I guess he’d be a better way to spend Rip’s money then having him sit on the bench, or the buyout talk..
         
        I think they are one of the better trade partners for the Pistons though, that’s for sure.

  • Feb 23, 20111:47 pm
    by jgk281

    Reply

    I dont get the not taking salary back thing anymore. If Gores is on the verge of buying the team, and Joe has a chance to land him a great player, couldnt he sign off on the deal now?

  • Feb 23, 20112:16 pm
    by Trav

    Reply

    I think soon, they might think about trading Gordon instead of Rip.  Rip is older, but he is better than BG Defensively and about the same production wise on offense.  BG would be much easier to move and probably bring back more value.

  • Feb 23, 20113:02 pm
    by Eric

    Reply

    Rumors on ESPN have Portland putting Greg Oden on the trading block, a shot blocking big is what the Pistons could use.  What do you guys think it would take to swing a trade with Portland?

    • Feb 23, 20115:39 pm
      by Jason

      Reply

      I think it’s doubtful that Greg Oden will ever be able to play a full season healthy.. SO, i’d say no thanks on that one – UNLESS – they want RIP.. Which isn’t happening as long as Roy is on the roster..
       
      No way would I want to spend the money we will gain from Tay’s expiring on Oden.. He’s just been too fragile so far in his career.. It’s sad to say too, because I actually like the guy.. Is there a chance he can come back, and stay healthy enough to play some good basketball? Sure.. He’s young, and if around the right people, then it’s possible..
       
      BUT, it’s a HUGE risk to take for a team that is trying to rebuild. If we could get him for T-Mac money, then i’d be all for the risk.. Possibly if he’d be willing to sign a 3 year deal, that starts out at minimum money, with a team option for the 2nd/3rd years.. That would be about the only way i’d say pull the trigger..
       

  • Feb 23, 20116:53 pm
    by Eric

    Reply

    I thought Joe Dumars has said he wants Tayshaun to be here long term though, it doesn’t make sense though.

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